LTTP: Rogue One

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I think that would be helpful instead of saying, "great movie but CGI faces weren't good... still great though".

Like, I'm not sure what you expected; you dropped the great bomb and you thought that no one would ask why you believe it's great?

I'm not a movie critic and, to be quite honest, I'm not one to give lengthy opinions about most things I experience.

If you must know, I liked the movie for what it was: a Hollywood sci-fi action movie full of CGI and shallow writing. Obviously I knew going in I wasn't going to be treated to an Oscar worthy timeless classic like some of the movies you mentioned before but still something a cut or two above a movie from Michael Bay or Zack Snyder.
 
When Rogue One first came out, I thought it was an okay movie; better than the prequels but doesn't hold a candle to the original trilogy, or even the Force Awakens.

It seems though, that the more I think about it, the more I despise the film, and now, I absolutely hate it. It's honestly about as bad as the prequels. The plot is a mess, with the first and second acts accomplishing nothing and being practically the same story-wise (Jyn goes to a planet to get information from her father figure, but before she can get everything she needs, a disaster from above ends up killing said father figure, and the plot goes on for even more). The characters are boring, with almost none of them being memorable (Again, I didn't like TFA, but I at least remembered that the main characters were Rey, Finn, and Poe, and even knew the names of side characters like Maz Kanata. I didn't know the names of Donnie Yen's character or his friend after I watched the film).

The film was so stuffed with fanservice whatever interesting elements and characters it has end up being overshadowed by callbacks to A New Hope. I was looking forward to Ben Mendelsohn as Krennic, and I thought he was the highlight of the previews. However, because the film sees the need to stuff in both Darth Vader and CGI Grand Moff Tarkin (cause it's what the fans want to see, instead of what the movie actually needs), that he comes off as barely memorable because, although he's the villain, he has to share his time with two other villains, making things crowded and taking away time which could have been used to polish his character (I really liked him in his first scene, before the appearance of Tarkin started crowding things, and he should have been the singular focus of the villains' side).

The action is well shot, but because I wasn't invested at all in the characters, it really did nothing for me. It attempts to manipulate you into feeling emotions. Now, you can say that all films do that, but that's not really true. The difference is that other films, like the original trilogy, actually put in effort to get you invested in the characters and their relationships. They get you to understand the leads and how they care about each other. Rogue One doesn't bother with that, instead choosing to try and manipulate the viewer with grand gestures that are ultimately empty, because who needs good, interesting characters when you can put in a scene where Darth Vader kills people that clashes with the tone of the scene before that will surely have the audience clapping because it's DARTH VADER!!! AND HE'S USING THE FORCE!!!

Rogue One is like a sociopath when it comes to emotions. It understands the concept and knows how to follow techniques good movies use to make their audience feel emotions, but it doesn't understand what makes those techniques actually work, because it doesn't want to put in the effort. It takes something which should be sad (like Galen's death) and has sad music playing and characters crying, but doesn't understand that you need to put in work to build those characters' relationships in order to make to feel invested in what happens, and by extension, feel the loss the characters do. We barely see Jyn and Galen interact, same with Jyn and Saw as well, and yet the film expects us to feel sad when they die, even though they never put in the effort to show what the characters mean to each other, instead choosing to tell the audience (... wait a minute. Characters explaining their relationships, instead of the film showing us... that's seems familiar.) It's a bad script and a bad movie, and I honestly don't know if I'd put above the prequels on my Star Wars ranking, and if I did put it higher, it would barely be above Revenge of the Sith).
 
Way better than TFA. TFA had great characters and terrible storytelling. Nothing carries any weight.

Rogue One has its heart in the right place, and isn't scared of having politics or (oh no!) prequel lore.
 
Idk how many of you saw it more than once, but as I said before the CGI didn't even bother me on the 2nd watch.

Leia in particular is on screen for 5 secs as it is.

There are other issues I can see many could have with this movie, but I don't think people should fixate on the CGI. Not as if Tark in on screen all the fucking time either.
 
You've been thinking a lot on it, huh.



Of course it is.



Wha

I recently rewatched the original trilogy with my girlfriend who hadn't seen the films before. After being left cold by TFA and RO, being swept up in the magic of the original films got me thinking about why the new ones didn't feel as well made and satisfying to me as ANH, ESB, and ROTJ do. Also, I'm a writer, so I like thinking about plots and characters, and figuring out what makes a good character work so I could use that knowledge to improve my stories.

