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LGBTQIA+ | OT7 | ~First comes love, then comes marriage~

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C

CornBurrito

Member
berzeli said:
Yet again, I'm not saying you're wrong I'm saying that you (and specifically you) are overly reductionist and abrasive when it comes certain moral issues.

*the collective we and society in this case are Swedish.
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And I'm saying that I haven't actually been that reductionist. Way back when I made my abrasive posts about cheating, we literally had someone argue that cheating on your BF was fine if it was with a hot guy. If you think that behavior is beyond reproach then we just have fundamentally different ways of thinking. Calling my way of thinking overly reductionist simply because you don't like it isn't something I'm going to take seriously.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
CornBurrito said:
And I'm saying that I haven't actually been that reductionist. Way back when I made my abrasive posts about cheating, we literally had someone argue that cheating on your BF was fine if it was with a hot guy. If you think that behavior is beyond reproach then we just have fundamentally different ways of thinking. Calling my way of thinking overly reductionist simply because you don't like it isn't something I'm going to take seriously.
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Oh hey, an actual argument regarding what we've been talking about which for the most part isn't attacking me over things you imagined that I wrote. Cool.

When you say that half the thread isn't just ok with cheating but would cheat in any given situation you are being incredibly reductionist and unnecessarily abrasive.

When you say I am defending cheaters and their behaviour when I'm telling you to maybe tone it down a bit or find a different way of expressing yourself. You are being reductionist.

When you take what one person's weird argument about cheating, overlooking those who posted that they think cheating is wrong, presenting it as if it was the only thing being posted you're being reductionist.

I'm not saying you're being reductionist for no reason. I'm saying it because you are being incredibly reductionist in this particular matter.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
berzeli said:
When you take what one person's weird argument about cheating, overlooking those who posted that they think cheating is wrong, presenting it as if it was the only thing being posted you're being reductionist.
Click to expand...

Except I never did this. At worst, my claims was 50% of the thread. Which means I never overlooked the people who posted that they think cheating is wrong.

And my 50% claim was, i thought, very clearly hyperbole.
 
B

berzeli

Banned
CornBurrito said:
Except I never did this. At worst, my claims was 50% of the thread. Which means I never overlooked the people who posted that they think cheating is wrong.
Click to expand...

CornBurrito said:
That's cool and all, but the cheating that most people in this thread were defending at that time was not some morally ambiguous grey area. It was "I see a hot dude with a boyfriend, who gives a fuck." or "I have a boyfriend but so what, we both cheat on each other."
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Duuuude. Don't keep going for minor technicalities. Especially when you seemingly can't remember your own arguments.

And my 50% claim was, i thought, very clearly hyperbole.
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Yeah, unnecessary, abrasive, reductionist hyperbole.
 
V

Vitanimus

Member
cornburrito is giving me major "i did a few psychology classes I KNOW how the world works ok" teas

but i agree with berzeli in terms that you have a history of "well if you're not with me you're against me" mentality

0GqH6.gif
 
S

Spyware

Member
CornBurrito said:
And my 50% claim was, i thought, very clearly hyperbole.
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Very clear to me at least. I also understand why you made the comment. The things said about someone having a boyfriend was pretty easy to link to the previous discussion on cheating, and I took the original comment from you as a cheeky potshot. I have no problems with it, but I can see why some may have.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
Vitanimus said:
cornburrito is giving me major "i did a few psychology classes I KNOW how the world works ok" teas
Click to expand...

Not really. I recognize that morality technically is relative and will shift over time. That's no reason to never take a moral stance against anything. Which is why I don't take "morality is relative' as a serious argument.

Vitanimus said:
but i agree with berzeli in terms that you have a history of "well if you're not with me you're against me" mentality.
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Which I personally don't think is an unjustifiable position to take, depending on the situation. You might call it a grey area.
 
T

Ty4on

Member
CornBurrito said:
That's cool and all, but the cheating that most people in this thread were defending at that time was not some morally ambiguous grey area. It was "I see a hot dude with a boyfriend, who gives a fuck." or "I have a boyfriend but so what, we both cheat on each other."

That's grey?

