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[Rixa]

This guy had been caught for earlier for lesser but still serious cyber-crimes when he was 15 but apparently he hasn't learned anything, so a change of punishment style could be appropriate.

See below Yaska's post.

So few points about Kivimäki. He was facing a max sentence, which is extremely rare in Finland. He got off because he was 15 at the time, and under Finnish law a person under 18 years doesn't get a prison sentence unless there are heavy reasons. He was a first timer, so the court played it safe. Also in that case MIT nor others had any demands. The sentence had nothing to do with psn or swatting or doxxing, it was about vcrrdit cards and adobe cloudflare vulnerabilities with a .h file vulnerability.

Most likely prosecutor will appeal, so Kivimäki might face prison time for these crimes. Alas there are multiple ongoing investigations ongoing against him, so he will go to jail next time he's in court.

What artsi has said in this topic is true, apart from a minor court process mistake. As I said in other thread, I have the full sentence and I am a nearly graduated lawyer in Finland, so if you have questions, shoot away.

Seriously, Don't source stuff to Kotaku about nongaming stuff.

 

[artsi]

Smedley says he's personally listened to the recording of this kid calling in the bomb threat that downed his plane.

But Kivimäki has not been convicted or even charged of that yet.
Police is still investigating, and it'll be some time before these more recent events (PSN, swatting, etc) go to court for a possible conviction.

Smedley says it's Kivimäki who made the bomb threat, but we don't know if there's enough evidence to support all these charges yet so we just have to wait until the case proceeds forward. I'm pretty sure the airline will want their cut too.

Personally I wish the whole group gets caught and will be handed the appropriate judgment, instead of only Kivimäki taking the blame for everything all those twats have done.

 

[Mister Megative]

Yeah. That's why Smedley was so pissed the guy they caught convicted of 50,000 offences got off with nothing.

I'm personally conflicted about it all ... At 17 the guy is a kid but the stuff they were doing was serious shit ....

Wasn't just him though. Vinnie Omari is 22. Beyond that, I personally feel like 17 is old enough for your conscience to determine what's right and wrong, ya know?

 

[Fox Mulder]

You guys get real salty at non punishment based justice systems dont you?

Swatting alone risks the lives of police and the unknowing homeowner, as well as wastes tax payer money and diverts police away from other things. Then there's shit like bomb threats and ruining someone's credit.

These are serious crimes that should get serious punishment as some fucks think this shit is funny.

 

[Kama_1082]

Where's John wick when we need him. I'd give him all the gold coins.

 

[magnetic]

So you shoot down several people, get pressed for an answer, and then do this:

so you don't have to actually explain yourself? LOL Good grief man.

No, that was all totally in that one thread, so why should he waste his time explaining his standpoint when he could just smugly point out how salty people are.

 

[panty]

As a finn I'd gladly beat the shit out of that asshole. Fucking trash.

 

[erpg]

What do these people have against John?

 

[QaaQer]

Yeah. That's why Smedley was so pissed the guy they caught convicted of 50,000 offences got off with nothing.

I'm personally conflicted about it all ... At 17 the guy is a kid but the stuff they were doing was serious shit ....

6 months in detention or army service with zero access to electronics would be both good for the kid and a punishment. They aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[diggmcbadass]

What do these people have against John?

Before turning to a life of Internet vigilantism, they probably had successful careers as private dancers in Star Wars Galaxies or something.

 

[Trup1aya]

From Twitter:



https://twitter.com/LizardLands/status/618640372265275392

Uh-huh.

What some people don't understand is a light punishment also shows all the other criminals exactly what they can do, and get away with.

This says it all... People are still defending this 'rehabilitation based justice' despite the fact that criminals are getting a kick out of it...

They do what they do, repeatedly, because they know they'll get away with it... It's not just about punishing the convict, it's about deterring others from committing the same crimes...

How many lives have to be ruined before people understand the severity of these crimes... Does someone have to die in a SWAT?

 

[ConceptX]

What do these people have against John?

Public target that reacted to them on Twitter/Interviews.

I imagine.

The main thing I take from this is the idea of a discussion on what legal definition a minor is, I'm not sure it should be under 18, I think it should be lower, but that's my own personal opinion.

 

[TheSlySoul]

SWATing, Credit tampering, and BOMB THREATS that ground planes deserve punishment. How could no punishment for that kind of shit be even remotely reasonable?

Pretty much. I understand 2 years for the DDOS alone, but the other crimes should have had charges.

 

[RealityCheque]

Cut their hands off. They'll be a lot slower typing with their noses.

 

[Fathom]

I'd love to hop on the revenge justice bandwagon present in here but the Finnish justice system knows better than a bunch of angry gamers.

Ignorant posts like this are rage inducing. I guess people like you won't give a shit until someone dies from swatting.

 

[Randam]

This is some case of doing it, just because they can, isn't it?

 

[TheSlySoul]

This is some case of doing it, just because they can, isn't it?

Of course. They feel like they are above the law, so they will keep at it.

