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[PauloRoberto]

I believe its the fourth or fifth time Sony explain the same strategy for GaaS titles... and evey time it's the same moot discussion...

 

[Angry_Megalodon]

Agree with you, also Nintendo had be warning the videogame industry for years about this issue, almost no one listened and now they are starting to look like geniuses and their strategies are paying off. Sony and Microsoft using the same strategies that sooner or later lead to release the games everywhere due the high cost of production and only have 1 big exclusive game per studio every Gen. It’s not sustainable anymore for the majority of cases…

Nintendo was "the brain of the beast" for generations, till they were pushed out of the race and now they preach the opposite. Also, there's only one big Zelda and one big Mario per generation, these games are as AAA as everyone else.

The Nintendo model can't be replicated because it's based on a legacy maintained by exclusivity and not deviating from its course. So, no matter how many "warnings" they do, Sony and MS have to compete by their own conditions.

 

[LordOcidax]

Nintendo was "the brain of the beast" for generations, till they were pushed out of the race and now they preach the opposite. Also, there's only one big Zelda and one big Mario per generation, these games are as AAA as everyone else.

The Nintendo model can't be replicated because it's based on a legacy maintained by exclusivity and not deviating from its course. So, no matter how many "warnings" they do, Sony and MS have to compete by their own conditions.

In those generations that model was profitable, they saw that the increase in development costs was going to be exponential in the future and changed their approach when it comes to development budget and strategies, i don’t think they were pushed out, they still competing in the same market as Sony and Microsoft… Sony saying that Nintendo is not their competition is kinda no sense.

 

[Topher]

In those generations that model was profitable, they saw that the increase in development costs was going to be exponential in the future and changed their approach when it comes to development budget and strategies, i don’t think they were pushed out, they still competing in the same market as Sony and Microsoft… Sony saying that Nintendo is not their competition is kinda no sense.

PlayStation/Xbox are not competing with Nintendo in the vast majority of games that are available.

Here are the 2023 top sellers....

 

[Sooner]

People getting excited until they realize "multiple platforms" just means PlayStation and PC. And PC day one is just for online multi-player games.

 

[LordOcidax]

PlayStation/Xbox are not competing with Nintendo in the vast majority of games that are available.

Here are the 2023 top sellers....

Because those games are not available on the Switch due to hardware capabilities, that’s another topic… And the games that are available on the 3 systems like Howard Legacy, the Lego Games, even the Fifas, NBA 2Ks, The Witcher 3 put great numbers on the Switch, etc etc are doing better than the Xbox Version that is considered competition. So, of course they are competing in the same market.

 

[BlackTron]

If Switch 2 stalls in sales at all, you'll see Nintendo even do this. Imagine what they would sell on PC in China alone.

Nintendo has had lagging sales before, at multiple points of history, yet they never pulled their pants down before, even if it meant tanking an entire gen.

 

[Topher]

Because those games are not available on the Switch due to hardware capabilities, that’s another topic… And the games that are available on the 3 systems like Howard Legacy, the Lego Games, even the Fifas, NBA 2Ks, The Witcher 3 put great numbers on the Switch, etc etc are doing better than the Xbox Version that is considered competition. So, of course they are competing in the same market.

The hardware limitations are among the reasons they are not competing directly. Switch cannot play all the same games that are on PS5 and XS and the ones that can are stripped down versions. So right off the bat a significant chunk of the competition is removed.

You are pointing to a small number of franchises and suggesting they are representative of competition across the board when that is just not the case. Yes, there is some overlap between Xbox/PlayStation and Switch so there is a fraction of the competition, but not enough to say Switch competes with Xbox/PlayStation at the same level as Xbox and PlayStation compete with each other. Not even close.

 

[LordOcidax]

Nintendo has had lagging sales before, at multiple points of history, yet they never pulled their pants down before, even if it meant tanking an entire gen.

If that remotely happens which i doubt… Nintendo is going to do the same Wii U to Switch 1 move again, release a new console in 4-5 years. Some people tends to forget how big the Nintendo war chest is.

