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London riots spreading through UK

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BocoDragon said:
I don't think it's realistic at all for the Olympics to be re-located. They've been planning it for 6 years.


Personally I think they should lose it. No disrespect to Londoners but I have a feeling that because of the popularity of the event and the social, political and economic state throughout the U.K, it would be safer to do so.
 
Why do the police fuck things up on peaceful protests, but then when shit really hits the fan they just stand there and block off a few roads. Shit needs to change. 3:30am... not sure whether or not to go to bed... I'm just so shocked over all this.
 

gerg

Member
Vivalaraza said:
Ashamed to be a Londoner tonight. This is a magnificent city. We need to quash these pests.

Me too. : (

London is the best city in the world. I never expected for there to be such disillusion and anger, but I guess I enjoy too much of a sheltered, northern-suburb lifestyle.
 
My friend's daughter saw a photoshopped pic of Big Ben on fire and believed it.

She said "Don't tell me it's a photoshop", and I said "it's a photoshop", and she told me to shut up.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
BlazingDarkness said:
The eyewitness account in Liverpool about sums this up
300 scumbags running riot, setting alight cars and smashing/looting stores, and all the police are doing is lining up and cutting off roads, following the rioters as they fuck shit up, but not doing anything else. They're just funnelling them further along to trash other stores.
Yeah, people are gonna end up backlashing against the police force on this one. That is utterly retarded.
 
Vita pushed back to Holiday 2012 in the UK. Thanks Guys!

Jeez, you can't play Call of Duty online for one month and people start getting all kinds of pissy.


Who wants to bet that the whoever started that fire is "sympathetic" to the AntiSec Collective?
 
Margalis said:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-137302.html

"I am hopeful the settlement recognizes the tremendous loss to them and represents our acceptance in the role the police played in that tragedy," Police Commissioner Kathleen O'Toole said.

O'Toole said Snelgrove was an innocent bystander and had not "engaged in any activity that would have led police to think that she was behaving unlawfully."

The POLICE COMMISSIONER said she was not behaving unlawfully.

Please, stop celebrating the death of an innocent girl and repeatedly lying about how and why it happened.

Just stop. You have lied about this what, six times now?

Not lying, I just believe that regardless of the collective handwringing because a cute girl died, that she has only herself to blame for being in the situation. more details from the incident:

"By Tom Farmer and Dave Wedge
Friday, October 22, 2004
http://news.bostonherald.com/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=50315

The sequence of events that led to the death of an Emerson College student began when a half-dozen officers on horseback were surrounded by rioting Red Sox fans on Lansdowne Street about 1:30 a.m. yesterday, witnesses said.

By the time armor-clad cops dispersed the crowd of some 3,000 in the shadow of Fenway Park's Green Monster, Victoria Snelgrove, 21, lay fatally injured. She had been struck in the eye by one of a number of pepper balls fired by police to quell unruly fans throwing bottles and bricks.

``The cops (on horseback) pushed in and the people closed in behind them,'' said Emerson student Brett Schweinberg, 18, who was struck by two pepper projectiles fired by police while trying to scale the Green Monster.

``They were surrounded by people and a bottle landed near a horse and it spooked it. It faltered and it got jittery and 30 to 40 seconds later, cops turned around and fired at a group of people about 20 feet to my left. People scattered except for one girl who was bleeding from the nose and mouth.''

A Herald reporter in the midst of the crowd saw revelry turn to mob mentality. Several people tried to scale the Green Monster, at least one of whom plummeted to the ground after being shot by a projectile.

Small fires burned, street signs were torn down and trash barrels were tossed about as police struggled to control the increasingly hostile crowd. Several cars became trapped by walls of people while drivers spun their tires and blared stereos - some with people riding on the roof. Several bottles were thrown, one of which reportedly struck a police officer, breaking his nose.

The shot that killed Snelgrove followed a standoff between a cop on horseback and a young man wearing a gray knit hat. Standing by a bustling sausage cart, the man refused the officer's orders to move, prompting the officer to reach down and toss him to the ground. After getting up, the man hurled profanities at the cop and made several obscene gestures.

More bottles were thrown as at least one riot cop fired projectiles into the crowd, one of which apparently struck Snelgrove. The girl had been standing by the sausage cart with friends.

She immediately fell to the ground while her friends tended to her, rubbing her head as blood streamed from her face. Horrified onlookers shouted ``get an ambulance'' as the girl drifted in and out of consciousness. One of the riot cops checked on the girl briefly. Approximately five minutes after she collapsed, mounted police cleared a path for an ambulance and the girl was taken away.

As cops cleared the crowd, one young man who had been standing near Snelgrove shouted at police, ``Are you happy? Murderers!''

One officer was stunned at the ferocity of the violence. ``I saw the horses surrounded,'' he said. ``It was like a vacuum. They got sucked in. I saw guys holding small trees they had pulled out of the ground like warriors. They were holding steel sign posts they had bent over and broken. We had to fight to get control.''"


It is a sad thing that she died, and it was a freak accident. That said, she was not an "innocent bystander" no more than the people on the streets of London right now are innocent bystanders...


Everyone who failed to disperse was breaking the law, not an innocent bystander. She had more than enough time to leave. The innocent people are the ones who obeyed the police and left the area. And shocker, NONE of them got shot with a pepperball.
 

thefro

Member
Pretty pathetic for a city the size of London to not be prepared for something like this.

Probably need to call in the Army to clean up like what happened in LA after Rodney King.
 
Scythian Empire said:
Why do the police fuck things up on peaceful protests, but then when shit really hits the fan they just stand there and block off a few roads. Shit needs to change. 3:30am... not sure whether or not to go to bed... I'm just so shocked over all this.

Because students and normal people can't/don't fight back, now that they have a genuine riot situation they don't have a fucking clue what to do.
 
BlazingDarkness said:
The eyewitness account in Liverpool about sums this up
300 scumbags running riot, setting alight cars and smashing/looting stores, and all the police are doing is lining up and cutting off roads, following the rioters as they fuck shit up, but not doing anything else. They're just funnelling them further along to trash other stores.

The problem is if you charge them in the wrong area, particularly in that area of Liverpool, they'll literally run like rats down the hole. There's tons of dark sidestreets and back alleys in Toxteth, and the kids know it better than the police. Better to keep them together and lead them into a better area to confront them than allow them to scatter and reform elsewhere.

Relieved they didn't manage to torch the City Centre, or fuck it up too much. A few broken windows isn't bad compared to what might have been. Hopefully the sun will rise tomorrow and we can keep a lid on this up here.
 

Margalis

Banned
outunderthestars said:
Not lying, I just believe that regardless of the collective handwringing because a cute girl died, that she has only herself to blame for being in the situation. more details from the incident:

No, you are lying. You said she was committing a felony. She was not, period.

Everyone who failed to disperse was breaking the law, not an innocent bystander.

The Boston Police Commissioner disagrees. Again:

O'Toole said Snelgrove was an innocent bystander and had not "engaged in any activity that would have led police to think that she was behaving unlawfully."

You have been caught lying. So stop.
 
FredianiITV Richard Frediani
24 year old man shot and seriously hurt in Aintree. Merseyside Police appealing for witnesses. Unclear if linked to trouble in Liverpool.

Fuckin' ell... this is where I'm from and my brothers are 24 turning 25, 25 turning 26 respectively.

Happened around Wango Lane I think...
 

Tzeentch

Member
speedpop said:
stating that the death of a rioter (who was forewarned about the consequences for their action) from a shock occurrence should be the model for non-violent authority?
-- She wasn't a rioter. Innocent bystander. But hey, keep repeating it and maybe it will be true. And yes, I do see a difference between getting shot in the eye and getting killed in some freak accident.
 
Margalis said:
No, you are lying. You said she was committing a felony. She was not, period.


O'Toole said Snelgrove was an innocent bystander and had not "engaged in any activity that would have led police to think that she was behaving unlawfully."

The Boston Police Commissioner disagrees.

The police commissioner was doing damage control. Failure to disperse in and of itself is acting unlawfully.

It is not lying to disagree with a political official saving face. Saying it over and over against doesn't change the fact that I simply disagree with you.
 

sullyj

Member
I guess I should have worded it differently when asking about the riots and the upcoming Olympics. If the police can not handle bunch of youths rioting, burning, looting general mayhem etc. How in the hell can the be expected to deal with a terrorist attack? I get the whole we don't like to use violence, guns, tear gas, rubber bullets etc. but come on. Seems to paint the entire city as a place of pushover police. Issue a curfew/Marshall law order, release the dogs of war, problem solved.
 

Xun

Member
Scythian Empire said:
Why do the police fuck things up on peaceful protests, but then when shit really hits the fan they just stand there and block off a few roads. Shit needs to change. 3:30am... not sure whether or not to go to bed... I'm just so shocked over all this.
Definitely.

I want sleep, but at the same time, I do not. :/
 

Sealda

Banned
Every time i update this thread and sees that the new replies are about some bullshit discussion about some thing happening in Boston 7 years ago, i get so damn disappointed!
 

traveler

Not Wario
Regardless of whether the Boston girl was innocent or not, the idea that police should be afraid to use what are non-lethal means of enforcing the law 99.9% of the time because an innocent bystander could be hit in such a way that they might die when looters/rioters are damaging tons of property with fire, which seems to me to have a much greater chance of killing someone, seems a bit ludicrous.
 
shadyspace said:
This story's a blurb in the US media. Reading through this thread is nuts.

To be fair there was a centerpiece photo of the rioting today in The Washington Post. Of course the story was burried on like page 8 though.

Maybe it's because we are kind of used to this (police shootings, not large scale riots)
Maybe it's because we have such a screwed up gun culture or I'm just a cynical bastard, but I was honestly, as an American, surprised by the rioting somewhat.

Don't get me wrong. It's horrible that an innocent man, albeit an innocent man with a criminal record, was killed. At least that's what I've gleened from this thread. But why not let the justice system handle it?

I mean, in America, those cops that just decided to kill random black people after Katrina were just convicted. There was that police shooting in I think New York where the guy was shot like 70 times on his wedding day and nobody rioted.

Is this like those riots in France a few years ago that kind of exposed how crappy minorities' lives are in some countries or are these just oppourtunistic folk rioting and looting for rioting and looting's sake?
 
Sealda said:
Every time i update this thread and sees that the new replies are about some bullshit discussion about some thing happening in Boston 7 years ago, i get so damn disappointed!

Sorry, I think that discussion has reached its end anyhow. I'll stop fueling it. :)
 

gerg

Member
sullyj said:
Seems to paint the entire city as a place of pushover police. Issue a curfew/Marshall law order, release the dogs of war, problem solved.

As terrible as these riots are, let's not pretend that they're occurring everywhere.

I have no doubt that the recent events will probably lead to an investigation and overhaul of current policing methods, especially in the relatively deprived areas where the rioting has been taking place, but I also doubt that Al-Qaeda are exactly rubbing their hands, thinking "This is the time to strike!"

And, as for how London can deal with a terrorist attack, well, guess what, it already has.

Edit: Actually, wow, looking at that Google map you really do get the feeling that the whole place is turning to shit.
 
radioheadrule83 said:
Fuckin' ell... this is where I'm from and my brothers are 24 turning 25, 25 turning 26 respectively.

Happened around Wango Lane I think...

Sounds like a seperate incident. All the trouble is down in Toxteth. If it's in Old Roan or round there it wouldn't shock me massively...
 

Margalis

Banned
outunderthestars said:
Saying it over and over against doesn't change the fact that I simply disagree with you.

This is not a matter of opinion - it's a matter of law.

In this country we have something called "the justice system" that determines whether or not someone is committing a felony. Your opinion is completely irrelevant.

But please, continue claiming that she was committing a felony. Because that's totally how the justice system works - a random poster on Neogaf says someone was committing a felony and that makes it true, even though neither the court nor the Police nor the state or federal governments agree!

Get real. You've been caught lying, just admit it and move on.
 

marrec

Banned
GillianSeed79 said:
Don't get me wrong. It's horrible that an innocent man, albeit an innocent man with a criminal record, was killed. At least that's what I've gleened from this thread. But why not let the justice system handle it?

I don't think he's been proven innocent... It's pretty much confirmed that he had a weapon, the only question was if he fired at officers.

Unless I've missed some major update.
 
Scythian Empire said:
Why do the police fuck things up on peaceful protests, but then when shit really hits the fan they just stand there and block off a few roads. Shit needs to change. 3:30am... not sure whether or not to go to bed... I'm just so shocked over all this.

That aspect of this is actually quite annoying. When they've got special interests to protect, politicians attending a G20 summit, a power plant with hippies protesting, the politicians responsible for the student fee protests etc. they go in mob handed, kettle people, push them about, and people get their skulls cracked by batons. Hundreds of feral kids have been running around tonight, getting pissed up, setting fire to cars and businesses and homes, and stealing from every shop in sight... they've just stood there and cordoned off roads after the damage was already done.

I appreciate that this isn't an easy thing to deal with and that it keeps moving, but they need to be tougher than this. I hope that, as they did at the student protests, they've been photographing and filming people. I just have a horrible feeling that so many people are going to get away with murder tonight... hopefully not literally.
 

Dead Man

Member
Hope all the UK gaffers are okay in all this. For what it's worth, I think the police are correct to not use aggressive tactics unless lives are in danger. Property is replaceable. Some stupid kid killed because group dynamics got out of control is not.
 
Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.
 

ag-my001

Member
Does anyone have a link to a good map of the London metro area? I'm following all this on BBC News but my knowledge of English geography doesn't extend beyond the major counties.
 
Gaz Pwnage said:
Tell that to the guy who was shot in Aintree =\

Of course I'm sorry that someone's been shot. Don't imply I'm not. I'm merely saying that gunshots aren't uncommon in Liverpool, or most other major cities.
 

gerg

Member
Dead Man said:
For what it's worth, I think the police are correct to not use aggressive tactics unless lives are in danger. Property is replaceable. Some stupid kid killed because group dynamics got out of control is not.

Exactly. What seems to be fuelling these events is the widely-held feeling that society at large doesn't care and won't offer anything for these youths in the future. Hard police tactics that may lead to needless deaths won't exactly help stem those troubles - the police have a hard time in these areas as it is.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
RunWhiteBoyRun said:
Don't wanna get killed or hurt at a riot/mass gathering that is told to disperse? DON'T FUCKING BE THERE.

Indeed, I'd say though that it's not like being a bystander/passerby at a protest/demonstration, such as the case was with Ian Tomlinson, it's a fucking riot for fucks sake, stay away or pay the price when the shit hits the fan, not exactly rocket science.
 
Dead Man said:
Hope all the UK gaffers are okay in all this. For what it's worth, I think the police are correct to not use aggressive tactics unless lives are in danger. Property is replaceable. Some stupid kid killed because group dynamics got out of control is not.

Riots tend to get worse as time goes on. Should they wait until someone is pulled out of a car and hit in the head with a brick before clearing the streets?

And it is easy to say that property is replaceable, but why should innocent citizens have to pay to replace their property because the police refused to do anything about it?
 

Hyphen

Member
Ookami-kun said:
How's LondonGAF doing? =/

Embarassed... to see these idiots destroying the livelihoods, and scaring the crap out of innocent people.
Ashamed... to be part of a city that I was trumpeting just a few days ago.
Shocked... at the scale of the violence. I had no idea that this would have gone this far.
Fearful... of seeing "breaking news" that the riots/looting has spread to my street (virtually shit myself when I saw Brixton Footlocker on fire, and Curry's being looted).
Relieved... that my father and niece made it home safely from work.
Tired...
 

gerg

Member
_Xenon_ said:
So it's not even a protest, just shitheads mopping the city. Why not just shoot them?

Because even shitheads deserve to live, unfortunately.

TBH, it's very easy to understand the sentiment behind these people's actions. Solving these issues will rely on a lot more than tough policing.
 

Khal_B

Member
kyo_daikun said:
Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.

Holy shit. Forget tear gas. These animals need to be put down.
 
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