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[videogamer]

He said he and President Bush have a lot in common--they both graduated from Ivy League schools, married above their station and beat Alan Keyes.

The senator-elect teased about his big victory over Keyes, saying that he received 70 percent of the vote statewide "and 102 percent in Chicago. Our voting system is so advanced that the folks in Florida are coming up to study it and see what they can learn."

He said Illinois and Chicago were progressive and ahead of the times. Referring to the fact that House Republicans had passed a rule allowing leaders to stay in their jobs even if indicted, he said, "We had that years ago" in Illinois.

Dealing with high expectations has been tough, Obama said.

People from his father's native Kenya were excited over his election, he said, thinking that would mean the building of billions of dollars in new roads, bridges, hospitals, and schools in their country.

"So I've tried to explain how it works these days," he said. "First comes the invasion, and then billions in aid." :lol

Obama compared the controversial election in Ukraine to the 2000 U.S. presidential election, in which a Supreme Court decision made Bush the winner. Now, essentially the same thing is happening in Ukraine, he said. "Well, President Bush said he wanted to export American-style democracy and, by God, I think it's working."

The senator-elect said a year ago, the pundits "said you can't win in a year like this with a name like Obama. There was quite a bit of confusion at first, but it did get me free airtime on Al Jazeera."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...,1,3170944.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed

that and draft gray http://draftgray.blogspot.com/ :lol

 

[whytemyke]

that guy is awesome :lol

 

[NLB2]

"So I've tried to explain how it works these days," he said. "First comes the invasion, and then billions in aid." God damn I can't believe a senator would actually say that.

 

[whytemyke]

I can't believe somebody would actually be bothered by it.

That IS how it works.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Awesome, it's like Jesse Ventura without the stupid.

 

[DaCocoBrova]

I fucks w/ that boy (no homo).

I think he should run for Vice President.

 

[Flynn]

A politician with a sense of humor.

Isn't that one of the last signs of the Apoclypse?

 

[whytemyke]

They're talking about Obama running for President around 2012.

Unfortunately, by that time, Jeb Bush will probably want to run for President, and will win by having exactly five-sixteenths of Americans voting for him, three-sixteenths voting for the Democratic rep, and the other half, the MAJORITY, realizing that voting is pointless and either way you're going to get the same bunch of stupid, selfish, ignorant Americans in office.

 

[mrmyth]

God, I hope he can keep his nose clean for 12 years and get the Dem nomination. (This also assumes he doesn't already have skeletons in his closet.)

 

[videogamer]

God, I hope he can keep his nose clean for 12 years and get the Dem nomination. (This also assumes he doesn't already have skeletons in his closet.)

Olimario is already hatin' on Obama. :lol :lol

 

[Rorschach]

:lol

 

[Ripclawe]

(This also assumes he doesn't already have skeletons in his closet.)

its out there...waiting to be used....

 

[KingGondo]

Generic Presidential Candidate+Obama '08!

 

[Socreges]

its out there...waiting to be used....

You have no reason to be coy. If you've got anything, tell us. I'm curious. As it is, I think you're full of shit or trying to imply something as being worse than it is.

and the other half, the MAJORITY, realizing that voting is pointless and either way you're going to get the same bunch of stupid, selfish, ignorant Americans in office.

No. Not voting is for ignorant people.

...not to suggest that therefore voting is by the informed. Christ, I mean, 8 years of Bush.

 

[Christoff Yurievich]

Olimario is already hatin' on Obama. :lol :lol

that's not Olimario dude.

you're full of shit

yeah, there ya go.

 

[Nerevar]

You have no reason to be coy. If you've got anything, tell us. I'm curious. As it is, I think you're full of shit or trying to imply something as being worse than it is.

It's Ripclawe. Talking about a democrat. What do you think.

 

[Socreges]

Yeah, but I'm still going to challenge him. And I think he DOES have something, but I'd like to see just how weak it is. Like, was Obama's father actually from Ghana and the Kenya claim is just a massive cover-up to protect the outstanding warrent out for his arrest due to a dozen unpaid goat-parking tickets?

 

[whytemyke]

No. Not voting is for ignorant people.

