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[Artoris]

well said

i have admitted and will continue to concede that this may not go well. im keeping my expectations and hype in check. but everything ive seen gives me more hope than i could have predicted.

as most things go in life, itll probably be a mix of some good and some bad.

and as all things go on GAF (lol), some people insist to only see the bad while ignoring the good.

Yes, but surely there have been a lot more bad movies and TV than it was before the over all quality has gone down right?

 

[AJUMP23]

Artoris I would say there is more crap (bad shows) than ever. There is a lot of interesting stuff too. (better call Saul, The Old Man, Only Murderers in the building)

 

[Artoris]

Artoris I would say there is more crap (bad shows) than ever. There is a lot of interesting stuff too. (better call Saul, The Old Man, Only Murderers in the building)

Out of the tree you mentioned, I have only seen Better Call Saul, and it is a relic of times before. Mandalorian is probably the best one made in these times

 

[AJUMP23]

Out of the tree you mentioned, I have only seen Better Call Saul, and it is a relic of times before. Mandalorian is probably the best one made in these times

You should check out the other 2. Only Murders is good, but the cast makes it great.

 

[ManaByte]

Rumor: The Lord Of The Rings Scholar Tom Shippey Fired For Telling Prime Video They Were "Polluting The Lore"

A new rumor claims that Tom Shippey, The Lord of the Rings scholar and former consultant on The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power, was fired from the Prime Video show because he was warning them that they were "polluting the lore."

boundingintocomics.com

Has then been discussed......If you fire your Lore expert for saying you are not respecting the LORE.....you are doing it wrong.

That site is one of the extreme outrage sites that tries to inject politics into everything.

With the Estate producing the show the scholar likely clashed with them because some of these Tolkien scholars clash with the Estate due to their egos and belief they know more about Tolkien than the Estate does.

 

[AJUMP23]

That site is one of the extreme outrage sites that tries to inject politics into everything.

With the Estate producing the show the scholar likely clashed with them because some of these Tolkien scholars clash with the Estate due to their egos and belief they know more about Tolkien than the Estate does.

Like IGN?

I mean I know more about Star Wars than Lucas, and definitely know more than Harrison Ford.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

That site is one of the extreme outrage sites that tries to inject politics into everything.

With the Estate producing the show the scholar likely clashed with them because some of these Tolkien scholars clash with the Estate due to their egos and belief they know more about Tolkien than the Estate does.

Source: Trust me bro. Come on man. Your hatred for any of these outrage sites/tubers is well documented. Talk about injecting feelings into things.

 

[Kev Kev]

Yes, but surely there have been a lot more bad movies and TV than it was before the over all quality has gone down right?

i dont really agree with this sentiment. i think tv and movies have been gettin better and better every year.

its just a small, loud minority of mostly online people that continuously hate on every new tv show or movie by disney, marvel, star wars, amazon, netflix, pixar, etc. like clockwork lol. its like the cool thing to do now, and trolls and people who want to have the "correct opinion" are tripping over themselves to get in on the action.

but if you ask normal, non online people about the quality of tv shows and movies, they will almost all say that entertainment is in a better place today than its ever been

 

[AJUMP23]

Kev Kev Star Wars has become pretty bad.

 

[Come On Tars]

Predicting a 0 audience score if they allow it. Of course there will be shenanigans. This is going to be the most expensive disappointment of all time.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

i dont really agree with this sentiment. i think tv and movies have been gettin better and better every year.

its just a small, loud minority of mostly online people that continuously hate on every new tv show or movie by disney, marvel, star wars, amazon, netflix, pixar, etc. like clockwork lol. its like the cool thing to do now, and trolls and people who want to have the "correct opinion" are tripping over themselves to get in on the action.

but if you ask normal, non online people about the quality of tv shows and movies, they will almost all say that entertainment is in a better place today than its ever been

You have a point. I would offer a few counterpoints. There is so MUCH media to comsume these days finding the truly excellent stuff is taxing. I have little spare time. The good shit gets lost on me. I came to Ozark late for example on my mother's recommendation. Great show except for the ending. The internet says this. My mother also said this. So I don't think it's entirely just internet nerds hating everything. It's better than it's ever been because of the sheer amount of content for sure but standing out I think is now harder.

 

[Kev Kev]

Kev Kev Star Wars has become pretty bad.

I disagree

The sequel trilogy wasn’t that great, but there are good moments in them. And TLJ is one of my favorite films in the SW franchise.

Let’s try this…

Let’s go with the sequel trilogy for example, since even I can admit they had some very bad parts… You’ve already established you think it’s bad, but can you honestly say that every minute, every scene, every single facet of the sequel trilogy is bad? Can you name something about them that was done well? Whether it be acting, music, CG, script, pacing, cool new characters, a particular scene, anything at all?

I think if someone is being honest and fair, they can name at least a few things they thought were ok. But I find it really hard to believe that someone is being fair if they literally think every single second was bad, and there nothing good or redeeming about it.

And those are the type of people I’m referring to. The ones that literally say it is 100% pure garbage. And, surprise surprise, those individuals are a lot of the same people I’m seeing ITT claiming this is going to be garbage (and it’s not even out yet lmao).

I don’t think you are one of those people, you seem to have a level headed approach to most threads on GAF

 

[AJUMP23]

I disagree

The sequel trilogy wasn’t that great, but there are good moments in them. And TLJ is one of my favorite films in the SW franchise.

Let’s try this…

Let’s go with the sequel trilogy for example, since even I can admit they had some very bad parts… You’ve already established you think it’s bad, but can you honestly say that every minute, every scene, every single facet of the sequel trilogy is bad? Can you name something about them that was done well? Whether it be acting, music, CG, script, pacing, cool new characters, a particular scene, anything at all?

I think if someone is being honest and fair, they can name at least a few things they thought were ok. But I find it really hard to believe that someone is being fair if they literally think every single second was bad, and there nothing good or redeeming about it.

And those are the type of people I’m referring to. The ones that literally say it is 100% pure garbage. And, surprise surprise, those individuals are a lot of the same people I’m seeing ITT claiming this is going to be garbage (and it’s not even out yet lmao).

I don’t think you are one of those people, you seem to have a level headed approach to most threads on GAF

I am very level headed. the SW movies looked good. And the new characters were fine.....the old characters especially Luke were completely misunderstood and mishandled by the writers. The force was even misunderstood. (leia floating through space) Justice for Ackbar. They would have done better to wait a little bit and write the whole story before filming one. Plenty of moments I liked, but as an overall series it was a major disappointment. TLJ is one of the worst films I have seen. When it finished I left the theater wondering what I had just seen. I was bewildered.

SW TV shows have been Ok. Mandalorian was fun, Boba Fett dragged, and Obi Wan was pretty awful. My kids loved it all though so I had fun enjoying them enjoying it.

 

[Kev Kev]

I am very level headed. the SW movies looked good. And the new characters were fine.....the old characters especially Luke were completely misunderstood and mishandled by the writers. The force was even misunderstood. (leia floating through space) Justice for Ackbar. They would have done better to wait a little bit and write the whole story before filming one. Plenty of moments I liked, but as an overall series it was a major disappointment. TLJ is one of the worst films I have seen. When it finished I left the theater wondering what I had just seen. I was bewildered.

SW TV shows have been Ok. Mandalorian was fun, Boba Fett dragged, and Obi Wan was pretty awful. My kids loved it all though so I had fun enjoying them enjoying it.

Yeah, see this is totally fair

It’s futile for me to even complain bc it’ll never change, but this whole culture of blasting all of your vitriol and hate towards a thing, with zero nuance or gray area just total black and white, is just exhausting and annoying to me. It’s the same shit reeee does when they are tripping over themselves to be offended by something.

Whatever lol, fuck it, bring on the haters, they’re usually ignoring logic so it’s easy to slap em down

 

[Tams]

This was explained earlier in the thread but people ignored it.


Christopher was responsible for every problem Jackson had with the Estate for nearly 20 years. He didn’t want the Estate to have anything to do with the movies and it’s due to him that the Estate and WB were locked in court battles until 2017 when Christopher stepped down from the Estate.

His son Simon wanted the Estate to be involved with the movies but Christopher forbade it and the two didn’t talk for years. When Christopher stepped down in 2017, Simon immediately ended the Estate’s war against WB and the two both wanted to make a series set in the Second Age. That’s when the bidding war began.

I get that Christopher caused problems and it's remarkable that the LoT Trilogy and The Hobbit Trilogy ever got made.

But there's something very fishy when the estate apparently wants a Second Age show/film but then severely limits the ount of material said show can use, and then apparently seems okay when the lore expert/consultant (with high credentials) is fired.

 

[Tams]

And TLJ is one of my favorite films in the SW franchise.

Yeah, I don't think we're ever going to agree on much.

It was a terrible film in general, and absolute diarrhea as a Star Wars film. Space Leia and it being just one long, slow space chase being the worst parts.

And even Disney thought it was so shit that they got rid of Johnson and brought back lens-flare, dull imagination, Abrams.

 

[Ironbunny]

i dont really agree with this sentiment. i think tv and movies have been gettin better and better every year.

I think they havent. There are gems out there but mostly its been a down spiraling trend which recycles old movies/series with worse writing and execution.

its just a small, loud minority of mostly online people that continuously hate on every new tv show or movie by disney, marvel, star wars, amazon, netflix, pixar, etc. like clockwork lol. its like the cool thing to do now, and trolls and people who want to have the "correct opinion" are tripping over themselves to get in on the action.

but if you ask normal, non online people about the quality of tv shows and movies, they will almost all say that entertainment is in a better place today than its ever been

Thats just a personal view of yours.

I disagree

The sequel trilogy wasn’t that great, but there are good moments in them. And TLJ is one of my favorite films in the SW franchise.

If you drop 10% chocolate over shit its still 90% shit.

Let’s try this…

Let’s go with the sequel trilogy for example, since even I can admit they had some very bad parts… You’ve already established you think it’s bad, but can you honestly say that every minute, every scene, every single facet of the sequel trilogy is bad? Can you name something about them that was done well? Whether it be acting, music, CG, script, pacing, cool new characters, a particular scene, anything at all?

Why? What would that proof? If i'm going to watch a movie or a series I'm hoping to be entertained by the whole thing. Not just for one scene or good cgi or a great actor. The sequel trilogy was a good example of how to ruin even the story of the movies that came before it.

I think if someone is being honest and fair, they can name at least a few things they thought were ok. But I find it really hard to believe that someone is being fair if they literally think every single second was bad, and there nothing good or redeeming about it.

Yes something good might be in something that is awfully bad. For me that seems more like a missed opportunity than anything else.

And those are the type of people I’m referring to. The ones that literally say it is 100% pure garbage. And, surprise surprise, those individuals are a lot of the same people I’m seeing ITT claiming this is going to be garbage (and it’s not even out yet lmao).

I don’t think you are one of those people, you seem to have a level headed approach to most threads on GAF

The sequels and prequels were 100% garbage and 100% a missed opportunity. Same goes with most of the stuff stream services put out. I can live with a bad episode in a series but I can live a series that has 1 good episode and rest are shit.

 

[Kev Kev]

If you drop 10% chocolate over shit its still 90% shit.

 

[Ironbunny]

sorry

 

[ManaByte]

But there's something very fishy when the estate apparently wants a Second Age show/film but then severely limits the ount of material said show can use, and then apparently seems okay when the lore expert/consultant (with high credentials) is fired.

This trailer kind of debunks the idea that the Estate is limiting the material they can use because it literally shows the end of the War of Wrath in the trailer, which is the end of the First Age and not part of the Rings of Power segment of the LOTR Appendices or the last 20 pages of the Silmarillion. If they're doing flashbacks to Galadriel at the end of the First Age then they are using material from the Silmarillion.

 

[ManaByte]

And even Disney thought it was so shit that they got rid of Johnson and brought back lens-flare, dull imagination, Abrams.

Johnson was never going to direct the third one. Colin Trevarrow was making the third movie, but when Carrie Fisher died he couldn't figure out how to make Duel of the Fates work without her and Book of Henry was released and regarded as the worst movie of the 2010s decade, so he got fired and they brought back JJ Abrams and he allowed Reddit to write TROS.

 

[Tams]

This trailer kind of debunks the idea that the Estate is limiting the material they can use because it literally shows the end of the War of Wrath in the trailer, which is the end of the First Age and not part of the Rings of Power segment of the LOTR Appendices or the last 20 pages of the Silmarillion. If they're doing flashbacks to Galadriel at the end of the First Age then they are using material from the Silmarillion.

Hey, don't look at for that claim.

 

[Lord Panda]

Galadriel was the most powerful mage of the elves, she didn't need a sword.
But hey, maybe I misremember! Please quote where Tolkien wrote she fought with a sword.

To be fair, there’s no real definitive writing in the Silmarillion or elsewhere that says Galadriel doesn’t/can’t have a sword or other pointy instrument? Even Gandarf picked up a sword in The Hobbit so there was no snobbery or class restrictions there.

Great elves such as Fëanor and his sons, Fingolfin, Finwe, Glorfindel etc probably had great ‘magical’ powers but they also wielded melee weapons and probably wore armour too. So i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch for Galadriel (who was as strong as Fëanor I think?) to be proficient in melee combat despite whatever natural abilities and powers she already has from living in Valinor.

I’m trying not to judge the show until I watch it, but all my friends and family have already written it off. The casting is a bit meh (though The actress playing Galadriel is perfect), and I don’t think the earlier social media campaign by Amazon helped the show either but that’s already been mauled to death in the other thread.

 

[ManaByte]

To be fair, there’s no real definitive writing in the Silmarillion or elsewhere that says Galadriel doesn’t/can’t have a sword or other pointy instrument? Even Gandarf picked up a sword in The Hobbit so there was no snobbery or class restrictions there.

Great elves such as Fëanor and his sons, Fingolfin, Finwe, Glorfindel etc probably had great ‘magical’ powers but they also wielded melee weapons and probably wore armour too. So i don’t think it’s too much of a stretch for Galadriel (who was as strong as Fëanor I think?) to be proficient in melee combat despite whatever natural abilities and powers she already has from living in Valinor.

I’m trying not to judge the show until I watch it, but all my friends and family have already written it off. The casting is a bit meh (though The actress playing Galadriel is perfect), and I don’t think the earlier social media campaign by Amazon helped the show either but that’s already been mauled to death in the other thread.

Some of this Galadriel stuff is to blame on the movies as one of the writers, Philippa Boyens, had an elf fetish and believed that Galadriel was the "most powerful creature in Middle-Earth". When even Gandalf the Grey could wipe the floor with her if he wanted to.

 

[poppabk]

Yeah, see this is totally fair

It’s futile for me to even complain bc it’ll never change, but this whole culture of blasting all of your vitriol and hate towards a thing, with zero nuance or gray area just total black and white, is just exhausting and annoying to me. It’s the same shit reeee does when they are tripping over themselves to be offended by something.

Whatever lol, fuck it, bring on the haters, they’re usually ignoring logic so it’s easy to slap em down

Yeah I don't mind people disliking stuff, even if it's for reasons I think are ridiculous. But the hyperbole is just relentless and annoying. You can't watch the 'worst show/movie you have ever seen, steaming pile of shit, the writer should just kill themselves' every single week. Most of the stuff is just mediocre or good but ill-judged.

 

[strange headache]

You seriously need to read Tolkien.

I'm pretty sure you haven't touched a book in years.
Why did you choose to make this Amazon crap your newest shill crusade?

Source: Trust me bro. Come on man. Your hatred for any of these outrage sites/tubers is well documented. Talk about injecting feelings into things.

Every opinion he doesn't like is simply dismissed as "outrage mongers", when in reality he only keeps regurgitating the same fluffy PR crap published by the access media.

 

[sol_bad]

Yeah, I don't think we're ever going to agree on much.

It was a terrible film in general, and absolute diarrhea as a Star Wars film. Space Leia and it being just one long, slow space chase being the worst parts.

And even Disney thought it was so shit that they got rid of Johnson and brought back lens-flare, dull imagination, Abrams.

Got rid of Johnson? It was a 1 picture deal and I think he dodged a bullet by not being involved with Rise of Skywalker. I can't help but feel that JJ Abrams had barely any creative input in that film.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Galadriel fought in the War of Wrath at the end of the First Age.

“She had no role in the major wars of the First Age, believing that defeating Morgoth was beyond the power of the Eldar; when Morgoth was defeated by the coming of the Valar out of the West she, having played no part in the earlier Kinslaying, was offered safe return to Valinor. However, she chose not to leave Middle-earth, and was the only leader of the Ñoldor exiles to remain after the First Age.”.

So, you’re wrong there. Also, she’s not in the top 5 most important characters in the second age - the second age is mostly about the Numenoreans and Sauron. Obviously Celebrimbor, Gil-Galad and Elrond play a big role as well. She does get one of the 3 elven rings but I say that her role is akin to Cirdan as she does not participate in the war against Sauron.

So, yes, it is fanfiction.

 

[ManaByte]

“She had no role in the major wars of the First Age, believing that defeating Morgoth was beyond the power of the Eldar; when Morgoth was defeated by the coming of the Valar out of the West she, having played no part in the earlier Kinslaying, was offered safe return to Valinor. However, she chose not to leave Middle-earth, and was the only leader of the Ñoldor exiles to remain after the First Age.”.

So, you’re wrong there. Also, she’s not in the top 5 most important characters in the second age - the second age is mostly about the Numenoreans and Sauron. Obviously Celebrimbor, Gil-Galad and Elrond play a big role as well. She does get one of the 3 elven rings but I say that her role is akin to Cirdan as she does not participate in the war against Sauron.

So, yes, it is fanfiction.

Both she and Celeborn were there.

Did 🧝Galadriel and Celeborn fight in ⚔️War of Wrath?

"Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned...

www.thetolkienforum.com

Then again you were claiming that they were hiding Gil-Galad, despite him being in the trailer and having a poster.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Both she and Celeborn were there.

Did 🧝Galadriel and Celeborn fight in ⚔️War of Wrath?

"Of the march of the host of the Valar to the north of Middle-earth little is said in any tale; for among them went none of those Elves who had dwelt and suffered in the Hither Lands, and who made the histories of those days that still are known; and tidings of these things they only learned...

www.thetolkienforum.com

Then again you were claiming that they were hiding Gil-Galad, despite him being in the trailer and having a poster.

Sorry but what is this “canonical” version of Galadriel when Tolkien himself wrote that she wasn’t there? The only fight that we know that she was part of was against Feanor (not directly). Also, where is Celeborn?

Well, you wouldn’t know who Gil-Galad is watching the trailer as he isn’t one of the main characters showcased. All I saw were teen warrior Galadriel, non-warrior Elrond, non-bearded black dwarf queen and “hardoots”. I wouldn’t know who Gil-Galad is just from the trailer.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Also, where is Celeborn?

He's dead in this show.

 

[Tams]

Sorry but what is this “canonical” version of Galadriel when Tolkien himself wrote that she wasn’t there? The only fight that we know that she was part of was against Feanor (not directly). Also, where is Celeborn?

I regret reading that link, as it was like a Bible reading. That thread alone almost out me of Lord of the Rings for a while.

I know people have hobbies and interests, but some of those there need to get out more.

 

[ManaByte]

Sorry but what is this “canonical” version of Galadriel when Tolkien himself wrote that she wasn’t there? The only fight that we know that she was part of was against Feanor (not directly). Also, where is Celeborn?

Tolkien was revising the text for decades. He tried to publish the Silmarillion right after The Hobbit, but the publisher rejected it and wanted the sequel (LOTR) immediately. The "canonical" version is considered his version from 1955-1972, and in that version both Galadriel and Celeborn are there.

I regret reading that link, as it was like a Bible reading. That thread alone almost out me of Lord of the Rings for a while.

I know people have hobbies and interests, but some of those there need to get out more.

Well it is the Silmarillion.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

Tolkien was revising the text for decades. He tried to publish the Silmarillion right after The Hobbit, but the publisher rejected it and wanted the sequel (LOTR) immediately. The "canonical" version is considered his version from 1955-1972, and in that version both Galadriel and Celeborn are there.


Well it is the Silmarillion.

After the mention of Celeborn and Galadriel living together in Doriath during the First Age, they are given no further role in the course of the rather dramatic events involving their kin on both sides throughout the remaining years of the First Age. We hear nothing of any role of either in the Battle of Unnumbered Tears, or the Sack of Doriath by the Dwarves, or where they might have been when the Sons of Fëanor attempted to take the Silmaril from Dior. We read nothing of any involvement of Celeborn or Galadriel in the lengthy accounts of the events surrounding Beren and Lúthien. There is only a passing reference to the relationship of Celeborn to their son Dior's wife:

At that time Beren and Lúthien yet dwelt in Tol Galen, the Green Isle, in the River Adurant, southernmost of the streams that falling from Ered Lindon flowed down to join with Gelion; and their son Dior Eluchíl had to wife Nimloth, kinswoman of Celeborn, prince of Doriath, who was wedded to the Lady Galadriel.12

Setting aside the discussion of "Celeborn as Teleporno" question for the moment, Christopher Tolkien explicitly states that one is not given a complete and internally consistent account of the comings and goings of Galadriel and Celeborn, but is only able to make a series of assumptions about the activities and whereabouts of Celeborn and Galadriel at the end of the First Age.

This is from The Unfinished Tales, btw.

 

[TaylorSwiftFan]

He's dead in this show.

Well, I wonder why…

 

[AJUMP23]

Tom Bombadil gonna show up in this?

 

[NecrosaroIII]

This trailer kind of debunks the idea that the Estate is limiting the material they can use because it literally shows the end of the War of Wrath in the trailer, which is the end of the First Age and not part of the Rings of Power segment of the LOTR Appendices or the last 20 pages of the Silmarillion. If they're doing flashbacks to Galadriel at the end of the First Age then they are using material from the Silmarillion.

I disagree. Appendix A and B both give brief outlines regarding details of the first age. Nothing in the trail so far couldn't be extrapolated from that

 

[John_Ryder]

Tom Bombadil gonna show up in this?

Yup, he's gonna be played by Chris Rock.

 

[AJUMP23]

Yup, he's gonna be played by Chris Rock.

Inspired casting.

 

[jason10mm]

Tom Bombadil gonna show up in this?

Yup, he's gonna be played by Chris Rock.

I would accept Jack Black.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Kev Kev Star Wars has become pretty bad.

So has Star Trek. So has Marvel. So has Wheel of Time. So has so many other shows that hire slacktivists instead of screenwriters.

 

[Dr. Claus]

I'm pretty sure you haven't touched a book in years.
Why did you choose to make this Amazon crap your newest shill crusade?



Every opinion he doesn't like is simply dismissed as "outrage mongers", when in reality he only keeps regurgitating the same fluffy PR crap published by the access media.

Sometimes I wonder if he has any thoughts of his own or if he only regurgitates whatever the PR says to defend corporate interests.

 

[Kev Kev]

I would accept Jack Black.

it could almost work

 

[AJUMP23]

it could almost work

Too many legs. Isn’t Tom a single legger.

 

[jason10mm]

Too many legs. Isn’t Tom a single legger.

They have a BILLION dollar budget, they could make it happen.

But the screenwriters hate the lore, so why bother?

 

[Artoris]

it could almost work C

This gave me an idea we should support setting Charles Bronson free

 

[thismeinteil]

Can't wait for this show to bomb hard.

 

[Xenon]

Predicting a 0 audience score if they allow it. Of course there will be shenanigans. This is going to be the most expensive disappointment of all time.

 

[Griffon]

BTW why is there so much negativity on this series already?

I know they added some black characters, but as long as they didn't make any dumb changes like making Elrond or Galadriel black, what is the big deal?

LoTR is inspired by European/English/Nordic folklore.

What would you say if they were arbitrarily adding white people to African folklore stories?

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah, I don't think we're ever going to agree on much.

It was a terrible film in general, and absolute diarrhea as a Star Wars film. Space Leia and it being just one long, slow space chase being the worst parts.

And even Disney thought it was so shit that they got rid of Johnson and brought back lens-flare, dull imagination, Abrams.

Lol yeah, they use tlj to torture war prisoners and the turd one to put them out of misery...

That horse crap of a movie single handedly killed any interest i had in the saga.