• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Limo burned at inauguration protest was owned by a Muslim immigrant; cost him $70,000

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
C24uEpjXcAYbSMw_1485213322293_7897214_ver1.0.jpg


We've already had our discussions about understanding the violence that occurs at protests, and the racist, institutional violence perpetrated by our own government that these protests are designed to combat. But let's put that aside for a second to take a closer look of the aftereffects of the protest violence.

(edit: I'm going to take out this comment since it's merely anecdotal, and it's distracting from the main thesis of the OP)

Take, for example, this guy:

https://twitter.com/deliangoncalves/status/823646460784836610

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/vandalized-businesses-return-after-inauguration-protests/391426530 (VIDEO report also in link)

”I still get that sinking feeling," said Muhammad Ashraf of Nationwide Chauffeured Services.

His driver, Luis Villarroel, was attacked while sitting in his limousine Friday.

He had just dropped of someone attending inauguration when a group of protestors smashed through his windows.

He said his driver just managed to get out in time before most of the damage but his hand was cut pretty badly. The limo was then torched.

”Why do they play with people's lives," wondered Ashraf. ”One of those rocks could have hit him in the head."

http://redalertpolitics.com/2017/01...n-muslim-immigrants-livelihood-torching-limo/ (note: right wing source, but the only other outlet that interviewed him. I'm trying to leave in just quotes and excise the editorializations)

In an exclusive interview with Red Alert Politics, Ashraf said he wasn't a supporter of Donald Trump during his campaign, but Friday's protests were completely counter-productive.

”I have a different point of view," Ashraf told Red Alert. ”I did not agree with many of the things he said, but that still does not give me the right to go and affect someone's livelihood."

Ashraf noted that the Women's March on Washington and in other cities around the country was a model for how to peacefully protest.

”I really don't think we need to take this [violent] route."

”[We've] been in business for over 25 years and this is the first time this has happened," Ashraf said.

Ashraf explained that with the loss of the vehicle, his company is now in the hole for $70,000 (if insurance doesn't cover riots) plus commission and the medical bills for his driver.

Also, this other guy, an Asian immigrant:

Sam Komol had just opened the doors for lunch at Sushi AOI on New York Avenue in Northwest, D.C. when he saw a group of Inauguration protesters coming down 12th Street.

They smashed windows at Bobby Van's restaurant then headed his way.

”In 15 seconds, I locked the door and they were pulling it trying to get in," he said.

He then heard a loud smash and saw vandals had busted one of his windows with a hammer. Thankfully, no customers were sitting by that window.

So we have two examples here that involve brown people being harmed by an anti-racism protest. This is not meant to discredit the idea of protests in general, but to encourage reflection to find a way to protest that does not harm the very people one is trying to help via protesting.

This is why supposedly nuanced positions like this are still not so nuanced:

Blanket statements like "violence is bad" are way too simplistic. Violence against innocent people? Bad. Violence against property? Not so much.

When the government is doing the former, we shouldn't be clucking our tongues at the latter.

Essentially, the violence against those people of color's property directly harms their ability to make a living, which is in effect violence against their person as well.

Thoughts?



PS: Weird coincidence - the logo for the sushi restaurant looks like an anarchy sign :p

http://www.thesushiaoi.com/
 

Barzul

Member
Someone has to own their vehicles. I don't think their background is that much important as progress has always had casualties and I feel bad for the guy that has to endure this. Hopefully his insurance ends up covering it.

Very difficult to coordinate non violent protests when there are so many disparate groups involved.
 

PAULINK

I microwave steaks.
ridiculous how riots can produce property damage where there are no repercussions, whoever was involved should be in jail.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I think people were not posting in your thread because it's a whole can of worms. The premise of the OP sounds like it is worse that innocent non-whites are hurt than innocent whites during these riots. Obviously people rioting specifically against racism and then attacking an innocent POC is dumb and terrible. I'm just not sure what to take from the message of the OP.
 

Griss

Member
One of the justifications I hear for property damage is that it's just the property of the bourgeoisie, or that it's merely white property. It might be, but then again, it might not.

What in the fuck?

If this was a white person's car it's okay, but since it's a muslim's it's bad? Am I reading this correctly? There are people who think this way? Pretty sure there's a term for that kind of thinking.
 
What in the fuck?

If this was a white person's car it's okay, but since it's a muslim's it's bad? Am I reading this correctly? There are people who think this way? Pretty sure there's a term for that kind of thinking.
According to them racism only exists when it's the class in power oppressing the ones not in power, when it's the reverse its fighting back
 

Pizza

Member
What in the fuck?

If this was a white person's car it's okay, but since it's a muslim's it's bad? Am I reading this correctly? There are people who think this way? Pretty sure there's a term for that kind of thinking.


This, not saying the op is racist but it's an easy slope to slip down once you start generalizing a race and their lives and worth. Not that I'm belittling the minority experience, I'm not, but property damage against your fellow oppressed citizen isn't the right route.

I'm all for protests, even protests that get very vocal, but lasting out in this way isn't helping to put your cause in a positive light
 

RDreamer

Member
The people doing bullshit like this were largely asshole anarchists. They weren't damaging their cause by doing it, either because their cause is anarchy. Fuck them and also fuck the people that use what those idiots do to discredit largely peaceful protests.

I obviously feel for those whose property is damaged through no fault of their own though.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
I think people were not posting in your thread because it's a whole can of worms. The premise of the OP sounds like it is worse that innocent non-whites are hurt than innocent whites during these riots. Obviously people rioting specifically against racism and then attacking an innocent POC is dumb and terrible. I'm just not sure what to take from the message of the OP.

