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[SolidusDave]

How did everyone rate the GITS: SAC edit movies? I'm looking at renting The Laughing Man to see how it flows as a film rather than a series.

IMO they don't work well at all. Only watched the first one but if you don't know the lore you will be completely lost and if you know the series you will think it's odd how they cut all the existing footage until it's the length of a movie. One of the advantages of the series is the slow pace and going into details, giving an almost depressive calm look on the word.

(the SAC movie SSS is ok though, as it was produced to be a movie and doesn't have that strange flow)



...give me 3rd Gig already!!111

 

[Despera]

How did everyone rate the GITS: SAC edit movies? I'm looking at renting The Laughing Man to see how it flows as a film rather than a series.

I don't think they worked well. If I remember correctly, they felt like a rushed edit.

I'm actually halfway through 2nd GIG right now. The first season was very good, but flawed. The 2nd one seems to be more of the same.

I too was disappointed by the sudden change of tone between the series and the first movie. Most noticeable for me was, like you mentioned, Motoko's character. Still, it's one of my favourite shows, and GiTS is one of the reasons Cyberpunk became my favourite genre.

Excellent job with that write-up by the way.

 

[Tacitus_]

It's not necessarily this though -- the Oshii movies exist as something to directly compare to, making criticism easier than ever!

It's really not fair to compare to the first movie at all, since it's mostly lifted straight from the manga :|

 

[Risette]

It's really not fair to compare to the first movie at all, since it's mostly lifted straight from the manga :|

Yeah except for all the stuff that actually matters.

Shirow Masamune is horrible.

 

[Tacitus_]

Yeah except for all the stuff that actually matters.

You'll have to expand on that.

Shirow Masamune is horrible.

:|

 

[Risette]

You'll have to expand on that.

The only thing the movie takes from the manga is the basic plot, which is not of any importance. The manga has none of the stuff that people love the movie for, such as the themes, mood, tone, and iconic visual design.

 

[Funky Papa]

Shirow Masamune is horrible.

 

[Tacitus_]

The only thing the movie takes from the manga is the basic plot, which is not of any importance. The manga has none of the stuff that people love the movie for, such as the themes, mood, tone, and iconic visual design.

Yes. Cleeaaaaarly it takes none of that.

I mean, just look at the differences!

 

[Sallokin]

Nice OP!

Suairyu, I think you'll enjoy 2nd GIG a lot, but you'll find it has similar issues to the first season. For me, the core 2nd GIG story is a little more interesting and the stand alone episodes are miles better than the first season. I'd really be curious as to your thoughts on Solid State Society when you get around to it.

As a pretty big fan of GitS, I have to say that my love for the SAC series has diminished as I've gotten older, and my love for the Oshii movies has only increased. In my opinion, the one thing that is consistently good across both the series and films are the soundtracks.

I really wish there were some new GITS related projects to look forward to =(

 

[Suairyu]

Yes. Cleeaaaaarly it takes none of that.

I mean, just look at the differences!

To be fair, there are a lot of stylistic differences there.

Whether or not to the extent that its fair to say Oshii created the 'iconic' look is another matter.

I really wish there were some new GITS related projects to look forward to =(

I'd love Oshii to revisit the world one more time, but I'm not entirely sure what I'd want from it. Part of why Innocence worked so well because it wasn't really a sequel to the first one. As much as I'd like some form of conclusion to the Major's storyline, I'm not actually sure I'd want the film that dealt with that, if that makes sense?

 

[Risette]

To be fair, there are a lot of stylistic differences there.

Whether or not to the extent that its fair to say Oshii created the 'iconic' look is another matter.

Hey, I never said this. The artists working for Oshii did that!

They turned slop into diamonds.

 

[Suairyu]

pizza, you're a very intelligent person but you take a very antagonistic approach, to the point of exaggerating your statements that they mean something else and your point is somewhat blurred. It's not that conducive to discussion.

 

[Jex]

Yeah except for all the stuff that actually matters.

Shirow Masamune is horrible.

Hey, those horsemen milking girls wont draw themselves.

 

[FStop7]

SAC starts off kinda weak IMO but then when The Laughing Man arc begins it gets pretty damn awesome. There were a couple of genuine "oh shit did that just happen" moments.

2nd GIG I think was more consistent and maybe a bit better overall. I like the fact the main story arc got underway immediately.

