LOST 06.17/18/18.5: "The End" (Everything Else Was Just Progress)
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Baron Aloha
A Shining Example
Teen Eloise > Shannon > Kate > Sarah > Naomi > Alex > Juliet > Sun > Charlotte > Ana Lucia > Young Eloise > Penny > Libby > Old Eloise > Zoe
1 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 4 > 6
1 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 4 > 6
Baki
Member
All I can say is wow...I can't believe its over. The ending is bitter-sweet. Bitter because Jack dies and does not get the opportunity to live out his life with Kate. Sweet because they all meet up again after they die and move on together.
I honestly can't believe that only Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Hurley and Ben survive out of the "main" characters.
I honestly can't believe that only Sawyer, Kate, Claire, Hurley and Ben survive out of the "main" characters.
Illana might have been his daughter in the script at one point, but the show is what matters, and in the show, she is not. She says Jacob was "the closest thing I ever had to a father". I imagine they just cut the story line, but in the same way Smokey's name might have once been Samuel on paper, it's not mentioned in the show, and until a canon piece of media is released with that in, his name is not Samuel.
I do wonder what was cut this season. At ComicCon it was shown that sideways Kate didn't kill her father, she was accused of killing his apprentice instead, in this season she claims to not be guilty, and never mentions who she was meant to have killed. The Illana thing was cut too it seems. I don't really know how they wouldn't know from the start which stories they could, and couldn't include this season.
I do wonder what was cut this season. At ComicCon it was shown that sideways Kate didn't kill her father, she was accused of killing his apprentice instead, in this season she claims to not be guilty, and never mentions who she was meant to have killed. The Illana thing was cut too it seems. I don't really know how they wouldn't know from the start which stories they could, and couldn't include this season.
infinityBCRT
Member
StuBurns said:
I guess it was nearly impossible for them to introduce any more back story as soon as this season started because they ditched flashbacks/flash forwards for flash sideways... a place where theres no Island so we would never ever get to know what happened in her real life.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Zen said:
I only did the first three quarters and divided them into two categories:
I might be wrong about some stuff.
Stuff that was obviously answered or isn't relevant to anything larger than trivia:
The monster killed the pilot because he didn't want people to leave the island. Christian Shepard's body could have been knocked out of the coffin during the crash. The psychic was lying to Claire. The sound the smoke monster makes is really pretty irrelevant. The horse is on the island from the Dharma initiative. Henry Gale got buried under his balloon. Libby's story isn't relevant. The four toed statue was built by the Egyptians. The reason why you need a specific compass bearing to leave the island is because the electromagnetic properties screw up magnetic equipment--of course, that doesn't explain anything else about the island moving. Tom wore a fake beard presumably to disguise himself if he were caught, same as Ben impersonating Henry Gale. Libby's previous husband was irrelevant. The skeletons in the polar bear cave were Mother and the Man in Black's body. Locke and Eko presumably got blasted out of the hatch when it exploded--how they survived, no idea. Locke presumably couldn't talk after the explosion because being in an explosion hurt his throat. Eko's entire plot got cut/rolled in to other stuff. The Russian letter in Mikhail's typewriter was irrelevant. Why the supply drop menu was hidden behind a game of chess is irrelevant, presumably it was another Dharma psychological experiment. How the Monks at Desmond's monastery knew Eloise is irrelevant. Ben saw his dead mother because he was having a vision or because Smokey was occupying her form. What happened to Ben's childhood friend Annie was irrelevant. Desmond's false vision of Claire and Aaron leaving the island wasn't explained, but who says he wasn't lying to Charlie about it to begin with? Mikhail didn't come back to life--the one time he almost died was when he went to the sonic fence, and they later explained it wasn't set to lethal force. Who knows whose eye was in the cabin window besides Christian Shepard. Naomi's bracelet doesn't matter. The time difference on Faraday's watches was because the island distorts normal time. Ben wasn't surprised that they were able to kill Alex, he was surprised that they were willing to kill Alex. Jack saw his ghost dad in LA because he was nuts and hallucinating. No idea why Smokey as Horace directed Locke to the cabin, but it's not relevant. The Oceanic 6 name Charlie, Boone, and Libby as the other three survivors presumably because they wanted to come up with a believable story. Why Miles decides to stay on the island is irrelevant. Ben makes the Oceanic Six come back to the island both because he has to for Jacob and because he thinks it'll make him head of the island again. The men who tried to capture Sayid and Hurley were presumably working for either Widmore or Ben. Ben talking to the butcher was talking in code about non-island members of the Others. I think Ben took C4 out of his vent. The Smoke Monster wasn't at the Temple, he was near and under the Temple. Presumably because he was trying to get in. The second flight had to have the same people as the first flight so that the right people would time travel to cause the events that led to the events that caused the first flight to crash.
