Aww, you guys are the best.
Also, lmao:
That is perhaps the best grindr account.
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That is perhaps the best grindr account.
Even the Crest ad fits, what with the killing and all.
DOWN
Banned
About Grindr racism etc.
1. Posting things like "no blacks" is a bad way to go about stating preferences. I don't know how you filter preferences out on a site like Grindr where it is meant to be convenient and superficial, however, so I imagine many would rather note a racial barrier than spend the time sorting through unlikely matches until it becomes much less convenient. Perhaps that level of superficial convenience simply has no respectful place anywhere.
2. That said, on Grindr, people are looking for efficient, convenient, sexual matches made easy. They are not there to tread sensitively and sift through unlikely matches for them (even if that is the kinder way to be). If a "no blacks" user, for example, knows they find Idris Elba hot, but almost no other black men in their experiences meeting people, then obviously they have a really specific standard (albeit unrealistically high). Therefore, it can seem like a bit of a conflict to be looking for the convenience of online hookups yet not taking advantage of filtering sexual attraction preferences the way an actual dating site filters out different interests. Thus, they put "no blacks" because finding an Idris Elba is so unlikely (and not something they are setting out to do) that they would like to narrow the pool to their likely attractions.
People speaking out against such "filters" often seem to overlook or perhaps intentionally exaggerate by saying that the person is locking themselves out of an entire racial category when they could find a really great match that they might like. Or opposers will say the user is making the claim that no one of the race they have eliminated on Grindr is attractive. Neither are the case as far as I've gathered in discussion. They are locking themselves out of a category on Grindr and the like. Not on their soulmate search on a serious dating site. And they are not saying "no [insert race] because none of you can be hot or as hot," EDIT: actually some people are saying that, but I mean more commonly- they are saying that the Idris Elba or Ryan Gosling or Mark Consuelos or whatever rare attraction they've experienced in a racial category is too unlikely for it to make the search convenient. Just like dating sites push you to find a good match, hookup users want to only see their likely attractions fulfilled and to filter their contacts in order make the experience convenient. They want that easier match experience of dating sites, but on a sexual and superficial level.
3. Preference is common to every category of human when it comes to dating, let alone hook-ups. We've talked about the stats here before. While gays are less racially selective in dating than straights, it's common among both. Hookups are a more blunt exchange to begin with, so if there's anywhere you might see it expressed more, it isn't surprising that it's in these apps where the filtering is going to be superficial because sexual attraction is just about all that is at stake.
Even an understanding individual who is developing or has already developed an understanding of the issue at large with racial selection, may still indeed have long term preferences that they can't wake up and say are gone just because the conversation on race resonates with them. Whether conditioned in part or in full, racial and superficial preferences are present on a wide scale and expressing them doesn't mean that the individual is choosing to be racist or insensitive. I don't know a good way to narrow down your options on Grindr politely so I'm not surprised that many racial comments come from that sexual exchange environment, but in serious dating and for the sake of being decent, you should obviously just take the time to look through others' pictures and interests and make polite individual declines when necessary.
While it's fair to expect people here on some level to acknowledge how crude and hurtful the Grindr mentality and its real world counterparts can be, it's worth acknowledging that preferences are a thing and not some sort of flip-switch intentional racism on the part of anyone who says they have types or preferences. Here in LettersGAF, when someone says they prefer X and understand others having preferences, that doesn't mean they warrant the response that implies a sentiment akin to "yeah, preferences - you decidedly racist and ignorant person."
I had originally typed this and more yesterday and closed it or something so I lost it and now don't know if that's everything I meant to comment on so whatevs, thanks for reading and feel free to share your thoughts.
1. Posting things like "no blacks" is a bad way to go about stating preferences. I don't know how you filter preferences out on a site like Grindr where it is meant to be convenient and superficial, however, so I imagine many would rather note a racial barrier than spend the time sorting through unlikely matches until it becomes much less convenient. Perhaps that level of superficial convenience simply has no respectful place anywhere.
2. That said, on Grindr, people are looking for efficient, convenient, sexual matches made easy. They are not there to tread sensitively and sift through unlikely matches for them (even if that is the kinder way to be). If a "no blacks" user, for example, knows they find Idris Elba hot, but almost no other black men in their experiences meeting people, then obviously they have a really specific standard (albeit unrealistically high). Therefore, it can seem like a bit of a conflict to be looking for the convenience of online hookups yet not taking advantage of filtering sexual attraction preferences the way an actual dating site filters out different interests. Thus, they put "no blacks" because finding an Idris Elba is so unlikely (and not something they are setting out to do) that they would like to narrow the pool to their likely attractions.
