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[Keihart]

Instead of giving them jail time, they should be sentenced to hard labor on some countryside with minimun wage and no access to computers or internet. That would be fun and maybe educational.

 

[Walpurgis]

That's definitely not a reason he deserves what has happened to him however. You can't fix perceived corruption with blatant crime.

I agree. They went way too far and hurt his family. If they wanted to get back at Smedley for what he did, they could have stuck to less personal things like DDOSing (although that would hurt the players too).

 

[Keihart]

What many of you don't seem to understand is this: In the Scandinavian countries, which has the lowest reoffending rate in the world, a sentence isn't handed out for the sake of the victim. It's for the sake of the offender. The idea is that, if someone has done something bad, they need to be put on the right course as quickly as possible.

The absolute worst way to achieve this is locking them up with a bunch of other people who have done bad stuff, so it's seen as a last resort. Even when people are locked up, the prison should be made to resemble the outside world as much as possible. That means both responsibilities and freedoms, room for jobs and hobbies, and yes, a prison cell that, to many outsiders, looks way too much like a dorm room or small apartment.

You may want a hard sentence, but it has been proved time and time again that longer sentences increases reoffending rates, and do next to nothing to deter crime. It just doesn't work. It's not a matter of opinion, it's a demonstrable fact. If a society wants to lessen crime, it needs to treat its criminals well, and not punish them so much as rehabilitate them. Part of that rehabilitation could be therapy, meeting the victims they've hurt, and living in a controlled environment(prison) for a while to get their life back on track.

I say this based on numerous studies. Just Google a bit before you post, and you will hopefully realise that, although not very satisfying for the victim, this system is the best solution we know of for society as a whole.

That's a lot of money though.

 

[mgs2master2]

So few points about Kivimäki. He was facing a max sentence, which is extremely rare in Finland. He got off because he was 15 at the time, and under Finnish law a person under 18 years doesn't get a prison sentence unless there are heavy reasons. He was a first timer, so the court played it safe. Also in that case MIT nor others had any demands. The sentence had nothing to do with psn or swatting or doxxing, it was about vcrrdit cards and adobe cloudflare vulnerabilities with a .h file vulnerability.

Most likely prosecutor will appeal, so Kivimäki might face prison time for these crimes. Alas there are multiple ongoing investigations ongoing against him, so he will go to jail next time he's in court.

What artsi has said in this topic is true, apart from a minor court process mistake. As I said in other thread, I have the full sentence and I am a nearly graduated lawyer in Finland, so if you have questions, shoot away.

Seriously, Don't source stuff to Kotaku about nongaming stuff.

quoting for the new page if people still havent read it

 

[Dreamwriter]

quoting for the new page if people still havent read it

But that quote still doesn't explain a complete lack of sentence for an already repeat offender convicted of thousands of crimes. I'm not saying he necessarily deserves prison, but to have no punishment at all? "Boys will be boys!"

 

[artsi]

This message sponsored by the Finnish justice system.

Eh, you honestly think they wouldn't do any of this if Kivimäki got a tougher sentence?
It's not him doing this but the ones that have actually got free passes so far, by not getting caught.

But that quote still doesn't explain a complete lack of sentence for an already repeat offender convicted of thousands of crimes. I'm not saying he necessarily deserves prison, but to have no punishment at all? "Boys will be boys!"

But he did, from the second sentence forward. Even the 2 years conditional is pretty tough for something like this here.
Law determines what kind of sentence can be given, and it's not like our laws would be rewritten to suit this particular situation, which isn't really even news here.

 

[Sky Chief]

People who engage in such antisocial behavior should not be able to continue to do as they please within our open society until they have shown that they have reformed. I'm not advocating they be locked up in a horrible prison and punished but this just makes logical sense. Clearly the sentence he received has just emboldened him and his friends and this is obvious from their statements.

Regardless, had he received a very strong sentence it's likely that LS would be out on the attack in protest. There is no easy solution here.

 

[demigod]

Well I was able to log on 30mins ago. Thank god this attack lasted less than yesterday. Yesterday's was over 12hours.

 

[AYF 001]

You need a legal dictionary: Suspending a sentence prior to the execution means that a judge has decided on a sentence, but has refrained from actually carrying it out. And I was responding to your point that even if this is the maximum sentence given, how do we know the outcome before it is started? That point assumes he receives no more sentences.

Ok, so I went to a legal dictionary, and the current sentence is basically probation. However, unlike what other people are saying, he isn't "getting away with it". If he commits any sort of offense during that time period, he will receive the full sentence. And for a lot of people, it can be just like getting a needle: the imagined pain of it being worse than the actual pain being a deterrent to going there.

At the end of the day, what's more important? That "he gets punished cuz he deserves it", or that he doesn't commit any more crimes? Because a lot of people here seem to think the two always go hand-in-hand, and the statistics show that mindset isn't correct at all.

 

[Ayt]

But that quote still doesn't explain a complete lack of sentence for an already repeat offender convicted of thousands of crimes. I'm not saying he necessarily deserves prison, but to have no punishment at all? "Boys will be boys!"

He's not a repeat offender at this point because he was convicted for all those crimes at the same trial. If he faces trial for the swatting, bomb threat, and whatever else he may have done he'd be considered a repeat offender at that point because of this sentence.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

Wait, is this right? He gets a government job as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIgpR7Zg_wg

 

[>-Baron-Spamedi-<]

They're not given free passes. They won't be saying that if they're caught and given probation. Their bravado is from being anonymous. They're still fearful of being caught. If they weren't fearful they would give their names.

