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[franconp]

Complete

So, what was the point of the message then? There is nothing there. No info, no reads, no comment, nothing.

It's only you asking for someone to confirm that he got the message and a way to confirm that you sent it. But you don't share nothing.

The way I see it's like you knew that the message wouldn't reach your target and the content of the message is to see if it would reach. Or something that you made up to support a weak roleclaim.

 

[Ourobolus]

So, what was the point of the message then? There is nothing there. No info, no reads, no comment, nothing.

It's only you asking for someone to confirm that he got the message and a way to confirm that you sent it. But you don't share nothing.

The way I see it's like you knew that the message wouldn't reach your target and the content of the message is to see if it would reach. Or something that you made up to support a weak roleclaim.

Jesus christ. I just can't with your conspiracy theories.

Ok, you get a message with reads. Who's it from? Are they scum? Are they town? Are they legit reads? Are they trying to misdirect you? If you had a message to send, what would you have sent? Reads don't mean shit from a PM, since you don't know who they are from or what their alignment is. And why wouldn't I just post the reads in the main thread anyway? Why bother sending them over PM? What other info would I possibly have? "Oh, Fran, by the way we are also Cop Trackers, and we saw Sorian sticking his Scum finger into Verelios's ass on N1, so clearly we should lynch them!"

 

[Sophia]

I think what Fran is trying to get at is: What's the usefulness of an encoded town read?

 

[kingkitty]

So, what was the point of the message then? There is nothing there. No info, no reads, no comment, nothing.

It's only you asking for someone to confirm that he got the message and a way to confirm that you sent it. But you don't share nothing.

The way I see it's like you knew that the message wouldn't reach your target and the content of the message is to see if it would reach. Or something that you made up to support a weak roleclaim.

The only thing we could share as "info" are some reads. That's it. We can share that in the public thread. And we can notify the receiver of the note of our reads through the code words.

The strategic point of the message (at least from my point of view) was to see if the note was successful in reaching it's target, and to have a way of identifying ourselves to the target. If we thought our target was totally town, I guess we'd send more notes, but in the end it's limited unless we somehow received some secret-nonpublic information that we could share with that pair.

 

[Xbro]

hey Xbro



are you still going anywhere with this?

Debating it with myself, probably not. If I was right then you are town and saying it would be bad for you. If I'm wrong it would still give some negative attention.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think what Fran is trying to get at is: What's the usefulness of an encoded town read?

The theory was to let our target know that we were messengers and that we wanted to essentially signal to them that it was us if we thought they were "townie." There's not a whole lot you can do with the role outside of some half-hearted background communications anyway. Once you get something like that going in the background, you can keep each other alive through voting, hopefully by not alerting scum or sending a message to one of them. Then the group stays alive long enough, hopefully, so that when we get closer to endgame, we "know" who the town is and can hopefully determine who the scum is by who else is remaining.

It's not a perfect plan, but again, there's not a shit ton you can do with the role.

 

[Sophia]

Yeah, it's a very tame power if you're town aligned, that's for sure. Then again, I am reminded of Of Gods and Men where Dragonz was scum and used a similar power to to deceive me. So I can definitely see the kind of utility you describe there... Hm..

 

[franconp]

Jesus christ. I just can't with your conspiracy theories.

Ok, you get a message with reads. Who's it from? Are they scum? Are they town? Are they legit reads? Are they trying to misdirect you? If you had a message to send, what would you have sent? Reads don't mean shit from a PM, since you don't know who they are from or what their alignment is. And why wouldn't I just post the reads in the main thread anyway? Why bother sending them over PM? What other info would I possibly have? "Oh, Fran, by the way we are also Cop Trackers, and we saw Sorian sticking his Scum finger into Verelios's ass on N1, so clearly we should lynch them!"

I think the biggest point of the townie mailman is for the sender to share his reads just in case he is nightkilled. So the receiver has the reads of a confirmed townie that he can use to help him.

When I said info I was mostly saying something that you spoted during your read of the thread and it thought it was weird.

But the way you used the message seems weird to me. You just ask for someone to confirm that he got it and you may inform me or not who you are. Why does it matter to me? I don't know if you are town. What "circle of trust" can we form if you did nothing to make me feel that you are town?

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Ouro's drive to survive seems to have to taken a turn

/eats chicken popcorn

 

[Sorian]

As someone who has had a messenger power before, I can say for sure that I would both leave an encoded way of proving that I am who I am and also top reads of who i would lynch (with my own name mixed in to add confusion so if I sent the message to scum they don't realize right away that it's me). I would also send the message to my top town reads.

Obviously everyone is different but the messages Ouro shows seems a lot like self-preservation tactics with not much else.

Thank you for finally giving reads though even if you did just laze out on half of them and just toss it all into a list at the end anyway.

is it normal for a roleblocker/hooker/whoever to get notification if they successfully blocked an action?

No, that would be extremely abnormal if they did and it would also effetively make them a PR cop.

Vote: ourobolus

Your move bruh

His move in what?

This has been bugging me so, Sorian, you saw my vote and everything on kitsune D1 and responded:

So you seemed to agree they were a decent lynch.
Then they didn't gain a ton of steam, but Crimson eventually joined and Darryl voted the same time you made this:

Why didn't you join us? What made Orb a better wagon? Orb maybe had one more vote from your POV, but that's nothing a little pushing and a vote can't solve.

I didn't see Darryl's vote here, the time stamps are a minute a part but he posted at the end of the minute and I posted at the start of the next. I debated switching over but I went for Orb and I don't like posting unnecessarily that late in day if I think things are shifting too much because of the minute cool down on posts. The leader had 6 votes and the game had a nasty streak of non committal people so I'd rather make a wagon that is only 2 behind rather then 3.

 

[Ourobolus]

I think the biggest point of the townie mailman is for the sender to share his reads just in case he is nightkilled. So the receiver has the reads of a confirmed townie that he can use to help him.

When I said info I was mostly saying something that you spoted during your read of the thread and it thought it was weird.

But the way you used the message seems weird to me. You just ask for someone to confirm that he got it and you may inform me or not who you are. Why does it matter to me? I don't know if you are town. What "circle of trust" can we form if you did nothing to make me feel that you are town?

Again, if I get nightkilled, my reads are in the thread. I don't need to PM them to anyone.

And obviously our alignment is unknown, that's the problem with the role and its usage. It's not a foolproof plan or anything, there's always going to be some doubt. Best case we get confirmed by a cop or something and that plugs that hole.

As for receiving the message, it's benign enough that I don't see why anyone wouldn't at minimum come out and say the next day "oh I received a message." Doesn't even have to go into detail. There's nothing townie or scummy about claiming you received a message.

 

[Ourobolus]

As someone who has had a messenger power before, I can say for sure that I would both leave an encoded way of proving that I am who I am and also top reads of who i would lynch (with my own name mixed in to add confusion so if I sent the message to scum they don't realize right away that it's me). I would also send the message to my top town reads.

Obviously everyone is different but the messages Ouro shows seems a lot like self-preservation tactics with not much else.

Thank you for finally giving reads though even if you did just laze out on half of them and just toss it all into a list at the end anyway.

Preservation? N1 I wasn't worried about self-preservation. And again, that's great that you provided reads when you had the role, but why not just post them in the thread? Why even bother with it in the PM? It's not like you have a secondary role that provides extra information.

And in my re-read of the thread, I even outlined my reasoning for my votes in-line. I tossed them at the end too so that they were all in one spot.

 

[Sorian]

I will say, all said and done, I still think all of this comes from a scum Ouro. I do think he was roleblocked, I do not think he is a messenger.

I think his vote count is at like 7? Not going to push it up by one now since people are actively talking. Will check back in after my raid.

 

[franconp]

Again, if I get nightkilled, my reads are in the thread. I don't need to PM them to anyone.

And obviously our alignment is unknown, that's the problem with the role and its usage. It's not a foolproof plan or anything, there's always going to be some doubt. Best case we get confirmed by a cop or something and that plugs that hole.

As for receiving the message, it's benign enough that I don't see why anyone wouldn't at minimum come out and say the next day "oh I received a message." Doesn't even have to go into detail. There's nothing townie or scummy about claiming you received a message.

Your reads can change after a flip from a lynch. Even more when the flip was from scum.

 

[Sorian]

Preservation? N1 I wasn't worried about self-preservation. And again, that's great that you provided reads when you had the role, but why not just post them in the thread? Why even bother with it in the PM? It's not like you have a secondary role that provides extra information.

And in my re-read of the thread, I even outlined my reasoning for my votes in-line. I tossed them at the end too so that they were all in one spot.

I'm sure a part of it is because I'm cocky and my line of thinking was if I am giving someone private info that they are automatically going to take it in a bit more because it came from a source outside the bounds of the usual game and that might make swaying their vote easier in thread.

That's stylized more to me though. I would think everyone would do odd things but more than just, here's a code word so you know it's me later *wink wink*

 

[Sorian]

Your reads can change after a flip from a lynch. Even more when the flip was from scum.

Also this is a good point to, town never knows when they are going to die, it's a last ditch way of getting reads out there.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

His move in what?

.

I want him to convince me that he's not scum. I want him to prove it within reasonable doubt. This mail carrier gambit he has going right now is getting holes blown in it and Sophia is helping justify my early vote with her questions

 

[Sophia]

I want him to convince me that he's not scum. I want him to prove it within reasonable doubt. This mail carrier gambit he has going right now is getting holes blown in it and Sophia is helping justify my early vote with her questions

... what in the flying hell are you talking about?

 

[kingkitty]

I will say, all said and done, I still think all of this comes from a scum Ouro. I do think he was roleblocked, I do not think he is a messenger.

you probably said this somewhere already, but you think roleblocker is town/neutral? or that there are multiple roleblockers?

the virgin thing seems like if there was a roleblocker, it would be scum, no?

 

[franconp]

you probably said this somewhere already, but you think roleblocker is town/neutral? or that there are multiple roleblockers?

the virgin thing seems like if there was a roleblocker, it would be scum, no?

I was thinking the same.

Sorian seems convinced that the Hooker can be a townie role when it usually is a scum one.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

... what in the flying hell are you talking about?

iirc in day 2 I voted for Ouro and what you are saying is basically confirming for what I've suspected

 

[Sorian]

you probably said this somewhere already, but you think roleblocker is town/neutral? or that there are multiple roleblockers?

the virgin thing seems like if there was a roleblocker, it would be scum, no?

The roleblocker could easily be scum, that's where a hooker is 99% of the time but I don't think anything is forcing it into the alignment and I definitely don't think blocking you twice says much of anything about alignment.

So, yes, I do believe they could be town or neutral.

 

[Sophia]

Whatever power that could disable the virgin doesn't make much sense as a town role. Why would town have a random role to disable another townie's power? Neutral, perhaps.

 

[Sophia]

iirc in day 2 I voted for Ouro and what you are saying is basically confirming for what I've suspected

... I don't get it? What exactly am I saying that's apparently somehow justifying your vote on Ouro. I've barely been active this day phase due to having a dull weekend. o_o

 

[hey_monkey]

If there's a scum aligned hooker it makes zero sense for them to sit on Ourokitty twice, though. Because - and correct me if I'm wrong - if a hooker targets a virgin they lose the power, right? So wouldn't you want to target randoms until or unless you have a good reason to block someone?

Does the hooker usually know they are a hooker?

 

[hey_monkey]

(ugh, I hate the word "hooker" about as much as I hate "lynch." mafia, fun game, rather insensitive.)

 

[Sophia]

If there's a scum aligned hooker it makes zero sense for them to sit on Ourokitty twice, though. Because - and correct me if I'm wrong - if a hooker targets a virgin they lose the power, right? So wouldn't you want to target randoms until or unless you have a good reason to block someone?

Does the hooker usually know they are a hooker?

I'd assume a hooker would be aware, yes. You have a point about targeting Ouro/KK twice too. If you knew there was a virgin out there, why would you target anyone more than once? The only explanation I can think of for why a hooker would target someone twice is if they didn't know their power would disable the virgin.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

... I don't get it? What exactly am I saying that's apparently somehow justifying your vote on Ouro. I've barely been active this day phase due to having a dull weekend. o_o

I'm having a case of confirmation bias

you're helping

 

[franconp]

Whatever power that could disable the virgin doesn't make much sense as a town role. Why would town have a random role to disable another townie's power? Neutral, perhaps.

How would a Neutral Hooker work? What would be their objetive? What would be their objetive now that the virgins are dead?

To me it makes more sense as a scum role.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'd assume a hooker would be aware, yes. You have a point about targeting Ouro/KK twice too. If you knew there was a virgin out there, why would you target anyone more than once? The only explanation I can think of for why a hooker would target someone twice is if they didn't know their power would disable the virgin.

I guess a newbie scum could have that problem but if you're labeled a "hooker"* then you probably know. If it's not in the role name, this is possible. Mafia scum seems to say it's usually the role name. I know that's not 100% here, but. Though I assume things like this would get discussed in scum chat, power usages and such.

*this assumption is based on me but I look up everything so am probably not a typical source

 

[Ourobolus]

Your reads can change after a flip from a lynch. Even more when the flip was from scum.

holy hell you don't say

 

[Ourobolus]

Also this is a good point to, town never knows when they are going to die, it's a last ditch way of getting reads out there.

oh yeah, we've been on the cusp of getting NK'd every night

so townie

 

[Sophia]

How would a Neutral Hooker work? What would be their objetive? What would be their objetive now that the virgins are dead?

To me it makes more sense as a scum role.

Not a clue, hence why I added "perhaps" to the end of that. I just don't think that (IF IT EXISTS) it would be town-aligned. That adds an anti-town element to the game that is firmly out of control of either side.

(And before anyone says "But Sophia, in Pineapple Pizza Mafia..." shaddup I knew what I was doing there! >_<)

I guess a newbie scum could have that problem but if you're labeled a "hooker"* then you probably know. If it's not in the role name, this is possible. Mafia scum seems to say it's usually the role name. I know that's not 100% here, but. Though I assume things like this would get discussed in scum chat, power usages and such.

*this assumption is based on me but I look up everything so am probably not a typical source

Honestly, I think we're kind of speculating a bit too much. Without confirming Ouro/KK's role as a mailman, it's kind of difficult to even confirm the existence of a hooker.

 

[Ourobolus]

I want him to convince me that he's not scum. I want him to prove it within reasonable doubt. This mail carrier gambit he has going right now is getting holes blown in it and Sophia is helping justify my early vote with her questions

I couldn't be less concerned with your vote.

And no, there haven't been any "holes" blown into it regardless of what fanfic you're writing in your chat.

 

[Ourobolus]

The roleblocker could easily be scum, that's where a hooker is 99% of the time but I don't think anything is forcing it into the alignment and I definitely don't think blocking you twice says much of anything about alignment.

So, yes, I do believe they could be town or neutral.

Literally no reason for it to be town. Town roleblockers are already mostly negative utility since they can block Town PRs unknowingly. Adding on another layer of fucking up a teammate's role by permanently disabling it is ridiculous.

I guess in theory it could be a neutral role, but I can't fathom what the win condition for the role would be.

Occam's Razor - it's a scum roleblocker.

 

[kingkitty]

Honestly, I think we're kind of speculating a bit too much. Without confirming Ouro/KK's role as a mailman, it's kind of difficult to even confirm the existence of a hooker.

but we know the existence of the virgin.

anyways, going to finish up a post before I watch Giant Bomb.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

Is hooker a mailman?

 

[Ourobolus]

Is hooker a mailman?

I'm going to assume these are words that were supposed to be related to each other but came out incorrectly

 

[Sophia]

but we know the existence of the virgin.

anyways, going to finish up a post before I watch Giant Bomb.

We know the existence of a virgin, and we know the existence of a way to disable the virgin. That's technically it.

It most likely points to a hooker, but I'm being pedantic. >_>

 

[Ourobolus]

but I'm being pedantic. >_>

seems to be going around

 

[Dr. Worm]

Is hooker a mailman?

This is what I've been mulling over. It would work.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

This is what I've been mulling over. It would work.

What's a virgin if a mailman is a hooker?

I see you Ouro

 

[franconp]

What's a virgin if a mailman is a hooker?

I see you Ouro

Spoiler

No, really. That doesn't make sense at all.

 

[Dr. Worm]

What's a virgin if a mailman is a hooker?

Dead.

 

[Ourobolus]

What's a virgin if a mailman is a hooker?

I see you Ouro

what the fuck are you talking about

 

[kingkitty]

who was phone

 

[Dr. Worm]

who was phone

is this a rolefish?

 

[Ourobolus]

is this a rolefish?

I hate you

 

[Sorian]

More like catfishing

amirite?

 

[kingkitty]

I looked through scum kitsune's posts and see how much shade/friction there was in that person's posts in relation to others. I haven't skimmed through everyone's posts regarding kitsune, so I won't get every shade, but just from what kitsune posted.

Obviously scum is going to have some fake slaps between teammates, but whatever, I think in the end enough friction can lead to the light. I've tried to only include friction between kitsune and people who are alive (and are not my pair).

But it wouldn't work with my self depreciation to phrase it any other way. Either way... It seems like a silly nitpick over phrasing to me.

A little friction with franconp over the "not wanting to be a target for mafia" line.

Well, night killed, yeah. But I was talking about turning the town on me and getting lynched, which I risked in my earlier game because it was my first time playing forum mafia. And the joke is I learned from it. But joking about learning from something only to inflict the something you were supposed to be learning from is the very definition of irony.

A little friction with Natiko over the same sentence.

Well yeah. I've kind of got nothing to say to someone who wasn't actually involved in the argument and offered no thoughts on it.

Seems to be a little bit of shade directed towards Sorian.

"That's dumb" isn't really anything substantial for me to comment on? Like I don't know what you're expecting me to say, here

Lil bit of defensive shade again at Sorian

Y'all, I hope the lack of allowed post editing isn't what does me in, because damn

Lil bit of defensive shade against Xbro

Because what I agree with doesn't indicate any specific read one way or the other. There's no "tells" in anything I can see out of those.

A bit of friction against franconp's questioning of kitsunelaine's read of TWE pair.

Okie dokie!
[snip]
Vote: Franconp

Lots of worded shade against franconp pair

I'm keeping a promise to be active in a game that I'm struggling to follow. It's a meta promise, not an ingame promise.

a post made after a bit of pushback from sorian

What? Someone else did a deep dive read of Fran...?

a little more sorian pushback.

Just because you can't fathom it doesn't make it so.

some shade against Sophia.

The thing about Wormconp is that you have to read them as a pair. As a pair they come across super scummy.

shade against franconp pair

I generally try to have as much fun as I can with whatever it is that I do. If that comes across as dishonest to you, that's fine, I guess.

when i'm not busy doing other things I guess? There's only so long I want a post to be, and it was already getting pretty up there.

friction with sophia, then franconp

Of course you do, I just made a read against you.

franconp v kitsune friction, decent amount of quotes of friction

It's hard to read through the entirety of posts of someone who posts so much and makes such long posts, so I kind of set myself up for failiure there, didn't I. But that's beside the point when what I was actually complaining about was that so many of the responses were calling me out for tone. Why the misdirect?

Also, Ty4ion, I realize the conversation shifted to first person directness and not generalities there now so I'm just going to say: if you weren't personally acting like that, fine, just don't feel personally targeted by me calling others out.

Maybe at least friction between kitsune v sorian, and kitsune v typhoon.

Here's what I think from these posts:
dr.franconp not on same scum team - 92 percent chance

from what I looked at, there was bits of varying friction/shade with Sorian/sophia/xbro/natiko. I'll look at the other scum member's posts tomorrow before I think I have enough to give more percentages.

Also my heart wants to say the starsketch team are not on the same scum team because of the whole "RNG" read thing on franconp. Apparently both Sketch and kitsune did something similar, which seems like a real (easily avoidable) messup if they share a scumchat. Gonna walk the cat bye.