...not to suggest that therefore voting is by the informed. Christ, I mean, 8 years of Bush.

Yeah? Well, I'm sure the moment you voted your life was instantly improved.

 

[Socreges]

Yeah? Well, I'm sure the moment you voted your life was instantly improved.

Hmm..

PHL 140- Intro to Logic

Get back to me after the Spring semester.

 

[StoOgE]

I wanted this guy in the whitehouse ever sense the dem convention. The guy has the ability to present a clear view, articulate it, not talk down to people and manage to be funny at the same time. Plus, the guy is pretty damn liberal.

How hard it would be to get a black person named Obama elected is another question. They will make him the VP nominee because they want him out of the Senate. The worst thing a person can have running for presidency is a voting record that can be taken out of context. Bush had that advantage last time, Clinton the time before that. It helps.. ALOT.

everyone has something they voted against because of some technicality, take it out of context and all the sudden they seem like the worlds biggest asshole for voting against something that has massive support.

 

[whytemyke]

Get back to me after the Spring semester.

I'll get back to you now. While I haven't taken the philosophy class, I have probably more experience in political debate than many people in this country, meaning that I'm more than capable to take you on right now.

Why should people vote? These elections are bought and paid for before you ever step into the voting booth, and all this theory of a republic democracy is doing is placating the masses into believing that they have some great voice in America when in fact the only people that do are those with money.

The same companies run the country, regardless of who is in the White House. Regardless of who wins the presidency, the legislation will change very little. Take the NRA for example. This organization is always going to have enough support from Congresspeople-- on both sides of the aisle-- to keep them from voting for any real gun reform. Perfect example, the assault weapons ban that was never renewed in accordance with it's sunset provision. Now, the Dems were only overrun in Senate by 5, I believe, and they were outnumbered in the House by a marginally small number as well. Yet, did you even HEAR about a motion by any group of representatives to move to keep Uzis from getting back on the streets? No.

Bush passed his Social Security test under a dominant Democratic house. The new test, if implemented to the general population, will automatically push out millions of dollars directly to the President, and give the former holders of that money stock options in New York. Now, the only difference here is that if a company flounders now, people lose their life earnings. Naturally, many people who are middle class and upper class will already have a 401K established, as well as possibly a Roth IRA account, so their retirements are going to be fairly safe, and the possibility of losing a portion of their retirement money to the stock market, with essentially no insurance, isn't as big of a threat as it would be to the poor people who could possibly lose, en masse, their entire retirement security. Now, this test was passed under a Democratic congress, who is supposed to look out, as their mantra decries, for the lower class.

You see, the simple problem here is that voting is about as effective as religion is. Ultimately, it's a really nice way to make people think that they have this great effect on the outcome of their lives, and to always instill hope, but when broken down to it, no matter who you vote for, they're from the same echelons of society, they've gone to the same schools and learned the same crap and grew up in the same areas. This is especially true in Presidential elections. (Edit: the obvious outlier here is Clinton)

 

[videogamer]

I wanted this guy in the whitehouse ever sense the dem convention. The guy has the ability to present a clear view, articulate it, not talk down to people and manage to be funny at the same time. Plus, the guy is pretty damn liberal.

How hard it would be to get a black person named Obama elected is another question. They will make him the VP nominee because they want him out of the Senate.

Yeah, his skin color may still be a problem with some people, but they are probably hard-core conservatives anyways. Also, the senate hasn't exactly been a good launching-pad for presidents.

The worst thing a person can have running for presidency is a voting record that can be taken out of context. Bush had that advantage last time, Clinton the time before that. It helps.. ALOT.

everyone has something they voted against because of some technicality, take it out of context and all the sudden they seem like the worlds biggest asshole for voting against something that has massive support.

With people like ripclaw already saying that there are skeletons, I think it's going to be a sure thing that the Republicans are going to think up of something.

 

[AstroLad]

its out there...waiting to be used....

Did he fiercely support the Vietnam war while dodging using his blue-blood status to protect Texas from the Viet Cong while Americans were dying every day?

Did he drive drunk?

What could it be!!!!!?????

Oh, wise Ripclawe, please let us know what the conservative spin sites are telling you to tell us.

