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[sullyj]

Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.

Yikes. If that is at all true, what as a Brit are you allowed to do to an intruder? Hope the cops show up with their batons?

 

[Dead Man]

Riots tend to get worse as time goes on. Should they wait until someone is pulled out of a car and hit in the head with a brick before clearing the streets?

And it is easy to say that property is replaceable, but why should innocent citizens have to pay to replace their property because the police refused to do anything about it?

It's easy to say anything, your argument holds no water. If it was certain that using aggressive tactics would work, do you not think they would have done it? Do you think they are too scared, or are getting paid off?

 

[Hyphen]

Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.

Yep, heard that story aswell. Really is getting out of hand!

 

[The English Conquistador]

Embarassed... to see these idiots destroying the livelihoods, and scaring the crap out of innocent people.
Ashamed... to be part of a city that I was trumpeting just a few days ago.
Shocked... at the scale of the violence. I had no idea that this would have gone this far.
Fearful... of seeing "breaking news" that the riots/looting has spread to my street (virtually shit myself when I saw Brixton Footlocker on fire, and Curry's being looted).
Relieved... that my father and niece made it home safely from work.
Tired...

Hit the nail on the head. Absolutely appalling this is.

But I'll say this, at least we know that the people in this thread wouldn't do this kind of thing.

It's a semi-comforting thought, knowing that good people would never condone this violence on our city.

 

[Gaz Pwnage]

Of course I'm sorry that someone's been shot. Don't imply I'm not. I'm merely saying that gunshots aren't uncommon in Liverpool, or most other major cities.

I wasn't implying that your not sorry that somebody was shot. To be fair, the missus lives here, I'm not a scouser so I don't really know what areas are rough bar Toxteth.

I haven't personally heard a gunshot (Thankfully) but now that I think about it, there have been a fair few shootings over the years in Speke and surrounding areas.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Embarassed... to see these idiots destroying the livelihoods, and scaring the crap out of innocent people.
Ashamed... to be part of a city that I was trumpeting just a few days ago.
Shocked... at the scale of the violence. I had no idea that this would have gone this far.
Fearful... of seeing "breaking news" that the riots/looting has spread to my street (virtually shit myself when I saw Brixton Footlocker on fire, and Curry's being looted).
Relieved... that my father and niece made it home safely from work.
Tired...

I feel for you.



Stay safe everyone.

 

[gerg]

I don't think they do.

At the end of the day most of these people are disillusioned thieves. Do you really think they deserve to die because they decided to steal a few shoes from Foot Looker when they thought it was an opportune moment?

Not to deny that these people are acting immorally, but I think these events most definitely represent a societal failing in general.

 

[Xun]

Too fucking tired.

I'm going to bed.

Goodnight guys, stay safe.

 

[linsivvi]

You can send them to the desert if you want and see how they really deal with forces beyond their control.

Yeah I had the Outback firmly in mind. If they can survive there for a month they get a free ticket back home.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

Send them all to North Korea!

 

[outunderthestars]

It's easy to say anything, your argument holds no water. If it was certain that using aggressive tactics would work, do you not think they would have done it? Do you think they are too scared, or are getting paid off?

The more passive approach has not yielded results.

I think that the politicians are afraid to have the police be taped beating and arresting people. They are thin skinned and weak willed. They'd rather wait until it dies down, commission a panel to study the matter, and wait for the press to move on to another dead celebrity.

 

[spiderman123]

It's easy to say anything, your argument holds no water. If it was certain that using aggressive tactics would work, do you not think they would have done it? Do you think they are too scared, or are getting paid off?

He does have a point though. The passive approach till now has barely an payoff ( based on what I am reading). I am open to suggestions but it seems they are just standing there waiting for it to disperse.

 

[Ether_Snake]

The more passive approach has not yielded results.

I think that the politicians are afraid to have the police be taped beating and arresting people. They are thin skinned and weak willed. They'd rather wait until it dies down, commission a panel to study the matter, and wait for the press to move on to another dead celebrity.