People speaking out against such "filters" often seem to overlook or perhaps intentionally exaggerate by saying that the person is locking themselves out of an entire racial category when they could find a really great match that they might like. Or opposers will say the user is making the claim that no one of the race they have eliminated on Grindr is attractive. Neither are the case as far as I've gathered in discussion. They are locking themselves out of a category on Grindr and the like. Not on their soulmate search on a serious dating site. And they are not saying "no [insert race] because none of you can be hot or as hot," EDIT: actually some people are saying that, but I mean more commonly- they are saying that the Idris Elba or Ryan Gosling or Mark Consuelos or whatever rare attraction they've experienced in a racial category is too unlikely for it to make the search convenient. Just like dating sites push you to find a good match, hookup users want to only see their likely attractions fulfilled and to filter their contacts in order make the experience convenient. They want that easier match experience of dating sites, but on a sexual and superficial level.
3. Preference is common to every category of human when it comes to dating, let alone hook-ups. We've talked about the stats here before. While gays are less racially selective in dating than straights, it's common among both. Hookups are a more blunt exchange to begin with, so if there's anywhere you might see it expressed more, it isn't surprising that it's in these apps where the filtering is going to be superficial because sexual attraction is just about all that is at stake.
Even an understanding individual who is developing or has already developed an understanding of the issue at large with racial selection, may still indeed have long term preferences that they can't wake up and say are gone just because the conversation on race resonates with them. Whether conditioned in part or in full, racial and superficial preferences are present on a wide scale and expressing them doesn't mean that the individual is choosing to be racist or insensitive. I don't know a good way to narrow down your options on Grindr politely so I'm not surprised that many racial comments come from that sexual exchange environment, but in serious dating and for the sake of being decent, you should obviously just take the time to look through others' pictures and interests and make polite individual declines when necessary.
While it's fair to expect people here on some level to acknowledge how crude and hurtful the Grindr mentality and its real world counterparts can be, it's worth acknowledging that preferences are a thing and not some sort of flip-switch intentional racism on the part of anyone who says they have types or preferences. Here in LettersGAF, when someone says they prefer X and understand others having preferences, that doesn't mean they warrant the response that implies a sentiment akin to "yeah, preferences - you decidedly racist and ignorant person."
I had originally typed this and more yesterday and closed it or something so I lost it and now don't know if that's everything I meant to comment on so whatevs, thanks for reading and feel free to share your thoughts.
Your post is long and stuff but I wanted to point out THIS part. I dont think gays are any less racially selective than straight men. I see it a lot and experince it a lot that being Black simply puts roadblocks there JUST because of that. It hurts even more in the gay community when people harp on about all of use being one and together then quickly tossing you to the side if you arent a white gay guy. I dunno that shit hurts and it makes me side eye some not all of the gay community.
kitchenmotors
Banned
I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't deal with whites telling me the gay community isn't racial selective or has a huge issue with casual racism. I've witnessed it in the gay community since I was a teenager and it always feels like something that is sorta brushed aside.
DOWN
Banned
I don't know if there's a good way to anecdotally measure how common it is among who and I don't know about straight men specifically, so I classed it as common among both straight and gay dating in general because that's what I recall in the online dating stats we've looked at from OKCupid before. So to be clear that's the dating stats posted here before that I was referencing where the data concluded gays were less racially selective, but both gays and straights are racially selective in general.
Is that how my post came off or others have done that here in LettersGAF or do you mean in general?
kitchenmotors
Banned
I mean in general.
I think this is the heart of the issue, the issue is not racism, although its certainly a problem, the issue is that Grindr is kind of awful. Like those tweets said, and in that part I completely agree 100%, gay people have had so little to no experience in dating they just prefer to stuck to these hypersexualized environments which by their nature are pretty discriminatory, superficial and shallow.
It's a good thing kids these days are coming out earlier and earlier, the importance of a "normal" adolescence and healthy, regular dating when young cannot be overstated enough.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Since when is excluding people on race not racist? When we're trying to get laid? Ok sis.
umop_3pisdn
Member
I think the gay community is pretty racist and sexist, and usually in a pretty cavalier way too. I think it's maybe that white males still have a lot of privilege, so give them like a bit of perspective outside of the norm via being gay and suddenly they feel like they have the right to talk about stuff they know nothing about, like male entitlement plus "but I'm discriminated against, too!" It's probably kind of the same deal with white feminism come to think of it.
kitchenmotors
Banned
Since when is excluding people on race not racist? When we're trying to get laid? Ok sis.
oop
This is literally what I feel.