But I think my favorite SAC anime is Solid State Society. I guess it takes place in a post-Laughing Man and post-2nd GIG time when the Major has left Section 9 and things have kind of taken a turn for the worse for the team.


GITS in its various forms is pretty much the only anime I like. I wish there were more of it.

 

[Tacitus_]

To be fair, there are a lot of stylistic differences there.

Whether or not to the extent that its fair to say Oshii created the 'iconic' look is another matter.

Stylistic differences maybe, but it's absolute bullshit to claim that Oshii (or his artists) created the look when pretty much every design is lifted from the manga.

I'd love Oshii to revisit the world one more time, but I'm not entirely sure what I'd want from it. Part of why Innocence worked so well because it wasn't really a sequel to the first one. As much as I'd like some form of conclusion to the Major's storyline, I'm not actually sure I'd want the film that dealt with that, if that makes sense?

I'd suggest reading GitS: Man-machine Interface. Other than Masamune running wild with photoshop filters, it's great.

 

[Risette]

pizza, you're a very intelligent person but you take a very antagonistic approach, to the point of exaggerating your statements that they mean something else and your point is somewhat blurred. It's not that conducive to discussion.

I know what I do. It's an easier way of expressing things and making my points. Whether my point is blurred is up to the reader to determine. I think it's fine and I'm not changing it.

The manga is aesthetically horrible, as is any Masamune work. The fact that the artists and designers working for Oshii to adapt those things into the movie managed to make something as beautiful as they did is nothing short of mindblowing. Given the quality of the art in the manga, I don't think it's fair to call the manga the originator of anything in the movie visually, even if some of it is similar. Even in that comparison that Tacitus posted, the manga lacks what makes the movie so visually striking in that moment, just look at the character design of the Puppetmaster.

 

[Dina]

Some stuff I disagree with, but it's been years since I saw this series so excuse me for not going into it in very thorough detail.

First I didn't hate the tachikoma's as much. Sure, they don't hold a candle to the fuckikoma's in the manga, but there's funny, quirky, unique and engaging characters in their own right, even if they can be categorized as one character per se since there isn't much differences in personality here (besides that one character where Batou's breaks away because he's been giving her natural oil).

Second I didn't hate the SA episodes as much as you did. There are some stinkers, such as Chat! Chat! Chat!, but they are far and inbetween.

That said, this anime is among the best ever being produced. I rate it slightly below Cowboy Bebop overall because of slightly less awesome consistency, but besides that it is an amazing series that deserves to be seen by everyone, even the anime haters.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

The movie takes what's worth taking from the manga (and improves upon it immeasurably) and excises what isn't, i.e.

Spoiler

lesbian threesome

.

But your tag!

 

[Tacitus_]

Even in that comparison that Tacitus posted, the manga lacks what makes the movie so visually striking in that moment, just look at the character design of the Puppetmaster.

Explain. I'm not seeing a difference.

The movie takes what's worth taking from the manga (and improves upon it immeasurably) and excises what isn't, i.e.

Spoiler

lesbian threesome

.

Heh, supposedly Masamune wanted a sex scene but he didn't want to draw a mans ass. There's a few paragraphs in the appendix why e-brain sex only works if the participants are of the same sex (basically, how would you feel if someone tried to stimulate an organ you didn't have) and how Motoko is especially awesome at e-sex because of her advanced cybernetics.

 

[Messofanego]

If anyone's playing Syndicate, there is a sniper rifle named after Kusanagi.

I like 2nd GIG so much more.

Unless if my memory is awful, it's the season with the noir feel of a blue collar worker becoming into a terrorist assassin, right? It was a great contrast, I always liked the more downbeat, mundane episodes. And that they finally had Major be fully clothed instead of that distracting fanservice outfit?

Yup, NIGHT CRUISE. This was what got me into Taxi Driver.

I have a Laughing Man shirt I got from an anime con

 

[Jex]

[...]As a pretty big fan of GitS, I have to say that my love for the SAC series has diminished as I've gotten older, and my love for the Oshii movies has only increased. In my opinion, the one thing that is consistently good across both the series and films are the soundtracks.

That's not an uncommon opinion. However I've always been a big fan of the movie and the TV series, just for different reasons, so such a shift in my opinions never happened.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

The Tachikoma are all voiced by one actress in the Japanese dub while the English dub each personality has its own voice actress. Maybe it was a decision the dub team made to make them have more character...