 

[Socreges]

I'll get back to you now. While I haven't taken the philosophy class, I have probably more experience in political debate than many people in this country, meaning that I'm more than capable to take you on right now

The logic poke was just in reply to the one comment; a strawman fallacy, if I've ever seen one.

<the rest>

For all your detailed points on the similarities, you should be just as capable of making the important distinctions. But I suppose debating isn't supposed to involve considering the other angle.

 

[AstroLad]

I know what the dirty little secret is...

...they're going to let everyone in on the secret that Obama is black!

Just like Jesse Helms and the Republican party did when he was running against a black candidate and they ran an ad where they showed "a white hand about to get a job held back by a black hand."

Brilliant political strategy! And great for "our" country too!

 

[videogamer]

Did he fiercely support the Vietnam war while dodging using his blue-blood status to protect Texas from the Viet Cong while Americans were dying every day?

Did he drive drunk?

What could it be!!!!!?????

Oh, wise Ripclawe, please let us know what the conservative spin sites are telling you to tell us.

They might bring up his mixed heritage:

"Obama's shocking secret: He's Strom Thurmond's love child."

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Yeah, but I'm still going to challenge him. And I think he DOES have something, but I'd like to see just how weak it is. Like, was Obama's father actually from Ghana and the Kenya claim is just a massive cover-up to protect the outstanding warrent out for his arrest due to a dozen unpaid goat-parking tickets?

I am sorry, but with all the political blathering going up above about whether or not somebody should vote for the sake of voting, there needs to be another post that ends in a dozen unpaid goat-parking tickets.

 

[Ripclawe]

They might bring up his mixed heritage:

:lol

If you think that his race is going to be used in any presidential race you are out there with the tin foils.

It's limited thinking like that which makes the demos have all these seminars on why they are losing ground since 1992 on a national level.

Kenya claim is just a massive cover-up to protect the outstanding warrent out for his arrest due to a dozen unpaid goat-parking tickets?

Ah, Kenya = lots of goats and not an important trade center in Africa. They all ride around on donkeys. funny joke.

 

[StoOgE]

yeah, because the republicans have never used racism in a presidential election.

:see's Willie Horton:

well, only that once.

 

[Ristamar]

I know what the dirty little secret is...

...they're going to let everyone in on the secret that Obama is black!

:lol I was waiting for that one. GAF does not disappoint.

 

[videogamer]

:lol

If you think that his race is going to be used in any presidential race you are out there with the tin foils.

It's limited thinking like that which makes the demos have all these seminars on why they are losing ground since 1992 on a national level.

it's nice to know that you're laughing along with my joke

 

[firex]

looks like Obama's biggest joke is Ripclawe.

 

[Socreges]

it's nice to know that you're laughing along with my joke

Truly, he knows that. But he managed to trick himself into thinking it wasn't so he could make a weak transition to a slam on democrats, releasing some of the bitterness he assuredly is feeling from people challenging his Obama claim, of which he cannot give any answer to.

Ain't that right, Ripclawe? Prove me wrong, please.

 

[whytemyke]

For all your detailed points on the similarities, you should be just as capable of making the important distinctions. But I suppose debating isn't supposed to involve considering the other angle.

Well, I'll tell you what. I should have referred to what I was saying as my opinion rather than as an argument, because upon rereading what I wrote, there were certainly more fallacies than the strawman one which you mentioned. However, I'd also state that just because there are fallacies in my argument, it doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It just means that I poorly stated my opinions.

The problem I find, oftentimes, is that a logical fallacy can be tossed into any particular argument, and everyone is just expected to say that the argument is therefore false. Quite the opposite is actually true, as most any debate based on personal opinion would always have such fallacies. Does that mean that neither side is right? Possibly, but not definite.

My point that companies in general finance the same people still stands. You imply that more instances are needed to prove that this is universal, when obviously in matters of political reality there ARE no definites, which is why politics is such an ambiguous science. I could just as easily turn around to the opposite point of view, and ask for proof that voting isn't a waste of time. No matter what proponents of that view say, I could always find something to throw out to them and ruin their theory. That's what happens when dealing on a macro level of economics.