 

[LordOcidax]

The hardware limitations are among the reasons they are not competing directly. Switch cannot play all the same games that are on PS5 and XS and the ones that can are stripped down versions. So right off the bat a significant chunk of the competition is removed.

You are pointing to a small number of franchises and suggesting they are representative of competition across the board when that is just not the case. Yes, there is some overlap between Xbox/PlayStation and Switch so there is a fraction of the competition, but not enough to say Switch competes with Xbox/PlayStation at the same level as Xbox and PlayStation compete with each other. Not even close.

Still competing, just different approaches… BTW, like i said before the games that are available in the 3 platforms are doing better on the Switch than on Xbox, so that is not a small fraction, even games like Minecraft is doing better on the Switch (Based in the information that we have from the UK/Europe/Japan markets that give us the splits) When the Switch 2 comes out, and all the 3 systems receive the same games in the dame date, you are going to be surprised.

 

[Blood Borne]

I don’t agree with that at all, most of my favourite games are multiplatform.

Exclusive doesn’t mean the game is automatically better.

I disagree.
If you compile a list of best games ever made, you’ll see that most of them were exclusive at the time of their release.

 

[LordOcidax]

I disagree.
If you compile a list of best games ever made, you’ll see that most of them were exclusive at the time of their release.

If you make a list of 10 best games ever, yes, if you make a list of the 100 best games ever, there are more non exclusives games there… And remember that all of those lists are subjectives. Some of my favorites games are multi platform too.

 

[Aguero9320]

People getting excited until they realize "multiple platforms" just means PlayStation and PC. And PC day one is just for online multi-player games.

For now...

What's that line people use incessantly here in relation to Microsoft about boiling frogs?
You're in the same pot, just slightly behind in the heating process.

 

[Topher]

Still competing, just different approaches… BTW, like i said before the games that are available in the 3 platforms are doing better on the Switch than on Xbox, so that is not a small fraction, even games like Minecraft is doing better on the Switch (Based in the information that we have from the UK/Europe/Japan markets that give us the splits) When the Switch 2 comes out, and all the 3 systems receive the same games in the dame date, you are going to be surprised.

If you want to believe that the games that are popular on Xbox are the same games that drives Switch sales then I don't know what to tell you except you are wrong. Since you ware just going to ignore the best sellers list the there isn't much to discuss.

If Switch 2 has the same games as PS and Xbox then yes, they will be in direct competition. That's exactly my point.

 

[LordOcidax]

If you want to believe that the games that are popular on Xbox are the same games that drives Switch sales then I don't know what to tell you except you are wrong. Since you ware just going to ignore the best sellers list the there isn't much to discuss.

If Switch 2 has the same games as PS and Xbox then yes, they will be in direct competition. That's exactly my point.

I never talked about what drives sales to any console, i am talking about splits per system sales which is a fact… and you are forgetting that those lists doesn’t include digital sales from Nintendo.

 

[Topher]

I never talked about what drives sales to any console, i am talking about splits per system sales which is a fact… and you are forgetting that those lists doesn’t include digital sales from Nintendo.

What are you basing "splits per system" on? If that's the basis of your entire argument then need to see this data.

 

[thismeinteil]

Sounds perfect. Xbox migrates into a PC. Everything comes to PC eventually. Xbox games going to PS. The death of exclusives is near.

If Switch 2 stalls in sales at all, you'll see Nintendo even do this. Imagine what they would sell on PC in China alone.

Please, this is just straight hopium from Xbox fans who are watching their console brand slowly die because of MS's poor decisions and then killing their own exclusives during the PS4 gen, most of which have been mediocre.

Sony is going to keep the same strategy. GAAS will release Day 1 on PS and PC, maybe Switch 2 in the future. Exclusives wil stay on PS for about a year before migrating to PC, with maybe a few hitting Switch 2 if that HW is a huge success and the specific game makes sense. Maybe that window closes to 6-8 months, but if Sony is smart, they'll keep it to at least around a year.

Also, I think Nintendo will have to be near death before they would ever consider releasing their exclusives on other platforms. And even if that happened, expect it to be PS and PC. Xbox will be complete irrelevant at that point. It already pretty much is when it comes to SW sales. GamePass boosting those sales and all.

