LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
- Thread starter BenjaminBirdie
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Discotheque
Banned
Snuggler said:
Michael Keaton would have been a great Jack. Forest Whitaker as Sawyer though....lol nah (and I don't mind Whitaker either).
Expendable.
Member
sounds like 24 fans aren't very happy with the ending. LOST is the definitive series finale winner 
I can proudly say that I have never cried from any TV show or movie, a few have got an emotion reaction out of me but I have never been close to actually tearing up.
However, the Lost finale. The scene when Jack finds out the truth behind the X timeline and it fades to gold then Jack lying on the field and Vincent joining him...I was welling up, holding them back as hard as I could. Honestly, I was embarassed to cry because I was watching it with my girlfriend but I was on the verge of bawling like a babby. The final sequence just killed me, it was bittersweet but the perfect ending to Lost.
Goddamn this was a great finale.
However, the Lost finale. The scene when Jack finds out the truth behind the X timeline and it fades to gold then Jack lying on the field and Vincent joining him...I was welling up, holding them back as hard as I could. Honestly, I was embarassed to cry because I was watching it with my girlfriend but I was on the verge of bawling like a babby. The final sequence just killed me, it was bittersweet but the perfect ending to Lost.
Goddamn this was a great finale.
Discotheque
Banned
Jack's dad spelt it out so clearly...almost too clearly.
It was intentionally meant to hold your hand through the end so there would be no doubts as to whether the audience understood it or not.
And yet somehow some of the audience still fucked up :lol
It was intentionally meant to hold your hand through the end so there would be no doubts as to whether the audience understood it or not.
And yet somehow some of the audience still fucked up :lol
TheGreatDave
Banned
Snuggler said:
When Jack smiles when he sees Vincent...
;_;
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Nameless said:
:lol
The S5 premiere.
DanielPlainview said:sounds like 24 fans aren't very happy with the ending. LOST is the definitive series finale winner
Really? My brother just came in and said it was great.
I bet they didn't kill him and that annoyed people because they wanted the most obvious, lame, and depressing ending possible.
(Haven't seen it yet, no spoilers please.)
Discotheque
Banned
Solo said:
make in stain babby is dead already plane crash?
DanielPlainview said:sounds like 24 fans aren't very happy with the ending. LOST is the definitive series finale winner
I liked Mad Men's finale this year waaaaaaaay better than Lost's.
Edit: Whoops. Read season finale, not series. Avatar wins that battle of late, but I suppose that's cheating. Watching it in the past year doesn't make it a finale from the last year.
Found this gem on another forum
WARNING: This is going to be really long SPOILERS FOR THE FINALE INCLUDED TOO!
I keep trying to organize my thoughts on this but it's really difficult. Alright, so I'll start with broad interpretations:
In the beginning
we had a group of plane crash survivors on an unknown island. They were hurt and afraid and waited for rescue. While they waited, they searched the island for food and other necessities and encountered strange things like a polar bear, a smoke monster, and Jacks supposedly dead father, Christian Shephard. As the show went on, we watched as people from another part of the island threatened our Losties. The Losties began referring to them as The Others. As we learned more about The Others, we found out that their leader was a tricky, conniving, malevolent individual named Ben. Ben quickly developed a love/hate rivalry relationship with John Locke, who, out of all our Losties, was glad to be on the island. Part of his reasoning was that the island returned his ability to walk and his purpose in life. However, Locke felt some special affinity to the island, and Ben was jealous of this specialness that Locke possessed. Eventually, Locke won leadership over the Others and Ben plotted against him.
Later, we learned that Locke wasnt Bens only nemesis. Years ago, Ben and Charles Widmore had a rivalry, Widmore lost, and was banished from the island. Widmore never gave up on returning to the island, and he, Eloise Hawkins, and their secret love child, Daniel Faraday, each had pieces of information about the island. Later, in a face-off, Ben called Widmores bluff, and Widmore had Bens adopted daughter, Alex, killed, sending Ben into a rage.
Questions: Why was John Locke special? Why was the island special?
What did Eloise know? Why did she leave the island? Why did she allow Daniel to return? What was her role?
What exactly happened between Ben and Widmore?
Ben had brought others to the island from time to time during his leadership. One of these new arrivals was a young doctor named Juliet Burke, who had been coerced to the island to deal with the problem of why pregnant women on the island always died in childbirth. Juliet eventually defected to the side of our Losties and showed Sun what would be her first view of her future daughter, Ji Yeon. Luckily, Sun was able to subvert the danger of giving birth to her island-conceived daughter on the island by leaving the island before the birth.