Perhaps not all Grindr users are blatantly racist, but they're invested in and sustain a standard of beauty that is, at least in part, born from the favoring of white males above males of other ethnicities (especially in popular media), and brush it off as merely a preference when what's really happening is that they've internalized the habit of racial discrimination inherent in non-queer culture.
I don't think this is limited to whites, even if they're the most obvious offenders. I have no doubt that Asian gays and Black gays show a preference for whites as well. It's true of hets, why wouldn't it be true of homos? Being gay doesn't automatically immunize you against internalized racial discrimination.
I don't think this is limited to whites, even if they're the most obvious offenders. I have no doubt that Asian gays and Black gays show a preference for whites as well. It's true of hets, why wouldn't it be true of homos? Being gay doesn't automatically immunize you against internalized racial discrimination.
Astral Dog
Member
Yeah its really common and normal to be a bit racially selective when looking for a hookup (or date), we all have different tastes and preferences (skinny, fat, muscled, hairy, hairless, brunette, blonde, redhead, age, facial features,etc.).
Its not a perfect system but something like racial features obviously have an impact to every person, depending on their "taste" and that is something so vaguely defined or influenced by many factors both internal and external-
Its not a perfect system but something like racial features obviously have an impact to every person, depending on their "taste" and that is something so vaguely defined or influenced by many factors both internal and external-
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
So... everyones racist?
DOWN
Banned
I hope this isn't too delicate to get some light shed on for me but go for itSince when is excluding people on race not racist? When we're trying to get laid? Ok sis.
Example: Someone here in LettersGAF (their race doesn't matter) says they tend to prefer X, but they also express support for eliminating racial standards of beauty, racism in general, and express support for the conversations on race provided by racial minorities here. Their preference, which may or may not ever be eliminated, then seems unintentional or maybe is conditional racism? Like they would be called a racist? And what should they do about that?
Leona Lewis
Banned
I suppose. There are certain physical features that come with certain ethnic/racial backgrounds.
I, for example, don't like hyperpigmentation or ashy elbows/knees. Or discolored skin. Or big lips. Or unibrows.
Or people.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
It seems like really murky waters to tread and clear up. I'm a little hesitant to consider someone racist based on what they're attracted to though.
Most of us here don't wanna date or bang women. Does that mean we think less of them, or that we're sexist?
Most of us here don't wanna date or bang women. Does that mean we think less of them, or that we're sexist?
Escape Goat
Member
Someone post more pics of hotdogs.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
So what do you call it then? If race is the sole factor...?
kitchenmotors
Banned
I don't think someone is racist because of what they're attracted to, but there is a bit of casual racism when you literally say "no blacks, hispanics or asians" because that's what you're not attracted to.
Racism is still racism.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I guess a type based on physical features that happen to generally correlate to a specific given race? If we're talking attraction though I'd like to think the deciding factor here is appearance and physical features rather than race itself. And I'd also like to think everyone would have their type rather than one standard that everybody would deem right.
umop_3pisdn
Member
I'm more likely to find white people attractive (for example), but I think people who dismiss it as 'just preferences' seem like they have trouble stepping outside of themselves, or maybe they're unwilling to for some reason. Occasionally we're able to break our eye open and see stuff in a more fresh way that doesn't have the cumulative weight of our expectations and life experiences behind it, and I can easily imagine having different preferences if I was socialized differently. The preferences thing is valid but I also think it needs an addendum, and on its own it seem kind of glib or facile of an explanation. It can be a murky grey area, we don't have to try to stamp out ambiguity as if it doesn't exist.
DOWN
Banned
Google says implicit bias
Different than racism in that it isn't consciously supported, pursued, or empirically argued for by an individual who possesses the bias
EDIT: coined by headlines as the "Everybody's a little bit racist" test and you can take the tests online
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Yeah I agree. You don't have to be a rude ass just cause you have preferences.
Not really the same thing. Your sexuality is innate. Your preferences and standards of beauty for the sex you're attracted to is conditioned.
And if you're conditioned by a racist society well, some of that discrimination passes on to you.
No one can be said to be born racist; it's a learned behavior, like preferences.
