• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

LGBTQIA+ :)OT6(: We’re taking over -- first the alphabet, then the world!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Kinsei

Banned
We need to ask a couple seamen.

gallery_5_6_788.jpg
 

Kangi

Member
What's with this "being gay is actually a choice for people" sentiment being brought up by posters lately? Is this some new libertarian social stance that I wasn't made aware of? I swear, there's been like fifteen threads now that have ended up like this.
 

mantidor

Member
Is it? This thread can (inadvertently) be pretty toxic towards women from time to time.
We barely talk about vaginas here, seriously look at the first post of each page in this thread alone :p I agree it can be toxic, but it's hardly for the reasons you presented (that we often say vaginas are gross, it's not done often, at all).
 
What's with this "being gay is actually a choice for people" sentiment being brought up by posters lately? Is this some new libertarian social stance that I wasn't made aware of? I swear, there's been like fifteen threads now that have ended up like this.
Stupidity
 

RM8

Member
The guy on the other thread was funnier. "It's offensive to say it's not a choice". This current guy is kind of annoying - gays don't really want a relationship with other men, they just want easy gratification, straight men can pursue and enjoy giving oral because of "philias"... WTF.
 

Kangi

Member
And now there's conflation between fetishes and sexual orientation.

Somehow I feel like I've heard all of this before, but with a completely different set of people...
 

VegiHam

Member
Well it's not a choice in the conventional way. It's not something that you sit through and decide upon.... "okay so should I like men or women, both or none?"

All I'm saying is that we're all capable of same-sex/opposite-sex attraction but not all of us will.

I think Bisexuals/Pansexuals would be evidence for this claim.
I get what you're saying, and it makes sense but it's the 'not all of us will' bit I'm struggling with. Why? What causes same sex attraction to activate in some people and not others?
 

Symphonia

Banned
I wouldn't say being bisexual was a choice. I didn't wake up one day and decide to like boys and girls. For as long as I can remember, I have been attracted to both sexes. It's not even a case of liking one more than the other, I like both equally. I find it to be extremely rude and ignorant to say sexuality is a choice. It really, really grinds my gears.
 

Golnei

Member
The creepy guy from Wind Waker?

The literary mastermind.

51L6CDPLUBL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX324_SY324_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg
51U3ySiJiAL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX324_SY324_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg
519EWgYTUIL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-v3-big,TopRight,0,-55_SX324_SY324_PIkin4,BottomRight,1,22_AA300_SH20_OU02_.jpg


And now there's conflation between fetishes and sexual orientation.

Somehow I feel like I've heard all of this before, but with a completely different set of people...

Even among people who believe themselves to be tolerant, the belief that all non-heterosexual orientations exist only as fetishes; or are inherently more sexual than the alternative, is depressingly persistent. It's frustrating to see someone agree that orientation/gender doesn't come down to choice, yet still pull the 'think of the children' card for including non-heterosexual characters in mainstream media, or treat any explicit acknowledgment of their existence as ramming other people's sex lives down their throats.
 
What's with this "being gay is actually a choice for people" sentiment being brought up by posters lately? Is this some new libertarian social stance that I wasn't made aware of? I swear, there's been like fifteen threads now that have ended up like this.

Its nothing new at all. Pretty old school homophobia there.. and one person who seemingly isn't aware that bisexual people exist.
 

Kevyt

Member
I get what you're saying, and it makes sense but it's the 'not all of us will' bit I'm struggling with. Why? What causes same sex attraction to activate in some people and not others?

I would say epigenetics. But I'm no expert, just a hobo. This is all out of speculation. ;_;
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Brakke seems to think everyone is fluidly bi.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I don't think he's homophobic, just delusional.
 

Kevyt

Member
I don't think he's homophobic, just delusional.

Why would he be homophobic or delusional? He actually presents a really good argument. He isn't the first though, I've read a theory similar to what he is saying. It's somewhat convincing.
 