In a related storyline, Claire Littleton, a woman in the late stages of her pregnancy, gave birth to her son Aaron, on the island. Although Claire survived the birth of her son and bonded with him as well as with Charlie, Claire disappeared, leaving Kate to take Aaron away from the island with her. Later, Kate experienced an extreme level of guilt over abandoning Claire and decided to seek the island out and bring Claire home. Before she left, she had a dream of Claire warning her not to bring Aaron back to the island.
Questions: Why were the pregnant women dying? What actually happened to Claire in her absence? Why was Aaron important? And what about Ji Yeon?
The Losties eventually found information about the Dharma Initiative (who preceded the Others, and who were massacred by Ben) and found their hatches. They learned through these hatches, that the island possessed and electromagnetic field that had brought about their original plane crash when a button containing the energy was not pushed. Desmond, another character, allowed the button not to be pushed again, plunging the island into instability and eventually leading to a series of time jumps. Juliet later attempted to reset everything by setting off an atomic bomb. She reported to Miles, after her death that it had worked.
Questions: What worked? Why was Miles able to hear/feel the dead? In fact, why was Hurley always able to see dead people?
What should have been:
Given these happenings, it was evident that the island was a powerful force that many men (Jacob, Ben, Widmore, Locke) were fighting for control for. Jacob was somewhat of an ambiguous figure, almost in the vein of a God, but in the background. There was also the side mystery of the smoke monster. So, the set up appeared to signal a) powerful forces of the island itself and b) a battle between Ben and Locke or Ben and Widmore/Eloise or both. Jacob and MIB/Smokey were side mysteries. Instead of capitalizing on these factors and answering at least a few of the questions posed above:
What played out:
The island was a special place full of electromagnetic energy that allowed it to perform miraculous feats such as making Sun fertile and allowing Locke to walk again. A protector has always been appointed to protect the island and its special properties. Most recently this line of protectors included MurderingMama, who was succeeded by Jacob, who subsequently filled the position for a long time. Jacob assumed the title when MurderingMama was murdered by his twin, MIB. MIB learned the truth of his and Jacobs birth as a teenager and subsequently left their dwelling. Jacob, despite knowing the truth, stayed with Murdering Mama. MIB spent the next few decades living among his people and trying to get off the island. MIB finally murdered MurderingMama after she smashed his latest invention to get off the island, a wheel of some sort. Murdering Mama for her part saw that death was coming, and handed her position of protector off to Jacob. Jacob, in his grief, threw his twin into the heart of the island, and MIB became the smoke monster.
Over an indeterminate number of years, Jacob and MIB battled each other, but due to the magic imposed by Murdering Mama, could not directly kill each other. Jacob constantly searched for his own eventual successor, and eventually took a deputy, Richard Alpert whom he awarded eternal life for his services. Richard was Jacobs agent within and outside of the island, and he and Richard brought candidates to the island that had been scouted out beforehand. These candidates lived miserable, largely meaningless lives according to Jacob. They went through several groups of candidates (presumably including Dharma, Rousseaus Group and the Others) before the Losties arrived. Jacob didnt lift a finger to help or save any candidate, and MIB killed many of them in his own quest to be free of the island. The island and its protector served as a cork for MIB.
Question: How did Ben use the wheel to move the island? Was it a different wheel than MIB?
Jacob manipulated the Losties lives on and off the island until he died and passed the position to Jack Shephard. Jack succeeded in killing MIB and ending the cycle, and Hurley became his successor, with Ben as his adviser.
Mingled in with that, Desmond was somehow special too (how and why?) and ascertained the relationship between their lives on the present island and the limbo/purgatory in which all the Losties lived lives that were ignorant of their shared past until a certain point where they all remembered one another, ended up with their soul mates, and were sheparded by , amusingly, Christian Shephard, to a new place.
Sooo .
Excuse me, what? How do the last three paragraphs actually have any resemblance to the first several? I was watching two completely separate shows sharing a common cast. I felt as if my six years watching Lost were a complete waste. The island, which should have been the heart of the story and the explanation for the presence of the characters, was relegated to the backburner.
Of course, I had no expectation that every question would be answered (and indeed the ones I presented were a small sampling of the actual questions that weren't answered), but I expected that a superbly crafted show would be given a superbly crafted ending that made sense in light of its past history. Instead I got a touchy-feely piece of nonsense that didnt resemble the show Id watched excitedly for six years. The producers announced two years ago that Lost would end this season. They had more prior warning than anyone. There was no excuse for this load of utter crap that they delivered, and I have every right to be upset.
WARNING: This is going to be really long SPOILERS FOR THE FINALE INCLUDED TOO!
I keep trying to organize my thoughts on this but it's really difficult. Alright, so I'll start with broad interpretations:
In the beginning
we had a group of plane crash survivors on an unknown island. They were hurt and afraid and waited for rescue. While they waited, they searched the island for food and other necessities and encountered strange things like a polar bear, a smoke monster, and Jacks supposedly dead father, Christian Shephard. As the show went on, we watched as people from another part of the island threatened our Losties. The Losties began referring to them as The Others. As we learned more about The Others, we found out that their leader was a tricky, conniving, malevolent individual named Ben. Ben quickly developed a love/hate rivalry relationship with John Locke, who, out of all our Losties, was glad to be on the island. Part of his reasoning was that the island returned his ability to walk and his purpose in life. However, Locke felt some special affinity to the island, and Ben was jealous of this specialness that Locke possessed. Eventually, Locke won leadership over the Others and Ben plotted against him.
Later, we learned that Locke wasnt Bens only nemesis. Years ago, Ben and Charles Widmore had a rivalry, Widmore lost, and was banished from the island. Widmore never gave up on returning to the island, and he, Eloise Hawkins, and their secret love child, Daniel Faraday, each had pieces of information about the island. Later, in a face-off, Ben called Widmores bluff, and Widmore had Bens adopted daughter, Alex, killed, sending Ben into a rage.
Questions: Why was John Locke special? Why was the island special?
What did Eloise know? Why did she leave the island? Why did she allow Daniel to return? What was her role?
What exactly happened between Ben and Widmore?
Ben had brought others to the island from time to time during his leadership. One of these new arrivals was a young doctor named Juliet Burke, who had been coerced to the island to deal with the problem of why pregnant women on the island always died in childbirth. Juliet eventually defected to the side of our Losties and showed Sun what would be her first view of her future daughter, Ji Yeon. Luckily, Sun was able to subvert the danger of giving birth to her island-conceived daughter on the island by leaving the island before the birth.
In a related storyline, Claire Littleton, a woman in the late stages of her pregnancy, gave birth to her son Aaron, on the island. Although Claire survived the birth of her son and bonded with him as well as with Charlie, Claire disappeared, leaving Kate to take Aaron away from the island with her. Later, Kate experienced an extreme level of guilt over abandoning Claire and decided to seek the island out and bring Claire home. Before she left, she had a dream of Claire warning her not to bring Aaron back to the island.
Questions: Why were the pregnant women dying? What actually happened to Claire in her absence? Why was Aaron important? And what about Ji Yeon?
The Losties eventually found information about the Dharma Initiative (who preceded the Others, and who were massacred by Ben) and found their hatches. They learned through these hatches, that the island possessed and electromagnetic field that had brought about their original plane crash when a button containing the energy was not pushed. Desmond, another character, allowed the button not to be pushed again, plunging the island into instability and eventually leading to a series of time jumps. Juliet later attempted to reset everything by setting off an atomic bomb. She reported to Miles, after her death that it had worked.
Questions: What worked? Why was Miles able to hear/feel the dead? In fact, why was Hurley always able to see dead people?
What should have been:
Given these happenings, it was evident that the island was a powerful force that many men (Jacob, Ben, Widmore, Locke) were fighting for control for. Jacob was somewhat of an ambiguous figure, almost in the vein of a God, but in the background. There was also the side mystery of the smoke monster. So, the set up appeared to signal a) powerful forces of the island itself and b) a battle between Ben and Locke or Ben and Widmore/Eloise or both. Jacob and MIB/Smokey were side mysteries. Instead of capitalizing on these factors and answering at least a few of the questions posed above:
What played out:
The island was a special place full of electromagnetic energy that allowed it to perform miraculous feats such as making Sun fertile and allowing Locke to walk again. A protector has always been appointed to protect the island and its special properties. Most recently this line of protectors included MurderingMama, who was succeeded by Jacob, who subsequently filled the position for a long time. Jacob assumed the title when MurderingMama was murdered by his twin, MIB. MIB learned the truth of his and Jacobs birth as a teenager and subsequently left their dwelling. Jacob, despite knowing the truth, stayed with Murdering Mama. MIB spent the next few decades living among his people and trying to get off the island. MIB finally murdered MurderingMama after she smashed his latest invention to get off the island, a wheel of some sort. Murdering Mama for her part saw that death was coming, and handed her position of protector off to Jacob. Jacob, in his grief, threw his twin into the heart of the island, and MIB became the smoke monster.
Over an indeterminate number of years, Jacob and MIB battled each other, but due to the magic imposed by Murdering Mama, could not directly kill each other. Jacob constantly searched for his own eventual successor, and eventually took a deputy, Richard Alpert whom he awarded eternal life for his services. Richard was Jacobs agent within and outside of the island, and he and Richard brought candidates to the island that had been scouted out beforehand. These candidates lived miserable, largely meaningless lives according to Jacob. They went through several groups of candidates (presumably including Dharma, Rousseaus Group and the Others) before the Losties arrived. Jacob didnt lift a finger to help or save any candidate, and MIB killed many of them in his own quest to be free of the island. The island and its protector served as a cork for MIB.
Question: How did Ben use the wheel to move the island? Was it a different wheel than MIB?
Jacob manipulated the Losties lives on and off the island until he died and passed the position to Jack Shephard. Jack succeeded in killing MIB and ending the cycle, and Hurley became his successor, with Ben as his adviser.
Mingled in with that, Desmond was somehow special too (how and why?) and ascertained the relationship between their lives on the present island and the limbo/purgatory in which all the Losties lived lives that were ignorant of their shared past until a certain point where they all remembered one another, ended up with their soul mates, and were sheparded by , amusingly, Christian Shephard, to a new place.
Sooo .
Excuse me, what? How do the last three paragraphs actually have any resemblance to the first several? I was watching two completely separate shows sharing a common cast. I felt as if my six years watching Lost were a complete waste. The island, which should have been the heart of the story and the explanation for the presence of the characters, was relegated to the backburner.
Of course, I had no expectation that every question would be answered (and indeed the ones I presented were a small sampling of the actual questions that weren't answered), but I expected that a superbly crafted show would be given a superbly crafted ending that made sense in light of its past history. Instead I got a touchy-feely piece of nonsense that didnt resemble the show Id watched excitedly for six years. The producers announced two years ago that Lost would end this season. They had more prior warning than anyone. There was no excuse for this load of utter crap that they delivered, and I have every right to be upset.
Shamrock7r
Member
Staccat0 said:
This made me laugh way more than it should of. Probably because of the voice I was imagining with it.
Nameless said:
Don't you feel sorry for me
I don't know how true any of this is, but Yunjin tried out for Kate and M. Fox, Jorge and Merry all tried out for Sawyer as well according to IMDB.
Maybe it would all be different if Keaton actually was Jack this whole time, but in this current timeline I can safely say that I'm glad they went with Fox. I can't imagine him as anyone else...well, maybe Daniel Day Lewis could have pulled it off.
MoonsaultSlayer
Member
omg rite said:
I think you guys are missing the point. Ben wasn't shot in the past. That was a currrent timeline. Only time changed, the characters didn't go back... if that makes sense.
Think of it as the characters moving in a straight line and they're passing through different time bubbles on that line. They didn't go back to the past at all because they were never there inintially. IT's all been forward moving.
That's cool, I can see people not liking the ending. Being critical is fine, I just wonder how they feel about people who are critical but didn't understand it. Must be very frustrating. Being the showrunners, it is up to them to communicate their intention to the audience, and as very clear as they made it, professional journalists still fucked it up. I would have preferred it be a little more subtle, but that would have caused even more confusion. Maybe they did find the perfect middle ground. Having never ran a TV show, I can't even begin to understand the challenge involved in something like this.Mindlog said:
TheGreatDave said:
Yeah, the smile is also part of what made it hit me so hard.
He smiles as Vincent joins him for his finale moments, the plane flies over with the remaining survivors finally, truely escaping the island. It was perfect, I can't imagine any other situation that could have ending Lost in such an effecting way.
He did it, he fucking did it. For the first time in the entire series, Jack was happy. He fixed something.
Between Hugo and Forest Sawyer the Helicopter wouldn't have been able to take off in the first place.
MoonsaultSlayer said:
Nope, that doesn't work. Because the "incident" was referred to as early as season 2. And the incident was caused by the Losties. So your theory doesn't hold.
Ben was shot in the past and they used amnesia as a bad plot device to explain why he doesn't remember. Simple as that, sadly.
Nameless
Member
Snuggler said:
Don't you feel sorry for me
I don't know how true any of this is, but Yunjin tried out for Kate and M. Fox, Jorge and Merry all tried out for Sawyer as well according to IMDB.
Maybe it would all be different if Keaton actually was Jack this whole time, but in this current timeline I can safely say that I'm glad they went with Fox. I can't imagine him as anyone else...well, maybe Daniel Day Lewis could have pulled it off.
Would Keaton have made a good Jack? I'm not to sure. Tormented, under pressure, douche bag leader Jack was pretty hard to pull off I imagine but Fox played it perfectly.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
Discotheque
Banned
I hope Community ends with all those unfunny assholes going to a college reunion....in hell.
I've been listening to it since the end of the finale yesterday. ;_;Kodiak said:oh my god sorry if this has been posted but this is amazing.
a goodbye rap set to the Lost sound track.
now when that day finally comes
and that screen goes back
I'll be like Lost ain't over man
we gotta go back
TheGreatDave
Banned
IrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
Community avatar.
:lol :lolIrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
Also, your community avatar is really a LOST avatar...
L O S T
Goddammit.IrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
In a perfect world, they should've given people a quiz on the rest of the series before allowing them to actually watch the finale.
You have no idea what we watched.IrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
Cool coincidence, your avatar is a reference to Lost.
IrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
That's adorable. Dumb troll who doesn't know how to spell 'purgatory' correctly doesn't even understand the end of the series.
Sit in the corner, little boy. You're embarrassing yourself.
Mohonky
Member
So I'm probably pretty retarded but can people explain the ending? What I got was;
- They did crash on the island, and it did have all sorts of mystical hoodoo voodoo powers.
- Jacob and Smokey therefore, exist along with the island and were the current 'protectors' of the island as such.
- Island always inherits new protectors.
- The survivors that did get off the island (and then, those that stayed like Ben and Hurley) lived out the rest of their lives as normal till they themselves passed on.
- The sideways flashes are just to remind the characters of the most important time in their lives, when they were all together. The sideways flashes was them simply caught up in a purgatory state waiting for them to find one another again.
What I don't understand is;
- Nothing was ever really explained about the island itself. Where was it's power coming from and who created it (that plug was obviously made by someone).
- Why was man in black thrown from the light only to become smokey?
- Why couldn't he just leave the island (or Jacob for that matter) and why would smokey leaving mean the end of the world (the guy wasn't inherently evil, he just wanted off the island to begin with but after being killed and otherwise shafted by his mum he was angsty). No reason to believe he couldn't have just left the island to begin with.
- Why does the world end if the island is destroyed?
- They did crash on the island, and it did have all sorts of mystical hoodoo voodoo powers.
- Jacob and Smokey therefore, exist along with the island and were the current 'protectors' of the island as such.
- Island always inherits new protectors.
- The survivors that did get off the island (and then, those that stayed like Ben and Hurley) lived out the rest of their lives as normal till they themselves passed on.
- The sideways flashes are just to remind the characters of the most important time in their lives, when they were all together. The sideways flashes was them simply caught up in a purgatory state waiting for them to find one another again.
What I don't understand is;
- Nothing was ever really explained about the island itself. Where was it's power coming from and who created it (that plug was obviously made by someone).
- Why was man in black thrown from the light only to become smokey?
- Why couldn't he just leave the island (or Jacob for that matter) and why would smokey leaving mean the end of the world (the guy wasn't inherently evil, he just wanted off the island to begin with but after being killed and otherwise shafted by his mum he was angsty). No reason to believe he couldn't have just left the island to begin with.
- Why does the world end if the island is destroyed?
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Discotheque said:
The final season will take place along an alternate timeline where all the characters are stuck on an island where a bunch of weird shit keeps happening. Eventually they realize the island was not real and was merely an illusion set up in their former lives so that they could all reunite in weird unfamiliar manner.
peterb0y said:
:lol Now that's a twist! Maybe I'm a Lost fan in an alternate timeline/past life.
Nameless
Member
IrrelevantNotch said:Just saw the finale. Second episode of Lost I've ever watched, and all I can say?.... lol
You guys waited six seasons just to find out the main draw was a symbolic representation of pergatory. I feel sorry for you guys
We've waited six years to see a beautifully crafted resolution to the journey of these characters we've gotten to know and love over those six years. I feel sorry that by being dumb enough to watch the finale out of context like you will never have the ability to experience it on the same level of the rest as the rest us.
Byakuya769
Member
Lard, a lot of that stuff in the post you quoted was either inaccurate, or just outright wrong. Though I agree with the general sentiment that s1-3 and 4-6 are very disparate in their focus (except for the "it's all about the characters" series finale, which shares more in common with seasons 1-3), people need to get their facts right if they're going to post walls of text complaining about the show.
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