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear.

Weren't you the one in the other thread who was trying to claim punishment does not act as a deterrent?
Inconsistent much?

If it's not a deterrent then why are they fearful of getting caught?


Here's an article from the UK showing that community service style sentences AND 2-4 year prison sentences are BOTH more effective than 1-2 year sentences. Proving that dealing with criminals and criminal behaviour is way more complicated than just adopting a softly softly 'cuddle a criminal' approach.
It also proves that prison, in cases that deserve it, is not necessarily a barrier to rehabiliation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/reoffending-rate-increases-8475391.html

 

[Liberty4all]

Wait, is this right? He gets a government job as well?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIgpR7Zg_wg

It was a suspended sentence so he serves no time.

 

[Andronicus]

reading the shit that happened to smed pisseed me off.

so where are the people who were trying to paint him as a teen thats made a few mistakes & should be given another chance? Lol. like i said, jail time, jail time, jail time. They think shit is a game & when they have no real punishment they wont stop.

 

[Valnen]

You guys get real salty at non punishment based justice systems dont you?

Considering it will lead to the little monster victimizing people further in the future, yes.

 

[>-Baron-Spamedi-<]

My personal feeling is that two years community service (rather than just a suspended sentence) with mandatory attendance of a rehabilitation programme, plus a total of four years without computer access would have been appropriate for what he has been currently convicted of.


If the harrassment stuff and swatting is proven I would give him jail time.

If the bomb threat is proven he should receive a hefty sentence.
In the UK we have just lost 30 people to a terrorist in Tunisia.
People who are going to treat the fear and disruption this sort of idiocy causes like some kind of joke deserve everything they get. The last thing we need is security and law enforcement services wasting their time and energy on these morons when they could be spending that time stopping real criminals and real terrorists.

 

[MillionStabs]

reading the shit that happened to smed pisseed me off.

so where are the people who were trying to paint him as a teen thats made a few mistakes & should be given another chance? Lol. like i said, jail time, jail time, jail time. They think shit is a game & when they have no real punishment they wont stop.

Not just "a few mistakes" Over 50k offences is a huge deal, and of course they think they're untouchable when they aren't even sent to jail. The whole ordeal just empowers them. and it sucks ass.

 

[mightynine]

If you're going to sentence him to two years, 1 year in prison, 1 year probation.

I'm fine with the idea of rehab, but he's caused people problems in life that go far beyond not being able to log in to PSN/XBL, he's earned some inconvenience of his.

 

[aeolist]

Considering it will lead to the little monster victimizing people further in the future, yes.

iirc they placed pretty severe restrictions on his computer and internet use, so no

anything else? or is it just that your desire to inflict suffering hasn't been sated?

 

[Jams775]

I've been thinking about this for a while and I'm undecided as to the probation. But I feel like there needs to be a new set of standard restrictions for people who commit cyber crimes.

The minimum being something like not being allowed to use advanced technology like smart devices, computers and internet use for between 10 years to life. Being connected to the internet is a privilege in some ways and that should be taken away if you abuse it. If you get caught buying or using a device or the internet (say in a cafe) then you serve 1 month to a year in jail and are fined something a person can afford to pay.

I was thinking that maybe that these restrictions should apply to your household too so you can't have registered internet in your house at all, family be dammed.That'd be a pretty good deterrent from a social standpoint. Maybe then parents would keep a better eye on their kids or risk losing all their internet and smart device usage.

edit:
Also in a work environment the bosses and manager would need to know the person is not allowed computer use and if they're caught using they are to be reported or the company risks getting fined themselves.

I think something like that would be an appropriate baseline that doesn't throw somebody in with hardened criminals but is pretty life restricting enough to make a person think twice.

 

[AkuMifune]

iirc they placed pretty severe restrictions on his computer and internet use, so no

anything else? or is it just that your desire to inflict suffering hasn't been sated?

That's pretty disgusting they placed severe restrictions on his computer. I heard they may actually slap him on the wrist. That kind of violent blood lust has no place in a fair judicial system. Barbarians.

 

[Kirlia]

iirc they placed pretty severe restrictions on his computer and internet use, so no

anything else? or is it just that your desire to inflict suffering hasn't been sated?

I don't think "severe restrictions on his computer and internet use" are going to stop him.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Probation of two years is a joke. It should be like ten years or, you know, life. This isn't like a DUI or getting into a street fight where it was a lapse of judgement or mistake. This is a targeted, premeditated attack on an individual.

 

[Chaos2Frozen]

It was a suspended sentence so he serves no time.

What about getting a government Job? Is that part true?

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

The game industry and the FBI should lay a trap for these guys.

 

[HarryDemeanor]

The game industry and the FBI should lay a trap for these guys.

Just make a trap like this and write "Xbox Live and PSN Servers Inside!"

 

[Moonstone]

What about getting a government Job? Is that part true?

I don't think so. As far as I understood it,t's a part of his probatation that he has to speak out against cybercrimes at schools or something like this.

 

[charsace]

He should have been banned from any type of electronic use for like 5 to 10 years if he isn't getting jail time.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

Smedley twitter removed? Can't find it anywhere