 

[sturgboski]

Are the DDoS charges where he got a two year suspended sentence for this past holiday attack or something prior? If its for the holiday, didn't Microsoft and Sony provide things as an apology to their user base? Can't we compute what, at a minimum (not including any infrastructure, cybersecurity and reputational costs) the financial impact of the DDoS attack? I know a set of people sit there saying it only affected whiney gamers but millions of dollars affects companies, shareholders and employees. If he was part of a DDoS campaign that cost millions then 2 year suspended sentence does not fit the crime. Not to mention he did something similar before and got a slap on the wrist then too.

Also, age wise, if you can't tell what you are doing is wrong at age 17, there is something profoundly off.

 

[Oppo]

Cut their hands off. They'll be a lot slower typing with their noses.

you joke, but at some point they will piss off the wrong CEO, and there won't be a court case. just a guy with a knife and zip goes the fingers.

 

[Rixa]

Are the DDoS charges where he got a two year suspended sentence for this past holiday attack or something prior? If its for the holiday, didn't Microsoft and Sony provide things as an apology to their user base?.

The answer can be found from this page some posts up.

 

[Ayt]

Can we not assume that the "US system" is the only alternative? There are also harsher punishments within the Finnish system obviously. Saying they were too light on him doesn't automatically mean he should be in some US prison.

I also find it funny how foreigners seem to think all US prisons are bleak, gang-infested death centers.

What do you think typical Americans think of when they think of their prison system?

 

[nekkid]

Cut their hands off. They'll be a lot slower typing with their noses.

Watch them weep when they have to do a dollar sign.

 

[IntellectualViolence]

Heard Rura Penthe is beautiful this time of year...

 

[Grimgrillz]

That's fucked up but due to the nature of their attacks my surprised the ceo made such comments.

 

[Woo-Fu]

I think it's time for Daybreak to have another spokesperson. Smedley has got it off his chest, now it's time to stay in the shadows for a bit.

So the answer to terrorism is to try not to antagonize the terrorists more than you already have? lol.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

You guys get real salty at non punishment based justice systems dont you?

Debating criminal justice systems on here is a waste of everyone's time.

lol

 

[Jigorath]

You guys get real salty at non punishment based justice systems dont you?

He's been involved for years in every kind of terrible thing you can imagine including Carding, hacking, swatting people all over the world. He's also participated in a major way in DDOS attacks that caused a lot of grief for gamers and a lot of economic damage to the companies that make and run games.

He was the guy that brought down my flight with a bomb threat. I've heard the entire recording where he convinced an airline customer service agent there was a bomb on the plane. He also in conjunction with others has sent me pictures of my father's grave with nasty stuff on it. I've had my entire credit history put out on the internet including my SSN and my families info. We've had multiple social networks and other things hacked and had my family members called.

I've also been swatted (multiple times) and had over 50 false credit applications submitted in my name and had to deal with the ramifications of what happens to your credit when this kind of thing happens. It's not good. And to top it all off they decided to submit false tax returns.

Yeah this man deserves no punishment. A glorified probation is fine. I'm sure he's learned his lesson.

 

[Ayt]

I think the fact that he was 15-16 when he committed the specific acts he was charged with in this case is a major factor people are overlooking. People are also not reading what he was actually charged with and what he still potentially faces. This case had nothing to do with swatting or the bomb threat for example, yet people are bringing it up constantly.

I'm not exactly sure how the Finnish system works, but some type of extended supervision other than the two year suspended sentence seems appropriate. Hopefully he gets nailed on the other things he's accused of so that he can be charged appropriately for those crimes.

 

[Collateral22]

Any they will keep doing it because they know they can get away with it. Expect Christmas downtime again for both networks. Wouldn't surprise me if the #xboxorweriot kiddies band together and pay lizard squad to take down psn again when BO3 launches too.

 

[Village]

not only was I unable to play DCUO

I feel super bad these folk are not under a jail

 

[Dryk]

It's really sad that this is their response rather than humility, just put the guns down and stop fucking it up for the rest of us.

You have to remember that this is the sort of person we're dealing with here

We've grounded planes. We've gotten jets to surround planes and ground them. I'm pretty sure that's kind of, that's terrorism right there. That's really bad terrorism having jets guide a plane down and land it. Are you saying that's not terrorism? There's nothing they can do to us

What I'm saying is, no matter what we do we will never be caught. Especially by like this fat bald guy throwing empty legal threats at us. Because there's a zero percent chance that his local police department, or any other law enforcement will ever know who we are.

 

[superseohyun]

Why you guyz so seriouz? Its just Video gamez! serious business!

Spoiler

Its disgusting that stuff like this keeps happening. I really feel for those whose life are affected.

 

[Enter the Dragon Punch]

I think the fact that he was 15-16 when he committed the specific acts he was charged with in this case is a major factor people are overlooking. People are also not reading what he was actually charged with and what he still potentially faces. This case had nothing to do with swatting or the bomb threat for example, yet people are bringing it up constantly.

I'm not exactly sure how the Finnish system works, but some type of extended supervision other than the two year suspended sentence seems appropriate. Hopefully he gets nailed on the other things he's accused of so that he can be charged appropriately for those crimes.

