Mostly spinning our wheels. Star seems to be a fan favorite at this point for essentially a policy lynch though some like Sophia and fran have tried to point out that they do find some specific things scummy.
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Love Boat 2 [Mafia] |OT| Electric Boogalove
- Thread starter Burbeting
- Start date
Mostly spinning our wheels. Star seems to be a fan favorite at this point for essentially a policy lynch though some like Sophia and fran have tried to point out that they do find some specific things scummy.
hey_monkey
Banned
I agree - Darryl's questions are my questions and they sum up my doubts about Sawrian. I'm really not sure where I am with that. I'm dedicating today to them and Sophist, because I also like what Natiko's been doing, and honestly, I feel like Nomadic Sparks has been stepping up a little so I have them flagged as probably pretty town.
And I agree with you but I also think that's all we have on Star. Here's the problem with Star and also with racohrs, a boat I was reading as scummy before, which their swap-in hasn't changed - We are back to square one tomorrow. The only difference is that tonight there's probably a night kill, unless there are other PRs in play we don't know about. We start tomorrow with only that because I don't think anyone is going to go to bat for Star beyond "it's just an activity lynch" and that may not be alignment indicative. That's where I'm torn. I really don't think we need to keep inactive, unreliable teams around for endgame. But we also need information. It's a tough call.
I'll get back to Ty in a bit.
hey_monkey
Banned
I just did, my sweetie darling, return to our boat for the flames of love (and, uh, some highlights).
Also, yep. Whole scum chat but only for the day, not the night.
Reading everything again this morning, I almost do just want to get Star flipped so we can move on from it. Sophia's posts on the matter are good and I feel like fran and Worm can be more useful but they (read as fran) aren't going to get off this topic until they see the flip.
hey_monkey
Banned
Going into the the end of day, for now, here's where I stand:
Town:
Dr. Fran - consistently working to solve the game without any suspicious or evasive behavior. fran tunnels like fran. Dr. Worm is very sharp, always looking for new angles for analysis. Two things have been raised as suspect - role fishing and fran's theory that did not manifest after multiple posts about it, unless I missed something, but these are relatively small issues to date and there's no real evidence that they are acting in scum interest.
NatikoSparks - I said this earlier but I think Natiko is really going in on trying to solve this and he is giving no real quarter. Asking questions, pushing possibilities without being overbearing or controlling the conversation. Nomadic Sparks seems to be stepping up his game but his posting style remains a null for me. Regardless, whereas in other games he's been scummy to no idea for me, here he seems to be acting in town's interest.
Ninrryl - Yesterday I don't think I'd have put them here but nin showing up has been helpful and I don't always like Darryl's contentious style but he asks good questions and he is trying to solve the game.
Probably town:
Sophist - I'm re-reading here today and while their activity has been back and forth, I do see forward motion from them. I am open to being convinced and on recommendation I'll be looking but regardless I don't think they are the vote for today.
xKark - I see there is some suspicion there but I doubt we hit and silenced all scum chat when we silenced them. I GUESS that could have explained fepsune's inability to defend themselves but that really looks more like absence and timezones than anything else. I have no other real reason to believe they are scum, but I would entertain a strong argument if presented.
Uncertain:
Sawrian - I've talked about this plenty. I do think knowing that Ouro was being blocked would have made some difference and I'm not sure I buy their reasons. They did push hard against Ouro though and my guess is that scum rolling that lynch might not have lead it so blatantly. I will look back over them, too, but I do not think this is the lynch today.
StarBro - I really hoped we would get more out of AbBro but apparently not. I've already spoken to this, as have others; if this is the big wagon today, I won't fight it (unless something new happens).