You mean this?

So we have two examples here that involve brown people being harmed by an anti-racism protest. This is not meant to discredit the idea of protests in general, but to encourage reflection to find a way to protest that does not harm the very people one is trying to help via protesting.
 

BowieZ

Banned
The people who did it don't give a shit.

They're basically anarchists and are deliberately violent.
Inciting violence is (almost) always counter-productive.

March peacefully, voice dissent, be civilly disobedient.

And if need be, be violent only when the authorities incite violence first.


Meanwhile, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some false-flag agency at work (James O'Keefe's gang) attempting to inflame the incitement.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
What in the fuck?

If this was a white person's car it's okay, but since it's a muslim's it's bad? Am I reading this correctly? There are people who think this way? Pretty sure there's a term for that kind of thinking.

I've been to quite a few protests, and this is a train of thought that I have heard multiple times. I don't think it's representative of the majority, however.

For what it's worth, I also don't recall ever hearing it from someone who also wasn't white themselves, if I remember correctly. *shrug*
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Oh I read your whole OP, but the whole message came off as confusing.

I'm sorry if it was. My efforts to make sure I wasn't trying to convey a "protests are always bad so let's not do them ever" feeling probably made my OP overly verbose.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Yeah, before people start defending the protestors who did this and saying "it's for the cause" they should actually look at who's protesting and why first. Fuck anarchists.

Anarchism is a cause.

You're free to oppose their praxis, but anarchists want to end hierarchy and oppression. That should be desirable.
 
Feels like a leap to say the victims of this destruction were harmed by the protests, as the perpetrators do not appear to have been caught and proven to have connections with the message of the protests as motive for their mayhem. More likely than not these are anarchists who always show up to mass gatherings to ruin them with violence.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm sorry if it was. My efforts to make sure I wasn't trying to convey a "protests are always bad so let's not do them ever" feeling probably made my OP overly verbose.
I figured something was getting lost in translation. You can't generally reason with opportunist Anarchists. It's fucked if anyone targets an innocent person or their property.
 
Someone has to own their vehicles. I don't think their background is that much important as progress has always had casualties and I feel bad for the guy that has to endure this. Hopefully his insurance ends up covering it.

Pretty much. Also capitalists don't get a pass for being POC. It's kind of a silly point to even raise.
 

Previous

check out my new Swatch
Parts of DC took 30 years to recover from the MLK riots, the people who started rioting at the inauguration have no respect for the local community.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
The people doing bullshit like this were largely asshole anarchists. They weren't damaging their cause by doing it, either because their cause is anarchy. Fuck them and also fuck the people that use what those idiots do to discredit largely peaceful protests.

That's the rub, though. How do we mitigate anarchist interference?
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
If you own a limo service you are a capitalist. Being from a marginalized background does not preclude you from that.

So you deserve to have your car assets burned down because you are trying to run a business service?
 
They're basically anarchists and are deliberately violent.

What's the problem with that link?

Inciting violence is (almost) always counter-productive.

This is a flat out lie.

God I fucking hate these people that come to protests with the goal of rioting, I really can't fucking stand them.

"These people" are the ones putting in the organizing work 365 days a year. They march when there are 15 people in the streets, not just when there are 1500. You are actually the one co-oping our movement with reformist, incrementalist bullshit that only legitimizes the state.

According to them racism only exists when it's the class in power oppressing the ones not in power, when it's the reverse its fighting back

Correct.
 

ACR0019

Member
Stop protesting. Go home, start a petition on change.org, write your congressperson, and watch Rachel Maddow. We'd rather not have you out there.

do you accept the legitimacy of the state or do you think it should be run according to a bi-weekly meeting


please check yes or no thank you dont cut me with your edge
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Stop protesting. Go home, start a petition on change.org, write your congressperson, and watch Rachel Maddow. We'd rather not have you out there.

I understand they have grievances too, but certain actions are not persuasive, and in fact, are counter productive.

Civil disobedience isn't going to always be 100% clean, but I'd prefer it be 100% persuasive.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
I understand they have grievances too, but certain actions are not persuasive, and in fact, are counter productive.

Civil disobedience isn't going to always be 100% clean, but I'd prefer it be 100% persuasive.

hqdefault.jpg


Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
What's the problem with that link?



This is a flat out lie.



"These people" are the ones putting in the organizing work 365 days a year. They march when there are 15 people in the streets, not just when there are 1500. You are actually the one co-oping our movement with reformist, incrementalist bullshit that only legitimizes the state.



Correct.

Black Bloc and its ilk have been around for two decades and have accomplished jack and shit. Your only cause is fucking shit up and playing at being a revolutionary. You guys never do anything that would put you at serious risk, legal or physical.

"Substantial blow agains Trump." Yeah I'm sure Trump is real affected by some idiots setting a limo on fire.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
Yeah, I was pro-Nazi punching.

I was very very anti this.

Property destruction is never called for, and now someone's will go through extreme hardship for at least a period of time because he was trying to make a buck.
 

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
hqdefault.jpg


Destroying an icon of extreme wealth and marking it with a traditional American motto isn't counter-productive. It's a substantial blow against Trump and what he stands for, sending the message that many Americans are willing to fight back against the repressions of his government. You are free to take issue with destruction of property, but these actions are not meaningless.

Let me know when this accomplishes anything other than really hurting some poor dudes life and being little more than a distraction that Trump voters can point to as "proof" that we are all just petulant children instead of adults trying to engage in civil discourse.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom