Broad Spectrum
Member
That fact that you speak with such confidence about something you know so little about is honestly a little scary.
Linux is the future of gaming if Microsoft do not do something
- Thread starter OverHeat
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Crayon
Member
I think there might be a technical challenge to getting the kernel anticheat to truly work as intended. I don't fully understand it.
polybius80
Member
there is a nvidia application to control de GPU, it installs with the drivers, I use it to adjust fans when working with AI for hours
this is a screenshot
Mister Wolf
Member
there is a nvidia application to control de GPU, it installs with the drivers, I use it to adjust fans when working with AI for hours
this is a screenshot
Does that app have access to Nvidia Smooth Motion? What about the low lantency setting? What about DLDSR?
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polybius80
Member
I played WoW in linux a couple years ago, haven played in a while, yes even pirate server work I tested like 3 months ago
I dont play genshin impact but here is a guy that explain how to in integrate it to steam(its actually the standard process for non steam apps)
BFME2, I never played that game but here is a guide
but maybe it was fixed by now, its an old game, you can try to integrate in steam like genshin impact
Kacho
Gold Member
polybius80
Member
mine is a bit outdated and usually preffer 60hz for my games but it was added in the 580.82.07
here is a thread where its discussed how well it works I assume is in the same app
about "DLDSR" I am not sure about what it stands for, are you refering to DLSS, frame motion? unless I misunderstand the feature you are asking, it needs to be enabled per game in launch options in proton
If that is what you mean it was added in march
- Added support for NVIDIA Optical Flow API and DLSS 3 Frame Generation.
- Support DLSS in DX11 and DX12 games (guarded by PROTON_ENABLE_NVAPI=1 and dxgi.nvapiHack = False).
here is a more recent changelog
Changelog
Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton
github.com
Mister Wolf
Member
LMFAO at 8:40-9:00
"unfortunately one of my recordings got corrupted"
For something so smooth and easy there sure are plenty hurdles to jump over just to do things you can do on Windows off rip. Dicking around with lossless upscaling and all kinds of other plugins because you don't have access to driver level features AMD and Nvidia addressed already.
Absent DSR/DLDSR support
Hello, these features are several years old by now, yet they are absent on Linux. Is this something the team is, or expects to implement? Thanks in advance.
forums.developer.nvidia.com
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polybius80
Member
oh no! a random user in youtube report a bad bad framerate it surely means everyone has the same problemLMFAO at 8:40-9:00
"unfortunately one of my recordings got corrupted"
Kacho
Gold Member
Everything is "simple" and "fine" until you actually use it. All the little stuff adds up quick.For something so smooth and easy there sure are plenty hurdles to jump over just to do things you can do on Windows off rip. Dicking around with lossless upscaling and all kinds of other plugins because you don't have access to driver level features AMD and Nvidia addressed already.
Absent DSR/DLDSR support
Hello, these features are several years old by now, yet they are absent on Linux. Is this something the team is, or expects to implement? Thanks in advance.
polybius80
Member
yep, that's exactly why I stopped using windows
MrCunningham
Member
Honestly valve has done more for gaming on Linux than any other entity on earth, right now. I have been using Linux as my daily OS since 2007, or so. I started with Ubuntu 7.04 Feisty Fawn; back when I was sick of Windows XP and was looking for something new. I have been flipping through various different Linux distros for the last decade. But I generally just stick with Mint. It seems to just suit my needs best.
I had the first builds of Steam for Linux when it launched in 2013. The earliest versions of Steam on Linux only really supported Ubuntu officially. But it could be used on any distro. It was buggy and would crash. The Steam Linux Runtime in later updates really fixed that issue. I think the first proton betas launched in 2018. Originally, Proton was found in versions of Steam for MacOS, which lead people to believe that the Mac client would have a a windows compatibility layer embedded in it. But it ended up being the Linux Client.
Proton is a branch of DXVK, which is based on Wine. I believe Gabe Newell hired members of the DXVK team to make a custom version for Valve. Even the earliest versions of Steam Play on the Linux client showed a lot of promise. SteamOS became the back bone for the Steamdeck, and will be a crucial part of the latest attempt at a Steam machine.
Valve also invested a lot in the MESA driver stack as well, which really affects AMD cards in a big way. I would say pre-2019 or so, AMD cards had horrible driver support on Linux, while the closed source NVidia drivers were generally much more stable, overall. I am using an AMD graphics card on Linux Mint right now, and it works fairly well. But I will say, it still has some stability issues in comparison to the Nvidia drivers. It also lacks a good settings manager. But even that is being ironed out with newer Kernel updates.