Also, read the rest of the comment. I thought I explained what I meant by calling it a sociopath well. Rogue One understands what emotions look like. It understands that having all the main characters die at the end of the movie is supposed to be sad. The problem is, because it barely bothers to build up those characters, it comes across as hollow and fake, like it's putting on a show to manipulate you instead of making you emphasize with the characters.
 
Way better than TFA. TFA had great characters and terrible storytelling. Nothing carries any weight.

Rogue One has its heart in the right place, and isn't scared of having politics or (oh no!) prequel lore.

Really disagree with you on that, both have pros and cons but TFA is leaps ahead for being an continuation of the story with interesting characters. R1 is good but thats it

TFA has a story that will continue and for that alone its over R1 for me, plus the characters are more interesting to me.

There were politics in R1? I missed it, unless it was the obvious fascist space empire is bad

Also how flaccid was that force choke on evil guy whos name I forget, really lame Vader is a bad looking dude he should just be able to stand there or maybe take a step closer to scare people, no need for the forced reference, the first choke was a display of power for everyone in the room in R1 it was a display for the audience and was dumb.

He even does it at the end when it makes more sense why did they force it into the first scene
 
Render was fine. Tarkin's issue was that he was overly emotive, I think they tried to avoid him looking robotic and over-corrected. Leia on the other hand was kind of stiff.
The thing is, if you watch Peter Cushing in A New Hope, he's overly emotive too. Like it surprised me just how over-the-top he is.
 
Really disagree with you on that, both have pros and cons but TFA is leaps ahead for being an continuation of the story with interesting characters. R1 is good but thats it

TFA has a story that will continue and for that alone its over R1 for me, plus the characters are more interesting to me.

There were politics in R1? I missed it, unless it was the obvious fascist space empire is bad

TFA had the worst world building I have seen in any science fiction movie. Where the hell was the New Republic during all this? Can't have that, politics are bad and associated with the prequels. Let's just blow up five of their worlds instead. Who was on those worlds? Do we know anyone? Nah, there's no emotional attachment whatsoever.

Let's just make a new Empire and have the Republic be on the outs again because reasons.

TFA was lazy, plain and simple.


I'm hoping TLJ will improve on what it started, but I'm not optimistic. TFA was all style and no substance. R1 had both.
 
The characterization is not as strong as TFA, no. But it's not bad either. It's just thinner. That's partially due to the kind of movie it is (Men on a Mission films are by nature more plot-focused than character-focused, the characterizations coming through in the ways they do things, as they're doing them) and partially because—even though this is by far the one Gareth Edwards film that contains honest-to-god acting in it—it's still a Gareth Edwards film and people are going to end up stranded to some degree.

But the film isn't trying to build character relationships the same way Abrams and Kasdan are. The relationships are intended to come through via flourishes and moments in the course of keeping that plot moving forward. Some aspects of this are done better than others, but while I agree that Mendelssohn loses steam quickly and basically becomes not much more than a walking plot point by the 2/3rds mark, I'm not sure that removing Vader and Tarkin entirely would have necessarily helped, either. Like, if you're spending your time waiting for the movie to show you big fat grand gestures as a means to give you an in to the character's workings, you're not gonna get that here. The movie doesn't really have time for that, and it's not really built to have that time. It picks up those ins to the characters while on the run. It's not 100% successful at it, but it manages way more often than it doesn't. (Giacchino going full on LOST mode at key moments also helps)

It's not as easy as plugging/unplugging lego pieces from a well-planned construction—which this film was not, as everyone knows. Which makes its overall coherence as a narrative all the more impressive, honestly. Granted, saying the plot is coherent is some pretty faint praise. But the movie does hold together. And part of that reason is the characterization, and most of that characterization is due to the actors pouring life into what might look, on the page, to be a collection of ciphers.

I certainly wouldn't use the term "sociopathic" to describe the emotional content.

Also, read the rest of the comment.

I did.
 
I can't get over how much I enjoyed this over The Force Awakens, all the hype and love I was prepared for TFA ended up in a one off side story with Rogue One instead.
 
A disappointment for me was Vader when we first see him. How bad was the voice, was it one take or what. I know James is really old but it was terribly spoken like he needed to do another take but never did. The suit did indeed look off unfortunately. The end though, that was awesome.

