Not to inflate your expectations, but just wait until you get to Winter Soldier. Looking forward to your write up, I think Captain America is pretty fantastic as well; underrated, even.
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LttP: The Marvel Cinematic Universe. Please mark any spoilers past where I am.
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Not to inflate your expectations, but just wait until you get to Winter Soldier. Looking forward to your write up, I think Captain America is pretty fantastic as well; underrated, even.
Scrooge McDuck
Member
Chris Hemsworth salvaged the movie for me. The most memorable parts of the film are the diner scene and the breakfast scene.
Civil War ain't out yet, but Cap - for me at least - has consistently brought something refreshing towards the MCU.
Just finished my first watch of Captain America and wow that was so over the top fucking goofy. It's hard to even rank it among the other MCU movies I've seen. Right now I kind of want to say I like it more than Iron Man and Hulk, even. Definitely more than Iron Man 3 and I don't even have to mention the trashcan fire that is Thor. Hard to take anything in Captain America seriously and I almost have to just applaud the brazen stupidity that it was as a whole. I feel like if you're going to go goofy you may as well turn it up to 11 like this did.
Good stuff. Would watch again.
Good stuff. Would watch again.
serenewarfare
Banned
Cap 1 is a movie that I thought was okay the first time I saw it, but I've loved it more every time I've rewatched it. So many little things are right about that movie.
As for Winter Soldier, oh my I can't wait for OP to get to Winter Soldier. Best MCU film and one of my favorite films of the last few years. Love that movie so much.
As for Winter Soldier, oh my I can't wait for OP to get to Winter Soldier. Best MCU film and one of my favorite films of the last few years. Love that movie so much.
TDLink
Member
Captain America is my favourite of the phase 1 films. Even more than Avengers (which I think suffers from needing to see prior films to fully work on its own). Actually, without spoiling anything, I think Avengers existing/needing to exist prevented Cap 1 from being even better. Overall a really great movie though. The Alan Menken composed "Star Spangled Man" song was a huge surprise and perfectly used as well. Doubt we'll ever see something like that in a MCU movie again. It's borderline criminal how underrated/overlooked this movie is (not that it's without flaw of course).
mrmickfran
Member
Hulk wasn't really that bad. Just, stale.
The Thor movies though... Ugh.
The Thor movies though... Ugh.
Why does that one woman have her full-face mask on at a BBQ?Eh-Thor is very warm and friendly and loving to his friends and just about everyone really.
TDLink
Member
Well this is sort of what I was getting at. I feel like the movie is perfect up through rescuing Bucky (which is over half of the film), like wouldn't change a thing. And after that everything is very well done but doesn't entirely gel. The time skip/montage feels like it takes away from the film. It could have been a truly outstanding movie if they didn't need to end it with Steve getting frozen for The Avengers. Maybe make Bucky dying and the train the climax somehow? I'm not sure. I still enjoy the rest and think it's well made but it's a letdown after the first 60% or so of the movie because it isn't where it seemed to be leading. It's altered from its natural course due to another movie. The climax with the airship is fantastic though even if it feels like it should have happened in a sequel rather this first movie.
Still think it's great though and I think The Winter Soldier is as well, so I can't argue with the direction they took with the Cap movies.
Agreed. Especially since the general audience still viewed cap as sorta lame and bland. But like the general public he's gonna see how awesome cap really is in the winter soldier.
Captain America: The First Avenger
When the movie opened in modern day I groaned. I really thought they were going to do another fish out of water story like they Did with Thor, but this time with a guy displaced in time rather than a guy from another world. Thankfully I ended up being wrong.
So after the short intro we are introduced to Steve Rogers, the man that will become Captain America, and something just feels off. The CG they used to make him look so small and scrawny when he had his shirt off had an uncanny valley effect on me that needless to say did not leave a good first impression. Thankfully it's not long before he has his shirt back on and is getting the shit kicked out of him in an alleyway.
Before Steve becomes Cap he's pretty relatable.While I've never been alive during wartime (thank god) a character motivated by the loss of a loved one(s) is a trope for a reason. They even made him even easier to empathize with by making his goal not to explicitly kill anyone, but just to put an end to the war. He's also incredibly selfless from the get go, even going so far as to throw himself on what he thinks is a live grenade to try and protect others, which is a nice change of pace. That being said all this does contribute to a problem that I have with him that I'll get into when talking about Cap.