For someone who talks about empathy I find it hilarious that you'd defend sleeping with someone who is in a committed relationship. Cause yeah, you'd definitely want that to happen to you so it makes sense to do it to other people.
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I planned on writing profanity, but instead:
CornBurrito said:
[...]but the cheating that most people in this thread were defending at that time was not some morally ambiguous grey area. [...]
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Citation needed

I tried finding what you were talking about, but you were never specific in your posts and this seemed to be the theme when someone brought up cheating:
jUfUDjF.png

w5duYup.png

ZqO4Cvw.png

PnAb3eC.png
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Instead you focused on the vague posts by Blackstarhat and Dead Prince who jokes about everything:
fx8BmoX.png
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While ignoring the post that started it all:
4wFXlyz.png

9jpECXr.png

TlBOjg2.png
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Edit:
CornBurrito said:
Except I never did this. At worst, my claims was 50% of the thread. Which means I never overlooked the people who posted that they think cheating is wrong.

And my 50% claim was, i thought, very clearly hyperbole.
Click to expand...
You expect that to be obvious yet you can't spot Dead Prince's sarcasm?
 
R

Rayis

Member
I'm a boring gay with absolutely no desire to bang as many men as possible, I just want a guy of my own, that's why I often say I'm a straight girl trapped in a gay guy's body.
 
U

umop_3pisdn

Member
This is why you seem mentally rigid cornburrito, you seem like you get fixated on particular points as a way of 'controlling' an argument (not the argument itself, but your understanding of the situation), which seems like it's an overzealous reactionary attitude motivated by I don't know what, remaining unassailable I assume.
 
S

sophora

Member
Broke up with my BF a month ago, was together for over five years (was to be six in November...). He was pretty much my first boyfriend in real life and helped me deal with a lot of medical/mental issues I had in the first three years and was really kind/supportive, even getting me an art easel with paint one xmas. It wasn't until the fourth/fifth years he started becoming distant and wanted more than me bottoming for him, which I was totally for topping him but he said he couldn't take me seriously enough nor was I big enough for his needs. We communicated well and tried an open relationship in the fifth year and he got himself a "pet."

I pay attention and saw slowly his interest and affection towards me decrease while his care for his new pet was growing more and more intimate. I didn't want to let go of him because of how long we were together, but I just couldn't bear with seeing him be so affectionate to someone else while I just dealt with my own issues. So I told him the truth and we both agreed to break it off.

Still feeling heartache a month later and miss him. He and I would even play games co-op together, but now I just feel the sting of being solo even more. Bleh...single again...
 
D

daripad

Member
Rayis said:
I'm a boring gay with absolutely no desire to bang as many men as possible, I just want a guy of my own, that's why I often say I'm a straight girl trapped in a gay guy's body.
Click to expand...

Me too, sincerely I just want to have a single guy to bang and love :3 Yeah, I'm that boring :p
 
K

Kater

Banned
sophora said:
Broke up with my BF a month ago, was together for over five years (was to be six in November...). He was pretty much my first boyfriend in real life and helped me deal with a lot of medical/mental issues I had in the first three years and was really kind/supportive, even getting me an art easel with paint one xmas. It wasn't until the fourth/fifth years he started becoming distant and wanted more than me bottoming for him, which I was totally for topping him but he said he couldn't take me seriously enough nor was I big enough for his needs. We communicated well and tried an open relationship in the fifth year and he got himself a "pet."

I pay attention and saw slowly his interest and affection towards me decrease while his care for his new pet was growing more and more intimate. I didn't want to let go of him because of how long we were together, but I just couldn't bear with seeing him be so affectionate to someone else while I just dealt with my own issues. So I told him the truth and we both agreed to break it off.

Still feeling heartache a month later and miss him. He and I would even play games co-op together, but now I just feel the sting of being solo even more. Bleh...single again...
Click to expand...
That's definitely sad. :( Hope you find something to do that fills the hole in your heart!

daripad said:
Me too, sincerely I just want to have a single guy to bang and love :3 Yeah, I'm that boring :p
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Not boring, just different in that way.

Some people want to have more than one person they share love with and others want a partnership with only two people. Either is healthy and okay as long as there is balance.
 
A

AlexMeloche

Member
So I got a date on Monday, to the museum (again). First date in this new city. Was planning to go alone but the guy loved museums too so why not?

halfbeast said:
but it feels so good. D:
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Not if you're the one getting cheated on.

sophora said:
Broke up with my BF a month ago, was together for over five years (was to be six in November...). He was pretty much my first boyfriend in real life and helped me deal with a lot of medical/mental issues I had in the first three years and was really kind/supportive, even getting me an art easel with paint one xmas. It wasn't until the fourth/fifth years he started becoming distant and wanted more than me bottoming for him, which I was totally for topping him but he said he couldn't take me seriously enough nor was I big enough for his needs. We communicated well and tried an open relationship in the fifth year and he got himself a "pet."

I pay attention and saw slowly his interest and affection towards me decrease while his care for his new pet was growing more and more intimate. I didn't want to let go of him because of how long we were together, but I just couldn't bear with seeing him be so affectionate to someone else while I just dealt with my own issues. So I told him the truth and we both agreed to break it off.

Still feeling heartache a month later and miss him. He and I would even play games co-op together, but now I just feel the sting of being solo even more. Bleh...single again...
Click to expand...

Ouch. Trying to go open relationship during the 5th year must have been hard. I don't know what I would do if my bf asked me this after that long... Try to take some time for yourself, learn new stuff, try some things with friends.
 
U

umop_3pisdn

Member
About monogamy I think relationships are like choosing a family or a cult (same thing really, families are like benign cults). They exist as some smaller 'cell' based on shared values or an understanding of the world, and they engage with the world outside of that space through work or acting on their shared values. So basically you make a literal or metaphorical 'home' with someone, and then use that as a base to meaningfully include more of the world once you feel established enough to start directing your attention there. It's probably possible to do that with more than one person in a romantic capacity, but I don't think I could, I think I would get caught up in more superficial stuff that doesn't really matter.
 
V

Vazduh

Member
sophora said:
Broke up with my BF a month ago, was together for over five years (was to be six in November...). He was pretty much my first boyfriend in real life and helped me deal with a lot of medical/mental issues I had in the first three years and was really kind/supportive, even getting me an art easel with paint one xmas. It wasn't until the fourth/fifth years he started becoming distant and wanted more than me bottoming for him, which I was totally for topping him but he said he couldn't take me seriously enough nor was I big enough for his needs. We communicated well and tried an open relationship in the fifth year and he got himself a "pet."

I pay attention and saw slowly his interest and affection towards me decrease while his care for his new pet was growing more and more intimate. I didn't want to let go of him because of how long we were together, but I just couldn't bear with seeing him be so affectionate to someone else while I just dealt with my own issues. So I told him the truth and we both agreed to break it off.

Still feeling heartache a month later and miss him. He and I would even play games co-op together, but now I just feel the sting of being solo even more. Bleh...single again...
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that. I don't know the full story (nobody does but you), but it seems you were kind of... mistreated for the last couple of years of your relationship? Sounds like it was a harsh time for you, even before the fifth year. Definitely unhealthy.

Getting over him will most definitely take some time, but ultimately, I hope you realize you're better off without someone like that. AlexMeloche gave you great advice so maybe you could try doing that, if you have the will to do so, of course.
 
K

Kevyt

Member
CornBurrito said:
That apparently wouldn't stop half the people in this thread.
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I'm a liberal so I do not see anything wrong with consentual touching, as long as both parties are fine with it.

Would that be cheating? You could make the case that it's a form of cheating but everyone has a right to decide what they want to do with their bodies. Simple as that.

Again, I see this this from a very liberal point of view.
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
Seath said:
I'm a liberal so I do not see anything wrong with consentual touching, as long as both parties are fine with it.

Would that be cheating? You could make the case that it's a form of cheating but everyone has a right to decide what they want to do with their bodies. Simple as that.

Again, I see this this from a very liberal point of view.
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I'm not understanding. Are you saying it isn't cheating because the cheater and the person they are cheating with are having consensual sex? Because in that case you're pretty much stating that there's no such thing as cheating. Unless you subscribe to the biblical idea where if a married woman is raped it counts as her being an adulterer.
 
U

umop_3pisdn

Member
CornBurrito said:
I'm not understanding. Are you saying it isn't cheating because the cheater and the person they are cheating with are having consensual sex? Because in that case you're pretty much stating that there's no such thing as cheating. Unless you subscribe to the biblical idea where if a married woman is raped it counts as her being an adulterer.
Click to expand...

Lol classic this guy. You know you can have an argument without immediately ramping it up to 100, your sense of the actual stakes seems consistently miscalibrated.
 
U

umop_3pisdn

Member
CornBurrito said:
I know he doesnt subscribe to that idea.
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And I know you know that. I was drawing attention to the tone you use to enagage with people. I can only assume it seems hostile because you're trying to preemptively protect yourself from some sort of attack, only your anxiety is apparently some generalized attitude coming from past experiences or something thus not anyone else's problem?
 
K

Kevyt

Member
CornBurrito said:
I'm not understanding. Are you saying it isn't cheating because the cheater and the person they are cheating with are having consensual sex? Because in that case you're pretty much stating that there's no such thing as cheating. Unless you subscribe to the biblical idea where if a married woman is raped it counts as her being an adulterer.
Click to expand...

I said consentual touching in regards to B-Dex post about cakes and stuff... Touching as in grabbing someone else, not sex. I said it's fine as long as it's consensual. Likewise, we can make a case for this type of interaction to be considered a form of cheating but in the end everyone can do as they please with their bodies. Whether this is letting someone else touch you, to even having having sex with someone else. However I was only pointing out the touching part, not the sex part.

Red herring much? ;)

Blood Diamonds said:
Could you guys do an open relationship? I'd probably die if I tried it... I'm too weak for it lol
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I don't think I could. I saw the guy I hooked up with flirting with another guy and I was really jealous. It's not like we're in a relationship or anything but it hit me hard, lol.

So yeah, I'm weak too.
 
A

alvmew

Member
Blood Diamonds said:
Could you guys do an open relationship? I'd probably die if I tried it... I'm too weak for it lol
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Definitely not. Even if it's just a "traditional" open relationship where it's just about finding other sexual partners - I already feel a lot of insecurity about my performance in that area (even when I'm generally told it's pretty damn good lol), so to have my partner be getting that somewhere else would pretty much cement it in my crazy head that I'm not good enough and I know I couldn't handle that.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I'd be willing to give it a shot. Would be interested in seeing how much control I have over my gut emotions.
 
3

3phemeral

Member
Blood Diamonds said:
Could you guys do an open relationship? I'd probably die if I tried it... I'm too weak for it lol
Click to expand...

Nope. All of the friends I know who have tried it have ruined theirs. Not to mention that the reason why they opted for open involved a stagnating romance to begin with. So it comes off as a way to spice up the relationship when you don't know how to, so you pick the most tempting, easily accessible route available.

I'm sure there are couples who have this thing worked out but I don't know them.

o7eJcxQ.gif
 
S

Spyware

Member
Blood Diamonds said:
Could you guys do an open relationship? I'd probably die if I tried it... I'm too weak for it lol
Click to expand...
Nah. I've tried because I thought I'd like it (especially since I then could have both a male and a female partner at the same time which was something I thought I needed at the time) but it wasn't for me. I'm mono as fuck :)
 
C

CornBurrito

Member
Seath said:
I said consentual touching in regards to B-Dex post about cakes and stuff... Touching as in grabbing someone else, not sex. I said it's fine as long as it's consensual. Likewise, we can make a case for this type of interaction to be considered a form of cheating but in the end everyone can do as they please with their bodies. Whether this is letting someone else touch you, to even having having sex with someone else. However I was only pointing out the touching part, not the sex part.

Red herring much? ;)



I don't think I could. I saw the guy I hooked up with flirting with another guy and I was really jealous. It's not like we're in a relationship or anything but it hit me hard, lol.

So yeah, I'm weak too.
Click to expand...

I thought touching cakes was a euphemism for a lot more than actually just touching.
 
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