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[Meus Renaissance]

a little new found appreciation for russel brand
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/au...s-davidcameron

Brand wastes his talents doing these films. He is a brilliant commentator

 

[Khal_B]

Do you ever wonder why you always find yourself at the heart of these debates, with people venting at you and ridiculing your positions? I would say that it seems to be what you want, what you crave.

I've seen you in the US poligaf threads, and you're obviously a good and thoughtful person. Now and then you have a good point to make. But you always, ALWAYS, default to almost risible far-left viewpoints whether you are in possession of facts or not, whether you have a stake in the matter or not, and regardless of your actual knowledge and experience.

Every one of us here in the UK, who are sitting mouth agape at just how lilly livered and ignorant you are being -- we aren't telling you that you are wrong about this because we're more centrist or right wing than you, we're telling you that you're wrong because you are.

These were NOT demonstrations. You have a very warped definition of demonstrations if you think that's what these were. Secondly, it seems to be an imperative of yours to characterise what these kids were feeling as anger, and what they were doing as insurrection or rebellion. The people who marched to the police station on Tottenham's High Road to demand answers and an inquiry into the death of Mark Duggan -- those were demonstrators. The people kicking shop windows in, looting, and committing assault and arson? Those were simply criminals filling a power vacuum once they realised that the police were caught off guard, too few in number, and too reluctant to risk another Ian Tomlinson debacle .

Do yourself a favour, go back through the thread, watch some videos, read some interviews - with the people actually doing those things. There are people here who grew up on council estates, or know people who did. People here who have family or friends with this mindset. There are people here who have been this calibre of tearaway when they were younger themselves. This is not some new phenomenon, and its certainly not a political uprising... there is inequality and injustice in Britain today, there is always inequality and injustice in any society. But this is a time of relative plenty compared to past generations, and this kind of widespread criminal action is unprecedented.

I'm as liberal as they come for a Briton, but I know that the issue here is not just inequality or some lack of socialist ideals -- it is the lack of structure in our society, the lack of responsibility, of respect and discipline... it is the result of having 2nd and 3rd generations of families in a long line of broken homes, and unemployment, and poor education. It is the result of criminal enterprise offering more to some people than regular enterprise. That is not to say that these people have acted out of political awareness of that reality:- the people here have long known that is the reality, and they have been resourceful enough to survive it without rioting before now. Social mobility is something that people care about here. I daresay we care about it and that we are more motivated to tackle it than Obama's lot over the pond.

What has happened here is that people have acted in riotous self interest, in the knowledge that they could smash things up and take things, and burn things -- with almost complete impunity. What they weren't going to keep, they were planning to sell. Obviously a persons place in society, their wealth or lack of it, factors into their decision to take these kind of criminal risks, but what everyone here in Britain knows is this: this is not something they had to do to stay above the breadline. They are provided for in that regard. This is not something that they *wanted* to do to stick it to "the man" or something. This is something they did because they wanted new things, or because they wanted to sell things. Some of them were definitely in it for capitalist gain. The ones who committed assault and arson, and pelted the police? They were engaging in one-upsmanship with one another and brinksmanship with the law... they were having fun doing whatever they could get away with. And make no mistake, they won't be talking themselves up to their mates as though they are some kind of working class heroes: they will be gloating about what hard, 'bad' men they are and sharing stories of the things that they got away with.

Here YOU are trying to romanticise them as some sort of struggling proletariat... please.

This is a far cry from some of the riots in Britain in the 1970s and 80s, which many of us here would have probably supported... this was criminal exploitation of a power and authority vacuum.

It was exacerbated by the effect of instant news and instant messaging -- rioters were able to pick targets and to evade heavily policed areas. Yes, the same kind of dynamic, on-line mobilisation that helped actual demonstrations and opposition movements in other countries. The government talking about restricting social media in a time of crisis is purely bluster -- they know it will never fly, and they know that actually, it would make them look as bad as Iran or North Korea. I dare say that in the coming weeks, social media will actually help pin point some of the perpetrators of these crimes, because a lot of them were dumb enough to post pictures of their loot on twitpic, or gloat about their hoard on facebook. I am sure that is the conclusion the government will come to, be in no doubt all you tin foil hatters out there...

Again, f_c... watch the interviews. Hear the words. They are quite frank about it. They did it for the adventure, they did it because they could, they did it because it was a laugh, they did it for the freebies. Had they thought there was any real prospect of being caught and locked up? They wouldn't have done it for three nights running. Its that simple.

Well said.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Brand wastes his talents doing these films. He is a brilliant commentator

He even impressed Jeremy Paxman. You don't see that every day.

 

[jufonuk]

Well hopefully the police and images of them raiding people's houes and dragging them out and fast tracking them to court, has put the fear in a lot of the looters (some it will some wont) jsut make the punishment fit the crime, despite the age, if a 12 year old convicted of arson give them the same sentance you would give an adult arsonist... people on sky news tlaking how in prison if you riot automatic 10 years added on it was a major deterent, i hope this can be too, I am not trying to sound dailymail but maybe a stint in national service would do them good too, they can learn and earn as well.. they had a national armed forces day in woolwich and spoke to a navy officer about some people joining up he said at first they have a "game face on" all front etc but after a while you get them discipline and believing in themselves....

but this is all dependant on Cuts etc..

to any one who goes along the "think of those kids rights, liberty" etc the people living at home tottenham have the right be indoors sleeping and not running out for fear of their lives.

(I am not frothing at the mouth, please dont take it like that)

 

[Facism]

An update over that skank that recently boasted about stabbing a policeman with a bottle via twitter. Mate in the police says it's a bad joke and she's just blowing shit out of her arse. Typical, really.

 

[ruttyboy]

Why are people calling on the Government to 'repair broken families'? How would a Governmental body even go about this?

Surely traditionally families were kept together by pressure from the social stigma and religious groups?

 

[Meus Renaissance]

He even impressed Jeremy Paxman. You don't see that every day.

I actually thought Paxman was out of his depth in that interview. It was as if he was listening to someone speaking Japanese

 

[Strummerjones]

An update over that skank that recently boasted about stabbing a policeman with a bottle via twitter. Mate in the police says it's a bad joke and she's just blowing shit out of her arse. Typical, really.

Something that people in this thread told you repeatedly, and could be confirmed by less than five minutes digging through his tweeting history. I dread to think how many Police hours are going to be wasted by nitwits reporting obvious Twitter joke accounts to them.

 

[Facism]

Something that people in this thread told you repeatedly, and could be confirmed by less than five minutes digging through his tweeting history. I dread to think how many Police hours are going to be wasted by nitwits reporting obvious Twitter joke accounts to them.

Oh calm down

 

[Prine]

Why are people calling on the Government to 'repair broken families'? How would a Governmental body even go about this?

Surely traditionally families were kept together by pressure from the social stigma and religious groups?

AS much as i hate helping people that don't want to be helped, the only way things will improve is by investing into these homes. And that does mean we'll have to pick up the bill, but as a long term fix it seems like the most sensible and rational policy to promote.

Its disgusting that people need further help and training for the most basic of values, its ludicrous that we have to go out of our way to tell people robbing and vandalizing is a wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that these people believe it to be ok given 'their' circumstances.

We cant throw them on a ship and plot a course to Australia, the longer we ignore the feral underclass the worse its going to get.

Im saying this but my gut is in knots conceding that they deserve more attention and sympathy. Argh.

Burn those that were responsible for the riots though, work on the new generation.

 

[ruttyboy]

AS much as i hate helping people that don't want to be helped, the only way things will improve is by investing into these homes. And that does mean we'll have to pick up the bill, but as a long term fix it seems like the most sensible and rational policy to promote.

Its disgusting that people need further help and training for the most basic of values, its ludicrous that we have to go out of our way to tell people robbing and vandalizing is a wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that these people believe it to be ok given 'their' circumstances.

We cant throw them on a ship and plot a course to Australia, the longer we ignore the feral underclass the worse its going to get.

Im saying this but my gut is in knots conceding that they deserve more attention and sympathy. Argh.

Burn those that were responsible for the riots though, work on the new generation.

That's not quite what I meant, although admittedly I phrased my original question badly. I didn't mean broken as in 'they have no values', I meant broken as in 'the parents are no longer together'.

Listening to the politicians they seem to be implying that they can actively, directly prevent parents from splitting up (as in divorces and separations) through some sort of targeted policy. Surely that's insane?

 

[Meadows]

Just spent time reading the last 50 or so pages, and felt disgusted at most of what I saw from posters here. There isn't a problem in the youth today. I and nearly all of the people I grew up with are well adjusted. You know why? Because we had parents that cared.

To say that we should bring back corporal punishment or army conscription is missing the point, it shouldn't be the state's job to bring up kids, it should be the job of parents.

There isn't a problem with the youth, there's a problem with the parents. If you or I had kids that were running around Manchester throwing bricks through windows we'd be disciplining them appropriately. Putting discipline into the hands of the state takes further responsibility from the parents, they can just say "oh I won't discipline little Steven because the teacher/government/police will do it".

No. The buck stops with the parents. These kids aren't evil, that 11 y.o. wasn't robbing the wine because he was a born criminal, it was because his parents didn't give a shit because they've spent their lives letting someone else be responsible for their own lives, let alone their kids.

Parents have to be more responsible for their kids if we want things to get better. Leaving it up to the state solves nothing.

 

[ruttyboy]

Just spent time reading the last 50 or so pages, and felt disgusted at most of what I saw from posters here. There isn't a problem in the youth today. I and nearly all of the people I grew up with are well adjusted. You know why? Because we had parents that cared.

To say that we should bring back corporal punishment or army conscription is missing the point, it shouldn't be the state's job to bring up kids, it should be the job of parents.

There isn't a problem with the youth, there's a problem with the parents. If you or I had kids that were running around Manchester throwing bricks through windows we'd be disciplining them appropriately. Putting discipline into the hands of the state takes further responsibility from the parents, they can just say "oh I won't discipline little Steven because the teacher/government/police will do it".

No. The buck stops with the parents. These kids aren't evil, that 11 y.o. wasn't robbing the wine because he was a born criminal, it was because his parents didn't give a shit because they've spent their lives letting someone else be responsible for their own lives, let alone their kids.

Parents have to be more responsible for their kids if we want things to get better. Leaving it up to the state solves nothing.

Agreed, but how do you then make the parents take responsibility, leave that up to the Government too?

 

[SmokyDave]

Parents have to be more responsible for their kids if we want things to get better. Leaving it up to the state solves nothing.

How do you propose we make parents more responsible?

 

[jufonuk]

AS much as i hate helping people that don't want to be helped, the only way things will improve is by investing into these homes. And that does mean we'll have to pick up the bill, but as a long term fix it seems like the most sensible and rational policy to promote.

Its disgusting that people need further help and training for the most basic of values, its ludicrous that we have to go out of our way to tell people robbing and vandalizing is a wrong. But that doesn't change the fact that these people believe it to be ok given 'their' circumstances.

We cant throw them on a ship and plot a course to Australia, the longer we ignore the feral underclass the worse its going to get.

Im saying this but my gut is in knots conceding that they deserve more attention and sympathy. Argh.

Burn those that were responsible for the riots though, work on the new generation.

Great so the actions of a few are going to put the working classes in more debt.. let the bankers get bailed out and let those that perpitrated these riots get help to get them on their feet by paying out for more??...only do it if the punishment is fair...will it help these people out? time will tell, I got a beter Idea

I am all for people getting helped out, Parenting classes are a good idea so long as these parents take the instructions, attend and pass on the lessons.. that is the hardest part to achieve.

Bring back apprenticeships, create more oppertunities for work, National Service, make prisons something to fear, tougher sentencing. they need deterents.. tax the bankers more use it to invest in the future, also raise the minimum wage,lower prices of food living travel etc ...will it work? would the government do it?

we are in a global financial crisis..the money has to come from somewhere, I freely admit the thought of paying for these scrots to go on "training for values" etc irk's me... everything is going up and they are always looking to the working class people to pay for it...used to be in life you got told if you work hard etc you go far, I been working my ass for ages my wages parely go up, neither do the wages of my friends, yet we see the people that started these riots on the streets driving around on Mopeds, wearing pristine clothes, ipod's talking about thier playstation 3's (i didn't get one too expensive) yeah so excuse me for being selfish by getting annoyed... we are all feeling the pinch, so now they are going to squash us, awesome

The divide is no longer Middle class versus Working class it feels like the haves (Bankers, those who put the house prices sky high high) the just trying to get by and improve (the working classes, by working I mean anyone who works) and the people who are responisible for raising the looters.... what kind of message is this goign to give my son? work hard at school if you get a normal job you are fucked, if you are lucky to work in the banks hey awesome go for it, otherwise don't give a fuck about anything, treat the hard working public like shit and we'll pay you to do this..

(I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, those who want to work and can't should be able to, Help those who help themselves is what I am saying and I am all for it)

I may have contridicted my self in this rant, I am not frothing I am hoping I come across as level headed (maybe) I hope.. awoo

/rant

 

[equap]

Suspected rioter David O'Neill leaves court Thursday in London after posting bail on charges, including aggravated violence.

look at this clown

 

[J Tourettes]

Great so the actions of a few are going to put the working classes in more debt.. let the bankers get bailed out and let those that perpitrated these riots get help to get them on their feet by paying out for more??...only do it if the punishment is fair...will it help these people out? time will tell, I got a beter Idea

I am all for people getting helped out, Parenting classes are a good idea so long as these parents take the instructions, attend and pass on the lessons.. that is the hardest part to achieve.

Bring back apprenticeships, create more oppertunities for work, National Service, make prisons something to fear, tougher sentencing. they need deterents.. tax the bankers more use it to invest in the future, also raise the minimum wage,lower prices of food living travel etc ...will it work? would the government do it?

we are in a global financial crisis..the money has to come from somewhere, I freely admit the thought of paying for these scrots to go on "training for values" etc irk's me... everything is going up and they are always looking to the working class people to pay for it...used to be in life you got told if you work hard etc you go far, I been working my ass for ages my wages parely go up, neither do the wages of my friends, yet we see the people that started these riots on the streets driving around on Mopeds, wearing pristine clothes, ipod's talking about thier playstation 3's (i didn't get one too expensive) yeah so excuse me for being selfish by getting annoyed... we are all feeling the pinch, so now they are going to squash us, awesome

The divide is no longer Middle class versus Working class it feels like the haves (Bankers, those who put the house prices sky high high) the just trying to get by and improve (the working classes, by working I mean anyone who works) and the people who are responisible for raising the looters.... what kind of message is this goign to give my son? work hard at school if you get a normal job you are fucked, if you are lucky to work in the banks hey awesome go for it, otherwise don't give a fuck about anything, treat the hard working public like shit and we'll pay you to do this..

(I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, those who want to work and can't should be able to, Help those who help themselves is what I am saying and I am all for it)

I may have contridicted my self in this rant, I am not frothing I am hoping I come across as level headed (maybe) I hope.. awoo

/rant

Working class and middle class is still a valid distinction IMO.

 

[Furret]

Just spent time reading the last 50 or so pages, and felt disgusted at most of what I saw from posters here. There isn't a problem in the youth today. I and nearly all of the people I grew up with are well adjusted. You know why? Because we had parents that cared.

To say that we should bring back corporal punishment or army conscription is missing the point, it shouldn't be the state's job to bring up kids, it should be the job of parents.

There isn't a problem with the youth, there's a problem with the parents. If you or I had kids that were running around Manchester throwing bricks through windows we'd be disciplining them appropriately. Putting discipline into the hands of the state takes further responsibility from the parents, they can just say "oh I won't discipline little Steven because the teacher/government/police will do it".

No. The buck stops with the parents. These kids aren't evil, that 11 y.o. wasn't robbing the wine because he was a born criminal, it was because his parents didn't give a shit because they've spent their lives letting someone else be responsible for their own lives, let alone their kids.

Parents have to be more responsible for their kids if we want things to get better. Leaving it up to the state solves nothing.

This post makes no sense, how are you going to make parents more responsible without the involvement of the state?

The status quo has failed, change - and serious change - is necessary.

 

[thelatestmodel]

Just spent time reading the last 50 or so pages, and felt disgusted at most of what I saw from posters here. There isn't a problem in the youth today. I and nearly all of the people I grew up with are well adjusted. You know why? Because we had parents that cared.

To say that we should bring back corporal punishment or army conscription is missing the point, it shouldn't be the state's job to bring up kids, it should be the job of parents.

There isn't a problem with the youth, there's a problem with the parents. If you or I had kids that were running around Manchester throwing bricks through windows we'd be disciplining them appropriately. Putting discipline into the hands of the state takes further responsibility from the parents, they can just say "oh I won't discipline little Steven because the teacher/government/police will do it".

No. The buck stops with the parents. These kids aren't evil, that 11 y.o. wasn't robbing the wine because he was a born criminal, it was because his parents didn't give a shit because they've spent their lives letting someone else be responsible for their own lives, let alone their kids.

Parents have to be more responsible for their kids if we want things to get better. Leaving it up to the state solves nothing.

Slightly flawed logic here. There can't not be a problem with the youth if there is a problem with their parents. One is a result of the other, terrible parents raise terrible kids.

 

[Meadows]

How do you propose we make parents more responsible?

In the UK we're always worrying about how the government can fix all of our problems, well this is one we can't fix. Look at Socialisation theory (yeah, I'm bringing in the Sociology that everyone seems to hate).

Primary Socialisation Agent: The Family
Secondary Socialisation Agents: Everyone else, Government, Education, Police, Religion etc.

We make parents more responsible by making the Government less responsible. The state can't do it. Ask any teacher, ask any police officer, ask any carer. I don't know how we make parents responsible tbh, maybe through establishing a community logic in the people (not just some big society bollocks), but doing it the way we are isn't working. Our tax money can go to better things.

 

[jufonuk]

Working class and middle class is still a valid distinction IMO.

no worries, I jsut dont want to come across as nut job dailymail reading fool...

I think this is the Anger phase of grief we are all feeling, I doubt I can fully accept the justification they felt for fireboming shops etc, but I can see the reasoning for the the initial protests, shame they had to turn out the way it did.....

 

[SmokyDave]

In the UK we're always worrying about how the government can fix all of our problems, well this is one we can't fix. Look at Socialisation theory (yeah, I'm bringing in the Sociology that everyone seems to hate).

Primary Socialisation Agent: The Family
Secondary Socialisation Agents: Everyone else, Government, Education, Police, Religion etc.

We make parents more responsible by making the Government less responsible. The state can't do it. Ask any teacher, ask any police officer, ask any carer. I don't know how we make parents responsible tbh, but doing it the way we are isn't working. Our tax money can go to better things.

I cannot imagine a single viable way to 'make parents more responsible'. Future generations, sure, but the current gen needs fixing first.

 

[Meadows]

I cannot imagine a single viable way to 'make parents more responsible'. Future generations, sure, but the current gen needs fixing first.

Community, we lost it after Thatcher and globalisation. Let's bring it back.

 

[iapetus]

I cannot imagine a single viable way to 'make parents more responsible'. Future generations, sure, but the current gen needs fixing first.

Some people are going to suggest making parents legally responsible for the actions of their offspring - if the kids commit crimes, punish the parents as well.

Community, we lost it after Thatcher and globalisation. Let's bring it back.

A lot of the public response to the riots, in the form of clean-up and fundraising for people who lost out in the riots would suggest otherwise.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Community, we lost it after Thatcher and globalisation. Let's bring it back.

Not true, I went to help clean up this morning before work and there were all kinds of people there helping out. If there was no community no one would be there helping out.

 

[Meadows]

A lot of the public response to the riots, in the form of clean-up and fundraising for people who lost out in the riots would suggest otherwise.

100 people putting their brooms up for a picture in London =/= countrywide community spirit.

I admit my statement about us "losing" community was hyperbolic, but we're missing a great deal of the communal spirit I see in Taiwan, France or Spain.

 

[J Tourettes]

no worries, I jsut dont want to come across as nut job dailymail reading fool...

I think this is the Anger phase of grief we are all feeling, I doubt I can fully accept the justification they felt for fireboming shops etc, but I can see the reasoning for the the initial protests, shame they had to turn out the way it did.....

I do agree that there does seem to be an underclass of benefit dependants. Only pulled you up on it as growing up on a council estate makes you acutely aware of class divides, even if you cross the line to a different class as you get older.

 

[Prine]

Great so the actions of a few are going to put the working classes in more debt.. let the bankers get bailed out and let those that perpitrated these riots get help to get them on their feet by paying out for more??...only do it if the punishment is fair...will it help these people out? time will tell, I got a beter Idea

I am all for people getting helped out, Parenting classes are a good idea so long as these parents take the instructions, attend and pass on the lessons.. that is the hardest part to achieve.

Bring back apprenticeships, create more oppertunities for work, National Service, make prisons something to fear, tougher sentencing. they need deterents.. tax the bankers more use it to invest in the future, also raise the minimum wage,lower prices of food living travel etc ...will it work? would the government do it?

we are in a global financial crisis..the money has to come from somewhere, I freely admit the thought of paying for these scrots to go on "training for values" etc irk's me... everything is going up and they are always looking to the working class people to pay for it...used to be in life you got told if you work hard etc you go far, I been working my ass for ages my wages parely go up, neither do the wages of my friends, yet we see the people that started these riots on the streets driving around on Mopeds, wearing pristine clothes, ipod's talking about thier playstation 3's (i didn't get one too expensive) yeah so excuse me for being selfish by getting annoyed... we are all feeling the pinch, so now they are going to squash us, awesome

The divide is no longer Middle class versus Working class it feels like the haves (Bankers, those who put the house prices sky high high) the just trying to get by and improve (the working classes, by working I mean anyone who works) and the people who are responisible for raising the looters.... what kind of message is this goign to give my son? work hard at school if you get a normal job you are fucked, if you are lucky to work in the banks hey awesome go for it, otherwise don't give a fuck about anything, treat the hard working public like shit and we'll pay you to do this..

(I am not tarring everyone with the same brush, those who want to work and can't should be able to, Help those who help themselves is what I am saying and I am all for it)

I may have contridicted my self in this rant, I am not frothing I am hoping I come across as level headed (maybe) I hope.. awoo

/rant

Its unfortunate that we have to sacrifice given we're already struggling but for us to live in safe and progressive environment we have to take care of the scum. We'll be better off because of it, even if we improve their lives a little while we continue to struggle. It seems like a unjust sacrifice on our behalf. I hate the idea myself...but i cant see any other way.

But then they may continue to take liberties , given the underclass are looked after much better than 30 yrs ago.

 

[Ashes]

Not true, I went to help clean up this morning before work and there were all kinds of people there helping out. If there was no community no one would be there helping out.

Out of interest, how big was this community? A few streets? a neighbourhood? a borough? or did you volunteer in another deprived part of London?

 

[SmokyDave]

Community, we lost it after Thatcher and globalisation. Let's bring it back.

Huh, okay, that's a good answer but it will take a lot of work to rebuild communities where they are lacking in the nation. A lot of people will want to bury their heads and forget the events earlier on this week (provided we don't get a reminder when the weekend arrives). Business as usual, none of the problems solved, just the crappiest rioters arrested.

Some people are going to suggest making parents legally responsible for the actions of their offspring - if the kids commit crimes, punish the parents as well.

Should have happened years ago but it won't.

 

[Prine]

Parents charged for their childrens crimes is a great idea imo. Would this increase homeless kids though?

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Out of interest, how big was this community? A few streets? a neighbourhood? a borough? or did you volunteer in another deprived part of London?

No, in Enfield, my local area, about 50 or 60 people cleaning up the high street, sweeping up glass and helping shops board up windows while they wait for window people to come. There are people all over London volunteering today, a few of my colleagues did the same as me yesterday and this morning.

 

[broadwayrock]

Make the parents do community service in their local town centre and dress them up in highly embarrassing costumes.

Public humiliation will be more effective than jail time or fines for these parents.

 

[Speedymanic]

Make the parents do community service in their local town centre and dress them up in highly embarrassing costumes.

Public humiliation will be more effective than jail time or fines for these parents.

HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATION!

Seriously, I absolutely agree. Public humiliation is one tactic we haven't used to any great effect, it needs to be used more as I'm sure it'd act as a deterrent for some people.

 

[Meadows]

You see those Sikhs/Muslims defending their districts? You know why they did that? Because they are a community. Why? Because they share something in common, in this case religious values.

Others in the UK need something in common to rally around in the UK for us to solve this problem of endemic over-individualisation, and that isn't necessarily religion for most of us. Tbh I dunno, a war or something? Worked in the blitz, although obviously we can't just declare war on France to rekindle communal spirit.

Spoiler

we should declare war on France to rekindle community spirit

 

[The Incarnation]

Make the parents do community service in their local town centre and dress them up in highly embarrassing costumes.

Public humiliation will be more effective than jail time or fines for these parents.

What happens to the teachers that are supposed to be educating them in the schools they go to?

Should they pay as well, considering most kids spend more time at school than with their parents after the age of 4.

 

[Speedymanic]

You see those Sikhs/Muslims defending their districts? You know why they did that? Because they are a community. Why? Because they share something in common, in this case religious values.

Others in the UK need something in common to rally around in the UK for us to solve this problem of endemic over-individualisation, and that isn't necessarily religion for most of us. Tbh I dunno, a war or something? Worked in the blitz, although obviously we can't just declare war on France to rekindle communal spirit.

Spoiler

we should declare war on France to rekindle community spirit

Never happen. People are too fractured, even within the same neighbourhoods...

In any case, we don't need to work on communities, we need to work on giving parents some rights back to discipline their kids. I know some might laugh, but the truth is that parents are now too scared to discipline their kids properly for a number of reasons. (kids calling the cops, social services getting involved, etc)

These days it's the naughty corner, naughty step, etc, that doesn't instill discipline, it only shows kids that no matter how bad you've been, all your parents can/will do is make you sit/stand somewhere for a few hours. Hardly something to fear, which in turn makes them think that the same will apply in the real world.

The naughty step/stair wasn't something that was even considered in my house, if I messed up, I'd get a good talking to, really messed up (and I do mean really messed up) and you knew that you were about to be get a beating...but it instilled discipline.

 

[SmokyDave]

What happens to the teachers that are supposed to be educating them in the schools they go to?

Should they pay as well, considering most kids spend more time at school than with their parents after the age of 4.

Don't be daft. They may act in loco parentis but we removed their ability to do that properly years ago. We need to give them more power to discipline, not discipline them.

 

[ruttyboy]

What happens to the teachers that are supposed to be educating them in the schools they go to?

Should they pay as well, considering most kids spend more time at school than with their parents after the age of 4.

They get given the powers (and support) to control the kids properly.

 

[The Incarnation]

An update over that skank that recently boasted about stabbing a policeman with a bottle via twitter. Mate in the police says it's a bad joke and she's just blowing shit out of her arse. Typical, really.

*Shocker*

Perhaps if you had the sense to read, you'd of seen that he was an American from New Jersey.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

My friend posted this a while ago on Facebook:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darcus_Howe



Seems like someone has edited the Wikipedia site recently, as Google still shows this:

Sorry was just watching the Darcus Howe video again, did your friend also forget to quote the part about him being acquitted?

And he didn't mention about his son being an angel, he said his grandson.

Just wondering that's all; it's been a big thread

 

[The Incarnation]

They get given the powers (and support) to control the kids properly.

They won't be though, perhaps they could start by hiring more male teachers though. Though kids are sly these days, who would want to do that knowing that any kid could accuse you of Paedophilia.

 

[Tom_Cody]

Even the rioters will tell you what's really going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmsKGhLdZuQ

From the best riot ever.

That is one of the best youtube videos I've ever seen.

 

[ruttyboy]

They won't be though, perhaps they could start by hiring more male teachers though. Though kids are sly these days, who would want to do that knowing that any kid could accuse you of Paedophilia.

I thought we were talking what should happen, not what will happen.

 

[The Incarnation]

I thought we were talking what should happen, not what will happen.

Complete waste of time talking about what should happen.

Couldn't give a toss about what should happen.

 

[smarties00]

Good interview with the mother who called the police on her daughter. She seemed really supportive. More parents should do the same.

 

[The Incarnation]

Good interview with the mother who called the police on her daughter. She seemed really supportive. More parents should do the same.

Shame, though. She has probably lost a daughter for good there..

Shopping your own daughter to make yourself look good for the public.

Would of been better if she had the sense to stay anonymous. She might manage to get on a reality TV show in the future, so it's all good.

Cynical I know, but this is the English public we're talking about.

 

[ruttyboy]

Complete waste of time talking about what should happen.

Couldn't give a toss about what should happen.

But... your original question was posed in response to someone talking about what should happen? It even included the word 'should' 0_o

 

[The Incarnation]

But... your original question was posed in response to someone talking about what should happen? It even included the word 'should' 0_o

Whatever, get over it. Bickering over bollocks.

 

[ruttyboy]

Whatever, get over it. Bickering over bollocks.

O...K...