We're next introduced to Bucky when he comes to the rescue when Steve was getting the shit kicked out of him. Wait a second, we now have a character that is friends with Steve, was enlisted before him, and is trying to convince him to give up on his dreams of being in the army? Yeah...
Now I like Bucky. When he was trying to talk Steve out of joining the army because he's clearly not fit to serve, he never came off as condescending. In quite a few movies I always ask myself why certain characters are friends because they seem about as compatible as oil and water. Sadly we don't get to see much of him before he gets shipped out into his role as the bachelor in a bind.
It's not long before Rogers manages to get into the army thanks to their new super soldier program where they try to make a man out of him. Of course he proves that he is about as swift as a stagnant pool, has as much force as a light drizzle, and is about as strong a a frightened mouse. They wanted the troops to get a flag from the top of a pole, I couldn't not make this reference.
I expected this movie to not have any prominent female roles due to the time period it takes place in. I expected to have a woman waiting for Cap to return from war at most so Agent Carter was such a nice surprise. I was in love with her from her introduction and she just kept getting better (mostly). Is her super marksmanship a super power? She seems like she could even give Domino a run for her money. I didn't like how inconsistent it was though. She can hit a guy from quite a distance driving away from her but she can't hit a guy driving towards her? Movie pls. Can I get a series starring her? Oh wait, yes I can. Y'all have no idea how excited I am to watch her TV series. Oh and she was absolutely killing it in that dress in the bar.
It was refreshing to have a villain that was just "fuck it, I'm evil. Worship me." after all of the others which tried to keep up appearances. It's always great to see Hugo Weaving as a villain. His face is just so punchable that you feel good when he finally gets what's coming to him. Oh yeah him and cap are going to face off in this self destructing base, this is going to be awe-
W-What the fuck is that? THAT"S the best the special effects team could come up with? It looks like they bought it at a Wal-Mart during Halloween for crying out loud. Look, I know these are family movies so they can't make something too scary because of the kids, but really? I feel like they could have done a bit better. I was expecting something on par with redeads in terms of scare factor. It also gets rid of the main reason I liked Weaving in the role, his face.
Are super soldier serums in the Marvel universe extracted from the Triforce or something? This is the second time we've seen the serum affect someone due to their personality. I'm totally expecting a villain to turn into a pig man some time during the MCU.
I'm really interested in seeing what became of Hydra after the events of the film. A group like that won't just collapse without a leader so I really want to know who took over, how they took over, and what their goals are (aside aside from world domination) and how they plan on achieving them. It's because of this that I wish that the movie had ended differently. I understand that they needed Cap in the present day so he could be in The Avengers (Which I'm super pumped to see BTW) but it makes me sad that The Winter Soldier won't have the rebuilding of Hydra in it. Seeing how they've changed in modern times will be pretty cool though.
Who's strong and brave, here to save the American way?
I love that they played up the propaganda angle when Rogers was successfully transformed. Of course the military's only super soldier is too valuable to let out on the battlefield, so what do they do? Turn him into propaganda of course! It's just too perfect. I could totally see the government doing that after spending so much money on this whole thing.
As for Cap himself, well he didn't really change as a person after the procedure. I was totally expecting him to let the power go to his head and become a little full of himself for a while before realizing how much of a dick he was being when someone got hurt because of him. Instead his arc is more about accepting the fact that he needs to do what's right, even if the government doesn't agree which I really appreciated. Seeing as this is called Captain America I truly didn't see it coming.
I do have one problem with Cap though and it's that he's too perfect. I suppose him being horrible with women is meant to be a flaw, but it just makes him adorable. I thought he was using fondue as a euphemism for sex throughout the movie because he didn't want to say sex, but it was because he thought fondue was sex. That's just too precious. Steve Rogers is a big dumb sexy baby. I suppose this will actually be a benefit in The Avengers though. I imagine him and Tony ( I guess I have to call him Tony now that his father has had a prominent role) will play off of each other very well.
I loved that Howard Stark was his Q. It was great getting to see him outside of old recordings and without having our perception skewed by Tony. He really seems like a good guy and I'd like to see him again in the future even thought it's incredibly unlikely.
The movie was absolutely gorgeous. I feel like they absolutely nailed the look and atmosphere.
It was cool seeing actors that have appeared on Doctor Who.
The body count surprised me. I know this is a war movie as well as a super hero movie, but it was still shocking to me. I didn't think it was bad, nor would it stop me from showing this to a child though.