Outside of the Valve influence. I still think Linux as a gaming platform still has some way to go. As there are other clients like the EGS client, games like LOL, WOT, Blizzard software, etc, that just doesn't run well on Linux. Also online gaming is still a bit of a mess with anti-cheat software blocking Linux compatibility layers. Etc. But things are really looking up.
It is interesting how the latest Windows 11 updates have been destroying DX/ OGL/ Vulkan / etc performance overall. Overall Windows 11 has still the best all around compatibility. I wouldn't say dump it altogether, for Linux. But if you have a secondary harddrive, or don;t mind making a Linux partitio, give it a try. Or if you have an older piece of hardware collecting dust, try a linux distro on that.
It is interesting how the Valve proton compatibility layer really destroys Windows 11 in a lot of those Gamers Nexus benchmarks. Really fascinating. Valve has really been killing it on Linux since the release of Proton in 2018.
I had the first builds of Steam for Linux when it launched in 2013. The earliest versions of Steam on Linux only really supported Ubuntu officially. But it could be used on any distro. It was buggy and would crash. The Steam Linux Runtime in later updates really fixed that issue. I think the first proton betas launched in 2018. Originally, Proton was found in versions of Steam for MacOS, which lead people to believe that the Mac client would have a a windows compatibility layer embedded in it. But it ended up being the Linux Client.
Proton is a branch of DXVK, which is based on Wine. I believe Gabe Newell hired members of the DXVK team to make a custom version for Valve. Even the earliest versions of Steam Play on the Linux client showed a lot of promise. SteamOS became the back bone for the Steamdeck, and will be a crucial part of the latest attempt at a Steam machine.
Valve also invested a lot in the MESA driver stack as well, which really affects AMD cards in a big way. I would say pre-2019 or so, AMD cards had horrible driver support on Linux, while the closed source NVidia drivers were generally much more stable, overall. I am using an AMD graphics card on Linux Mint right now, and it works fairly well. But I will say, it still has some stability issues in comparison to the Nvidia drivers. It also lacks a good settings manager. But even that is being ironed out with newer Kernel updates.
Outside of the Valve influence. I still think Linux as a gaming platform still has some way to go. As there are other clients like the EGS client, games like LOL, WOT, Blizzard software, etc, that just doesn't run well on Linux. Also online gaming is still a bit of a mess with anti-cheat software blocking Linux compatibility layers. Etc. But things are really looking up.
It is interesting how the latest Windows 11 updates have been destroying DX/ OGL/ Vulkan / etc performance overall. Overall Windows 11 has still the best all around compatibility. I wouldn't say dump it altogether, for Linux. But if you have a secondary harddrive, or don;t mind making a Linux partitio, give it a try. Or if you have an older piece of hardware collecting dust, try a linux distro on that.
It is interesting how the Valve proton compatibility layer really destroys Windows 11 in a lot of those Gamers Nexus benchmarks. Really fascinating. Valve has really been killing it on Linux since the release of Proton in 2018.
Kacho
Gold Member
I'm noticing that (some) Linux bros are all over the place as far as what they will tolerate. We unironically had a Linux user in this thread act like installing drivers is some unreasonable inconvenience and here you are defending some bullshit that you'd happily rip Windows to shreds for if that's what you had to deal with. You're not serious people.
Codeblew
Member
I played wow several years ago in Ubuntu. I don't remember if it was classic wow or one of their shitty new expansions.
Windows games were playable on Linux far before Steam OS / Proton. Proton makes it easier and better for the end user but lets not pretend that Steam invented playing Windows games on Linux.
It's almost as if different people are different.
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Broad Spectrum
Member
Anyone telling you that you're going to have zero problems is being dishonest. But so are the people saying that it's an unplayable mess for games. Personally, I'm more than willing to put up with some minor inconveniences because it gives me greater control over my system and more privacy while still letting me play the games I want to play.
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MrCunningham
Member
Absolutely not. Wine has been a thing for decades on Linux. There were always offshoots like Play on Linux, WineTricks, Lutris, etc. apple mac users had their own versions of Wine with Crossover, Cedega and Cider, which are still the go-tos for running Windows software on MacOS.
I still remember pre-Linux Steam client, just using Wine to install Steam. Which was a messy thing overall.