It was fine. JEJ is really old so i'm glad he could still voice him. The one thing that bothered me was that he spoke "Director" in two different ways in the same scene.
 
I feel like Rogue One was very hamstrung by the fact that it led directly into Star Wars. It was a little tedious watching the plot clank its way towards that iconic opening shot, while still managing to get a Darth Vader action scene into the film.
 
The characterization is not as strong as TFA, no. But it's not bad either. It's just thinner. That's partially due to the kind of movie it is

I'm also guilty of directly comparing it to TFA which is pretty unfair given the fact that EP7 is the first of three films and that R1 has to stand all on its own and its characters are much more of a backdrop in regard to what's going on in the film and its significance to the saga.

It could have been executed better (R1) and it does feel kinda thin, but it's pretty damn good considering the way production went and the fact that Edwards has made some films with paper thin characters. It was always a huge concern but the end product ended up better than I thought it would.
 
The hyperbole when it comes to SW is crazy lol. Can't wait to watch it again really enjoyed it, especially the last part. I liked it as much as TFA but for different reasons.
 
TFA had the worst world building I have seen in any science fiction movie. Where the hell was the New Republic during all this? Can't have that, politics are bad and associated with the prequels. Let's just blow up five of their worlds instead. Who was on those worlds? Do we know anyone? Nah, there's no emotional attachment whatsoever.

Let's just make a new Empire and have the Republic be on the outs again because reasons.

TFA was lazy, plain and simple.


I'm hoping TLJ will improve on what it started, but I'm not optimistic. TFA was all style and no substance. R1 had both.

True about the world building, but again I care a hell of a lot more about Rey and Finn then anyone or thing in R1

It is all subjective tho, I said I disagree with you not that you are wrong, also holy shit did I forget about that new republic shit so fast, I cared so little I forgot how stupid it was.

Why are they still rebels!? it should be the last of the empire vs the new Republic, not the New government on that one planet that gets blown up, the rebels who are drastically smaller for some reason despite that the empire is still kicking, and the empire.
 
True about the world building, but again I care a hell of a lot more about Rey and Finn then anyone or thing in R1

It is all subjective tho, I said I disagree with you not that you are wrong, also holy shit did I forget about that new republic shit so fast, I cared so little I forgot how stupid it was.

Why are they still rebels!? it should be the last of the empire vs the new Republic, not the New government on that one planet that gets blown up, the rebels who are drastically smaller for some reason despite that the empire is still kicking, and the empire.

That's the one thing the EU did right. It showed that being the ones in charge and the Imperials having the benefit of using guerilla warfare is by no means an easy scenario.

The characters in R1 are thin, but I liked the world. Everything was fleshed out, and I can forgive that for the characters being expendable. (Because, well, they literally are.)


Rey and Finn deserved a better film, or better yet, one without the burden of being linked to the original trilogy. It would've been better as a stand alone film.
 
I didn't like it more than TFA but it's close.

My current SW movie ranking from most to least favorite is as follows: Empire - New Hope - Jedi - TFA - Rogue One - Revenge - Phantom Menace/Clones (equally hate both).
 
That's the one thing the EU did right. It showed that being the ones in charge and the Imperials having the benefit of using guerilla warfare is by no means an easy scenario.

The characters in R1 are thin, but I liked the world. Everything was fleshed out, and I can forgive that for the characters being expendable. (Because, well, they literally are.)


Rey and Finn deserved a better film, or better yet, one without the burden of being linked to the original trilogy. It would've been better as a stand alone film.

I tried to get into the EU before TFA came out, got any recommendations form the old EU?

I bet Rey and Finn will get their time in the next two films.
 
I tried to get into the EU before TFA came out, got any recommendations form the old EU?

The Heir to the Empire trilogy(the Thrawn books), Truce at Bakura, the Jedi Academy Trilogy, and Rogue Squadron are all fantastic.

It really starts getting dicey later on in the timeline.
 
I thought it was a very bland movie with completely forgettable characters. I never cared about anyone. It really didn't justify its existence in Star Wars canon. Even visually it did nothing for me, it's a far cry from Edwards' Godzilla in this regard.

CGI characters were absolutely awful, I was not prepared for that. Hollywood is gonna have to stop with completely digital heads for a while until they get it right. Didn't buy Tarkin for a second.
 
I'm really upset they didn't take the opportunity to bring back Ian McDiarmid as the Emperor.

Now that opportunity will likely never come up again.
 
I thought it was a very bland movie with completely forgettable characters. I never cared about anyone. It really didn't justify its existence in Star Wars canon. Even visually it did nothing for me, it's a far cry from Edwards' Godzilla in this regard.

CGI characters were absolutely awful, I was not prepared for that. Hollywood is gonna have to stop with completely digital heads for a while until they get it right. Didn't buy Tarkin for a second.

I miss your old tag.
 
I liked it because it fleshed out the Star Wars universe. It wasn't focused on the the main characters we have all come to known. It wasn't going to be a shocker as to what happened in the movie. It was like watching Titanic; you know it's going to sink. I thought it was interesting that the whole opening crawl of A New Hope was basically word of word of the movie. It reminded me how someone could take a basic children's book (Where the Wild Things Are) that was similar in length and make a 90 minute film out of it.

I didn't think the CGI was as bad as some make it out to be. It's not perfect but it did get me to think if it was real or not at first because I didn't expect it at all. Character development was thin, which is crucial for the type of movie this is because there will be no chance to revisit these characters in the future (only their pasts). K-2SO was ultimately the only character I grew an attachment to. The final moments of the movie made it all so much more sweeter and rewarding, I just wished it was fleshed out a little longer.

Overall, probably my third favorite in the saga, behind Empire Strikes Back and A New Hope.
 
It was a mistake to make a young Han Solo film before a young Vader film.

We already got one of those, remember.

latest


I miss your old tag.

pete-shrug.gif
 
(Giacchino going full on LOST mode at key moments also helps)

Went into it without knowing Giacchino scored it, and was racking my brain wondering why the music that kicks in when the Star Destoryer crashes into the shield sounded so familiar. It was also the best musical cue in the film I feel.
 
I thought that the movie was pretty good and so much better than The Force Awakens. I just wish Chirrut had a duel with Vader and bested him in a pure saber fight, removing his mechanical arm, after which Vader would force choke and force crush his larynx. I hate the perceived invincibility Vader is portrayed with having.
 
I thought Rogue One was a very, very average movie with some excellent action framing. That's about all I've got to say about it.
 
The characterization is not as strong as TFA, no. But it's not bad either. It's just thinner. That's partially due to the kind of movie it is (Men on a Mission films are by nature more plot-focused than character-focused, the characterizations coming through in the ways they do things, as they're doing them) and partially because—even though this is by far the one Gareth Edwards film that contains honest-to-god acting in it—it's still a Gareth Edwards film and people are going to end up stranded to some degree.

But the film isn't trying to build character relationships the same way Abrams and Kasdan are. The relationships are intended to come through via flourishes and moments in the course of keeping that plot moving forward. Some aspects of this are done better than others, but while I agree that Mendelssohn loses steam quickly and basically becomes not much more than a walking plot point by the 2/3rds mark, I'm not sure that removing Vader and Tarkin entirely would have necessarily helped, either. Like, if you're spending your time waiting for the movie to show you big fat grand gestures as a means to give you an in to the character's workings, you're not gonna get that here. The movie doesn't really have time for that, and it's not really built to have that time. It picks up those ins to the characters while on the run. It's not 100% successful at it, but it manages way more often than it doesn't. (Giacchino going full on LOST mode at key moments also helps)

It's not as easy as plugging/unplugging lego pieces from a well-planned construction—which this film was not, as everyone knows. Which makes its overall coherence as a narrative all the more impressive, honestly. Granted, saying the plot is coherent is some pretty faint praise. But the movie does hold together. And part of that reason is the characterization, and most of that characterization is due to the actors pouring life into what might look, on the page, to be a collection of ciphers.

I certainly wouldn't use the term "sociopathic" to describe the emotional content.

The problem with the film and its characterization is that due to the premise, it couldn't have thin characters. The way I see it, a story has to have something to get you invested it in. One way to do through the plot, by keeping the viewer on the edge of their seat the whole time. Men-on-a-Mission films for the most part engage the viewer by getting them to wonder about how things will turn out and whether or not the characters will succeed. The issue is that, since we already know how the "mission" in Rogue One goes (The Rebels will get the plans, using them to blow up the Death Star in A New Hope), it doesn't work. So, the film had to find another way to engage the viewer to make up for that, and that would be through getting them invested in the characters and their relationships, so that even if they know how the mission will end, they still want to know how the leads will end up. Rogue One doesn't do that, when it desperately needed to. There needed to be investment in those characters in order for the film for the film to work; you had to get the audience to care more about them.

