Instigator said:You give them an inch, they'll want a meter.
Well at least they're going metric...
Instigator said:You give them an inch, they'll want a meter.
COCKLES said:[anti-Muslim rantings snipped]
iapetus said:Faith in humanity --
iapetus said:Faith in humanity --
COCKLES said:Bollocks to political correctness, it could easily have been dozens of people who post on this board blown to smithereens this morning.
etiolate said:Don't start defending a religion that has been a tool for war since it's birth, along with a faction of that religion which actions are disgusting slantering of it's faith. Just hating muslims and calling them retarded is dumb, but let's keep it real here.
Borys said:At least this time give him a break - he's from UK.
fortified_concept said:Stereotype and ignorance (Religious people are not nihilists).
I give a shit and many others do. Some people are not superficial idiots who just point fingers without investigating the real reasons behind certain actions.
Mental defectives huh? Another stereotype with a bit of ignorance since USA first disrupted their definition of nornal lives. But you never thought of considering that, did you?
Another stereotype this time against people who partly blame US goverment and other -allied to USA- goverments for this. Just because I'm against US goverment's actions doesn't mean I'm supporting Al Queda. That's Bush logic.
Defending the terrorists = "They were right and justified in killing those people."Nerevar said:WHAT THE FUCK. Are you seriously defending the terrorists here? Are you that fucking dense? What the hell is wrong with you? These people killed possibly hundreds of people today and you're defending them? Grow the fuck up.
Nerevar said:WHAT THE FUCK. Are you seriously defending the terrorists here? Are you that fucking dense? What the hell is wrong with you? These people killed possibly hundreds of people today and you're defending them? Grow the fuck up.
human5892 said:Defending the terrorists = "They were right and justified in killing those people."
Probing the rationale behind terrorist attacks and avoiding broad generalizations = What fortified_concept posted.
This "WIF US OR AGAINST US" attitude really needs to stop.
human5892 said:Defending the terrorists = "They were right and justified in killing those people."
Probing the rationale behind terrorist attacks and avoiding broad generalizations = What fortified_concept posted.
This "WIF US OR AGAINST US" attitude really needs to stop.
RiZ III said:Invasion of Iraq did what the anti-war people were saying. It destabalized the region, got the US stuck in there without an exit strategy, and increased the threat of terrorism to the world. Good job George.
I hope this London attack doesn't mean that similar attacks are planned for America or anywhere else today.
Nerevar said:Oh, so the US disruption of their lives (never mind the fact that the US got involved in the area due to Soviet expansion into Afghanistan ...) is somehow, in any way shape or form, a justification for murder?
"Minor countries" like Spain? Saudi Arabia? Russia? Turkey I guess. And of course attacks in Israel and Iraq. All of these get/got substantial media coverage.fugimax said:Hate to tell you, but there have been many *many* terrorist attacks since 9/11. Most don't get this kind of coverage though because they are isolated incidents in minor countries.
STFU about what the "American media" did and did not report and analyze. What's wrong with you people? Just because you're woefully underinformed doesn't mean the information isn't out there for anyone to absorb.Funky Papa said:The bombings instigator confessed that they wanted to bomb Madrid when former president Aznar endorsed the Iraq war. Of course american media didn't report this fact months ago, how surprising.
In other words, supporting dictatorships and democracies. In other words, supporting everyone. Saying that conservative isolationists in the ME don't want their governments involved with the US does not in any way justify or explain acts of war by international terrorist organizations. Of course, those ME countries are even more deeply involved with other world governments who don't get nearly the amount of negative heat as the US--but lets just gloss over that fact because fuck the Jews, am I right? What I'm arguing against is this policy that the US gets roundly condemned for hand-shaking, while former colonial powers have their arms fully inserted up to their shoulders, yet are congratulated for their commitment to détente. It's as BS as people trying to justify the 9/11 attacks because the US rejected the Kyoto protocol.Instigator said:But they were not left alone. That's the thing. They were no major military involvement before 9/11, that's true, but the US was very much involved in the Middle East, directly with its corporate or military presence or indirectly supporting dictatorships and Israel.