Why would he be homophobic or delusional? He actually presents a really good argument. He isn't the first though, I've read a theory similar to what he is saying. It's somewhat convincing.

So basically people aren't wrong when they tell their struggling gay teens that they are just confused and haven't found the right member of the opposite sex yet?

I guess I don't shed a tear for any gay people who are killed in Uganda or elsewhere. Since they are literally choosing to be gay, and could simply just search harder for an opposite sex partner.
 

Kevyt

Member
So basically people aren't wrong when they tell their struggling gay teens that they are just confused and haven't found the right member of the opposite sex yet?

I guess I don't shed a tear for any gay people who are killed in Uganda or elsewhere. Since they are literally choosing to be gay, and could simply just search harder for an opposite sex partner.

That's a straw-man. Also, whatt does that have anything to do with sexuality being fluid rather than fixed? Like I said it's not like one sits through and ponders "should I be gay, bi or straight?" - it doesn't work like that.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
"Gayness is a choice" is a running theme among conservative anti-gay propaganda. I don't think I really need to substantiate this?

It's delusional because in our world, it's already an uphill climb getting people to accept gays and bi's. What do you think is going to happen if you stood up and shouted: "Alright, maybe we're not intrinsically gay, but rather that we are all potentially gay."

Keep in mind that you're speaking to a populace who is convinced gays being married will threaten the fabric of society. And this only applies to countries where it's not a crime to be gay and you won't be jailed our hung for it.

It's so naive a viewpoint it doesn't merit any kind of consideration.
 

KmA

Member
So basically people aren't wrong when they tell their struggling gay teens that they are just confused and haven't found the right member of the opposite sex yet?

I guess I don't shed a tear for any gay people who are killed in Uganda or elsewhere. Since they are literally choosing to be gay, and could simply just search harder for an opposite sex partner.

What I've heard a lot of people say is that even if being LGBT was a choice (which it is not), the right to do so shouldn't be infringed upon regardless. I agree with the sentiment, but it's not the reality of the situation obviously.
 
That's a straw-man. Also, whatt does that have anything to do with sexuality being fluid rather than fixed? Like I said it's not like one sits through and ponders "should I be gay, bi or straight?" - it doesn't work like that.

It's the logical conclusion, not a straw man. People literally wouldn't be wrong to state that those who think they are exclusively gay are simply just confused and haven't met the right person yet.

If being gay is a choice then I have no reason to criticize places like Uganda, other than that we consider secular idealogies as being more valid than religious ones. But there's really nothing that makes one objectively better than the other. And if being gay is a choice I don't have a problem with religious ideaoogies that seek to punish or discourage it.

What I've heard a lot of people say is that even if being LGBT was a choice (which it is not), the right to do so shouldn't be infringed upon regardless. I agree with the sentiment, but it's not the reality of the situation obviously.

Which is only a good argument if you think that secular idealogies based around consequentialism are the only valid ones.
 

Kevyt

Member
"Gayness is a choice" is a running theme among conservative anti-gay propaganda. I don't think I really need to substantiate this?

It's delusional because in our world, it's already an uphill climb getting people to accept gays and bi's. What do you think is going to happen if you stood up and shouted: "Alright, maybe we're not intrinsically gay, but rather that we are all potential gay."

Keep in mind that you're speaking to a populace who is convinced gays being married will threaten the fabric of society. And this only applies to countries where it's not a crime to be gay and you won't be jailed our hung for it.

It's so naive a viewpoint it doesn't merit any kind of consideration.

Yes, it's a running theme. But fluid sexuality != choice. I don't know how to explain this any better or how to make myself more clear.

It's the logical conclusion, not a straw man. People literally wouldn't be wrong to state that those who think they are exclusively gay are simply just confused and haven't met the right person yet.

If being gay is a choice then I have no reason to criticize places like Uganda, other than that we consider secular idealogies as being more valid than religious ones. But there's really nothing that makes one objectively better than the other. And if being gay is a choice I don't have a problem with religious ideaoogies that seek to punish or discourage it.