Scum:
Tygger - Ty wants to know what I think the endgame is for him if my analysis is correct and it's simple - leave no evidence behind and what evidence you do leave, let it look townie. But is it actually pro-town? I'm not the only one who can't seem to point to pro-town actions, but the evasion, the lack of a footprint, and the work to layer information into posts all seems like a calculated appearance. I won't say 100% they are scum but right now they are my biggest scum read. And yes, it's typical to chat in your boat. It's not typical to chat more in the boat than in the thread and to give brief hints at what's happening in the boat. Town has no reason to do that. Town has no reason to hide.
racohrs - after a potentially scummy showing by their predecessors, this team has done little. Now, neither are huge posters from meta knowledge, but I'd expect to see some scum hunting. It feels like they are just... doing nothing. My hesitation here is that, like Star, a flip isn't going to give us much, and that is a problem.
My assumption is that I am wrong on at least one of my townish reads. This is a tough game to crack, though, compared to the others I've played.
Town:
Dr. Fran - consistently working to solve the game without any suspicious or evasive behavior. fran tunnels like fran. Dr. Worm is very sharp, always looking for new angles for analysis. Two things have been raised as suspect - role fishing and fran's theory that did not manifest after multiple posts about it, unless I missed something, but these are relatively small issues to date and there's no real evidence that they are acting in scum interest.
NatikoSparks - I said this earlier but I think Natiko is really going in on trying to solve this and he is giving no real quarter. Asking questions, pushing possibilities without being overbearing or controlling the conversation. Nomadic Sparks seems to be stepping up his game but his posting style remains a null for me. Regardless, whereas in other games he's been scummy to no idea for me, here he seems to be acting in town's interest.
Ninrryl - Yesterday I don't think I'd have put them here but nin showing up has been helpful and I don't always like Darryl's contentious style but he asks good questions and he is trying to solve the game.
Probably town:
Sophist - I'm re-reading here today and while their activity has been back and forth, I do see forward motion from them. I am open to being convinced and on recommendation I'll be looking but regardless I don't think they are the vote for today.
xKark - I see there is some suspicion there but I doubt we hit and silenced all scum chat when we silenced them. I GUESS that could have explained fepsune's inability to defend themselves but that really looks more like absence and timezones than anything else. I have no other real reason to believe they are scum, but I would entertain a strong argument if presented.
Uncertain:
Sawrian - I've talked about this plenty. I do think knowing that Ouro was being blocked would have made some difference and I'm not sure I buy their reasons. They did push hard against Ouro though and my guess is that scum rolling that lynch might not have lead it so blatantly. I will look back over them, too, but I do not think this is the lynch today.
StarBro - I really hoped we would get more out of AbBro but apparently not. I've already spoken to this, as have others; if this is the big wagon today, I won't fight it (unless something new happens).
Scum:
Tygger - Ty wants to know what I think the endgame is for him if my analysis is correct and it's simple - leave no evidence behind and what evidence you do leave, let it look townie. But is it actually pro-town? I'm not the only one who can't seem to point to pro-town actions, but the evasion, the lack of a footprint, and the work to layer information into posts all seems like a calculated appearance. I won't say 100% they are scum but right now they are my biggest scum read. And yes, it's typical to chat in your boat. It's not typical to chat more in the boat than in the thread and to give brief hints at what's happening in the boat. Town has no reason to do that. Town has no reason to hide.
racohrs - after a potentially scummy showing by their predecessors, this team has done little. Now, neither are huge posters from meta knowledge, but I'd expect to see some scum hunting. It feels like they are just... doing nothing. My hesitation here is that, like Star, a flip isn't going to give us much, and that is a problem.
My assumption is that I am wrong on at least one of my townish reads. This is a tough game to crack, though, compared to the others I've played.
hey_monkey
Banned
AbBro disappeared. Star has popped up a few times to attempt to clarify or something, but not really.
AbsolutBro
Member
Apologies for being absent. We had some flash flooding and the barn took a hit. Spent all morning raking out the barn stall and introducing the new sheep to the older sheep. I should be around the rest of the day.