No! No! No!Nerevar said:Oh, so the US disruption of their lives (never mind the fact that the US got involved in the area due to Soviet expansion into Afghanistan ...) is somehow, in any way shape or form, a justification for murder?
fortified_concept said:WHY? WHY people can't see that huge line which separates defending someone's actions and understanding the real motives behind certain actions. WHY for god's sake can't you understand that just because I don't think that Al Queda is murdering people because they're christians but because of USA's and their allies involvement in the Middle East, doesn't mean that I'm not furious and disgusted by them and their actions? I partly blame certain western goverments for this, I'm not trying to excuse Al Queda's actions. Can you understand that?
fortified_concept said:WHY? WHY people can't see that huge line which separates defending someone's actions and understanding the real motives behind certain actions. WHY for god's sake can't you understand that just because I don't think that Al Queda is murdering people because they're christians but because of USA's and their allies involvement in the Middle East, doesn't mean that I'm not furious and disgusted by them and their actions? I partly blame certain western goverments for this, I'm not trying to excuse Al Queda's actions. Can you understand that?
Sholmes said:Bin Laden and company seemed like such nice guys back in the 1980s, I mean, we gave them weapons and stuff, right?
What you are doing is repeating their superficial justifications for why they do this, not explaining the actual "root cause" situation, nor their own deeper understanding of what they are trying to accomplish.human5892 said:I don't know where this is coming from. It wasn't in fortified's post. It wasn't in my post. Talking about why terrorists do what they do is not justifying it.
Because in their eyes this is not time "wasted". This is a jihad -- a holy war -- that they are specifically instructed to fight as per the basic tennants of their religion due to outsiders encroaching on their holy land and their way of life -- not just recently, but for decades.CoryCubed said:With all this time they are wasting on the west, why don't they go back totheir countries and help rebuild? Instead of building a bomb, plant a tree in Iraq, build a school, work on infrastructure, set up wi-fi hotspots, something that will help your country.
Huh? The Al-Qaeda leaders got away, the Taliban is still a threat, and the country is so fragmented (with insufficient foreign troops) that Karzai is effectively the mayor of Kabul. That might be better than the status quo before the US invaded (or the current situation in Iraq), but it definitely isn't a "fucking fine job."Ruzbeh said:Bush did a fucking fine job with Afghanistan, on the other hand.
I don't see what's funny about this?Razoric said:holy shit... :lol :lol
I'm not sure what you mean. Their "superficial justifications" for most attacks are not superficial, but are directly related to the root cause -- they believe they are involved in a holy war due to actions from the U.S. and other nations present and past, and have always stated as such. And I thought that's what people like fortified and I were discussing...?APF said:What you are doing is repeating their superficial justifications for why they do this, not explaining the actual "root cause" situation, nor their own deeper understanding of what they are trying to accomplish.
Razoric said:We supported the lesser of two evils... but I almost forgot that a lot of you actually support communism now.
Ruzbeh said:Bush did a fucking fine job with Afghanistan, on the other hand.
Razoric said:We supported the lesser of two evils... but I almost forgot that a lot of you actually support communism now.
human5892 said:I'm not sure what you mean. Their "superficial justifications" for most attacks are not superficial, but are directly related to the root cause -- they believe they are involved in a holy war due to actions from the U.S. and other nations present and past, and have always stated as such. And I thought that's what people like fortified and I were discussing...?
Nerevar said:when your first reaction is Fuck tony blair for getting us into the war it seems to imply that your anger is directed at people who you think got you involved in this, not the people doing the damage. But have it your way - go somewhere that doesn't want to actively pursue a campaign against terrorism. The plain fact of the matter is that these same sects of Islam have been butchering and killing their own people (and especially other ethnicities - how many buddhists are left in Afghanistan nowadays?) in the middle east for centuries now, I'm sure playing nice with them will get you real far.
Sure. That doesn't invalidate this one though; in fact, the ongoing jihad against encroaching Westerners and the Israel situation is the definitive jihad of recent times.Nerevar said:Do you have any idea how many things have been the subject of a "jihad" by one terrorist group or another over the past 40 years?
fortified_concept said:You are kidding right? You call USA's pre-9/11 policy towards arab countries "leave them alone and they won't bother us"?