Overall I had an amazing time watching this movie and Winter Soldier has shot up to my most anticipated phase 2 movie. Going into this I wasn't very excited. I saw Captain America as a relic of the past that couldn't be brought into the modern era but boy was I wrong. Funny how the movie I was most interested in (Thor) ended up being my least favorite and the one I was least interested in has become my favorite. If you happen to have never seen this movie but are reading this post then I urge you to go see the movie.
We're not done yet though, it's time for the second one-shot "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer"
Coulson is a secretly a badass, huh? I'm guessing this will come into play in The Avengers.
I've seen a few posts in this thread referring to me as a guy, but I'm not, I'm a girl.
My write-up for The Avengers will be up either Friday or Saturday. It'll most likely be Friday though, but I'm putting Saturday just to be safe.
When the movie opened in modern day I groaned. I really thought they were going to do another fish out of water story like they Did with Thor, but this time with a guy displaced in time rather than a guy from another world. Thankfully I ended up being wrong.
So after the short intro we are introduced to Steve Rogers, the man that will become Captain America, and something just feels off. The CG they used to make him look so small and scrawny when he had his shirt off had an uncanny valley effect on me that needless to say did not leave a good first impression. Thankfully it's not long before he has his shirt back on and is getting the shit kicked out of him in an alleyway.
Before Steve becomes Cap he's pretty relatable.While I've never been alive during wartime (thank god) a character motivated by the loss of a loved one(s) is a trope for a reason. They even made him even easier to empathize with by making his goal not to explicitly kill anyone, but just to put an end to the war. He's also incredibly selfless from the get go, even going so far as to throw himself on what he thinks is a live grenade to try and protect others, which is a nice change of pace. That being said all this does contribute to a problem that I have with him that I'll get into when talking about Cap.
We're next introduced to Bucky when he comes to the rescue when Steve was getting the shit kicked out of him. Wait a second, we now have a character that is friends with Steve, was enlisted before him, and is trying to convince him to give up on his dreams of being in the army? Yeah...
Now I like Bucky. When he was trying to talk Steve out of joining the army because he's clearly not fit to serve, he never came off as condescending. In quite a few movies I always ask myself why certain characters are friends because they seem about as compatible as oil and water. Sadly we don't get to see much of him before he gets shipped out into his role as the bachelor in a bind.
It's not long before Rogers manages to get into the army thanks to their new super soldier program where they try to make a man out of him. Of course he proves that he is about as swift as a stagnant pool, has as much force as a light drizzle, and is about as strong a a frightened mouse. They wanted the troops to get a flag from the top of a pole, I couldn't not make this reference.
I expected this movie to not have any prominent female roles due to the time period it takes place in. I expected to have a woman waiting for Cap to return from war at most so Agent Carter was such a nice surprise. I was in love with her from her introduction and she just kept getting better (mostly). Is her super marksmanship a super power? She seems like she could even give Domino a run for her money. I didn't like how inconsistent it was though. She can hit a guy from quite a distance driving away from her but she can't hit a guy driving towards her? Movie pls. Can I get a series starring her? Oh wait, yes I can. Y'all have no idea how excited I am to watch her TV series. Oh and she was absolutely killing it in that dress in the bar.
It was refreshing to have a villain that was just "fuck it, I'm evil. Worship me." after all of the others which tried to keep up appearances. It's always great to see Hugo Weaving as a villain. His face is just so punchable that you feel good when he finally gets what's coming to him. Oh yeah him and cap are going to face off in this self destructing base, this is going to be awe-
W-What the fuck is that? THAT"S the best the special effects team could come up with? It looks like they bought it at a Wal-Mart during Halloween for crying out loud. Look, I know these are family movies so they can't make something too scary because of the kids, but really? I feel like they could have done a bit better. I was expecting something on par with redeads in terms of scare factor. It also gets rid of the main reason I liked Weaving in the role, his face.
Are super soldier serums in the Marvel universe extracted from the Triforce or something? This is the second time we've seen the serum affect someone due to their personality. I'm totally expecting a villain to turn into a pig man some time during the MCU.
I'm really interested in seeing what became of Hydra after the events of the film. A group like that won't just collapse without a leader so I really want to know who took over, how they took over, and what their goals are (aside aside from world domination) and how they plan on achieving them. It's because of this that I wish that the movie had ended differently. I understand that they needed Cap in the present day so he could be in The Avengers (Which I'm super pumped to see BTW) but it makes me sad that The Winter Soldier won't have the rebuilding of Hydra in it. Seeing how they've changed in modern times will be pretty cool though.