Legally barring him from use of the Internet as well seems fair to me

 

[MUnited83]

pants is right though, the Finnish system DOES work. A lot better than the US system at least. It's understandable to want revenge, but it does more bad than good in the long term.

Actually giving a prison sentence is not revenge at all though. Considering the things the fuckers did, including attempted murder, a heavy prison sentence is warranted.

Go check what the Finnish sentences are. Attempted murder, identitify theft, blackmail and harassment are not 2 years suspended sentence. Those are not treayed lightly so I dont understand all the people defending and saying "hurr durr not revenge based". The guy got two years suspended for the DDoS ONLY. If they would charge him for everything else, he would get a much, much harsher sentence. Please stop making the Finnish system seem something it's not.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

From Twitter:



https://twitter.com/LizardLands/status/618640372265275392

Uh-huh.

What some people don't understand is a light punishment also shows all the other criminals exactly what they can do, and get away with.

This x100. These are young people. Mostly under 18. If they can get out without punishment and get easy money, recognition, fame and everything like that... why would they stop doing these things? Like these brats say: they have free passes (at least here in Finland).

 

[SmokedMeat]

I'd love to hop on the revenge justice bandwagon present in here but the Finnish justice system knows better than a bunch of angry gamers.

I'd love to see how well you'd handle this if the attacks were happening to you.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

This x100. These are young people. Mostly under 18. If they can get out without punisement and get easy money, recognition, fame and everything like that... why would they stop doing these things? Like these brats say: they have free passes (at least here in Finland).

Yup and it's bullshit. They should. We need to start treating cyber crimes as seriously as they are. They may not be physical but they do can and sometimes do ruin fucking lives. In this case this went beyond just a fucking ddos yet the fucker still just got a slap on the wrist course that's cause they didn't charge him for everything he actually did. It's so insane it isn't funny anymore.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

wow

 

[AmaterasuOni]

Yup and it's bullshit. They should. We need to start treating cyber crimes as seriously as they are. They may not be physical but they do can and sometimes do ruin fucking lives. In this case this went beyond just a fucking ddos yet the fucker still just got a slap on the wrist course that's cause they didn't charge him for everything he actually did. It's so insane it isn't funny anymore.

Yeah. And this new DDoS shows it. They're having a laugh while they commit more crimes and steal more money and ruin people. I'd like to get all fatherly with them when justice isn't served.

 

[GRIMREEFZ]

For the lulz.

how does being a victim make one an asshat?

 

[Walpurgis]

What do these people have against John?

He's a liar and ruined SOE by selling out to some investment company, shutting down several studios and firing the director of Everquest Next and Landmark. They even cut ties with Storybricks, a company that was going to help them make dynamic quests for Everquest Next. This was a major feature of the game. He's become very unpopular with MMO gamers for this.

I think that Lizard Squad was banned from H1Z1 since they aren't old enough for Smedley's earlier screw ups.

 

[constantstatic]

Any they will keep doing it because they know they can get away with it. Expect Christmas downtime again for both networks. Wouldn't surprise me if the #xboxorweriot kiddies band together and pay lizard squad to take down psn again when BO3 launches too.

PSN will crash regardless when BO3 releases it was down what 4 times in the last week with no major releases? Sony doesn't need lizard squads help PSN is already a joke.

 

[benicillin]

Laws really need to catch up to technology and figure out what they can do about what basically amounts to cyberterrorism, because it's going to get worse before it gets better. I wouldn't be surprised if someone got killed because of swatting before the end of the year.

 

[Jarnet87]

Before turning to a life of Internet vigilantism, they probably had successful careers as private dancers in Star Wars Galaxies or something.

there are few things more potent then the scorn people have for Smedley destroying SWG.

I feel bad for John because these people have really fucked with him, but when he speaks out like this publicly it just eggs them on and causes problems for the people who work at Daybreak and the people who play their games.

 

[MogCakes]

He's a liar and ruined SOE by selling out to some investment company, shutting down several studios and firing the director of Everquest Next and Landmark. They even cut ties with Storybricks, a company that was going to help them make dynamic quests for Everquest Next. This was a major feature of the game. He's become very unpopular with MMO gamers for this.

That's definitely not a reason he deserves what has happened to him however. You can't fix perceived corruption with blatant crime.

 

[Ooccoo]

This needs to stop right now. How the fuck is the Lizard Squad twitter account still online though?

 

[Collateral22]

PSN will crash regardless when BO3 releases it was down what 4 times in the last week with no major releases? Sony doesn't need lizard squads help PSN is already a joke.

I've been off the whole week and playing it pretty much non stop? Only thing down for me was Rocket League on launch. And AW was fine when it launched.

 

[espher]

That's definitely not a reason he deserves what has happened to him however. You can't fix perceived corruption with blatant crime.

The question was "what do they have against him", not "what would justify these actions against him", though.

 

[sturgboski]

The answer can be found from this page some posts up.

Hmm, I see it now. Egg on my face with that one.

 

[AmaterasuOni]

This needs to stop right now. How the fuck is the Lizard Squad twitter account still online though?

If you block them, they go underground and agencies and police can't follow them. They're kids, they'll make mistakes eventually. Easier to catch them when agencies are working with Twitter to get their IPs and such.