Of course they are. They're superficial to them, I mean. Them meaning the philosophical base of AQ. There's a big difference between what they send-out in certain missives--which are in large part recruitment pitches--and what is revealed in deeper examination of their tenets and guiding principles. They haven't historically been great supporters of the Palestinian cause, IIRC, but that doesn't prevent them from tossing a shout-out if it gets them props.human5892 said:I'm not sure what you mean. Their "superficial justifications" for most attacks are not superficial
teiresias said:As we all know, Christianity has never been used as the basis for war at any time in history.
fortified_concept said:In my original post I said "fuck you" to both Blair and Al Queda. Go read it. Stop wasting my time by putting words into my mouth or reading what you want. And please explain what you mean by the highlighted sentence. Are you referring to the Iraq War as "a campaign against terrorism"? If you are please tell me so that I can stop arguing with you right now.
Well sure, I agree that specific AQ factions and members are not always fighting for the sake of the "big picture", but unless I missed something I don't think that's what anyone was talking about here in the thread.APF said:Of course they are. They're superficial to them, I mean. Them meaning the philosophical base of AQ. There's a big difference between what they send-out in certain missives--which are in large part recruitment pitches--and what is revealed in deeper examination of their tenets and guiding principles. They haven't historically been great supporters of the Palestinian cause, IIRC, but that doesn't prevent them from tossing a shout-out if it gets them props.
Nerevar said:Don't try and drag Iraq into this, it's irrelevant to the whole discussion. If Iraq was never invaded do you think the UK would be safe from terrorism? If you are please tell me so I can stop arguing with you right now.
Well, it sort of makes sense. Almost whole world was on our side after 9/11, and he pissed all that goodwill down the drain. If he had focused on Al-Quaeda instead of shakily refocusing his efforts on invading a tenuously related country, Al-Quaeda's presence would probably be much less now, from not only our continued efforts but the help of other nations that could have been behind us along the way.Razoric said:This forum is truly awesome sometimes. London gets bombed, possibly by Terrorists, and people say "fuck you george Bush." :lol
Do we blame the Islamic Terrorists? Do we blame our own weak-ass immigration policies?
HELL NO!
BLAME BUSH! BLAME BUSH!
iapetus said:Do you think the destabilisation of Iraq has made the UK safer from terrorism? Because unlike you I live in a world with shades of grey between black and white.
Oh, and if we all claim that we believe the UK would be safe from terrorism if Iraq hadn't been invaded then would you actually just STFU? Because it hurts me inside to see you making yourself look so stupid.
Ignatz Mouse said:I certainly think "Fuck Bush" in light of this news. Not because he's to blame for terrorist actions, but becuase he's been justifying a *fucking stupid war* in the name of counter-terrorism which he *goddamned knows is not the source of this attack or 9/11* while having more or less given up on going after al Queda.
Which, I realize, is somewhat off-point, but it's goddamned frustrating to have yet another terrosrist attack like this and have my government not only *not* really doing anything about it, but doing something heinous and *pretending* that they are doing something about terrorism.
"In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate, may
peace be upon the cheerful one and the dauntless fighter,
Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him."
iapetus said:Do you think the destabilisation of Iraq has made the UK safer from terrorism? Because unlike you I live in a world with shades of grey between black and white.
Oh, and if we all claim that we believe the UK would be safe from terrorism if Iraq hadn't been invaded then would you actually just STFU? Because it hurts me inside to see you making yourself look so stupid.
COCKLES said:Peaceful Islam strikes again!
Tony Blair...you are the traitor to the British people - the ultimate quisling who puts the UK in danger, not from the Iraq campaign, but for constantly jumping to the aid of Islam at every turn, at the expense of the British people. Take for example the new religious hatred laws passed this week - it means anyone 'offended' by for example a comedy routine that takes a dig at a religion such as Judism or Islam will now be illegal - and these laws are specifcally aimed at 'protecting' the Islamic community...wake up Mr Blair, how about protecting the indiginous population from Muslims?
Russian, Israel and numerous other countries have attacked the UK government for harbouring Islamic terrorists, allowing them to preach hatred...and surprise, if you allow these people freedom to roam the county, including tube stations, buses then sure enough they'll blow the shit out of them.