Who's strong and brave, here to save the American way?
I love that they played up the propaganda angle when Rogers was successfully transformed. Of course the military's only super soldier is too valuable to let out on the battlefield, so what do they do? Turn him into propaganda of course! It's just too perfect. I could totally see the government doing that after spending so much money on this whole thing.
As for Cap himself, well he didn't really change as a person after the procedure. I was totally expecting him to let the power go to his head and become a little full of himself for a while before realizing how much of a dick he was being when someone got hurt because of him. Instead his arc is more about accepting the fact that he needs to do what's right, even if the government doesn't agree which I really appreciated. Seeing as this is called Captain America I truly didn't see it coming.
I do have one problem with Cap though and it's that he's too perfect. I suppose him being horrible with women is meant to be a flaw, but it just makes him adorable. I thought he was using fondue as a euphemism for sex throughout the movie because he didn't want to say sex, but it was because he thought fondue was sex. That's just too precious. Steve Rogers is a big dumb sexy baby. I suppose this will actually be a benefit in The Avengers though. I imagine him and Tony ( I guess I have to call him Tony now that his father has had a prominent role) will play off of each other very well.
I loved that Howard Stark was his Q. It was great getting to see him outside of old recordings and without having our perception skewed by Tony. He really seems like a good guy and I'd like to see him again in the future even thought it's incredibly unlikely.
The movie was absolutely gorgeous. I feel like they absolutely nailed the look and atmosphere.
It was cool seeing actors that have appeared on Doctor Who.
The body count surprised me. I know this is a war movie as well as a super hero movie, but it was still shocking to me. I didn't think it was bad, nor would it stop me from showing this to a child though.
Overall I had an amazing time watching this movie and Winter Soldier has shot up to my most anticipated phase 2 movie. Going into this I wasn't very excited. I saw Captain America as a relic of the past that couldn't be brought into the modern era but boy was I wrong. Funny how the movie I was most interested in (Thor) ended up being my least favorite and the one I was least interested in has become my favorite. If you happen to have never seen this movie but are reading this post then I urge you to go see the movie.
We're not done yet though, it's time for the second one-shot "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to Thor's Hammer"
Coulson is a secretly a badass, huh? I'm guessing this will come into play in The Avengers.
I've seen a few posts in this thread referring to me as a guy, but I'm not, I'm a girl.
My write-up for The Avengers will be up either Friday or Saturday. It'll most likely be Friday though, but I'm putting Saturday just to be safe.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
I love First Avenger. Best Phase 1 movie by a long shot.
Also, you'll be happy to know that Howard Stark does play a role in the Agent Carter TV Series.
Also, you'll be happy to know that Howard Stark does play a role in the Agent Carter TV Series.
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
MCU Cap (not familiar with comic Cap) is definitely flawed, it's just one of those flaws that isn't super obvious in every scenario.
Does a bit of character analysis count as spoilers if I don't really get into any story specifics? I don't really think so. I'm being super vague and not talking about plot at all except for the first movie.
Cap exists in this space where he's sort of a representation of American Ideals (TM) done correctly, but at the same time, this kind of harkens back to an age where things were oversimplified. The real world is pretty complicated, especially with modern culture being unusually self-reflective compared to the past. He's sort of the perfect soldier because he's not only extremely capable, but he's got those ideals to know when maybe he should be going against orders instead. That's kind of all he is, though. It's (very) lightly touched on in the movies (because comic book movies are all about villains and mayhem, so it's not always the right setting for you to see how the characters act in other scenarios), but he's totally without purpose if he's not fighting someone. His entire life is warfare of some kind. He became who he is in WWII, a war with a very obviously wrong side, so he's good at picking his side and fighting for it, but not everything in life is a battle. It's sort of a case where a character's greatest strength is also their greatest flaw. Which is an excellent thing to do if you can pull it off.
Someone correct me if I'm way off here. It's been a while since I watched Cap 1 and 2 (though I saw both Avengers recently and this still seems broadly correct). ...Also I haven't seen Civil War yet, that could throw a wrench in it.
Does a bit of character analysis count as spoilers if I don't really get into any story specifics? I don't really think so. I'm being super vague and not talking about plot at all except for the first movie.