 

[LordOcidax]

What are you basing "splits per system" on?

Here’s an infographic from 2023, and take into account that the Switch received less third party tittles. Graphs thanks to IB. Its not an small portion as you think. And its going to be bigger for Switch 2 due to bigger third party support.

 

[Topher]

Here’s an infographic from 2023, and take into account that the Switch received less third party tittles. Graphs thanks to IB. Its not an small portion as you think.

This proves my point. Switch receives less third party titles because Switch is dominated by first party (as well as technical limitations) which is what the best sellers list shows. These graphs back this up as well. The largest non-Nintendo section for Switch is "Others" whereas Xbox and PS third party support is much broader and diversified. I mean just look at the small tendrils there from EA, Activision, Take Two to Nintendo vs what they are for Xbox/PS. Ubisoft seems to be the largest third party Switch supporters which should be shock since their Mario + Rabbids is on that best seller list and obviously not on Xbox or Nintendo at all. That overlap between Nintendo and Xbox/PS is very small as is the level of direct competition. This really shouldn't be a shock. Nintendo marches to an entirely difference cadence than Xbox and PlayStation.

 

[LordOcidax]

This proves my point. Switch receives less third party titles because Switch is dominated by first party (as well as technical limitations) which is what the best sellers list shows. These graphs back this up as well. The largest non-Nintendo section for Switch is "Others" whereas Xbox and PS third party support is much broader and diversified. I mean just look at the small tendrils there from EA, Activision, Take Two to Nintendo vs what they are for Xbox/PS. Ubisoft seems to be the largest third party Switch supporters which should be shock since their Mario + Rabbids is on that best seller list and obviously not on Xbox or Nintendo at all. That overlap between Nintendo and Xbox/PS is very small as is the level of direct competition. This really shouldn't be a shock. Nintendo marches to an entirely difference cadence than Xbox and PlayStation.

18% vs 25% without the big hitters… That’s not an small fraction no matter what you say. Is a fact. And is going to go UP with the Switch 2 because is going to eat shares from both competitors. So, in fact they are competing. That’s my whole point. And Sony it’s going to be the more affected.

 

[Topher]

18% vs 25% without the big hitters… That’s not an small fraction no matter what you say. Is a fact. And is going to go UP with the Switch 2 because is going to eat shares from both competitors. So, in fact they are competing. That’s my whole point.

The fact is Switch, with more than three times the install base as Xbox, sells less third party software than Xbox. One would think that an install base that much larger would have more unit sales. Nope. Not for Nintendo. If Nintendo were in direct competition with Xbox and PS then they would have a larger chunk of that pie than even PlayStation. Clearly, that's why whoever created those pie charts included one without Nintendo. Nintendo is the outlier. Again, Switch is dominated by first party sales. Xbox and PlayStation are not. Exactly why I posted the best sellers lists for all three in the first place. The games that are popular on Switch (except for a rare exception in Hogwarts) do not exist on Xbox and PlayStation. The level of competition is minor.

 

[noob smokes]

Does sony even make money from the pc ports other than hd2 everything else pretty much flopped

Xbox going 3rd party makes sense cuz theyll make bundles of cash off sony & nintendo gamers from the abk games

 

[LordOcidax]

Does sony even make money from the pc ports other than hd2 everything else pretty much flopped

Xbox going 3rd party makes sense cuz theyll make bundles of cash off sony & nintendo gamers from the abk games

Probably yes, PS4 and PS5 are X86 based systems, so the ports shouldn’t be that expensive and they brought a team to do that job, i don’t think they need to sell millions to be profitable.

 

[LordOcidax]

The fact is Switch, with more than three times the install base as Xbox, sells less third party software than Xbox. One would think that an install base that much larger would have more unit sales. Nope. Not for Nintendo. If Nintendo were in direct competition with Xbox and PS then they would have a larger chunk of that pie than even PlayStation. Clearly, that's why whoever created those pie charts included one without Nintendo. Nintendo is the outlier. Again, Switch is dominated by first party sales. Xbox and PlayStation are not. Exactly why I posted the best sellers lists for all three in the first place. The games that are popular on Switch (except for a rare exception in Hogwarts) do not exist on Xbox and PlayStation. The level of competition is minor.