Just to throw a random thing out there. I remember this is the anime that had an amazing fansub translation containing the phrase "mass naked child events" (than fansub also had some other 'great' things too).

Yup, NIGHT CRUISE. This was what got me into Taxi Driver.
http://thi.uloz.to/2/9/6/29680e72807d619c2b81f813b427ecd7.640x360.0.jpg

Second episode in too. Rather different to the rest of the series. In the extras they pointed out how the art style was different to the rest of the series (as in buildings you see etc), they also mentioned Taxi Driver.

 

[El Sloth]

Tachikomas > ducks

 

[Suairyu]

Tachikomas > ducks

Okay that's it. Take off your shirt and get outisde right now we are going to throw down.

 

[Lafiel]

A true visionary.

I wonder if Masamune was personally responsible for the shameless fan-service that was found in one of his adaptations Real Drive

 

[El Sloth]

Okay that's it. Take off your shirt and get outisde right now we are going to throw down.

I was never wearing a shirt to begin with.

A Tachikoma would have known that.

 

[Suairyu]

Ducks don't sound like annoying loli nurse hentai characters so ducks win.

 

[El Sloth]

Ducks are also in a evolutionary arms race with their genitals because of generations of rape.

Tachikomas have gattling guns.

Advantage: Tachikomas

And I've only ever watched the dub so your complaint of loli voices falls on deaf ears.

 

[Jex]

The Tachikoma are all voiced by one actress in the Japanese dub while the English dub each personality has its own voice actress. Maybe it was a decision the dub team made to make them have more character...

But like, the point of the Tachikoma's is that they all start off as literally the same but over time that changes, so I do believe having them all come from a single voice actress makes sense.

There's a time & a place.
I was going to mention that there's probably a little TOO much basset hound in Innocence to the degree that it's sort of distracting (one of the few nits I'd pick) but it didn't seem relevant enough in a thread about SAC.

Blasphemy.

 

[Funky Papa]

I wonder if Masamune was personally responsible for the shameless fan-service that was found in one of his adaptations Real Drive

Man Machine Interface was *this close* to full blown softcore porn. Shirow needs to get laid. Desperately.

 

[Tacitus_]

I wonder if Masamune was personally responsible for the shameless fan-service that was found in one of his adaptations Real Drive

Wouldn't surprise me. Motoko is pretty much ms. fanservice and cyberspace dives usually involve skintight 'suits' with lots of... "lucky" angles.

 

[Suairyu]

Tachikomas have gattling guns.

Advantage: Tachikomas

Grenade launcher > gattling gun

 

[El Sloth]

Brushing aside the rape, eh?

Typical fowl.

 

[heliosRAzi]

That final scene after the tank battle is like 2 minutes long and half a dozen lines of dialogue. That really killed the movie for ya, huh?

It is more than 2 minutes long. Which I don't even mind. And if it killed the movie for me, I wouldn't have gotten it on DVD and BR.

Regarding to the "deepness" of the films versus the series, I would say that they are on par with each other.The films are about existentialism. What makes us human and not these machines? If we turn ourselves into cyborgs, are we still truly human? What is life? What is real? These are valid questions to be asked, especially if the world goes down the path of cyberization.

The series delve into the sociological impact of a connected society. The stand alone complex phenomena that pops up is eerily similar to Anonymous.We see this world that is almost constantly connected to the net. People are seemingly hacked in this series, but they really aren't. They are basically reciting and spreading memes. I'm posting here and I have an Individual Eleven avatar and I saw the Laughing Man logo as well.

Both are great and I feel that they compliment each other. One is slow and methodical and helped introduce a lot of us into anime. The other is more fast paced and builds an interesting world. Arguing about which is better is like arguing about which season of the Wire is better. So lets end this tired debate.

 

[Jintor]

One of the best police procedurals I've ever seen.

Chatroom episode is my favourite.

 

[Tacitus_]

Man Machine Interface was *this close* to full blown softcore porn. Shirow needs to get laid. Desperately.

 

[Risette]

It is more than 2 minutes long. Which I don't even mind. And if it killed the movie for me, I wouldn't have gotten it on DVD and BR.

But did you import the original real version of the movie on BD from Japan? There's the real test...

 

[Jintor]

Man Machine Interface was *this close* to full blown softcore porn. Shirow needs to get laid. Desperately.

He was a doujin artist right?

 

[Risette]

He was a doujin artist right?