DXVK was really the starting point for Proton on Steam. Which saw some real performance gains over OpenGL solutions. Valve incorporating their own Proton compatibility layer does simplify a lot of things in this regard. Even though you still have to sometimes swap between different proton builds to get some software to work.
I would say that Valve just made it easier to get Windows binary games to run on the Linux kernel.
Topher
Identifies as young
That's not what I meant. Proton was certainly built on the work that was done before it, but integrating and improving that work into a cohesive product was an effort in itself. The point was it was a necessary step that took priority over the anti-cheat requirement some games have.
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Kacho
Gold Member
I love how defensive this is.
Don't think I've seen anyone bold enough to make that claim, thankfully. But a lot of the issues seem to be hand waved or minimized while Windows issues are treated like the end of the world. Just my observation.
I've used SteamOS for nearly 2 years now. It's good but I wouldn't call it great just yet. Not in terms of being a full-on proper replacement. It's getting there though.
Codeblew
Member
If acknowledging that different people have different opinions is 'defensive' to you, you must struggle with basic conversation.
Kacho
Gold Member
You're adding nothing to the conversation.
polybius80
Member
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Kacho
Gold Member
Eh. More of an observation.
Calling out jank in the video you posted of a game "working" was fair game btw. I personally wouldn't tolerate that.
Codeblew
Member
I added accuracy. Sorry if that ruined the narrative you were trying to spin.
Edit: Going from 'not serious people' to 'defensive' to 'adding nothing' to a sarcastic emote. Your logical spiral is complete.
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Starbuck2907
Member
We're talking about Linux in the context of PC gaming. Not the various custom versions and rebrands that all have specialized purposes.
I know there is a comparability project (PROTON, WINE, etc) as well as natively coded games for Linux, but those are microscopic. Something like 3% of Steam users run Linux.
I think Linus is great. It just hasn't made serious headway into the desktop gaming scene.
Durin
Member
The main issue I've seen is Windows games can ship signed kernel drivers that plug into a relatively uniform, closed kernel and driver model under secure boot. Linux lacks a standardized model to do signed drivers at the kernel-level, and without that cheaters can run custom kernels to spoof games into not noticing cheats being used.
So either there is going to be some standard model form over time on a few of the bigger gaming distros at least, or some server-side solution making use of advanced AI detection of cheats. As long as the userbase for linux trends positive over time, a solution will happen just like inevitably nvidia driver performance will reach close enough parity.
crackajack
Member
Would not surprise me if Chrome OS itself and its successor, codename Aluminium OS, gains some more marketshare before Linux itself does.
Seems to be already in the education sector, so young people know it, together with Android, the Chrome browser and of course the search engine, the acceptance of google products is probably a lot higher than the Linux "learning curve" nonsense an average Windows user would not want. I guess Google's OS was so far a bit more in competition with MacOS, but with gaming improving it might go against Windows and eat the pie Linux prepared for decades.
Team Andromeda
Member
Yeah, I miss the old Windows myself, Windows started to go downhill and feel less special after Vitsa IMO
Linux is a nightmare to use and so confusing for people like me to use.
pudel
Gold Member
Not really. A lot of people here dont understand why people switching to linux. If you switch from M$ to Google...thats like coming from bad to worse.
MrCunningham
Member
Google has definitely been pushing themselves into Apple territory with Android and Chromebook. But the key difference is that Apple uses custom hardware and software that is tailored for that hardware. Apple builds their own APU's and GPU cores. While Android devices and Chromebooks are a lot more general 'off the shelf' hardware.
Again, not to rain on that parade. But Linux gaming growing the way it has, is mostly Valves doing at this point. In the past, the Linux gaming community was Ryan 'icculus' Gordon and a few smaller port groups that rallied around him. It is funny to think that at some point Epic Games use to advertise Linux support in Unreal/ Unreal Tournament.
From 2013 with the launch of the first Steam Linux client, there was a slow increase of indie developers porting their games to Linux. You had groups like Feral Interactive and Aspyr doing Linux ports as well. Feral was doing some pretty cool things for a while. Some of their Switch ports were based on their Linux ports. Valve really jumped the gun with the early Steam machines. Which were not so popular due to the small amount of Linux Native games available.
The biggest thing was forking DXVK (which was making a lot of noise in the Linux community) as Proton and embedding that into the Linux Steam client. Direct X to Vulkan was such a huge performance boost over the older Direct X to OpenGL Wine wrappers, that in some cases it can give games a performance edge on Linux over Windows. Valve putting a lot of support behind the MESA drivers gave that a boost.