Escape Goat
Member
Racism depends on the belief that a race is inferior or superior to another. Sexual attraction int a belief, its a biological imperative. People are going to like what they like.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
So if i, for some inexplicable reason, find white people inherently untrustworthy, just because they're white its just a bias and not racism. Sweet!
Sweet again. All this time i thought I was racist.
I dunno, "no blacks" seems consciously supported to me.
It's one thing if you've yet to find an Asian guy attractive. It's another if you filter out all Asians in your dating app.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
That's a belief rather than attraction though.
DOWN
Banned
I think that's called a delusion if it came out of nowhere? And if it is something you just think because your parents said it, then it's a consciously perpetuated belief that you haven't critically examined. But I just found 'implicit bias' like 10 minutes ago on Google so help me out in figuring out if it really is appropriate to call everyone a racist now.
<+)O Robido O(+>
Member
Nope. Implicit bias.
How come some people get their preference shaped by society, but not others? I find black guys just as hot as any other kind of guy, and I've never even had a conversation with a black person in my life. And they're basically invisible in Mexican media since they're a minuscule minority.
Simple. Racism in Mexico is not as much of an issue as it is in the US. I mean Mexico does have its problems with racism, and slavery (had), but not to the same degree as in the US.
We also don't have "white mexicans, black mexicans, asian mexicans" or any of that shenanigans. Whether you're black, pink or green, you're still Mexican! No such thing when you go to the doctor and you're filling out the form (check one: Black mexican, white Mexican, other etc...)
We're all Mexicans regardless of color!! \o/
Mexico is more progressive in that regard if you think about it.
deltatheta
Member
I think that's overly simplistic. Stereotypes can be positive or negative or neutral, that doesn't really change the fact that it's not fair to generalize people based on their race.
What you're attracted to isn't developed in a vacuum and assigned at birth. Everyone develops their sexuality in a culture that is immersed in racism. It's a tough question, I don't fault people for having racial preferences in dating, but I think we should be thoughtful about it and not just decide that it's not worth reflecting on because it doesn't appear to be a clear cut instance of dictionary definition racism.
umop_3pisdn
Member
thank you.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I mean ya I guess you can label that belief as a bias. I'm not sure it'd hold for an attraction though if I'm gonna play Devils advocate.
I mean, I have seen black people, and I'm exposed to them in foreign media (and no, I'm not talking about models or anything similar). The point is, if I lived in the US starting tomorrow, I'd be more than okay to date guys of any race, including black guys.
Soulscribe
Member
I think this is the best one we have so far.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
I think another thing that people forget here is that absolutes do not work on human groups. The human factor will always present variables. So while someone might not find race "x" unattractive, I bet there'll be some people within that group they'd be into.
With that in mind, I do believe it's definitely racist to put things like "NO BLACKS, ASIANS, ETC." They're taking a general preference and writing off any potential possibilities.
With that in mind, I do believe it's definitely racist to put things like "NO BLACKS, ASIANS, ETC." They're taking a general preference and writing off any potential possibilities.
Aeriscloud
Banned
I do see no blacks or asians quite a bit, but I see no fats or fems almost as much.
But fuck that, Chubby asian men are the best.
But fuck that, Chubby asian men are the best.
ZombiePlatypus
Member
Setting aside what your attractions are, it's just a fucking shitty thing to say. I don't understand why or how Grindr facilitated this weird culture of being a dick. You can be efficient and to the point without being an asshole.
The issue is in the dating part I think, people with "no asians" in their Grindr profile are not likely to be trying to date, they just want to hook up. There's a lot of awful rejection in those apps not limited to race, you can get just as easily rejected if you are too fat, not tall enough, not fit enough, not enough body hair, too much body hair, etc, etc, and many people are pretty blunt when saying so, in they same way they reject based on skin color.
My (very limited) experience has taught me attraction can actually change over time the more you know someone, although there is some basic characteristics for the attraction, but they are too broad. Now I don't think if your sex life is limited to Grindr encounters that you really experience this kind of growth and change, and if anything it just narrows your views a lot.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Well, It's not just Grindr is the problem. It's Craiglist, it's Growlr, It's A4A, it's nearly any where you look, in every part of the gay community and it's messed up. People are people, why can't someone get to know someone first?
True. I mean, I guess it's different if your goal is a hook up.
BTW, I swear I've seen a couple of times "no Asians"... while in Japan. From Asian guys. How does that even work? (Maybe they should consider moving to a country that isn't 98% ethically Japanese, lol). Are there black guys who won't date / sex other black guys?
Leona Lewis
Banned
Maybe get off the Internet?
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