That’s the result of receiving less ports as i stated before, but that doesn’t means they are not competing for revanue in the same market. Even with less third party games and without the big sellers is almost on par with Xbox.

 

[RoboFu]

So everyone will up on the switch2 before everyone goes third party.

 

[SHA]

Sony is already 2 steps behind in gaas anyway.

 

[Topher]

That’s the result of receiving less ports as i stated before, but that doesn’t means they are not competing for revanue in the same market.

Receiving fewer ports means less direct competition either way. Competing in the "same market" is a broad a statement. EA, Take Two, Capcom and Square Enix are all competing in the same market as well. So what?

Even with less third party games and without the big sellers is almost on par with Xbox.

Seven points less with over three times the install base. We've been over this.

 

[LordOcidax]

Receiving fewer ports means less direct competition either way. Competing in the "same market" is a broad a statement. EA, Take Two, Capcom and Square Enix are all competing in the same market as well. So what?



Seven points less with over three times the install base. We've been over this.

So according to your logic, when Xbox drop to third place, is not a competition anymore for Sony?

 

[HerjansEagleFeeder]

Each time I release GaaS, more people show interest than with some of the Sony titles. Bloodborne Gacha when?

 

[IntentionalPun]

Literally was part of the investor presentation years ago when they defined there GAAS strategy to say exactly this.

 

[LordOcidax]

Double post

 

[Topher]

So according to your logic, when Xbox drop to third place, is not a competition anymore for Sony?

No, that's not my logic at all.

 

[bender]

Topher hates Nintendo, confirmed.

 

[Zathalus]

SP should be locked to PS platforms indefinitely. Its not like they are lighting the charts on Steam

To answe the bolded: to keep the "strategic" long term value of your brand. You want to keep customers in your system not devalue your brand by offering your product everywhere.

You do realise that these two takes contradict each other right?

 

[Fess]

Still though, the major single player games will still have their exclusivity period before migrating to PC.

And because of that they will sell less from decreased hype on the second release and will still have to deal with increased negativity around the initial release from the usual exclusivity talks. It’s just how it is now.

Personally I feel like I lose everytime now with Playstation ”exclusives”. They’ve broken the spell on first party games when they started doing ports. On one hand I’m glad that the ports are there. On the other hand they often push me into a scenario where I either play day 1 on console even though I rather play on PC, or has to wait on the PC release and might have the story spoiled online, or will double dip and pay for it twice to not miss out on PC upgrades.

How are the rest of you PS+PC gamers dealing with the deliberate PC delays?

 

[DragonNCM]

Didn't know uncle Phil is............Nostradamus

 

[Giallo Corsa]

Didn't know uncle Phil is............Nostradamus

Quasimodo you mean

 

[SweetTooth]

You do realise that these two takes contradict each other right?

How?

 

[Zathalus]

How?

- Games are not lighting charts on fire when released on Steam.
- Not having console exclusives is going to lead to players leaving your ecosystem to Steam.
- But the games are not lighting the charts on fire when released on Steam?

So you’re stating that players will leave PlayStation because of the lack of value in the brand. Since I assume you are worried these players are then migrating to Steam where the PS games are doing alright but not selling massively. So are players leaving PS because the exclusives that they love are no longer exclusive so that they primarily game on pc… where they no longer want to play the exclusives they love?

Sure you can say long term but it has been over 4 years and there is no major revenue or player base loss for PS, and the PS games on PC are not massively increasing in numbers sold. This does imply that PS exclusives on PC are not really that much of a factor for most gamers.

People have preferences and a two or three games per year is hardly going to change that.

 

[SweetTooth]

Its simple idea really, the moment you start releasing your games everywhere..you lose customers.

Just look how fast Xbox declined, also imagined Nintendo started releasing Mario and Zelda everywhere... not a single soul will ever think to get an underpowered Nintendo device.

Same logic applies to Playstation.

