Logan |OT| Children of (X)Men (SPOILERS)

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It was during the exposition just before Rice died. I think he says something along the lines of "I've finally finished my father's work" or something to that effect. Like I said I didn't quite hear it clearly.

Yeah, I was kinda zoning out during his monologuing. I remember that part now, but I don't remember thinking "oh, he's talking about Stryker," I think I just assumed his dad was some other dickhead scientist. It'd make sense, I guess.
 
Yeah, I was kinda zoning out during his monologuing. I remember that part now, but I don't remember thinking "oh, he's talking about Stryker," I think I just assumed his dad was some other dickhead scientist. It'd make sense, I guess.

Yeah, I think there was another line as well that made it more concrete, but can't recall it atm >.<

I'll have to go for a rewatch!
 
I believe James Mangold has said he views this as basically an Elseworld in relation to the other films.

It was very good. Not quite up there with the best of the X-Men films, in my opinion, but refreshingly distinctive in a world of increasingly same-y franchise entries.

Dafne Keen was great as X-23. If they plan on doing more with her in the future, I'm up for it.

Also, I like the thematics of Logan taking X-23 back to Canada, his home country, as his final mission. Also, good to know that Kellie Leitch doesn't become prime minister, if Canada is still a safe haven for refugees.
 
I agree that the relationship between Logan and X23 could have been better. This is a movie where Logan dies.. but that 'daddy' moment just left me cold. That scene definitely didn't feel earned.

Yeah, I think there was another line as well that made it more concrete, but can't recall it atm >.<

I'll have to go for a rewatch!

He said something like "you knew my dad".. and logan said something like "i think i killed him"
 
He said something like "you knew my dad".. and logan said something like "i think i killed him"

That's right! And Rice is all "yes, I believe you did." and then he starts in with the monologuing.

I guess it just never occurred to me it was supposed to be a Stryker reference. But I was basically watching it like a pre-Craig Bond movie... continuity doesn't really count.
 
Just got out of it. Initial impression is that I liked it quite a bit.

I really loved the ending. I can understand it not landing for some, but I thought Laura was played so well throughout the film by the actor that it really carried that moment. She was fantastic throughout. I really hope we see more of her, even though I'm not sure that was the plan going in.
 
Also...while its still fresh

Did you guys notice the sword that was hanging on the wall near logans bed in the shed around the start of the movie

If that's the sword from the last wolverine movie it points towards this movie being on that timeline ( not after dofp ) but he has his metal claws back....so i dont now

Think im overthinking this
Could of just been a reminder that the director did the last movie
 
Thought it was phenomenal. Haven't had time to settle and all, but immediate reaction is I'd be nitpicking to point out what I didn't like. Say, parts of the music being off in the limo chase scene--that nitpicky.

Having the funny Deadpool teaser at the start was smart. Logan had lighter moments throughout but overall a heavy movie.

Oh, and X-24 was a total surprise for me.
 
Think im overthinking this
Could of just been a reminder that the director did the last movie
You should just assume flexible continuity with the previous films informing the backstory for Wolverine's character in Logan without getting too bogged down in any details that might not line up 1 to 1.

But yeah, there are a lot of little references to his previous life littered like spectres that haunt him throughout the film.
 
Well fuck. They really killed off Wolverine.

(And Xavier. And the X-Men. And made the X-Men's deaths Charles' fault.)

I thought it was pretty good. I'm a little surprised they really did kill Logan; I was more expecting a Dark Knight Rises or, given the reference, Shane-type ending.

My only major issue with it was X-24, which I thought was a really lame choice for a final boss. I get the thematic full circle-ness, but it just seems a little too cheesy -- and as long as they were going that route, I think I would have preferred them making X-24 a reanimated Sabretooth rather than a Wolverine clone. Feels like a missed opportunity in that regard.

So Dr. Rice is Stryker's son yeah? I think he said that in the movie but couldn't hear clearly. If so I take it he's not Jason lol

I think he was just the son of another Weapon X scientist, not Stryker himself.
 
I think he was just the son of another Weapon X scientist, not Stryker himself.

Actually, if we wanna use the loose continuity - it can't be Stryker, because we saw Logan escape from Weapon X in Apocalypse, and he didn't kill Stryker there.

Rice's dad must be one of the like, 30 dudes on the compound who bought it. Or just some random dude he probably killed in a test before Jean sprang him.
 
This isn't exactly a criticism, in a lot of ways the third act is conceptually similar to X-Men Origins. Be it an "F U we'll make it work!" or symmetry. Obviously done way better in Logan, but it came to my mind as it happened.
 
Did I miss an explanation for why mutants suddenly weren't being born anymore? I think Rice briefly touched on it near the end and made some comparison to polio but I couldn't make out all of it.