Compare it with Godzilla, another Edwards film that has arguably flatter characters, and yet I enjoyed much more. Although the characters weren't anything special in that movie (except for Cranston), I wanted to know how it would end and that's what made me invested in it. Would Godzilla defeat the MUTOs? Would humanity ultimately prevail? If so, at what cost? The character weren't anything special, but they served their purpose and worked in the context of the kind of story they were going to tell, where the spectacle of the humans going up against these giant monsters and no knowing how the plot would go were the main focus. In that case, those things made up, in my mind, for the weaknesses in the characters.

On the opposite end, I can enjoy movies where I know how the story will turn out, because I care about the characters the film works to get us invested in. I know that the Boston Globe published their articles on child abuse by the Catholic Church, yet a film like Spotlight is still engaging. Because I like the character, emphasize with them, and want to see them when they succeed. Or how I know the Titanic will sink, but still care about what happens with Jack and Rose. If the conclusion is foregone, you have to give the audience something that isn't. Will the two lovers on the sinking ship survive together? Will the soldiers on the mission to save Matt Damon after D-Day all survive? How will the story affect the reporters? Stuff like that you cared about. The problem is, Rogue One didn't give you any reason to care about whether its characters would live or die.

It's less about taking out and adding small lego pieces, and more like looking at a collapsed house that happened to be built on 40 degree incline, and where it was designed as though the ground beneath was flat. It's about choosing the wrong strategy to tell the story they wanted, setting out with the wrong approach, and all the problems stemming from that.
 
Felt like a whole lot of wasted potential.

Things that annoyed me the most:

Saw Gerrera choosing to die for no god damn reason after being told there's a chance to save the Rebellion
Jyn's adopted father and birth father, both of whom we barely know, die within 20 minutes of each other
The ridiculous contrivances the heroes had to deal with in the final battle
The space battle filled with a bunch of nobody characters

Some nice Death Star shots though. I'll have to check out the soundtrack on Spotify.
 
It was okay. The biggest failing is I didn't give a shit about any of the characters. It did feel like a movie directed by a sociopath who didn't really understand human emotion. There were good moments, but most beats were too predictable and clean. Compared to something like Guardians of the Galaxy, and it's like night and day.
 
Felt like a whole lot of wasted potential.

Things that annoyed me the most:

Saw Gerrera choosing to die for no god damn reason after being told there's a chance to save the Rebellion
Jyn's adopted father and birth father, both of whom we barely know, die within 20 minutes of each other
The ridiculous contrivances the heroes had to deal with in the final battle
The space battle filled with a bunch of nobody characters

That MonCal Admiral was a true strategist.
 
I liked the movie much more than TFA, TBH. It has a nice and varied cast, the last act was quite cool and I liked both the premise and the story told in the film. After having watched the first 30 minutes I already knew that
the main cast was going to die, since otherwise it wouldn't make any sense that nobody mentioned them in Episode IV-VI.

It was refreshing, seeing a film that didn't focus as much in the Force, but just a group of Rebels doing their thing.
_______

Instead of calling out the OT for having watched it illegally, which is not something you can prove, you could talk about the movie.

Seriously. It's Star Wars. It made a billion worldwide in theaters. It's still making money in theaters. It's probably moving a fair amount of merchandise. The Blu-Ray will sell well enough anyway. This isn't a prestige film that barely recouped its budget in its theatrical and is getting a second chance due to the Academy Awards.


This is a substantially better worded version of what I was planning on saying. Rogue One is actually my favorite Star Wars film. I feel like it was really really successful as a short story set in the greater Star Wars universe, and I like that waaaaay more than the sky walker/solo family being the focus

I'd watch Star Wars one offs forever tbh, they could just drop the episodes and I'd be fine
 
The scenes where Vader and IP man were owning fools were both good, but other than that it was a huge bore. Definitely glad I didn't pay $15 to see it in theaters, but it wasn't bad like TFA either. 5/10
 
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