It is unfair to judge the value of a political argument purely by the reasoning and fallacies within. In order to have a fallacy, you have to have a definite on any given thing, and since, as I said before, a definite is nearly impossible to find, well, there's no need to use fallacies, especially when dealing with something on such a varied level as voting on a national, or even state, scale.

That's why politics is about ideas, and why so many people study it. There is no right or wrong.

 

[Hitokage]

I never knew that money flow was such an abstract subject.

 

[Mike Works]

I'll get back to you now. While I haven't taken the philosophy class, I have probably more experience in political debate than many people in this country, meaning that I'm more than capable to take you on right now.

Anyone who posts in this thread has more experience in political debate than most people in your country.

 

[Mandark]

It is unfair to judge the value of a political argument purely by the reasoning and fallacies within.

That is the single dumbest thing I've read on the forums in a while.

its out there...waiting to be used....

You have 48 hours to tell us what it is, or get banned.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Awww hell naw...


*tags thread for mornin' reading*

 

[Azih]

You imply that more instances are needed to prove that this is universal

Did he?

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Ah, Kenya = lots of goats and not an important trade center in Africa. They all ride around on donkeys. funny joke.

Oooor it was referencing that his father was a goatherder.

 

[bishoptl]

"First comes the invasion, and then billions in aid."

Dear God... :lol :lol

I might apply for American citizenship just so I can vote for this guy. Hilarious.

 

[Late Stage Marxist]

This guy is just what the Democratic party needs.

 

[Incognito]

This guy is just what the Democratic party needs.

True, but I hope he doesn't run until 2012(2016 even, considering Dems are taking back the House in 2008...). Don't want him to crash and burn too early...

 

[Incognito]

Ripclawe doesn't know shit; he's just hoping there's something out there, hence the "ITS OUT THERE........" line. If he does happen to know something, no doubt it's from the pages of the Freeperville.

 

[videogamer]

Oooor it was referencing that his father was a goatherder.

Yeah, it doesn't look like ripclaw got the joke. And that joke that he quoted wasn't even mine.

 

[Ripclawe]

You have 48 hours to tell us what it is, or get banned.

http://www.blackcommentator.com/45/45_dixon.html

The whole article accuses him of being two-faced with one persona for his base and another for the "mainstream"




http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14495

The Barack Obama Myth
By Michael P. Tremoglie
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 6, 2004

In fact, Obama has bristled at being referred to as a mainsteam Democrat. When he was accused by Black Commentator magazine as being co-opted by the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). Black Commentator believes the more moderate rhetoric of the DLC and Bill Clinton's willingness to compromise with Republicans for political gain have harmed the party. It believes the DLC's candidates are corrupted by corporations, and refers to conservative black politicians as "black stealth candidates," which is how they characterized Obama.

Obama was so disturbed by this, he wrote a letter to Black Commentator stating:

"To begin with, neither my staff nor I have had any direct contact with anybody at DLC…I don't know who nominated me for the DLC list of 100 rising stars…I certainly did not view such inclusion as an endorsement on my part of the DLC platform…I spend much of my time with audiences trying to educate them on the dangers of both the Patriot Act, Patriot Act 2, and the rest of John Ashcroft's assault on the Constitution…In the last three months alone, I passed and sent to Illinois governor's desk 25 pieces of major progressive legislation, including groundbreaking laws mandating the videotaping of all interrogations and confessions in capital cases; racial profiling legislation; a new law designed to ease the burden on ex-offenders seeking employment; and a state earned income tax credit that will put millions of dollars directly into the pockets of Illinois' working poor."



His voting record certainly displays the ideology characteristic of an indulgent liberal. (Sorry, "Progressive.") Obama favors abortion, socialized medicine, and Affirmative Action. Obama sponsored a bill in the Illinois legislature requiring local police departments in Illinois to record the race of anyone stopped for questioning so that the data can be used to track the occurrence of racial profiling. He opposes a $2,000 tax credit for retirement and has voted against private gun ownership, mandatory sentencing and the death penalty. During his tenure as a legislator, he abstained from voting about an abortion parental notification bill and on legislation that would keep pornographic video stores and strip clubs from within 1,000 feet of schools and churches. He has also voted against laws requiring students to complete suspensions before being transferred to other school districts. He abstained from legislation requiring adult prosecution for students who fire guns on school grounds. He opposed legislation making it a criminal offense for accused gang members to associate with known gang members.

http://www.sacobserver.com/government/091704/obama_one_black_syndrome.shtml

“The rap in Chicago was that he was not Black enough. And so, that’s still going to be a lingering question,” says University of Maryland Political Scientist Ronald Walters. “But his legislative record tells you that he has been good on progressive legislation. He seems to be a liberal. He seems to have really taken some time to deal with urban issues.”