 

[Zathalus]

Its simple idea really, the moment you start releasing your games everywhere..you lose customers.

Just look how fast Xbox declined, also imagined Nintendo started releasing Mario and Zelda everywhere... not a single soul will ever think to get an underpowered Nintendo device.

Same logic applies to Playstation.

PlayStation is not loosing customers. MAU for the past year is the highest it has ever been.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Its simple idea really, the moment you start releasing your games everywhere..you lose customers.

Just look how fast Xbox declined, also imagined Nintendo started releasing Mario and Zelda everywhere... not a single soul will ever think to get an underpowered Nintendo device.

Same logic applies to Playstation.

A customer buying games on PC…is a customer.

Many of whom weren’t customers before you released your games on PC.

There really are only customers gained, not lost. At worst you have a small percentage who decide to completely switch over to Pc and so you lose some 3rd party cut sales but there’s little evidence that number is all that significant. In fact it’s kind of far fetched to think that’s significant.

Many of the people who would stop buying PlayStation hardware were only buying exclusives anyways.

 

[apocaliptic]

They did it with that game, can't even remember the name right now and we all know how it went lol

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Because those games are not available on the Switch due to hardware capabilities, that’s another topic… And the games that are available on the 3 systems like Howard Legacy, the Lego Games, even the Fifas, NBA 2Ks, The Witcher 3 put great numbers on the Switch, etc etc are doing better than the Xbox Version that is considered competition. So, of course they are competing in the same market.

These third party games sell better on Switch than Xbox?

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

I disagree.
If you compile a list of best games ever made, you’ll see that most of them were exclusive at the time of their release.

If you compile a list of best games ever made in the last 10 years, most would be multiplatform.

 

[SweetTooth]

A customer buying games on PC…is a customer.

Many of whom weren’t customers before you released your games on PC.

There really are only customers gained, not lost. At worst you have a small percentage who decide to completely switch over to Pc and so you lose some 3rd party cut sales but there’s little evidence that number is all that significant. In fact it’s kind of far fetched to think that’s significant.

Many of the people who would stop buying PlayStation hardware were only buying exclusives anyways.

So are you saying Nintendo should port their games everywhere and won't be affected by doing so?

 

[Zathalus]

So are you saying Nintendo should port their games everywhere and won't be affected by doing so?

Nope, consoles are in direct competition with each other, because they are basically the same user experience between them (obviously Switch has the handheld mode).

Nintendo can probably port Switch games to PC and not really impact their core business though.

 

[Panajev2001a]

A customer buying games on PC…is a customer.

Many of whom weren’t customers before you released your games on PC.

There really are only customers gained, not lost. At worst you have a small percentage who decide to completely switch over to Pc and so you lose some 3rd party cut sales but there’s little evidence that number is all that significant. In fact it’s kind of far fetched to think that’s significant.

Many of the people who would stop buying PlayStation hardware were only buying exclusives anyways.

You lose third party games cut AND likely any chance of signing them up to services like PSN+ reliably. It is super shortsighted.

There are two companies really pushing people for day one multiplatform games from everyone including Sony… it is Microsoft and Valve… and understandably so .

 

[IntentionalPun]

You lose third party games cut AND likely any chance of signing them up to services like PSN+ reliably. It is super shortsighted.

There are two companies really pushing people for day one multiplatform games from everyone including Sony… it is Microsoft and Valve… and understandably so .

Again y’all are just going on this idea that droves of people leave PlayStation to go play on PC and I’m not just buying it.

You can have SOME of that going on but still profit from the strategy as you have loads of people who wouldn’t buy a console now giving you money for games.

Sony being somewhat protectionist with single player games helps protect the console ecosystem as well.

It’s about a balance between those 2 things PLUS the idea that all of these people are still customers of Sony’s.

It’s not like Sony doesn’t know the math behind all of this…. It’s not like they didn’t do market research…. It’s not like they haven’t been monitoring the situation while releasing games on PC…

And it’s not like they can’t stop doing it at any time if they feel the strategy isn’t working.

 

[DragonNCM]

Quasimodo you mean

Nostradamus