I would say Linux gaming is at a state of clients and compatibility layers at this point. Heroic game launcher is pretty nice client that lets you connect to GOG and EGS to a degree...
Tthere are still issues with running various online games due to anti-cheat software and issues with various different non-Steam game clients. The ecosystem outside of Valves is still a bit rough, is what I am trying to say. But even that is making some strides. Unity engine has Linux support. There are beta builds of Game Maker for Linux. UE5 has Linux support. The dev tools are becoming more Linux friendly too.
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crackajack
Member
That might be, but people switched from Explorer (to Firefox) only to land on Chrome/Chromium/Opera/SRWare/Vivaldi/Brave because... reasons. I never noticed the Chrome stuff, Blink the key?, to run better or more stable than FF/Gecko, but I think that is the perceived advantage why people went that route. I don't know Chrome myself and I would assume google wishes to be further in marketshare already, but some of the numbers one can find make it appear like big growth happened and is likely to continue. Something that Linux itself has not really shown yet, despite some movement due to Steamdeck lately and the Ubuntu phase earlier.Not really. A lot of people here dont understand why people switching to linux. If you switch from M$ to Google...thats like coming from bad to worse.
It might make no sense, but people want just works systems and drowning them with choice is just noise, and "true" linux might just get the leftovers if people might adopt Chrom OS.
I counted Valve as part of Linux, their work is making Steam stuff compatible to every Linux and not some special tool only one distro, their own, would adopt. Even the Linuxfromscratch guys have Steam in their gaming manuals...
...Without Valve starting their "fine I'll do it myself" move, Linux would not have made much if any progress. Took them ages to get there, but they really push through.
rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
How many times was posted here in the thread about gaming outside Steam being a BIG thing and even on Steam the amount of games with proton platinum status is far from 100%??
You also have to adjust settings on Linux but some important settings like 16x AF, anti lag, reflex, integer scaling, DLSS latest preset, etc on Nvidia/Radeon panels don't exist because the freaking control panels don't even exist.
Steam does the exactly same thing on Windows.
And hope it works??? Natively on Windows vs freaking proton compatibility gambling on Linux?? Very ironic and funny.
In your dream old games in general requires more work on Windows than on Linux.
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Ready the conversation, for fuck sake. No one said those games don't work on Linux.
there is a nvidia application to control de GPU, it installs with the drivers, I use it to adjust fans when working with AI for hours
this is a screenshot
This "pathetic" control panel has only a very limited anti aliasing settings.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Its absurd
mine is a bit outdated and usually preffer 60hz for my games but it was added in the 580.82.07
here is a thread where its discussed how well it works I assume is in the same app
about "DLDSR" I am not sure about what it stands for, are you refering to DLSS, frame motion? unless I misunderstand the feature you are asking, it needs to be enabled per game in launch options in proton
If that is what you mean it was added in march
- Added support for NVIDIA Optical Flow API and DLSS 3 Frame Generation.
- Support DLSS in DX11 and DX12 games (guarded by PROTON_ENABLE_NVAPI=1 and dxgi.nvapiHack = False).
here is a more recent changelog
Changelog
Compatibility tool for Steam Play based on Wine and additional components - ValveSoftware/Proton
DSR and Its successor DLDSR is downsampling the resolution. How do you guys go about doing it on Linux?
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JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Right...because hardware makers make the best versions of their software. That is really brilliant thinking right there.
Please tell me how many hardware buyers buy Asus products because they love Armory Crate or Gigabytes software. Don't even get me started on RGB software.
Also, why do so many people use things like NVcleaninstall?
By all means, lets not pretend that there isn't a ton of community developed software that isn't drastically superior to what the companies provide.
Having said all of that....your point isn't completely unwarranted, but let's please not act like somehow Adrenalin or the nvidia app is some sort of bastion of perfection.
In fact, I use DLSS Swapper as I find it far more reliable than the nvidia app when it comes to injecting the latest DLSS files into games.
Mister Wolf
Member
Im using Armory Crate with my Xbox ROG Ally X. They just added a feature to disable CPU cores so the GPU can clock higher. I would be a fool to load Linux on this thing and lose access to that and AMD Adrenalin. Ive used SteamOS. Its Big Picture mode. Nothing to write home about, while losing great AMD driver level features, access to games, running into compatibility issues, etc. A massive "L".
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rodrigolfp
Haptic Gamepads 4 Life
Good thing no one was stupid enough to make this claim so far.