Walters did not always hold this opinion. He admits he was among the first to question Obama’s racial allegiance because of the belief that he had been a belief that Obama had been a member of the Democratic Leadership Committee, a centrist group that works to move the party to the right.

voting record already from Illnois is good enough to use against him on national level, and he is going to push ahead in the Senate, so add that and he is good to sink if he tries to pull an Edwards. I doubt he will though.

 

[PotatoeMasher]

http://www.blackcommentator.com/45/45_dixon.html
voting record already from Illnois is good enough to use against him on national level, and he is going to push ahead in the Senate, so add that and he is good to sink if he tries to pull an Edwards. I doubt he will though.

WE HAVE A WINNER

 

[Ripclawe]

Oooor it was referencing that his father was a goatherder.

Yeah, it doesn't look like ripclaw got the joke. And that joke that he quoted wasn't even mine.

Obama's father was slightly more than just a goat herder, his grandfather was a wealthy farmer, its not like they grew up in a small out of the way village and this great luck happened to them. But I chalk all that to up to good old fashion American dream politics making. Nothing wrong with that.

http://nigeriaworld.com/columnist/okonkwo/080204.html

Barack Obama was born on August 4, 1961 in Hawaii to a 20-year-old white American woman called Ann and a Kenyan student named Barack Obama Sr. Born in Ndori, Alego, in Nyanza Province of Kenya, Obama Sr. was the first African student enrolled at the University of Hawaii. He left his son and wife when Obama Jr. was two years old for Harvard University in Cambridge, Massachusetts, after winning a scholarship to pursue a PhD program in economics.

Obama Sr. returned to Independent Kenya afterwards and became a technocrat. Ann, on her part, remarried to an Indonesian oil manager. At six years old, Obama Jr. and his mother moved to Indonesian where they lived for four years. Meanwhile, Obama Sr. worked for an American oil company in Kenya and became a powerful member of Kenyatta’s government. He wrote his son frequently but visited only once when Jr. was ten years old. He became wealthy and influential in Kenya until he fell out of favor. Soon after, he became depressed and began to drink and abuse his Kenyan wife. He died in a car accident in 1982.

 

[videogamer]

http://www.blackcommentator.com/45/45_dixon.html

The whole article accuses him of being two-faced with one persona for his base and another for the "mainstream"




http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14495

The Barack Obama Myth
By Michael P. Tremoglie
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 6, 2004




http://www.sacobserver.com/government/091704/obama_one_black_syndrome.shtml






voting record already from Illnois is good enough to use against him on national level, and he is going to push ahead in the Senate, so add that and he is good to sink if he tries to pull an Edwards. I doubt he will though.

uh how are these "skeletons"? You know, the stuff that Republicans like to use, you like blow jobs and stuff. This is material that is well out in the open and not some "skeleton" that some Freeptard "found".


btw, you're acting like being liberal is bad.

 

[ShadowRed]

http://www.blackcommentator.com/45/45_dixon.html

The whole article accuses him of being two-faced with one persona for his base and another for the "mainstream"




http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14495

The Barack Obama Myth
By Michael P. Tremoglie
FrontPageMagazine.com | August 6, 2004




http://www.sacobserver.com/government/091704/obama_one_black_syndrome.shtml






voting record already from Illnois is good enough to use against him on national level, and he is going to push ahead in the Senate, so add that and he is good to sink if he tries to pull an Edwards. I doubt he will though.

Uh am I missing something here? All those quotes critcized him for holding positions that most normal Democrats hold. How are those going to be used against him other than to persuade Republicans he's a democrat which I'm sure most people already know.