Again, that's not what the argument is about. No one is reaching the conclusion that being gay is a choice.
 
Again, that's not what the argument is about. No one is reaching the conclusion that being gay is a choice.

Sexuality is fluid. So it isn't that I am exclusively gay. I just haven't met the right women yet. Perhaps if I searched harder I could find a woman I find sexually appealing. By not putting effort into that I am essentially choosing to be gay.

Kinsey scale is fucking bullshit, and I wish its cult fanatics would stop shoving it down all of humanity's fucking throat. No, sorry. The world isn't a Clamp anime where everyone is fucking omnisexual.
 

Symphonia

Banned
I woke up today and you know what? I like dick more than pussy. I'll probably change my mind tomorrow, though. As for Friday, who knows? I might choose something different altogether. It's my choice, after all.
 
I woke up today and you know what? I like dick more than pussy. I'll probably change my mind tomorrow, though. As for Friday, who knows? I might choose something different altogether. It's my choice, after all.

Or perhaps you don't choose it, but you have no control over it and it can shift at random like a raging fluid river. Sounds like dedicated relationships would just be impossible.

Coincidentally none of you can say you aren't into animals. Sexuality is fluid. Have you met all the animals in the world to say for sure you wouldn't be attracted to a dog? Didn't think so. How come there isn't a Kinsey species scale?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Yes, it's a running theme. But fluid sexuality != choice. I don't know how to explain this any better or how to make it clear.
Why does it matter? Honestly, tell me what benefit this course of thought, if it's even at all substantiated by medical studies, has for LGBT rights.

As I said to braxxe, this is fun to think about idly but it has no practical value at all.

He told me, without any irony in his eords, that he thinks getting people to think about sexuality as totally fluid can lead to a better society for everyone.

You know what this reminds me of? Hippies, and communist activists; people who believe that if we just try really hard and think positive thoughts, we can create an ideal egalitarian society.
 

Symphonia

Banned
Or perhaps you don't choose it, but you have no control over it and it can shift at random like a raging fluid river. Sounds like dedicated relationships would just be impossible.

Coincidentally none of you can say you aren't into animals. Sexuality is fluid. Have you met all the animals in the world to say for sure you wouldn't be attracted to a dog? Didn't think so. How come there isn't a Kinsey species scale?
The sarcasm in my post was lost on you. I know full well sexuality is not a choice. In fact, I made a post earlier about it. You don't just wake up and decide you like dick or pusssy or, in my case, both. I have always been attracted to both. It just took a while for me to realise what label my sexuality fell under.
 
Yes, it's a running theme. But fluid sexuality != choice. I don't know how to explain this any better or how to make myself more clear.



Again, that's not what the argument is about. No one is reaching the conclusion that being gay is a choice.
But that's not practical in real life though.
 
The sarcasm in my post was lost on you. I know full well sexuality is not a choice. In fact, I made a post earlier about it. You don't just wake up and decide you like dick or pusssy or, in my case, both. I have always been attracted to both. It just took a while for me to realise what label my sexuality fell under.

It wasn't lost to me. I was adding on to it with an equally sarcastic post.
 

Kevyt

Member
Sexuality is fluid. So it isn't that I am exclusively gay. I just haven't met the right women yet. Perhaps if I searched harder I could find a woman I find sexually appealing. By not putting effort into that I am essentially choosing to be gay.

Kinsey scale is fucking bullshit, and I wish its cult fanatics would stop shoving it down all of humanity's fucking throat. No, sorry. The world isn't a Clamp anime where everyone is fucking omnisexual.

I am done discussing this. We won't get anywhere. Let's agree to disagree shall we?

You know what this reminds me of? Hippies, and communist activists; people who believe that if we just try really hard and think positive thoughts, we can create an ideal egalitarian society.

Well... maybe there's a pattern here.

But that's not practical in real life though.

Okay.

---

I'm glad to know I'm delusional (y).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom