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[Sophia]

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I've been reading this a fair bit. Crimson, Sophia, why the muted response? What did you think of it back then? Anything from your own chat at the time?

You referring to kitsu's post there? I talk about it on the next page, and I think we brought something up, but I can't check very easily right now.

 

[Ty4on]

You referring to kitsu's post there? I talk about it on the next page, and I think we brought something up, but I can't check very easily right now.

NP

More interested in Crimson as he didn't really mention it iirc.

VOTE: Xbro

Sorry for the late vote. I started kinda on nothing today, but I dislike the lack of voting trails too.

 

[Darryl]

After looking over some of the votes, voting justifications, and breakdown of the different wagons I feel more gathered in my thoughts again. My strongest feelings on scum at this point would be that either Kark/Xbro or Crimson/Sophia are likely to be scum. I believe that there was likely to be at least one scum on the kitsune lynch and feel that it's also unlikely that there were zero scum on the Orb/TWE lynch D1 of which Crimson and Xbro are the only people on it that aren't confirmed town or a strong town lean in my book (Dr. Worm and Sorian). D3 for both groups are also not reassuring as Kark and Xbro just hop on the Ouro lynch fairly late comparatively while Crimson and Sophia never bother to put votes down. If I was to pick one of the two pairs that I would think is most likely to produce scum then I would go with Crimson and Sophia.

VOTE: CrimsonFist

The biggest reasoning being D1 end doesn't feel like a push to save Kark and there aren't many votes that could have been the ones pushing to save him if he is scum. This makes me feel Crimson/Sophia are the more likely scum duo.

I would also vote out rac/acohrs or Star if it came down to it because I still lean scum on both, just not as strongly as one of the pairs mentioned above. Star really is all down to the fact that her and her shuffling partners have given us almost nothing. There's not even much vote history to look at. The lack of info makes Star/AB a concern. rac/acohrs on the other hand have a bit more behind them. I already mentioned how I think Crimson/Sophia (or potentially Kark/Xbro) will flip scum and part of that is due to D1. Rac/acohrs predecessors voted on the counter wagon in that situation. They then also voted off wagon D2 while FEP voted counter wagon and potentially the other scum bussed kit/FEP.

TLDR:

Preferred lynch today (from yes to fine with it):
Crimson/Sophia
Kark/Xbro

rac/acohrs

Star/AB

I can buy Crimson and Sophia being scum. Their posts flip back and forth between accurate contributive assessments and sitting in the shadows. Almost randomly. They seem to be paying the most attention while also leading the least.

I don't know if I posted this before but the reason I chose Kit specifically to bandwagon day 1, besides fitting the obvious profile of a potential coasting scum, was because Crim voted for them. I was town reading them earlier but I had soured by the end of the night bc of how Crim responded to me and Sor. I thought Crimsons vote felt weak and like it wasn't going to go anywhere so I wanted to push it. Like it was a scum idly voting another scum.

But there are some things that make me read them as town even if they're kinda aloof feeling. Like Crim suggesting to not lynch Sor because of blocking a night kill. This is a really dangerous suggestion if Sor is actually town. Maybe scumCrim knows Sor isn't likely to be a threat with the blocks. Dunno.

I like the idea of lynching Karkador as well but I don't get that gut desire for a juicy flip. They're just super unhelpful. I expected something by now from them

 

[Natiko]

I don't really give Crimson townie points for pointing out leaving Sorian alone for now is the best move. As scum if you're thinking this all through it's not too hard to come to the realization that someone will eventually point that out. I say that knowing full well I too pointed it out. It's more NAI to me.

 

[Darryl]

I don't really give Crimson townie points for pointing out leaving Sorian alone for now is the best move. As scum if you're thinking this all through it's not too hard to come to the realization that someone will eventually point that out. I say that knowing full well I too pointed it out. It's more NAI to me.

I can feel it. Until Crim mentioned it, the idea of them blocking a lynch hadn't crossed my mind. The reasoning behind your post is pretty flimsy itself although I agree with the message. I didn't feel like we were trying to save Kark day #1 either.

I remember Sorian saying Sawneeks was building a case in PMs.

Saw did you ever finish that?

 

[hey_monkey]

Did we ever get fran's theory?

As for Kark and Xbro, I dunno. I feel like we (well, everyone; I was not here) might have noticed something that day they were silenced, but that's also the day fepsune was lynched, so it's possible that went down because of no chat. Still, it gives me pause and I know Flush was town reading them though I'd have to go look to see why.

 

[Natiko]

I can feel it. Until Crim mentioned it, the idea of them blocking a lynch hadn't crossed my mind. The reasoning behind your post is pretty flimsy itself although I agree with the message. I didn't feel like we were trying to save Kark day #1 either.

I remember Sorian saying Sawneeks was building a case in PMs.

Saw did you ever finish that?

If anyone has a rock solid case on why someone is scum I'd love to hear it. My feeling on Crimson/Sophia are grounded in both my personal reads as well as their actual voting thus far. That's at least something compared to what has been tossed around at various other points.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Hey, dudes and dudettes. Sorry about being out - my flight got in real late last night after being delayed, and I did a buttload of unpacking and setting up today.

My replacement laptop isn't in until next week, but I have my Steambox set up, so that's just as good. Gonna read and reread a bit now. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Why would I want to claim hooker if I'm going to lie which I'm guessing is the assumption if you and Kark are trying to throw shade at me claiming with info in the thread. Literally everything is a better claim than roleblocker in a game with a confirmed virgin.

I think you're absolutely telling the truth about being a Hooker, to be clear.

It's the "town" part that's... hmm.

We shouldn't lynch Sawrian today. It's an issue that scum has no choice but to take care of for us. Their claimed PR is too powerful for scum to leave alive, and they can prove themselves by blocking scum.

If they're still alive and haven't caught scum by LYLO, then lynch them.

Sorian's claimed role is essentially a kind of limited cop in that if he picks the right target to roleblock, no kill will occur; thus, he knows he's found scum.

What stops scum!Sorian from sticking around until MYLO, scum forfeiting their kill the night prior, and then Sorian claiming that he successfully rb'd scum? What then?

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 4 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

StarSketch & AbsolutBro (4)
Natiko 3473 3523
franconp 3527
CrimsonFist 3663
Nomadic Sparks 3669
Sophia 3730

Sawneeks & Sorian (2)
CrimsonFist 3472 3663
acohrs 3654
Darryl 3670

CrimsonFist & Sophia (1)
Natiko 3676

Natiko & Nomadic Sparks (1)
nin1000 3547

rac & acohrs (1)
Sawneeks 3494

Trigger & Ty4on (1)
Sorian 3530 3689
hey_monkey 3711

Xbro & Karkador (1)
Ty4on 3752

Darryl & nin1000 (1)
Nomadic Sparks 3583 3669
Sorian 3689

No active vote for Day 4: AbsolutBro, Dr. Worm, Karkador, rac, Royal_Flush, StarSketch, Trigger, Xbro

Day 4 Postcount: AbsolutBro 2, acohrs 14, CrimsonFist 26, Darryl 14, Dr. Worm 5, franconp 18, hey_monkey 33, Karkador 2, Natiko 39, nin1000 17, Nomadic Sparks 8, rac 6, Royal_Flush 0, Sawneeks 16, Sophia 17, Sorian 28, StarSketch 4, Trigger 1, Ty4on 26, Xbro 6


Day 4 ends:

Automated vote tally here

11 votes for majority

 

[Sophia]

Sorian's claimed role is essentially a kind of limited cop in that if he picks the right target to roleblock, no kill will occur; thus, he knows he's found scum.

What stops scum!Sorian from sticking around until MYLO, scum forfeiting their kill the night prior, and then Sorian claiming that he successfully rb'd scum? What then?

How is that any different from another claim at MYLO/LYLO? Should be skeptical regardless.

 

[Sorian]

Not at all. The point stood alone. You just won't let anything go and you can't stomach anyone reading you as scummy for something you can't control. It's really irritating. These conversations aren't all happening with you as a participant. Me finding you scummy isn't a negotiation. If you're town, it would be helpful if instead of getting antagonistic over criticism, you just explained yourself. We can all work it out for ourselves. My God, you'd save everyone so much time. I would argue this out but Crim had a solid point with letting you guys stay a bit longer.

If this is a scum play it's like you guys are sadists. I swear to God it is like you're mocking me. Everything I call you and your team out for, you come back and call me out for it. It is truly bizarre and pretty amusing tbh

But I did explain what the issue was. I pointed back to show that my votes aren't there for low activity, that's just a nice extra.

I can feel it. Until Crim mentioned it, the idea of them blocking a lynch hadn't crossed my mind. The reasoning behind your post is pretty flimsy itself although I agree with the message. I didn't feel like we were trying to save Kark day #1 either.

I remember Sorian saying Sawneeks was building a case in PMs.

Saw did you ever finish that?

You mention a few people and then say PMs, I assume you mean her scum read on Sophia and Crimson? She can speak for herself but she's cooled slightly on them since last day phase since I haven't really been engaged in it. That said, she did post her theory in here at some point during the last day phase. I don't feel like finding it for you but unless I'm mixing up places in my mind, she's posted her suspicions here.

I think you're absolutely telling the truth about being a Hooker, to be clear.

It's the "town" part that's... hmm.



Sorian's claimed role is essentially a kind of limited cop in that if he picks the right target to roleblock, no kill will occur; thus, he knows he's found scum.

What stops scum!Sorian from sticking around until MYLO, scum forfeiting their kill the night prior, and then Sorian claiming that he successfully rb'd scum? What then?

The issue with this idea is that ignoring a NK pushes the mislynch count back by 1 at this point if my math is right after the other stopped kill because of the virgin so scum!Sawrian would gain no benefit because we'd get a free mislynch and still need to deal with the next day phase with everyone likely to pile on us anyway.

 

[Dr. Worm]

Nin reflects well on me since his appearance. I feel like I'm the only one Darryl is making any sense to. I like their boat, and I hope it's not scum, because it's really good if it is.

 

[Dr. Worm]

The issue with this idea is that ignoring a NK pushes the mislynch count back by 1 at this point if my math is right after the other stopped kill because of the virgin so scum!Sawrian would gain no benefit because we'd get a free mislynch and still need to deal with the next day phase with everyone likely to pile on us anyway.

Here's what I'm looking at:

Say we have two scum and eight town right now. Mislynch and NK bring it to 2/6 next phase, repeat that for 2/4. Mislynch again for 2/3. No kill submitted, claim successful RB.

If we have three scum and seven town, then mislynch + NK takes it to 3/5. Mislynch again for 3/4, no kill submitted, same situation.

I'm guessing we have no neutral, since they don't seem to have made themselves known at all.

 

[Dr. Worm]

unless scum wins with equal numbers over majority, then idk nvm

 

[Sorian]

unless scum wins with equal numbers over majority, then idk nvm

Scum wins with equal numbers, if they don't then that's just Burb wasting time because scum can't be lynched if they take up half the game unless we have a double vote floating around too.

 

[Sorian]

If you may, I'd like to see quotes and stuff showing this progression you saw.

To be completely honest, I apparently remembered way more than there actually was. What I liked was the progression during the whole WAMD/kitsune drama on day 1,

Ok, finished going over Dragonz Vs Kitsu

So essentially, Dragonz goes after Kitsu with arguments which seem to misrepresent her posting, which I agree with, I don't see the argument that Dragonz is making against Kitsu at all. Even after the clarifications, it seems like a very odd interpretation of Kitsu's no lynch post and doesn't explain why Dragonz initially said that Kitsu was backtracking after getting heat, when Kitsu had made only one post.

Kitsu on the other hand has been entirely on the defensive since joining, but all her posts have been focused on this same argument, and it feels like she's trying to drag it out and avoid commenting on anything else.

I don't think Kitsu's initial arguments are especially scummy, advocating a no lynch is a waste of time and it's never going to happen, not wanting to by lynched early is understandable for a new player who got lynched earlier in a previous game.

A few other people quoted it too, but Fran's post about how town shouldn't be playing with preservation in mind (337) stood out to me, that should only apply to night kills. Town shouldn't be acting scummy or making themselves an easy lynch target, and the context of the conversation was clearly about that.

Alright, eating now.

Feels like there's a handful of players we haven't heard much from, and that worries me because it's an easy spot for scum to hide in. Some that I've looked over:

2. [m] TheExodu5 & [m] Fireblend - The Exodu5 is apparently out for a chunk of this day phase, so I'm hoping to hear a lot once we get back. Only two posts. Fireblend is apparently out too until Wednesday, so there's only a handful of shitposts from him + some reads. I really hope these two are taking notes and making use of of their lovers chat.

5. [m] TsuXna & [m] Royal_Flush - Is TsuXna even playing? I don't see any posts from them. Royal has two posts, but they're atypical of his style (usually longer posts) and one of them is about the vote tool anyhow. Royal worries me because he's one of my personal blind spots.

9. [f] kitsunelaine & [m] flatearthpandas - kitsunelaine has been active, although a lot of posts are her defending herself from WMAD. But Crimson pointed out to me that FEP has a whopping five posts so far in game. Two of which are just random votes (on Ouro and Verleios), some commentary on Dragonz, and a reply to nin with some reads. Feels very odd that he didn't come to his partner's defense more significantly, given how frustrated kitsunelaine was getting.

14. [f] StarSketch & [m] SexyFish - ??? Basically almost no posts save for some minor commentary from Star. You two gonna chime in at all or just kick back in your love boat?

15. [-] Darryl & [m] nin1000 - Nin hasn't said much of anything save for a question on how to approach a couple in a pair game, and apparently he's going to be out. Darryl had some back and fourth with Verelios, and while I felt his posts there were solid per se, it was only two posts total.

I don't want to just put out tons of quotes to look busy so I take this sub set here. This is way early and I know that but this reads like a pair discussing behind the scenes and evolving a read together. It continues a lot like that for day 1 but I'll admit that day 2 didn't have nearly as much as I actually remembered. Crimson even drops a vote with little provocation before going afk and I call it sheeping which I forgot in the whole hustle and bustle of day end.

I'm not going to play the whole afk game but the drop in my strong gut read on them is very linked to the drop in their activity day 2. Idk, I'm still not seeing the scum angle at the end of the day. Scum jumps in that vote with some reasoning and they don't bother evolving the read day 1 once kitsune v. WAMD wraps up.

 

[Natiko]

I'm still struggling to see how their play is worth a pass but Ty's is not from your perspective. Not being snarky just feels like I'm missing something.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'm still struggling to see how their play is worth a pass but Ty's is not from your perspective. Not being snarky just feels like I'm missing something.

I can't speak for Sorian, but for me, it's a simple difference in approach. Ty sometimes is very straightforward, so nothing to really follow, and at other times layers into his posts, little things that don't really stand out but are a good way to lowkey create narrative. Loaded words. Hints of shade. Things that help develop an attitude from vapor, because they don't get challenged and then suddenly they become fact. It's a pretty common rhetorical technique in realtime/live social deception games. I'll have some examples in a bit.

Sophia and Crimson just seem like they're playing, sometimes more active than at other times. It feels honest, not calculated; to use Ty's own work, "pure," and natural. I would feel better if they were more active, but the only nagging thing seems to be that they are rarely active at the same time. That could well be calculated so they don't contradict each other, but considering they have vastly different time zones, I doubt it.

 

[Natiko]

I can't speak for Sorian, but for me, it's a simple difference in approach. Ty sometimes is very straightforward, so nothing to really follow, and at other times layers into his posts, little things that don't really stand out but are a good way to lowkey create narrative. Loaded words. Hints of shade. Things that help develop an attitude from vapor, because they don't get challenged and then suddenly they become fact. It's a pretty common rhetorical technique in realtime/live social deception games. I'll have some examples in a bit.

Sophia and Crimson just seem like they're playing, sometimes more active than at other times. It feels honest, not calculated; to use Ty's own work, "pure," and natural. I would feel better if they were more active, but the only nagging thing seems to be that they are rarely active at the same time. That could well be calculated so they don't contradict each other, but considering they have vastly different time zones, I doubt it.

I'm surprised you of all people would make this comparison in defense of Crimson/Sophia though given your earlier posts pointing out changes in behavior from certain people being potential scum tells. You'd be hard pressed to come up with too many examples of Crimson/Sophia putting in much work in this game on any day that isn't D1. Ty has at least been fairly consistent even if I've not been thoroughly impressed by his posts at times.

 

[Sorian]

I'm still struggling to see how their play is worth a pass but Ty's is not from your perspective. Not being snarky just feels like I'm missing something.

Having done a little reread, honestly I'm probably giving more credit than is due but D1 left a really good imprint on me. It's a silly gut thing at the end of the day and I'm well aware that it's been wrong (you being the actual example of this) but it's usually not and I know Crimson and Sophia well enough to at least be able to read their meta.

 

[Sorian]

And I guess I can throw in regards to Ty here, Ty hasn't done anything the whole game that I could point at and say "that's townie" nothing is really wrong either and I'm really floating him as a suspect because of Trigger more than anything.

 

[hey_monkey]

I'm surprised you of all people would make this comparison in defense of Crimson/Sophia though given your earlier posts pointing out changes in behavior from certain people being potential scum tells. You'd be hard pressed to come up with too many examples of Crimson/Sophia putting in much work in this game on any day that isn't D1. Ty has at least been fairly consistent even if I've not been thoroughly impressed by his posts at times.

You're not wrong and after I submitted that post I sat here and thought about it for a bit, like, am I giving them a pass? And if I am, why am I? I am not big on gut readings but I all but said "I feel they're town." I think Crimson has given me that impression more than Sophia but that may be because he's been more active than she since I subbed in, but I think I'll look back over them thanks to your post.

 

[Natiko]

And I guess I can throw in regards to Ty here, Ty hasn't done anything the whole game that I could point at and say "that's townie" nothing is really wrong either and I'm really floating him as a suspect because of Trigger more than anything.

I can see what you mean on Ty as well, I think where I struggle is I don't get even the gut town vibes you have on Crimson/Sophia. That being said knowing that it's more in regards to Trigger does make it make more sense to me. Honestly if not for Ty's insistence on kit I probably would still have him as one of if not the number one scum read.

Spoiler

The irrational part of me that tries to hold onto my first reads of everyone as fact has this image of kit, Ty, and Royal as a scum team with Ty having committed to always bussing teammates to try and get all the town credit. His vote today (plus me knowing this isn't reasonable or likely) quieted that part of my brain down though.

You're not wrong and after I submitted that post I sat here and thought about it for a bit, like, am I giving them a pass? And if I am, why am I? I am not big on gut readings but I all but said "I feel they're town." I think Crimson has given me that impression more than Sophia but that may be because he's been more active than she since I subbed in, but I think I'll look back over them thanks to your post.

I just feel like they've been coasting on D1 goodwill a lot. I know they've both been busy off and on, I get that, but the general drive just seems missing now.

That being said if some of us could come to even a quasi consensus on another wagon to push for it might be beneficial for increasing voting activity otherwise we might be looking at a Star lynch with just a few people on it and most everyone else either on a vote alone or not voting at all. I'm okay with a Star lynch still but when I posited that those pushing for her should make a stronger argument for why she's the best lynch today and got silence in return it didn't exactly fill me with confidence.

 

[Sophia]

In regards to Star, I actually have a bit of a bad gut feeling on her. Her vote on day 2 is against her, voting Ouro/Kk over Kitsu/FEP. She didn't have too many strong read last I checked. She had a very wishy washy read of Kitsu... who was scum. It actually didn't quite feel like fumbling town Star, rather reminded me of Star from Gods and Men. I presented this to Crimson in the love boat, and he had his own thought process for voting Star, so...

Hard to organize my thoughts on mobile. Ugh.

 

[Sorian]

Going to go to bed but I'll put this down as thoughts just so people have an idea where I am at. I'll only explain things I haven't previously said or want to add more too.

Locked town
franconp and Dr. Worm - I don't see how they can be scum. No one is throwing even the slightest bit of shade at them (except for fran's tendency to tunnel) and if memory serves, they were early on the kitsune train.

Probably town
monkey and Flush - This is 100% based on my own PR but I think town hooker makes a lot more sense when some of the town roles you can block are less than optimal. Ignoring that though, monkey is going strong on solving and Flush was no slouch either.

Natiko and Sparks - Natiko has played a great game and has dug in tonight with real questions. nin would have us examine Sparks more while ignoring half the equation but even Sparks on his own plays like someone who isn't trying to impress and with his skill level, I'd expect a scum team to have asked him to cool it a bit.

Null
Star and AB
rac and acohrs - I dropped this back to null because for the most part I liked Muffin and Sam and I still think that was a town tell at the beginning of the game but rac and acohrs haven't done much at all. Looking at it from a fresh angle, I'd call them scummy but I don't want to just ignore the people who came before.

Probably Scum
Trigger and Ty
Xbro and Kark
Darryl and nin - I know a lot probably think I'm scum reading them as an OMGUS and that is kind of playing into the real reason but I do think Darryl is purposely taking bit and pieces of my arguments to get a good negative narrative going and nin, slightly harder to read because he kind of does this all the time anyway, just feels like he is always trying to undermine people. Not actually attacking their arguments but knocking the person to make the argument hold less weight,

 

[Sorian]

Oh, I knew I forgot someone looking over that list. Crimson and Sophia go in probably town, none of it is in any type of order.

 

[Sorian]

In regards to Star, I actually have a bit of a bad gut feeling on her. Her vote on day 2 is against her, voting Ouro/Kk over Kitsu/FEP. She didn't have too many strong read last I checked. She had a very wishy washy read of Kitsu... who was scum. It actually didn't quite feel like fumbling town Star, rather reminded me of Star from Gods and Men. I presented this to Crimson in the love boat, and he had his own thought process for voting Star, so...

Hard to organize my thoughts on mobile. Ugh.

Real question. She was neutral in gods and men right? What would that have to do with being scum here? She wasn't afforded any extra info there as a neutral if I remember correctly.

 

[Sophia]

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=245844282&postcount=2471

Wishy washy read of Kitsu in question

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=245850984&postcount=2564

Weak justification for voting Ouro

 

[Sophia]

Real question. She was neutral in gods and men right? What would that have to do with being scum here? She wasn't afforded any extra info there as a neutral if I remember correctly.

She was neutral, yeah, not scum. But I felt like her play style was a bit different because she wasn't town. A gut read for sure, but I feel slightly better about it due to her votes and reads.

 

[Sophia]

Going to bed. Was hoping to hear from Star or her partner, but meh.

Will try and see day end tomorrow if I can.

 

[Natiko]

Bit of a side tangent, but I'm curious and don't feel like searching for the info when some here likely know off the top of their head:

Love Boat 1 was 11 town, 3 scum, 1 neutral pairs right? Was the neutral closer to town aligned or scum aligned? Mainly just want to know if we should at least consider the idea of 4 scum pairs at game start instead of the 3 I (and I believe most of us) have been assuming.

 

[hey_monkey]

Okay, I promised more on Tygger, so: brief recap - I started out, during my catch-up phase, noting a very particular guiding style of play from Ty4on. A little wise sage, a little conversation nudging, very experienced player (this is after early discussions on shitposting, btw; I kinda write a lot of early stuff off for everyone). Trigger, though, was a nonentity. In our chat, I noted to Flush that it felt like Ty was trying very much to appear a town leader. But once I noticed his consistent vote on kitsune, I wrote him off and said definitely town. I didn't even look back until later. But some of the Trigger/Ty interactions, such as they are, got me to look back, and since Sorian did mention, even as a sort of throwaway aside, that Ty could well be committed to bussing, and with some of the other discussions in here about bussing as part of the meta, I have become more and more convinced that it's within possibility for Ty and Trigger to be scum who bussed fepkits.

So after the above, watching Ty and Trigger's pattern of participation in the thread is what set me off. I mentioned it here and AbBro answered me in what I find one of his most significant contributions to the thread thus far, for what it's worth, saying:

Thank you for putting in words what a reread had me wondering about. It feels a little sketchy to have two players essentially posting through only one of them. I feel like it allows half a pair to basicall avoid posting and leaving actual discussion trails. Any "why didn't you X" can be met with "well, I told so and so in lover chat". Or vice versa "why didn't you" "well in lover chat I did...".

Now granted my memory is fuzzy and I think Trigger has always been rather quiet. Ty4on not so much. It's more a general observation, triggered (pun fully intended) by the post disparity between Trigger and Ty4on.

Bold is mine. Now, there's been some commentary about Trigger often being quite in the meta and Ty at one point says Trigger always plays like this, and that may be; Mafia Data has him at 6 games and 310 total posts previously. But what we see from them indicates that Trigger is not quiet in their chat:

In this one, they have apparently been talking about reads, which we didn't get from Trigger himself:

I don't like answering for Trigger, but kinda wanna when he's not around and has an answer.

Trigger was away for EoD (shock!). It actually took more than 24 hours after day end for him to pop into the boat, but while I'm not sure who he'd vote for I do know he agree with me it was weird the discussed pairs were spared. He was maybe colored by me calling the lynch really bad for clearing up nothing. For reads tho he disagrees with me regarding kitsune/FEP and finds Dragonz the scummy side of that fight. He also didn't like Dragonz low aggression near deadline. Vere himself isn't scummy to him. Overall tho he generally agrees with my town reads with CrimSoph being weaker reads.

Here they are talking about kits:

That was was I posted in the boat, then afterwards discussed it with Trigger that you looked kinda townie with your first arguments before Fat's attack. I'm not quite sure how far up you are now, but you're higher up.

I was playing around in my head with a scum team where you got paired with lower activity/weaker/scum read players and that much of the fight was desperation from you. I was bothered by not getting anything townie reading that fight.

With three hypothetical teams I wanted to push something down, but it looks like I have to choose something higher up.

Anywho
VOTE: kitsunelaine
Trigger got me to reread a bit and while kitsune came out slightly better it's not enough to make me vote for anyone else. I haven't read FEP as closely, but nothing feels like scum couldn't do it.

Kitsune seems to struggle to read people, but she didn't have much of a problem going all out attacking Dragonz. It feels forced.
He read of Worthy yesterday is maybe the best post I've seen from her, but still very observational and "easy". I can't quite see the townie behind the post trying to make sense of it if that makes sense.

This one is less and may be more of Ty's assumption:

I've liked what he has written. I don't have anything "This makes me really think they're town", but apart from Fran not being as tunnely as usual nothing has pinged me and Trigger having a town lean helped me feel confident.

But in a few other posts (here's one of them), Trigger references chat in their boat. So apparently something's happening, but we're getting a very filtered version and that feels cautious for town. Very cautious and very calculated.
I find this lack of a trail very suspicious. They've done some work at solving the game, but more and more I wonder if it's surface, and Ty avoiding my initial pushes on this subject makes it more suspicious. What would a townie have to hide here?

(and, of course, you can't "always" play by having your partner report out for you because you don't usually have a partner).

Further, I see Ty layering some things in his posts against me that I find fascinating. But I'll get to that in the next one, with vote analysis.

 

[hey_monkey]

Continued:

So I started pushing this idea last day phase and I'd asked a few times. This phase when I asked again, Ty acted oblivious:

Are you talking about me posting his read?

I figured it fitted the conversation at the time. Trigger's activity is very on/off. He'll be gone for long stretches of time and suddenly posts a fair bit in our chat. I figured - seeing her seemingly wasn't active at the point and I liked his reads last night - that I might as well post them.

And then, because apparently I answered for AbBro - when really I was continuing to try to push an argument I'd been making, we get this:

It's snarky, but I mean it. Answering for AB there made it look like you were a teammate. I'm asking AB stuff because I'm trying to read him.

So he doesn't want to lynch StarBro, but I look scummy with them for pushing Ty to finally give me an answer?

Sawneeks also noticed his evasion and asked about it. Ty reported that my posts were "long" and sure, I do write some long posts (observe!) but I can also produce plenty examples of short posts of me directly asking him what was up with this behavior. Sawneeks and I both countered, and here's Ty again, this time with my emphasis:

I don't understand what you're saying..

When did I say I didn't report out?
I didn't read your post so I didn't respond. It's faster to skim longer posts, especially when they're mostly summarizing stuff.

Two things here: again, he's acting like he just didn't see my questions about his and Trigger's approach and I 100% do not believe that. I do believe he didn't have an answer. Second, with the slippery little shade there - we often refer to summary posts as fake reads. Just summary. Just fluff. But I'm not just summarizing the game and what happened. You can't analyze without some summary and recap - that's evidence. I think Ty is trying to throw shade at me without being too obvious and to try to foster an environment in which my questions to him go ignored.

Votes are really fascinating with Tygger, too. Day 1, Ty votes xKark and kits, dropping and revoting for each once. No other votes. Final vote was on kits. Trigger, on the other hand, did not vote at all D1.

D2: Ty votes for kits early, very early, and stays there. Trigger also voted there, but late. Late as in with three minutes to go, when it was pretty clear what was happening. Only Xbro voted after Trigger on that train.
(this is also a very interesting post from Trigger, btw, and I don't mean because it might have been meant to be bust, but because of the vote motivation he references)

D3: Ty votes pretty late, for me, after he cooled on me - first he was saying I started out strong and then suddenly I had an "agenda" and that I seemed to want to widen the lynchpool. Of course, this is also the day we were all, and I mean all, after OuroKitty - and yet Ty never voted them. Ty instead voted me, essentially trying to widen the lynchpool. This was pre-claim, btw. Trigger again did not vote.

Now, on D4: as of the last count, Trigger has not voted, Ty voted for XKark. It's the only vote on them at the moment. He calls it a late vote, but it's before the middle of the day phase and he says he "dislike(s) the lack of voting trails." One would think then he might encourage his partner to vote.

tl;dr: Ty and Trigger have actually made very few moves this game and seem to have more going on in their boat than they do here. They are evasive and clearly not being open with us, so what do they have to hide?

 

[Sawneeks]

So sorry I kinda disappeared today, was busy for most of the afternoon.

I'll be here a couple of hours before Day End but until then, night. o/

 

[nin1000]

After my initial gut read and saying that everyone could be a potential scum player in my eyes I am feeling better putting my vote down on these people.

Vote: Sophia

I still have my reservations about several players, especially how hey monkey reacted the way he did only because I called sparks out.
Pathetic to say the least

 

[Ty4on]

I can't speak for Sorian, but for me, it's a simple difference in approach. Ty sometimes is very straightforward, so nothing to really follow, and at other times layers into his posts, little things that don't really stand out but are a good way to lowkey create narrative. Loaded words. Hints of shade. Things that help develop an attitude from vapor, because they don't get challenged and then suddenly they become fact. It's a pretty common rhetorical technique in realtime/live social deception games. I'll have some examples in a bit.

Sophia and Crimson just seem like they're playing, sometimes more active than at other times. It feels honest, not calculated; to use Ty's own work, "pure," and natural. I would feel better if they were more active, but the only nagging thing seems to be that they are rarely active at the same time. That could well be calculated so they don't contradict each other, but considering they have vastly different time zones, I doubt it.

• "...straightforward, so nothing to really follow"

???
Shouldn't that be easy to follow?

• "Sophia and Crimson just seem like they're playing..."

What do you mean by this? You later dislike that Tigger had said more in chat than thread when CrimSoph are very open about how much of their discussion is happening in the chat.

 

[Ty4on]

I don't wanna answer stuff if you're just putting words in my mouth.

Going "no, this is what happened" a dozen times isn't fun, it's a chore.

 

[nin1000]

I don't wanna answer stuff if you're just putting words in my mouth.

Going "no, this is what happened" a dozen times isn't fun, it's a chore.

Ty who would you likely vote out today ?

 

[Ty4on]

Ty who would you likely vote out today ?

I'm not sure, but kinda looking at XbroKark

 

[Ty4on]

I'm not sure, but kinda looking at XbroKark

Wait, if we lynch Xbro/Kark and they flip scum we'll know scum was chatblocked D2...

hmmm

 

[Trigger]

tl;dr: Ty and Trigger have actually made very few moves this game and seem to have more going on in their boat than they do here. They are evasive and clearly not being open with us, so what do they have to hide?

Indeed, what do we have to hide? Like what's the end game of your assumption here? In a lover's game it's not unusual for us to have side discussion. My presence in the thread has been spotty, so Ty just wanted to add stuff I mentioned in our chat. I'm not sure where you think this thread will lead.

To answer your earlier question, I just don't like the timing of Sawrian's claim. I just don't see the point in it. I've been very reluctant to reveal myself the past when I've played as a PR. It's more of a style thing I guess. They've provided their logic for why they're claiming.

 

[Trigger]

Vote: Xbro

I'll support my partner on this one.

 

[YesNOnoNOYes]

DAY 4 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

StarSketch & AbsolutBro (4)
Natiko 3473 3523
franconp 3527
CrimsonFist 3663
Nomadic Sparks 3669
Sophia 3730

Xbro & Karkador (2)
Ty4on 3752
Trigger 3793

Sawneeks & Sorian (2)
CrimsonFist 3472 3663
acohrs 3654
Darryl 3670

CrimsonFist & Sophia (2)
Natiko 3676
nin1000 3786

rac & acohrs (1)
Sawneeks 3494

Trigger & Ty4on (1)
Sorian 3530 3689
hey_monkey 3711

Darryl & nin1000 (1)
Nomadic Sparks 3583 3669
Sorian 3689

Natiko & Nomadic Sparks (0): nin1000 3547 3786

No active vote for Day 4: AbsolutBro, Dr. Worm, Karkador, rac, Royal_Flush, StarSketch, Xbro

Day 4 Postcount: AbsolutBro 2, acohrs 14, CrimsonFist 26, Darryl 14, Dr. Worm 8, franconp 18, hey_monkey 37, Karkador 2, Natiko 43, nin1000 19, Nomadic Sparks 8, rac 6, Royal_Flush 0, Sawneeks 17, Sophia 22, Sorian 36, StarSketch 4, Trigger 3, Ty4on 30, Xbro 6


Day 4 ends:

Automated vote tally here

11 votes for majority

 

[franconp]

Wait, if we lynch Xbro/Kark and they flip scum we'll know scum was chatblocked D2...

hmmm

What do you expect to know if the scum chat was blocked D2?

Also, to really know that you would need to flip RoyalMonkey as they could also be scum and KarkBro just lied about being silenced (unlikely as noone has claimed silenced today and having 2 shots seems logic).

 

[Ty4on]

What do you expect to know if the scum chat was blocked D2?

Also, to really know that you would need to flip RoyalMonkey as they could also be scum and KarkBro just lied about being silenced (unlikely as noone has claimed silenced today and having 2 shots seems logic).

I may be seeing too much from this, but there could be some signs someone's chat was blocked.

I don't think both are lying. Occam's razor says Xbro and Kark were blocked.

 

[franconp]

Do we even know if all the scum chat would be silenced?

Maybe just the pair targeted by the silencer would be blocked to access it but the rest of the scum team could still use it. Did RoyalMonkey said anything about this?

 

[nin1000]

Just a heads up. I am currently at work with around 4% left on my mobile and no access to a computer. Will try to find a charger in order to be around longer.

If not I am pretty ok with my current vote

 

[Royal_Flush]

I'm back but don't have a lot of time until after day end. I only read the current page so far and know from our chat that Sawrian claimed Town Hooker (which seems to be a very odd role in the setup as far as I have seen it). Anything else I need to know? I asked monkey to give me a quick summary but she didn't respond so far. I'll try to catch up but no promises.

Festival was great btw.

Do we even know if all the scum chat would be silenced?

Maybe just the pair targeted by the silencer would be blocked to access it but the rest of the scum team could still use it. Did RoyalMonkey said anything about this?

Our role PM says it's the whole Scum chat.

 

[Sorian]

Bit of a side tangent, but I'm curious and don't feel like searching for the info when some here likely know off the top of their head:

Love Boat 1 was 11 town, 3 scum, 1 neutral pairs right? Was the neutral closer to town aligned or scum aligned? Mainly just want to know if we should at least consider the idea of 4 scum pairs at game start instead of the 3 I (and I believe most of us) have been assuming.

The neutral was scum aligned, their wincon was to block 3 (2?) chats but their silence did not work on scum.

Do we even know if all the scum chat would be silenced?

Maybe just the pair targeted by the silencer would be blocked to access it but the rest of the scum team could still use it. Did RoyalMonkey said anything about this?

I had assumed that chat being blocked was be all end all so if they hit scum then the entire team couldn't post in chat but it's true that I don't think they mentioned how this would work? I could easily have missed that detail though.