Cap exists in this space where he's sort of a representation of American Ideals (TM) done correctly, but at the same time, this kind of harkens back to an age where things were oversimplified. The real world is pretty complicated, especially with modern culture being unusually self-reflective compared to the past. He's sort of the perfect soldier because he's not only extremely capable, but he's got those ideals to know when maybe he should be going against orders instead. That's kind of all he is, though. It's (very) lightly touched on in the movies (because comic book movies are all about villains and mayhem, so it's not always the right setting for you to see how the characters act in other scenarios), but he's totally without purpose if he's not fighting someone. His entire life is warfare of some kind. He became who he is in WWII, a war with a very obviously wrong side, so he's good at picking his side and fighting for it, but not everything in life is a battle. It's sort of a case where a character's greatest strength is also their greatest flaw. Which is an excellent thing to do if you can pull it off.
Someone correct me if I'm way off here. It's been a while since I watched Cap 1 and 2 (though I saw both Avengers recently and this still seems broadly correct). ...Also I haven't seen Civil War yet, that could throw a wrench in it.
Glad you enjoyed First Avenger. Steve's line of "I don't want to kill anyone. I don't like bullies. I don't care where they're from" instantly sells the character. It instantly makes him someone you can root for. I absolutely loved the earnest adventure film quality it goes for, but once it hits the action montage, the movie kinda clumsily waddles towards the finale. You never get to know the Howling Commandos or anything. None of the action really feels connected. It's unfortunate.
You should absolutely watch this deleted scene from Avengers though. It's really unfortunate it was cut, but it is the perfect bridge between Cap 1 and Avengers. It's perfectly okay to watch before seeing Avengers, as the clip ends right at Steve's actual introduction in the movie. There is one incomplete effect though, as Steve is supposed to be drawing the newly built STARK Tower. Just for clarification.
You should absolutely watch this deleted scene from Avengers though. It's really unfortunate it was cut, but it is the perfect bridge between Cap 1 and Avengers. It's perfectly okay to watch before seeing Avengers, as the clip ends right at Steve's actual introduction in the movie. There is one incomplete effect though, as Steve is supposed to be drawing the newly built STARK Tower. Just for clarification.
Wheeljack539
Member
The explanation is in the film itself and is one of my favorite scenes in the movie:
"The serum wasn't ready - but more important: The man. The serum amplifies everything that is inside so good becomes great. Bad, becomes worse.
This is why you were chosen. Because a strong man who has known power all his life may lose respect for that power. But a weak man knows the value of strength and knows compassion".
The music at how Steve receives this and his silent reaction after that first part (where he blinks and looks downward) solidified him as a favorite for me going forward.
However, going back to your question - It does make you wonder about what kind of man Blonsky was that it not only made him more aggressive but turned him into the Abomination.
Yeah, Cap has a surprising... body count.
Glad you enjoyed it and Winter Soldier was a very pleasant surprise for all of us so here's hoping you enjoy it as well.
I second watching that scene as I feel that was one that should have been in the final cut of the film.
Do not however watch the Honest Trailers for Cap 1 as there is a bit of a spoiler for Winter Soldier if you are going into Phase II completely blind.
Gotta agree with this. Skinny Rogers was fucking weird looking the entire time until he got the serum. I'm glad the movie was good enough to look past that, but wow that was awkward. Like his head was too big.
I think the First Avenger is still my favorite MCU movie by a pretty fair margin. I prefer it to the Winter Soldier. It just feels so earnest - it takes itself completely seriously, and it's super goofy, but its heart is in the right place so you can't help but fall in love. Just like Captain America - the tone matches the character perfectly.
And there's so many great character scenes! Skinny Steve in the alleyway, Erskine's pre-procedure pep talk, Steve trying to get drunk after Bucky's death... and, of course, the finale with the plane crash. Hurts so good. Those are the sorts of things I love superhero movies for.
And there's so many great character scenes! Skinny Steve in the alleyway, Erskine's pre-procedure pep talk, Steve trying to get drunk after Bucky's death... and, of course, the finale with the plane crash. Hurts so good. Those are the sorts of things I love superhero movies for.
Wheeljack539
Member
The funny thing is is that when they did this the studio suits watching this thought that skinny Steve was the real thing and his buffed up version was CG work.
RiderKairuu
Member
I don't know why I'm so excited for OP to reach Winter Soldier. Wish I could see that movie for the first time all over again.
bananafactory
Banned
OP I am a huge fan of the Agent Carter series. Any chance you could do a write-up of that in here once you are done with the films? (I assume you plan on watching it now?)