(Was it just my theater or was the sound mix kind of poor for dialogue in a handful of scenes?)

Also, I think every X-Men movie needs to open with a Deadpool short from now on.
 
Did I miss an explanation for why mutants suddenly weren't being born anymore? I think Rice briefly touched on it near the end and made some comparison to polio but I couldn't make out all of it.

(Was it just my theater or was the sound mix kind of poor for dialogue in a handful of scenes?)

Also, I think every X-Men movie needs to open with a Deadpool short from now on.

They manipulated the food and water supply to eliminate mutants I believe.
 
Did I miss an explanation for why mutants suddenly weren't being born anymore? I think Rice briefly touched on it near the end and made some comparison to polio but I couldn't make out all of it.
They were genetically modifying the food (and other consumables presumably) to supress the mutant gene but it inadvertantly started wiping them out instead.
In an attempt to get control of mutantkind, or so he claims, the evil Dr. Zander Rice (Richard E. Grant) concocted a formula that would suppress the mutant gene. Unfortunately, his formula&#8212;present in the genetically-altered corn syrup his company was mass manufacturing&#8212;nearly wiped out the mutants instead.
This Vanity Fair article goes into more detail in regards to what happened to the mutants.
 
Rice's programme didn't have an inadvertent effect, it did exactly what it was supposed to do: suppress "wild" mutation and allow the government to control the creation of mutants in a laboratory setting.
 
Yeah, the tampering with food/water plays into the whole synthetic corn crop guy subplot, along with the commercial for the random farming company that plays in the bar earlier in the film.

I liked the movie, especially how it took elements from the first two films (which stumbled) and they delivered here - i.e. slower healing from the second and the random family that takes Logan in and is met with tragedy. This movie executed it all infinitely better and deserves the praise.

Something felt off about the final set piece, like it didn't feel properly built up. The flow was similar to an 80s action flick and maybe that was the intent.
 
Saw the movie earlier. I've barely watched any of the X-Movies, but the standalone nature and positive buzz caught my attention. Really enjoyed it. Lots of heartstring tugs and I nearly teared up towards the end.

Deadpool teaser at the start was great as well. Got confused that it wasn't in the previews, but the surprise was worth it.
 
Speaking of nitpicking, when those goons were 'frozen' by Charles, shouldn't it be just brain/mind related thing? So when Logan stabbed them in the head, they should just drop down right away because their brains were dead thus not affected by Charles' power anymore?
 
Loved the movie and Dr. Zander Rice's father is someone from the comics that Wolverine killed called Dale Rice, at least that's what I'm getting from a google search, so no not Styrker.
 
That's right! And Rice is all "yes, I believe you did." and then he starts in with the monologuing.

I guess it just never occurred to me it was supposed to be a Stryker reference. But I was basically watching it like a pre-Craig Bond movie... continuity doesn't really count.

I think Logan might have even said something like "Your dad is the man who put this poison in me", referring to his claws, which makes it about as explicit as can be. Not really sure why that sort of callback is necessary at a time like that though.

---

In general, I thought it was a very good film hampered by a few niggling problems that, some 15 hours after seeing it, I still can't quite put my finger on.

Most immediately, is this film too bleak, as in, bleak for the sake of being bleak, to the point of near nihilism? This is an actual question that I don't have the answer to, but I'll be goddamned if this isn't the bleakest blockbuster I've perhaps ever seen. We're talking a film where fan favourite, wise, always reliable mentor-father-figure Charles Xavier is stricken with dementia to the point of being mostly a hindrance physically, has inadvertently killed hundreds of mutants (which is a direct counter to his entire life's work and drive), and is murdered unceremoniously in his near-sleep. Logan can't even muster the words to sum up this guy's grand, brave, heroic life. He's just... put in a ditch and left there.

Logan, too, is a man who's lived for what, 150 years or something? A guy who's been tossed around institution after institution as an experiment and tool his entire life, never learning to bond, never learning to love. And for a time, he manages to stumble into the arms of genuinely good people at Xavier's school, and he learns to value things like friendship. You could even see him settling down to have a family eventually. But by Logan, he's back to square one, bitter, angry, lonely and being called upon one last time to do a job he wants no part in. At every turn, he rejects others' compassion, even when you can see it killing him inside. And then, he too, dies unceremoniously, albeit with a touch more compassion shown from X-23 (and the classy + to x rotation). But by showing us the apathetic faces of the other kids at the funeral, the film almost made special effort to show how little this guy will be remembered by the larger populace. He's left some positive imprints on a precious few people, most of whom I assume are dead by now.

So you end up with these two longstanding heroes who just fade into the darkness, heroes who have had such rough lives, such tough challenges, who succeeded for a while, helped so many people in the purest way, but ultimately failed in mostly everything they ever desired (Logan a chance at peace and love, Xavier to help and nurture those in need).