Stuff that didn't get answered:
The supply drop went unexplained. The Others child/fertility story ended up unresolved. Walt's special powers ended up unresolved. I have no idea why Jack wasn't on Jacob's list when he was doing Ben's surgery, I asked that myself--but I assume it's because Jacob originally was planned to have a list of candidates to replace Ben (which is the direction they were going with with Locke's story) but that changed in the end. I have no idea about the fertility thing, that's a serious plot hole. Juliet getting branded when she was found guilty was part of the Others justice system--remember they even had that Sheriff type figure? That never got elaborated on in the end. The rules between Ben and Widmore were never explained and is a serious plot hole. No idea how Christian Shepard appeared on the freighter. The frozen wheel isn't explained, but the Man in Black basically says "it's a wheel that moves the island and uses magic light" so that's good enough for me. They never explain who is shooting at the gang during the time travel. Eloise's elaborate pendulum / island finding system isn't explained but presumably from her association with Widmore and his lifelong goal of getting back to the island, they were connected. Actually, most of the stuff done by Sun's father / Widmore / Eloise was clearly something they planned to explain at one point and then decided not to.
TheGreatDave
Banned
I think the Other's fertility issues were wrapped up fairly nicely. After Jughead women who got pregnant ended up having their bodies turn against the baby, because something something white blood cells. They brought Juliet to the island to try and fix it, and when Clairewas able to give birth (presumably because she wasn't on the island long enough for it to effect her) they wanted to do tests on her and Aaron.
Drealmcc0y
Banned
1>6>2>5>3>4
I think it was a case of over teasing. I don't know if you've ever had this experience, but if someone knows you know something you aren't meant to tell, they'll beg you for hours, demanding to know, and once you tell them they're annoyed it's not interesting enough to warrant the pestering they did. I think 'Sam' is similar. They teased us with this guy's name for a whole year, then because it wouldn't have delivered anything special, they bailed on it to avoid the criticism for cockteasing.CrankyJay said:
TheGreatDave
Banned
MIB is a better name than anything else they could have came up with.
Just chucked a post about the lost finale up on my blog - figured you guys might be interested in it.
Feel free to tear it apart! :lol
http://stuckinchurch.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/the-lost-finale-faith-over-reason/
Feel free to tear it apart! :lol
http://stuckinchurch.wordpress.com/2010/05/26/the-lost-finale-faith-over-reason/
The problem with Lost is that it relied to heavily on narrative devices that the writers had no intentions of explaining. The show has always been about the characters but when these same characters revolve around these same narrative devices then we begin to see the show fall apart.
For example, why was Walt special? Because their needed to be conflict in season 2. Why was fertility a big issue with the others? Because they needed a problem to solve. Why was MIB evil and wanted to leave so badly? Because their needed to be an antagonist.
The writers relied on these narrative devices and when it came time to explaining them in some meaning full way things fell apart. (ie Across the sea).
Lost to me is a show with bi polar disorder. When its running on all cylinders its one of the best shows on TV, when it misses its mark it's embarrassing to watch. Of course, you can't have the great shows if your not willing to have the bad ones.
For example, why was Walt special? Because their needed to be conflict in season 2. Why was fertility a big issue with the others? Because they needed a problem to solve. Why was MIB evil and wanted to leave so badly? Because their needed to be an antagonist.
The writers relied on these narrative devices and when it came time to explaining them in some meaning full way things fell apart. (ie Across the sea).
Lost to me is a show with bi polar disorder. When its running on all cylinders its one of the best shows on TV, when it misses its mark it's embarrassing to watch. Of course, you can't have the great shows if your not willing to have the bad ones.
leroy hacker
Member
Pakkidis said:
Walt was kidnapped just because he was a kid(the others didn't even know he was "special" at the time) and Michael wanted him back because he was his son. Walt's being special played such a small in season 2 that if he hadn't been so the only difference would have been a few lines of dialogue in the last two episodes. Its main significance was in season 1 as a source of mystery.
Pakkidis said:
Because he was betrayed by his mother, tossed into a pit by his brother, losing his body and humanity as a result, and was trapped on a deserted island for 2000 years. That, unlike the infertility, was reasonably and directly explained.
if i had to rank the seasons
s1>s4>s3>=s6>s2>s5
the last 5 episodes of s3 are still the best run in the history of lost tho, the brig, the man behind the curtain, greatest hits, and through the looking glass >>>>>>>>> anything else
ranking the women of lost
series finale juliet > kate > juliet > s6 charlotte >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest
s1>s4>s3>=s6>s2>s5
the last 5 episodes of s3 are still the best run in the history of lost tho, the brig, the man behind the curtain, greatest hits, and through the looking glass >>>>>>>>> anything else
ranking the women of lost
series finale juliet > kate > juliet > s6 charlotte >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest
lost star michael emerson puts a creepy spin on everyday phrases
http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/51...-puts-a-creepy-spin-on-everyday-phrases.jhtml
Might've been posted but gave me a laugh. Gotta get a LOST fix from somewhere.
http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/51...-puts-a-creepy-spin-on-everyday-phrases.jhtml
Might've been posted but gave me a laugh. Gotta get a LOST fix from somewhere.
greepoman said:lost star michael emerson puts a creepy spin on everyday phrases
http://www.mtv.com/videos/movies/51...-puts-a-creepy-spin-on-everyday-phrases.jhtml
Might've been posted but gave me a laugh. Gotta get a LOST fix from somewhere.
Michael Emerson making mundane things sound creepy and sinister never gets old. I think the best I've seen was when he recited Little Boy Blue.
From everything that we saw I feel sorry for the MiB. I don't see why him leaving the island would have been so terrible. I know that crazy "Mother" told us that it would be bad, but I don't have any faith that she knew what she was doing anymore then Jacob or Jack. I know he was suppose to be an embodiment of evil things, but all he wanted was to see the world and get away from the killer of his mother. From the Canidates perspective he only seems evil in this join me or die kind of way, but if I was stuck on a island against my will for thousands of years I'm sure I' would get a bit crazy too he was just a man after all.
I was also thinking back to that time when Eko saw the black smoke and it showed him things about his past. That was one of the few things about the black smoke monster that I haven't seen anyone talk about yet. Why would MiB do that just to kill him with his brother a few episodes later?
I was also thinking back to that time when Eko saw the black smoke and it showed him things about his past. That was one of the few things about the black smoke monster that I haven't seen anyone talk about yet. Why would MiB do that just to kill him with his brother a few episodes later?
robertsan21
Member
questions:
on island people, jack,saywer,kate and the entire ocianic crew in the first epiosde of season 1, did they all die from the planecrash and everything that happened on that island was just a dream?
question regarding this episosde: Where did, miles,richard,lapidus,kate and sawyer go after the plane left the island?
what happened in the church, did they all just vanish and dissapear? or was that entire world they lived in not the real world ?
on island people, jack,saywer,kate and the entire ocianic crew in the first epiosde of season 1, did they all die from the planecrash and everything that happened on that island was just a dream?
question regarding this episosde: Where did, miles,richard,lapidus,kate and sawyer go after the plane left the island?
what happened in the church, did they all just vanish and dissapear? or was that entire world they lived in not the real world ?
ElurI said:
Maybe it's just me, but I'm not particularly keen on the idea of an immortal being who hates humanity and can turn into a smoke monster wandering around freely throughout our society. But again, maybe that's just me.
As for why Mother wanted to keep him on the island? She was crazy, and she had more faith in him as the protector than Jacob.
He kept Eko alive because he saw something in him that he thought he could use. He killed him when he showed that he wouldn't be so easily used. That's what MIB does. He uses people, then kills them when he has no use for them anymore.
The Orange
Member
robertsan21 said:
1. They didn't die.
2. They left the island, where they went is anyone's guess, probably they lived their lives as normally as they could until their deaths...
3. ...and when they died, they came into the other reality, the one with the church and all, which is the afterlife.
Pakkidis said:
I see it as people placing too much on the narrative devices and not the characters.
Although it may be a copout by lack of explanation, I think the show did explain that some people, once in a blue moon, have special abilities. That was the narrative device, not the actual ability.Pakkidis said:
- They never explained Hurley's ability to talk to dead people
- MiB had the ability to at least understand things immediately and/or read minds before becoming Smokey
- Jacob had powers out the wazoo that appeared to be seperate from his role on the Island
- Walt had teleportation abilities or flat out could create stuff.
- Desmond possibly had his ability prior to the Island
Our mistake was in automatically accepting some of them (Hurley) and not others (Walt) without detailed explanations.
So the writers relied on these devices not only to explain the characters but also to advance the story. I've come to appreciate that these devices are no more important than figuring out how Superman can fly. His flying gets him to where he needs to go. Ditto for the devices. It's not like there would ever be a scientific (or religious) reason for a man turning into a Smoke monster.Pakkidis said:
robertsan21
Member
StuBurns said:
no it was not a joke, so the entire onisland action was real.
so why did we have an alternate timeline where they had to meet and then move on if they never died on the island??
leroy hacker said:
When was he betrayed by his mother? She was right about the people on the Island- something that MiB agreed with. If anything, he betrayed her.
Mib may not have been evil at first, but he was at least selfish since childhood which is really just a small step away from being bad/evil.
Okay cool, just checking. This is what happened.robertsan21 said:
Lost from season one, to the first episode of season six was all real (except little bits like Locke tripping balls etc).
In LA X (the first episode this season) we see what appears to be an alternate timeline caused by the H bomb which also appeared to destroy the island.
In the final episode it's revealed this was not an alternate timeline at all, it was purgatory, created by the characters. At the end, once Jack knows this, all the characters in the church go to heaven.
robertsan21
Member
StuBurns said:
thanks thats a great answer to my questions.
now I am not lost anymore
Gamecocks625
Member
My wife and I are going to rewatch the series on DVD. Are the special features interesting?
Son of Godzilla
Banned
Oh come on, surely you can appreciate the difference between a show earning it's moments and just turning on the cheesey music and roilling a flashback clip.Solo said:
robertsan21
Member
question regarding the island.
why did it need protection?
and what did father sheaperd mean when he said "some died before and some after" or something like that.
and why couldnt the smok monster leave, I know they said it would kill everything..but he looked like he would be a good guy once he would be off the island,why would he destroy the world he would be going to?
why did it need protection?
and what did father sheaperd mean when he said "some died before and some after" or something like that.
and why couldnt the smok monster leave, I know they said it would kill everything..but he looked like he would be a good guy once he would be off the island,why would he destroy the world he would be going to?
Sir Garbageman
Member
Ranking the Seasons I'd Go:
S1 > S4 > S3 > S2 > S6 > S5
Outside of a few story arcs, loved them all though.
And to mix things up, top 6 favorite episodes:
Pilot
The Constant
Walkabout
Through the Looking Glass
The End
Live Together, Die Alone
Ab Aeterno and There's No Place Like Home as runner's up.
S1 > S4 > S3 > S2 > S6 > S5
Outside of a few story arcs, loved them all though.
And to mix things up, top 6 favorite episodes:
Pilot
The Constant
Walkabout
Through the Looking Glass
The End
Live Together, Die Alone
Ab Aeterno and There's No Place Like Home as runner's up.
Gamecocks625
Member
robertsan21 said:
Not everyone died at the same time. Some people like Sun, Jin, Sayid, etc. died before Jack. Kate, Sawyer, Hurley died after.
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