I plan on doing all of the shows once I finish the films. I'm still deciding whether to do write-ups for each episode or wait and do a full season in one go.
Friend sent me this video the other day. Pretty interesting take on a flaw within Steve's morality, albeit a little overreaching one.
EDIT FOR OP: PHASE 2 SPOILERS
Inquisitive_Ghost
Member
Yeah, this video is what I was talking about, but I didn't want to link to it because spoilers, lol. Though he's entirely too charitable to Tony and what he thinks he represents.
bananafactory
Banned
I think the shows (especially Agent Carter) work better as a whole than individual episodes (which can be inconsistent) and analyzing each one as you go may not be as enjoyable as just binging a bunch and letting them flow a bit better. Carter especially should be easy to do this since its pretty short (8 episodes or so per season)
SHIELD would be better for individual write-ups since they are slightly more standalone in nature. Or at least just splitting each season in half and doing the evaluation that way (seasons 2 and 3 have distinct and powerful midseason finales which lead into a hiatus for a few months)
Of course, do whatever you prefer. Just thought that info might help
I enjoy your write-ups, op. Cap TFA is my favorite phase 1 MCU movie.
Although it's curious that you found Weaving's Red Skull makeup silly. I think most would say that it was one of the film's greater successes, in that it translated Skull's look from comic to film remarkably well, even though personally I think they could've made his mouth/lips more ghastly.
I disagree with that assessment of Tony Stark.
Also yeah, don't watch this until you've finished Age of Ultron, op.
Although it's curious that you found Weaving's Red Skull makeup silly. I think most would say that it was one of the film's greater successes, in that it translated Skull's look from comic to film remarkably well, even though personally I think they could've made his mouth/lips more ghastly.
I disagree with that assessment of Tony Stark.
Also yeah, don't watch this until you've finished Age of Ultron, op.
Great thread and write-ups OP, only through Iron Man and Incredible Hulk posts so far but so far, so good !
I know some people mentioned the TV shows but are you including the one shots too? Most of those are side-stories, the only one I'd say is relevant is 'The Consultant' as it ret-cons Hulk to work with the change of direction the MCU was heading into Avengers after that film was made, and should probably be watched after Iron Man 2 (which is roughly where Hulk takes place in the revised timeline).
!I know some people mentioned the TV shows but are you including the one shots too? Most of those are side-stories, the only one I'd say is relevant is 'The Consultant' as it ret-cons Hulk to work with the change of direction the MCU was heading into Avengers after that film was made, and should probably be watched after Iron Man 2 (which is roughly where Hulk takes place in the revised timeline).
Just found this thread, am absolutely loving it, thank you for doing this.
Also, thank you for everyone for keeping the discussion very clean, no stupid hints about "ooh, if you like that, then you'll love it when you get to Ant-Man!" that gives away the very thing you're pretending not to spoil.
I did want to address some things with Thor (as I feel it is one of the more underrated titles of the MCU).
Thor is 100% about the Loki-Thor interaction. The first time I saw it, I enjoyed it for what I thought it was, but felt it fell a bit flat (like a lot of people did). It was only after reflection and a second viewing did I realize where the story and intrigue lied, and that was with Loki.
Yes, there's the 'jealous brother' thing, but watching Loki's machinations unfurl is one of the greatest things in the MCU. Thor's got bravado, sure, but it's Loki who causes them to raid Jotenheim. It's Loki who causes Thor to get exiled. When Thor is at his lowest (when he fails to pick up Mjolnir) Loki's lies ultimately destroy him. The fact that the lie is about how their mother feels really lays out Loki's need, which is solidified with the whole triple-cross Loki pulls with the Frost Giants, purely so that Frigga would love him more.
As you saw in the post-credits scene in Captain America, Loki is not finished, and, yes, that story continues very nicely in the MCU.
I certainly agree that Sif and the Warriors Three are underused, but, then, they've been underused so many times in the comics, that it's their lot in life.
Also, Thor has one of the best (if not the best) soundtracks in the MCU.
Also, thank you for everyone for keeping the discussion very clean, no stupid hints about "ooh, if you like that, then you'll love it when you get to Ant-Man!" that gives away the very thing you're pretending not to spoil.
I did want to address some things with Thor (as I feel it is one of the more underrated titles of the MCU).