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
On a desktop PC, you'd have an argument, but holy jesus batman you're making the argument that Windows for a handheld is better. Using Windows instead of Bazzite SteamOS on a handheld is beyond fucking stupid. there is no way to say that, unless you are playing the anti-cheat games.
SteamOS/Bazzite pretty much beats down windows in pretty much every category from performance, 1% lows and absolutely blows the hinges off of windows in terms of battery life.
I mean...jesus fucking christ, unless WItcher 3 is your favorite game (its actually mine FYI!)
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Broad Spectrum
Member
Not a fool. You'd get better performance in Linux:
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Mister Wolf
Member
In that same video Linux bugged out trying to run Witcher 3. Compatability issue. I ran into an issue myself with Shadow Labyrinth on SteamOS. Also the performance uplift for what I stand to lose is miniscule.
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pudel
Gold Member
Armory Crate is the most bloated, broken and system evasive piece of shit software you could ever run on yr machine. Congratulation!
Mister Wolf
Member
Armory Crate is the most bloated, broken and system evasive piece of shit software you could ever run on yr machine. Congratulation!
As opposed to losing all that it provides switching to Linux. Genius.
pudel
Gold Member
Yeah, who doesnt like to make his whole pc slower and more crash prone. There are lots of lightweight opensource alternatives for this crap bloatware...even for windows. But you do you, mate!
Mister Wolf
Member
pudel
Gold Member
You are not realizing anything...sorry!
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I hope Linux continues to evolve at a super fast rate. Some serious gaming OS competition would be awesome.
I hardly use my gaming PCs for office work so let me strip all that back to the bare minimum.
I hardly use my gaming PCs for office work so let me strip all that back to the bare minimum.
Wolzard
Member
One thing that happens in Linux is that some things aren't user-friendly; they require someone with a bit more knowledge.
Nvidia Smooth Motion requires a setting in the system environment variable to function.
Reflex works natively via Proton.
DLDSR requires using GameScope and adding some variables.
At least Nvidia has a control panel, you can make some adjustments like resolution, colors, monitors, and other basic functions. That's better than AMD, which doesn't even have one, although many of the features that exist in Adrenaline are being implemented directly in SteamOS.
Since you have Valve engineers working on Nvidia's open-source driver, NVK, I assume the goal is for SteamOS to cover everything for both GPUs.
Wolzard
Member
When people say that Linux is the future, it's probably because there's a lot of effort currently being put into making that happen. There's motivation to improve things.
In Windows, the general feeling is one of stagnation or, even worse, a worsening of the status quo. And Microsoft doesn't seem confident in improving this situation.
Gaming on Linux isn't perfect, so much so that I have a dedicated machine running Windows so I can play games and enjoy everything my OLED TV has to offer with minimal effort. At the same time, I have another PC running Linux, which I use for internet browsing, studying, and playing some games that require a keyboard and mouse. On that PC, I feel more comfortable tinkering with everything, breaking the system, and completely reinstalling the OS. I also have a work laptop, where I also use Linux, but on a company-prepared distribution without root access.
So I understand the reluctance to play games on Linux. It's a somewhat painful step, but in a way rewarding. However, this varies from person to person, if you only have one PC, it might be a risky bet. But I always say that you should at least try it to get the real experience. Each person knows what's best for them, so it's better to have the real experience than to be guided by others.
In Windows, the general feeling is one of stagnation or, even worse, a worsening of the status quo. And Microsoft doesn't seem confident in improving this situation.
Gaming on Linux isn't perfect, so much so that I have a dedicated machine running Windows so I can play games and enjoy everything my OLED TV has to offer with minimal effort. At the same time, I have another PC running Linux, which I use for internet browsing, studying, and playing some games that require a keyboard and mouse. On that PC, I feel more comfortable tinkering with everything, breaking the system, and completely reinstalling the OS. I also have a work laptop, where I also use Linux, but on a company-prepared distribution without root access.
So I understand the reluctance to play games on Linux. It's a somewhat painful step, but in a way rewarding. However, this varies from person to person, if you only have one PC, it might be a risky bet. But I always say that you should at least try it to get the real experience. Each person knows what's best for them, so it's better to have the real experience than to be guided by others.
alabtrosMyster
Member
This is because Safari, Chrome and Edge are all based on KHTML, which is the original browser that used the webkit engine.
The old when the old IE was taken behind the shed to be shot they burried the rendering engine with it.
I think KHTML was dead a long long time ago, but its engine lives on.
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alabtrosMyster
Member
You're just trying to play victim because people don't do or say exactly as you please.
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