They need to start to realize that the only thing voters will be angry at them is for not telling the police to shoot them all.

 

[_Xenon_]

Because even shitheads deserve to live, unfortunately.

TBH, it's very easy to understand the sentiment behind these people's actions. Solving these issues will rely on a lot more than tough policing.

What's the sentiment? Busting into stores / houses / banks and smashing / stealing shit plus hurting police forces can simply get away because there's sentiment behind this?

Sometimes you need serious punishment to teach people what should do and what shouldn't.

 

[Dark Machine]

I wasn't implying that your not sorry that somebody was shot. To be fair, the missus lives here, I'm not a scouser so I don't really know what areas are rough bar Toxteth.

I haven't personally heard a gunshot (Thankfully) but now that I think about it, there have been a fair few shootings over the years in Speke and surrounding areas.

Ah alright mate. Didn't mean to be snappy, just frustrated that the little shits have started up here.

Yeah if you google map Liverpool I could probably point out all the 'rougher' areas around the City. Main ones are Bootle, Walton and Anfield, Toxteth and the surrounds there, Everton, Huyton, Norris Green. All Inner City areas with a lot of poorer families in social housing.

That said, as I mentioned before, even better off places like Thornton and Crosby (my area), Aintree, Broadgreen etc. have bad bits. I don't often hear gunshots, but you often see them reported in the Liverpool Post or Echo.

 

[radioheadrule83]

At the end of the day most of these people are disillusioned thieves. Do you really think they deserve to die because they decided to steal a few shoes from Foot Looker when they thought it was an opportune moment?

The thieving and entitlement is disgusting, but no of course not. I do, however, genuinely believe that the people who are setting fire to buildings and - as we're now hearing - invading homes... those people should be considered as having taken their lives into their own hands. Police have found a man with gunshot wounds just sitting injured in his car, and there've also been shots in Liverpool. They are risking the lives of others, and if anyone has to go, I'd rather it be these people instead of someone innocent.

 

[Dabanton]

Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.

Has that been confirmed? I've seen some very suspect stories spreading around tonight of the "i've heard from a friend" variety.

Some are humorous others sound like sinister mischief making.

That breaking into peoples homes story i've heard 3 or 4 variations on this that this evening from different people.

 

[BocoDragon]

Are they not even pepper spraying or tear gassing or anything?

No kidding: I was randomly pepper sprayed a few days ago by some random prankster. It was incapacitating and painful... but it wore off after a night and I was ultimately just fine.

I say pepper spray the lot of these people... it's harmless and it'll stop them (or is there some reason riot control doesn't use it?)

 

[gerg]

What's the sentiment? Busting into stores / houses / banks and smashing / stealing shit plus hurting police forces can simply get away because there's sentiment behind this?

I never said that what these people were doing was right. I said it was understandable.

I basically agree with this article.

We're not talking hypothetically here. A lot of these people will have little of a future ahead of them. It's no surprise that they don't care for a society that can't provide that.

 

[Gaspode_T]

What is happening with the world...next thing we know orcs and dragons will appear and people will start using the terms "drek" and "chummer"

 

[Tzeentch]

It's now front page news on most news sites, but will probably fall off the tickers if the markets continue to tank.

 

[RustyNails]

wat?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Has that been confirmed? I've seen some very suspect stories spreading around tonight of the "i've heard from a friend" variety.

Some are humorous others sound like sinister mischief making.

That breaking into peoples homes story i've heard 3 or 4 variations on this that this evening from different people.

It was reported live on sky news earlier, a woman was woken by a man dressed in black breaking into her house

Also various reports on the news of peoples front doors being kicked in etc

 

[Dead Man]

The more passive approach has not yielded results.

I think that the politicians are afraid to have the police be taped beating and arresting people. They are thin skinned and weak willed. They'd rather wait until it dies down, commission a panel to study the matter, and wait for the press to move on to another dead celebrity.

So they are happy to beat heads for G20 and the like, but not now?

He does have a point though. The passive approach till now has barely an payoff ( based on what I am reading). I am open to suggestions but it seems they are just standing there waiting for it to disperse.

They payoff has been no one killed so far. I know that is not a high priority for some people, but to me it is up at the top of the list. I don't know if that is just dumb luck, you are right there.

Look, I'm not saying the police have had the best response possible, just that I feel it is better than their usual method of going in swinging.

 

[equap]

A woman leaps from the fourth floor in Croydon, South London.

 

[outunderthestars]

wat?

damnit, now hipsters are looting.

 

[planar1280]

Do you guys know how the French Revolution started?

 

[BocoDragon]

damnit, now hipsters are looting.

"I stole this rocking horse out of irony."

 

[teh_pwn]

damnit, now hipsters are looting.

Their lust for antiques has led to looting.

 

[Dabanton]

It was reported live on sky news earlier, a woman was woken by a man dressed in black breaking into her house

Also various reports on the news of peoples front doors being kicked in etc

So a burglar rather than a looter.

 

[gerg]

I do, however, genuinely believe that the people who are setting fire to buildings and - as we're now hearing - invading homes... those people should be considered as having taken their lives into their own hands. Police have found a man with gunshot wounds just sitting injured in his car, and there've also been shots in Liverpool. They are risking the lives of others, and if anyone has to go, I'd rather it be these people instead of someone innocent.

I'd just rather that as few people as possible died overall. I still don't think that burglars and arsonists are dangerous and immoral enough for the police to be justified in actively trying to kill them, but then again I'm not for the death penalty in general.

 

[Dead Man]

Are they not even pepper spraying or tear gassing or anything?

No kidding: I was randomly pepper sprayed a few days ago by some random prankster. It was incapacitating and painful... but it wore off after a night and I was ultimately just fine.

I say pepper spray the lot of these people... it's harmless and it'll stop them (or is there some reason riot control doesn't use it?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

For those with asthma, taking other drugs, or subject to restraining techniques which restrict the breathing passages, there is a risk of death.

Don't know how common those effects are, or if they are concerns that the police consider though.

 

[planar1280]

I think this is when they say, enough is enough, get the guns out.

 

[Boss Doggie]

damnit, now hipsters are looting.

TOO DEEP 4 U

 

[FunkyPajamas]

wat?

Your argument is invalid my shield is a rocking horse.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Are they not even pepper spraying or tear gassing or anything?

No kidding: I was randomly pepper sprayed a few days ago by some random prankster. It was incapacitating and painful... but it wore off after a night and I was ultimately just fine.

I say pepper spray the lot of these people... it's harmless and it'll stop them (or is there some reason riot control doesn't use it?)

I don't understand why there isn't zero-tolerance curfew being put into place. You're out after a certain time? You're going to a holding facility. It's what eventually brought the L.A. riots into line.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

So a burglar rather than a looter.

What's the difference? It was simply more of the mob looking to steal shit

 

[Tzeentch]

So they are happy to beat heads for G20 and the like, but not now?

-- These rioters will fight back, and they are not inconveniencing the politically powerful and rich.

 

[outunderthestars]

So they are happy to beat heads for G20 and the like, but not now?


They payoff has been no one killed so far. I know that is not a high priority for some people, but to me it is up at the top of the list. I don't know if that is just dumb luck, you are right there.

Look, I'm not saying the police have had the best response possible, just that I feel it is better than their usual method of going in swinging.

Would you say the same thing if they were on your street, torching houses and robbing people?

I worry that it sends a message to the criminals on the street that the police are nothing to worry about.

I worry about the people who might not insurance and will end up losing their businesses and/or homes because the police are afraid of hurting someone who is breaking the law.

I thought the police were supposed to worry about the victims, not the criminals....

Then again, I live in a state where I can legally shoot you for refusing to leave my house.

 

[TheExecutive]

Apparently they are breaking into peoples homes in ealing on sky news, people talking about waking up and finding people around their bed and shit, seriously getting out of hand.

What the hell is happening over there? If this is true I am surprised that people arent getting killed over this stuff.

 

[Ultimatum]

Look, I'm not saying the police have had the best response possible, just that I feel it is better than their usual method of going in swinging.

I agree with you. I don't even want to think about the backlash that would be caused by police aggression...

I don't really understand the situation though. What's the reasoning behind the rioting in different areas? Everybody is making it out to be mindless looting, but isn't it a result of discontent with their living conditions (which can be blamed on the government)?

 

[spiderman123]

Look, I'm not saying the police have had the best response possible, just that I feel it is better than their usual method of going in swinging.

What the police is facing right now is a double edge sword. If anyone gets hurt, there is fear of escalation, retaliation and politicians are afraid of public view. The second is that if they don't react ( showing an action vs consequence), ppl will suffer financially and personally. The district or city will suffer financially and lose reputation ( as well as long term economic effects).

What they should do is react NOW based on which tactic has the greatest public approval.

 

[~Kinggi~]

A woman leaps from the fourth floor in Croydon, South London.

That is quite an image.

 

[radioheadrule83]

I never said that what these people were doing was right. I said it was understandable.

I basically agree with this article.

I won't comment on the initial day of rioting, as the spark was unique there, but anyone who tries to tie EMA, council cuts and other things into the rationale of these kids in the days that have followed is a massively naive idiot. And I was against such quick, deep cuts myself. Ken Livingstone has been trying to push that line on the news all day and its bollocks.

This country has experienced recessions worse than this, and previous generations didn't resort to wanton violence, muggings, lootings and arson. How hard done by can they be if they are organising themselves on fucking blackberrys? The only thing I really believe from that entire article is that these youths think they are entitled to "get paid" and have fun at everyone elses expense... the only reason they are doing it is because they think (or know) that they can get away with it. I hate that people are trying to politicise it and come to sweeping conclusions about society, when its clear from the breadth and scale of the disorder that people are just being opportunistic cunts.

 

[Wallach]

I agree with you. I don't even want to think about the backlash that would be caused by police aggression...

I don't really understand the situation though. What's the reasoning behind the rioting in different areas? Everybody is making it out to be mindless looting, but isn't it a result of discontent with their living conditions (which can be blamed on the government)?

From what I can tell, this started when some gang banger was killed for attempting to kill some police officer. What the fuck that has to do with the other 99% of the people rioting and looting is pretty much dick all.

 

[Dibbz]

wat?

Hipster gonna hip

 

[Dead Man]

Would you say the same thing if they were on your street, torching houses and robbing people?

I worry that it sends a message to the criminals on the street that the police are nothing to worry about.

I worry about the people who might not insurance and will end up losing their businesses and/or homes because the police are afraid of hurting someone who is breaking the law.

I thought the police were supposed to worry about the victims, not the criminals....

Then again, I live in a state where I can legally shoot you for refusing to leave my house.

See, there is a fundamental disagreement of philosophy here. So I will leave you to your opinion, and will continue to maintain mine.

 

[BocoDragon]

Don't know how common those effects are, or if they are concerns that the police consider though.

I had asthma and I was fine anyway

As someone who was on the receiving end of the stuff I somehow feel justified in reccomending it be used on these punks. If I can take it, they can, and it will stop the bastards.!

 

[gerg]

I don't really understand the situation though. What's the reasoning behind the rioting in different areas? Everybody is making it out to be mindless looting, but isn't it a result of discontent with their living conditions (which can be blamed on the government)?

I linked to this article in the Grauniad in an above post. I think it does a pretty good job of summarising what are probably the main reasons and motivations for these events.

 

[Eiji]

Send in the army and Bear Grylls...