I apologize, but I've been skimming and apparently missed your questions. I am going back through, but if you bring them up again I will do my best to answer.
Seems day ends keep matching up with when I'm doing stuff for our move (yay to a new couch though!). I'll try and make sure I can check in some.
Have you gone back to look and seen any such signs?
Were the town PRs generally regarded as decently strong (especially in comparison to what we've seen here?). Maybe there's a neutral survivor or something because otherwise we may need to be cautious going forward to not miss our no lynch day phase.
They didn't have anything special from what I remember? Both town and scum had a tracker. I recall a PR did get lynched day 1 but I can't remember what it was since it died so fast.
I don't think there's much they can say in their defense anyway. I wouldn't mind more reads from them though.
To do that they'd need to have read the thread lol
hey_monkey
Banned
Also relevant:
italicized have reported invasive life events. Barn flooding sounds less than good, AbBro.
Well yeah, that too.
No, I'm too lazy for that, but a switch flipped when I remember Sophia being unable to answer if they had discussed kitsune in their chat. I didn't think of Justine and FEP being unable to chat lol...
I'll try to look over it when I get home
I always delay stuff to the very end ._.
Xbro Kark kinda fit in my poe tho. Star just didn't fit as scum and the two claims aren't awful. Sorian could be scum, but why hog Ouro?
Is it actually go time or is this daily check in and we get ghosted again?
popcorn.gif
For today's vote, I think the most logical play is that we follow the thread we started pulling at with Ouro's claim and flip. \
Why? Because that thread crosses through several players that are involved in this mystery; Fran and Sketch the letter targets, Royal the silencer, and Sorian the Silencer. Somewhere in this group, scum is found - and we are here to weed it out.
As I said earlier, Ouro essentially 'queried' two pairs when he sent them a message:
Despite his best efforts to get them to respond before his claim, neither of them did. Maybe they didn't get teh message, or maybe they did but withheld responding. So, Ouro roleclaimed, and this is the reactions that got from them:
Fran & worm:
Their reaction to the claim seems mostly confused. They aren't even sure what's being claimed at first. They assume that they maybe didn't get a PM. I'm not entirely sold on the Towniness of that last statement (trying to excuse why they're still alive and not NKed), but for the most part, I read these statements pretty genuinely, without an ulterior motive.
Sketch & Czar:
These responses didn't come until a few pages after the claim. Fran and Worm responded immediately to the claim, while they took their time. Most telling is what I bolded, which is the major difference in the reactions - Sketch is immediately trying to throw shade on Ouro for fabricating the claim.
The way I see it, maybe Sketch saw a situation where it was her word against Ouro's. Lie about not receiving the letter, and then watch him flail if he claims. Fran coming in with a second confirmation (and confirming it, quickly) threw the plan off a little. She wasn't willing to claim Fran was lying, so she went for the one detail that was vulnerable -
that Ouro was lying about being roleblocked.
Why? Because that thread crosses through several players that are involved in this mystery; Fran and Sketch the letter targets, Royal the silencer, and Sorian the Silencer. Somewhere in this group, scum is found - and we are here to weed it out.
As I said earlier, Ouro essentially 'queried' two pairs when he sent them a message:
Despite his best efforts to get them to respond before his claim, neither of them did. Maybe they didn't get teh message, or maybe they did but withheld responding. So, Ouro roleclaimed, and this is the reactions that got from them:
Fran & worm:
Their reaction to the claim seems mostly confused. They aren't even sure what's being claimed at first. They assume that they maybe didn't get a PM. I'm not entirely sold on the Towniness of that last statement (trying to excuse why they're still alive and not NKed), but for the most part, I read these statements pretty genuinely, without an ulterior motive.
Sketch & Czar:
These responses didn't come until a few pages after the claim. Fran and Worm responded immediately to the claim, while they took their time. Most telling is what I bolded, which is the major difference in the reactions - Sketch is immediately trying to throw shade on Ouro for fabricating the claim.
The way I see it, maybe Sketch saw a situation where it was her word against Ouro's. Lie about not receiving the letter, and then watch him flail if he claims. Fran coming in with a second confirmation (and confirming it, quickly) threw the plan off a little. She wasn't willing to claim Fran was lying, so she went for the one detail that was vulnerable -
that Ouro was lying about being roleblocked.
Now, there's another problem, and that's Sorian's roleblocker claim.
Straight up, I just don't believe this "Town Hooker" claim.
I don't see how a Town Hooker would block the same player twice, when the first block didn't really appear to do anything.
I don't even see how a Scum Hooker blocks the same player twice, now that we know that Ouro is exactly what he said he is. What threat would that role have been to scum? There was never anything strong about Ouro and Worm's Day phase play, and what could they have done at night that scum would have perceived as dangerous?
The two-night blocking on Ouro seems like a cover-up, and my gut is telling me that if Sorian is actually a Scum Hooker, then he's lying about one of the roleblocks in order to cover for either Fran's claim or Sketch's claim that they didn't get a letter...and I just finished reasoning which one of those two looks scummier.
Straight up, I just don't believe this "Town Hooker" claim.
I don't see how a Town Hooker would block the same player twice, when the first block didn't really appear to do anything.
I don't even see how a Scum Hooker blocks the same player twice, now that we know that Ouro is exactly what he said he is. What threat would that role have been to scum? There was never anything strong about Ouro and Worm's Day phase play, and what could they have done at night that scum would have perceived as dangerous?
The two-night blocking on Ouro seems like a cover-up, and my gut is telling me that if Sorian is actually a Scum Hooker, then he's lying about one of the roleblocks in order to cover for either Fran's claim or Sketch's claim that they didn't get a letter...and I just finished reasoning which one of those two looks scummier.
StarSketch
Banned
I was traveling a lot the last 2 days so I've been really tired, sorry. My sister is going to college in another state so we're doing as much as we can with her before she leaves.
I'm tempted to let the lynch go through since I've been pretty useless to town this entire game, but that would be unfair to AB.
Sorian being the only person defending me on count of 'this is how Star always plays' reminds me way too much of Persona, where Scum PK made it to endgame partly because he was defending me hard.
But on the other hand the tune has changed a bit so I dunno what's going on now
I'm tempted to let the lynch go through since I've been pretty useless to town this entire game, but that would be unfair to AB.
Sorian being the only person defending me on count of 'this is how Star always plays' reminds me way too much of Persona, where Scum PK made it to endgame partly because he was defending me hard.
But on the other hand the tune has changed a bit so I dunno what's going on now
StarSketch
Banned
I do think Kark is onto something here even if he's wrong about me. There's probably scum in that cluster of people, and if it's not me it narrows it down to either Sorian or Fran.
StarSketch
Banned
...if I let this go through, will you guys look at the possibility of there being a Sorneeks / Dr. Fran scum team?
How would you have played being a town hooker? Honest question.
No, for the record, I still don't expect much from your flip, I do have to concede that a lot of the game is going to be caught up on you until they see a flip, Kark included apparently.
I would. But I'm just suspicious about the claim in general.
Why not simply fight for the Lynch now?
Actually use of the word "Sorneeks" is probably the mightiest scum tell I've ever seen.
That said "if I let this go through" doesn't mean much, the choice isn't yours. You should also be trying to defend yourself regardless of alignment but that point is probably lost judging from the rest of the game state.
For Star to be lying about the letter, wouldn't that mean Sorian and Sawneeks are lying about blocking Ouro?
I don't think you are reading it correctly. He's saying I'm scum with one of those teams, not both.
AbsolutBro
Member
I'm giving up trying to get fully caught up with this game. There's no point, it's not going to happen for me. So I'm going to focus on the most recent shit and try to move on from there.
Ouro/KK and my vote: I still do not understand what made them scumread enough to lynch. They were roleblocked? They ... said some words wrong? I didn't vote on that train because it frankly made no sense. I voted Trigger because with what I could see of the game, which I admit isn't great, he was hiding. I know Trigger isn't usually a heavy poster, but this seemed odd in a game in which he could bounce ideas around a partner chat before putting them in the game thread. It creates/created a dynamic in blah blah blah I went over this. There were two pairs that stuck out, and I essentially decided between them. Natiko/Nomadic Sparks was the other pair, which I did mention yesterday.
"Why would someone role block the same person twice?" If you thought you had a scum PR, why wouldn't you do it? Even if they're not performing the NK, they may have another night action to stop. I don't see this issue with it.
what else?
Ouro/KK and my vote: I still do not understand what made them scumread enough to lynch. They were roleblocked? They ... said some words wrong? I didn't vote on that train because it frankly made no sense. I voted Trigger because with what I could see of the game, which I admit isn't great, he was hiding. I know Trigger isn't usually a heavy poster, but this seemed odd in a game in which he could bounce ideas around a partner chat before putting them in the game thread. It creates/created a dynamic in blah blah blah I went over this. There were two pairs that stuck out, and I essentially decided between them. Natiko/Nomadic Sparks was the other pair, which I did mention yesterday.
"Why would someone role block the same person twice?" If you thought you had a scum PR, why wouldn't you do it? Even if they're not performing the NK, they may have another night action to stop. I don't see this issue with it.
what else?
Ah. Sorry, reading from the middle of a Sears. It's depressing.
Which quote are you talking about? If it's the Crimson/Sophia one I gave my thoughts on them the last Day Phase and Ouro's flip kinda messed that all up so I don't know what to tell you.
I feel like I'm talking in circles
We blocked him twice because we didn't want to risk hitting the Virgin by blocking elsewhere and Fat felt we was scummy N1 and after Kit's flip on D2 we felt strongly enough that he was Scum to stick on him to stop whatever role he could have had.
AbsolutBro
Member
"why didn't star/czar/fish immediately do _____ about Ouro's claim"?
I cannot answer this, I wasn't in the game yet. All I know is that IF I'd seen the message I would have answered Ouro immediately. There is literally 0 reason not to respond to a message that does absolutely nothing else. By NOT responding, when Ouro/KK's flip is inevitably shown, all it does is make the not-responder look bad. As we see now, even with a roleblocker claiming to block the messenger, Star still gets shade for not responding to a message they never got, and then calling out the claim when they never got the message.
I cannot answer this, I wasn't in the game yet. All I know is that IF I'd seen the message I would have answered Ouro immediately. There is literally 0 reason not to respond to a message that does absolutely nothing else. By NOT responding, when Ouro/KK's flip is inevitably shown, all it does is make the not-responder look bad. As we see now, even with a roleblocker claiming to block the messenger, Star still gets shade for not responding to a message they never got, and then calling out the claim when they never got the message.
Not target the same player twice after nothing came out of it the first time? Maybe confirming that Ouro got roleblocked on the day of his trial?
hey_monkey
Banned
I would say it's possible that the scum team is just out there in plain sight, towning it up. But with what, twenty minutes to go and an awfully quiet thread, that may be a tomorrow discussion.
Hour and 20, Day End is at 12 PM PST
*1 hour and 20
hey_monkey
Banned
Trigger is absolutely hiding. The question that is unanswered is why.
That, to me, is the part of their claim that makes the most sense. A town hooker wouldn't want to make risky moves.
Sawrian, did y'all mention blocking someone last night or did you not because there was no NK? Did I miss this?
So you would have ignored the issue of the virgin then? Or are you forgetting that detail?
hey_monkey
Banned
Why can't I remember the stupid day start/end in this game/what is wrong with my brain/why god
That's more time then so by all means then, let's get the argument on.
AbsolutBro
Member
They blocked Kark/xBro I think