Not sure, but his career is based around drawing oily girls and/or bestiality hentai nowadays, iirc.

 

[AzureNightmare]

Shirow Masamune is horrible.

 

[Suairyu]

The entire state of GITS on blu ray is a farce. Unfortunately, it probably always will be. Those effects weren't rendered in HD, which for a film just seems unbelievable to me. Even the Japanese blu ray release doesn't look so hot.

It does, however, preserve all the lovely grain. Man I love film grain. It's my fetish.

 

[Risette]

The entire state of GITS on blu ray is a farce. Unfortunately, it probably always will be. Those effects weren't rendered in HD, which for a film just seems unbelievable to me.

Only the cyberbrain/computer stuff is rendered in SD (as per Oshii's orders, and similar to the way computer interface stuff was done in the Patlabors -- I think he likes the way it looks.) The rest of the movie is HD.

Even the Japanese blu ray release doesn't look so hot.

Yes it does. Keep in mind that it's never going to look pristine -- it was not shot on film. It was entirely digitally composited on computers (probably at 2K or 1920x) and then optically printed to 35mm film for storage resulting in the extremely grainy and gritty look. I think it's fitting that a movie like GITS was done like this, it's almost meta in a way.

 

[Sallokin]

That's not an uncommon opinion. However I've always been a big fan of the movie and the TV series, just for different reasons, so such a shift in my opinions never happened.

Definitely a valid argument. I still love SAC. It has some truly great moments and a lot of genuinely interesting character interactions/development. For some reason the movies have just begun to click with me more whenever I rewatch them.

 

[Suairyu]

Only the cyberbrain/computer stuff is rendered in SD (as per Oshii's orders, and similar to the way computer interface stuff was done in the Patlabors -- I think he likes the way it looks.) The rest of the movie is HD.

You suuuuure? Because it certainly doesn't look like HD/4K-mastered renders. I'm not talking about the OS stuff because that's obviously meant to look pixely.

Maybe the film just needs a proper re-master from the negative. I was disappointed with the Japanese blu ray release. It was an improvement over previous DVD versions, obviously, but it could have looked much better.

 

[Risette]

You suuuuure? Because it certainly doesn't look like HD/4K-mastered renders. I'm not talking about the OS stuff because that's obviously meant to look pixely.

Maybe the film just needs a proper re-master from the negative. I was disappointed with the Japanese blu ray release. It was an improvement over previous DVD versions, obviously, but it could have looked much better.

Read my edit. There is no negative and there never was one.

I have the BD.

 

[Suairyu]

Read my edit. There is no negative and never was.

I have the BD.

Disappointing, I must say.

 

[Risette]

Disappointing, I must say.

Nah, I think the way it looks is great. Even Innocence which was done with modern digital methods had tons of digital noise added to it after the fact for artistic reasons. I think Oshii came to like that look.

 

[Suairyu]

Nah, I think the way it looks is great. Even Innocence which was done with modern digital methods had tons of digital noise added to it after the fact for artistic reasons. I think Oshii came to like that look.

It's just you can retain a "noisy" look to the image but still have greater clarity. If you look at things like the blu ray restoration of The Godfather, itself a deliberately soft-focused, noisy film it still benefits from the greater resolution.

Artistically I genuinely see his reasons and I do enjoy the aesthetic, I just wish he'd done it in a way that was more "future proof".

Innocence absolutely shines on blu ray, despite the artificial noise.

2K resolution was such this weird period in film. I honestly wish every director who ever used it had just waited for 4K to become viable, as I can point at 2K and objectively call 35mm superior. With 4K, it becomes pure opinion.

 

[Risette]

It's just you can retain a "noisy" look to the image but still have greater clarity. If you look at things like the blu ray restoration of The Godfather, itself a deliberately soft-focused, noisy film it still benefits from the greater resolution.

Artistically I genuinely see his reasons and I do enjoy the aesthetic, I just wish he'd done it in a way that was more "future proof".

Well a lot of stuff that they did with the animation was impossible with the traditional camera method. It wasn't just to make it look grainy.

 

[Suairyu]

Well a lot of stuff that they did with the animation was impossible with the traditional camera method. It wasn't just to make it look grainy.

Yes, but it could have been done at a higher resolution than 2K. Entirely digital animation at 4K is as old as Toy Story. It's only live-action digital film that had a reason for going through the 2K stage - that being that the camera technology wasn't developed enough yet for 4K.