There's hope in the film, sure, but it's such a sliver of hope. Both Logan and Xavier die with a fragment of peace in their hearts, but in both cases it seems fleeting. Xavier had a warm, soulful dinner with good people, but he's by no means at peace with any of the horrors he's committed. He goes to his grave unfulfilled and ashamed, despite all the incredible things he's achieved in the past. I like the idea that Logan has potentially created a path of peace and love for X-23 that he was never offered the luxury of, effectively saving her life where his was so mishandled. That's a nice sentiment, but he doesn't really seem like he ever really 'gets' compassion, even in death. I felt like Logan ultimately empathised that a little girl shouldn't be caught up in a harrowing situation like this and wanted to save her on those merits, rather than any sort of personal love or warmth for her. Him snatching his arm away when X-23 goes to hold it during Xavier's funeral scene was a good setup for what I assumed will be a later moment where he chooses to hold her hand, indicating a growth of his compassion, but it never came. He just tears up, smiles and dies.

And so I'm just wondering, for what purpose? What are we communicating by being so brashly bleak? Maybe the ultimate point is "Even in the face of complete hopelessness and complete failure, complete breakdown of our spirit and complete apathy for those around us, there's always something or someone worth helping" which isn't so bad I guess, but goddamn is it a fucking downer to get here.
 
Anyone else find it humorous that on her last night on Earth, while on the run, the nurse from the facility filmed a video on her iPhone and edited it as narration over previous footage she had taken?
 
I just got back and I thought it was an incredible movie, this is the wolverine movie I wanted to see. The sound in the Dolby atmos theater was insane.
 
I'm speechless. What a ride this movie was.

The ending
Logan saying "So that's how it feels like". OMG, I cried, it's SO perfect.
 
Did I miss an explanation for why mutants suddenly weren't being born anymore? I think Rice briefly touched on it near the end and made some comparison to polio but I couldn't make out all of it.

(Was it just my theater or was the sound mix kind of poor for dialogue in a handful of scenes?)

Also, I think every X-Men movie needs to open with a Deadpool short from now on.

They manipulated the food and water supply to eliminate mutants I believe.

Thought he said they were manipulating it to make people better overall, and the eliminating random mutations was just a happy accident.
 
I think Logan might have even said something like "Your dad is the man who put this poison in me", referring to his claws, which makes it about as explicit as can be.

I mean, Stryker didn't do it personally. And Stryker wasn't killed when Wolverine escaped from Weapon X, so it probably wasn't him.

It doesn't really matter, though, either way. I guess it could be a callback but the movie isn't really worried about anything but superficial referencing of past films/characters anyway.

And so I'm just wondering, for what purpose? What are we communicating by being so brashly bleak? Maybe the ultimate point is "Even in the face of complete hopelessness and complete failure, complete breakdown of our spirit and apathy for those around us, there's always something or someone worth helping" which isn't so bad I guess, but goddamn is it a fucker downer to get here.

I liked it

Anyone else find it humorous that on her last night on Earth, while on the run, the nurse from the facility filmed a video on her iPhone and edited it as narration over previous footage she had taken?

This was clunky as hell, yeah.

Maybe it was cause that trailer was just too good?

But the movie was like 10x better than the trailer was.
 
Not many directors essentially get the chance to make the same movie again, but do it better

Mangold must be happy. Wolverine was his first attempt at a "Relatively standalone Wolverine movie, with slight ties to past films, but overall not really trying to be a standard X-Men movie", but that had the crazy ending and then the post-credits scene. Now he got to do that concept again, but go all out with the violence, with distancing it even further from the X-Men movies, and able to do the desired ending
 
I think Logan might have even said something like "Your dad is the man who put this poison in me", referring to his claws, which makes it about as explicit as can be. Not really sure why that sort of callback is necessary at a time like that though.

That's what I was trying to think of! Thanks haha
 
I think Logan might have even said something like "Your dad is the man who put this poison in me", referring to his claws, which makes it about as explicit as can be. Not really sure why that sort of callback is necessary at a time like that though.

---

In general, I thought it was a very good film hampered by a few niggling problems that, some 15 hours after seeing it, I still can't quite put my finger on.

Most immediately, is this film too bleak, as in, bleak for the sake of being bleak, to the point of near nihilism? This is an actual question that I don't have the answer to, but I'll be goddamned if this isn't the bleakest blockbuster I've perhaps ever seen. We're talking a film where fan favourite, wise, always reliable mentor-father-figure Charles Xavier is stricken with dementia to the point of being mostly a hindrance physically, has inadvertently killed hundreds of mutants (which is a direct counter to his entire life's work and drive), and is murdered unceremoniously in his near-sleep. Logan can't even muster the words to sum up this guy's grand, brave, heroic life. He's just... put in a ditch and left there.

Logan, too, is a man who's lived for what, 150 years or something? A guy who's been tossed around institution after institution as an experiment and tool his entire life, never learning to bond, never learning to love. And for a time, he manages to stumble into the arms of genuinely good people at Xavier's school, and he learns to value things like friendship. You could even see him settling down to have a family eventually. But by Logan, he's back to square one, bitter, angry, lonely and being called upon one last time to do a job he wants no part in. At every turn, he rejects others' compassion, even when you can see it killing him inside. And then, he too, dies unceremoniously, albeit with a touch more compassion shown from X-23 (and the classy + to x rotation). But by showing us the apathetic faces of the other kids at the funeral, the film almost made special effort to show how little this guy will be remembered by the larger populace. He's left some positive imprints on a precious few people, most of whom I assume are dead by now.

So you end up with these two longstanding heroes who just fade into the darkness, heroes who have had such rough lives, such tough challenges, who succeeded for a while, helped so many people in the purest way, but ultimately failed in mostly everything they ever desired (Logan a chance at peace and love, Xavier to help and nurture those in need).

There's hope in the film, sure, but it's such a sliver of hope. Both Logan and Xavier die with a fragment of peace in their hearts, but in both cases it seems fleeting. Xavier had a warm, soulful dinner with good people, but he's by no means at peace with any of the horrors he's committed. He goes to his grave unfulfilled and ashamed, despite all the incredible things he's achieved in the past. I like the idea that Logan has potentially created a path of peace and love for X-23 that he was never offered the luxury of, effectively saving her life where his was so mishandled. That's a nice sentiment, but he doesn't really seem like he ever really 'gets' compassion, even in death. I felt like Logan ultimately empathised that a little girl shouldn't be caught up in a harrowing situation like this and wanted to save her on those merits, rather than any sort of personal love or warmth for her. Him snatching his arm away when X-23 goes to hold it during Xavier's funeral scene was a good setup for what I assumed will be a later moment where he chooses to hold her hand, indicating a growth of his compassion, but it never came. He just tears up, smiles and dies.

And so I'm just wondering, for what purpose? What are we communicating by being so brashly bleak? Maybe the ultimate point is "Even in the face of complete hopelessness and complete failure, complete breakdown of our spirit and complete apathy for those around us, there's always something or someone worth helping" which isn't so bad I guess, but goddamn is it a fucker downer to get here.

My oversimplification of an answer is that Logan himself is a broken man but the idea of Wolverine and what it meant to the children is a sort of redemption. Say, how Eden wasn't real, but the children made it real.

Scene that got me was Eriq La Salle's character trying to shoot Logan. And it ties into why I didn't mind X-24 as much as others. X-24 is the Logan that Logan remembers and why he's so deeply broken.
 
Anyone else find it humorous that on her last night on Earth, while on the run, the nurse from the facility filmed a video on her iPhone and edited it as narration over previous footage she had taken?

Yeah that info dump was pretty cringey. The weird thing though is that it was completely unnecessary. They hardly explain anything else in the film and this should've been another thing that was just alluded to rather than spelled out.

Loved the film btw, but it didn't have the emotional punch I thought it would considering everything that happened. And I'm still not sure about Clogan either. That was weird, even though I get the thematic means for it. Not sure about the Thunderdome kids either.
 
I want to see how the kids will manage to survive now.
Whoever they were speaking to on the radio said something about their asylum being approved, so I guess there's some sort of organization working with the Canadian government.
 
Not many directors essentially get the chance to make the same movie again, but do it better

Mangold must be happy. Wolverine was his first attempt at a "Relatively standalone Wolverine movie, with slight ties to past films, but overall not really trying to be a standard X-Men movie", but that had the crazy ending and then the post-credits scene. Now he got to do that concept again, but go all out with the violence, with distancing it even further from the X-Men movies, and able to do the desired ending

Shame he couldn't take The Wolverine into that direction either, since it was clearly heading there till the end. Would have been something.
 
Speaking of nitpicking, when those goons were 'frozen' by Charles, shouldn't it be just brain/mind related thing? So when Logan stabbed them in the head, they should just drop down right away because their brains were dead thus not affected by Charles' power anymore?

I'm pretty sure Charles can physically control objects as well. Remember when he freezes everyone in X2.
 
Amazing movie. The fanboy in me wishes they would have brought out an old sabertooth to fight wolverine instead of
x 24
 
Saw it last night. We didn't have the preview for Deadpool 2 which sucks. The movie itself was incredibly good. I honestly didn't think they would kill Wolverine. I thought they may have him go with the children and be like Charles before him but the ending had the finality to it that you don't get often these days.
 
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