Thor is 100% about the Loki-Thor interaction. The first time I saw it, I enjoyed it for what I thought it was, but felt it fell a bit flat (like a lot of people did). It was only after reflection and a second viewing did I realize where the story and intrigue lied, and that was with Loki.
Yes, there's the 'jealous brother' thing, but watching Loki's machinations unfurl is one of the greatest things in the MCU. Thor's got bravado, sure, but it's Loki who causes them to raid Jotenheim. It's Loki who causes Thor to get exiled. When Thor is at his lowest (when he fails to pick up Mjolnir) Loki's lies ultimately destroy him. The fact that the lie is about how their mother feels really lays out Loki's need, which is solidified with the whole triple-cross Loki pulls with the Frost Giants, purely so that Frigga would love him more.
As you saw in the post-credits scene in Captain America, Loki is not finished, and, yes, that story continues very nicely in the MCU.
I certainly agree that Sif and the Warriors Three are underused, but, then, they've been underused so many times in the comics, that it's their lot in life.
Also, Thor has one of the best (if not the best) soundtracks in the MCU.
Benzychenz
Member
I completely agree with you so far, Thor was utter trash, Iron Man 2 was bad, Hulk was good, Iron Man was great, Captain America was fantastic.
My top 3 all up are Guardians of the Galaxy, The Winter Soldier and The Avengers, so hopefully it gets even better for you too (ignoring Thor 2, though I found it more entertaining than the first at least).
My top 3 all up are Guardians of the Galaxy, The Winter Soldier and The Avengers, so hopefully it gets even better for you too (ignoring Thor 2, though I found it more entertaining than the first at least).
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
I'm now finished with my MCU re-watch. I wouldn't recommend watching them all back to back. They get a bit stale and samey.
- Thor (2011), dir. Kenneth Branagh - ★★★
- Captain America: The First Avenger (2011), dir. Joe Johnston - ★★½
- The Avengers (2012), dir. Joss Whedon - ★★★½
- Thor: The Dark World (2013), dir. Alan Taylor - ★★★★
- Iron Man Three (2013), dir. Shane Black - ★★★★½
- Guardians of the Galaxy (2014), dir. James Gunn - ★★★★
- Captain America: The Winter Soldier (2014, dir. Anthony Russo, Joe Russo) - ★★★★½
- Avengers: Age of Ultron (2015, dir. Joss Whedon) - ★★★
- Ant-Man (2015, dir. Peyton Reed) - ★★★½
Captain America has the best rise in quality of the bunch. The first one is so bad at times it would have been a disaster if it hadn't been for Hugo and Chris. It doesn't even know what to do with its third act but goes full montage. Then it just meanders for another 30 minutes and ends in the most stupid way possible. Winter Soldier finally did something with the characters, it's great.
The first Avengers movie is great fun but a lot worse looking back than when it came out. It was what it needed to be at the time but giving it props for succeeding, I feel, is just nerds talking. It's not that impressive. Certainly not looking back, it's just hype. Age of Ultron, on the other hand, feels out of place in the second phase. It seems dated. It's more of our heroes fighting paper enemies. It feels very video gamey and without anything at stake. It's just straight up stupid at times. Really disappointed in it.
Over-all, they're getting better. Perhaps it's my taste but I really dig Thor and The Dark World. I like the juxtaposition. I believe Thor 1 has the best third act of any MCU-movie because its stakes are within the story. The Dark World has all the usual third act problems that MCU movies have had thus far but the art direction and visual design really elevate it above other Marvel movies. It also helps that they have the Loki-Thor-combo that is unbeatable.
Iron Man 3 and Guardians of the Galaxy are the most fun of the bunch. Feels like pet projects and really just playful things that are designed to be entertaining. The pop-corn flicks. Really dig them both.
Ant-Man got worse coming back to it. Has some wonderful characters and dampens some of the third act problems but also has the worst bad guy of MCU, which is pretty telling.
Tonight is Civil War-time. Really looking forward to it.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Okay, now I can't wait to see what Kinsei thinks of Winter Soldier.
The Avengers
I'll let you know right now this won't be as in depth as my other write-ups because I really don't know how to judge action scenes and since they play a large part in this movie in comparison to the others I don't have as much to work with.
I'm going to start by talking about Hawkeye since he's the one Avenger I haven't mentioned at all during my write-ups. (I knew he was going to be one from his appearance in Thor, but there was so little to go on there that I figured I'd just not mention him.) So he spends quite a bit of the film as Loki's flunky and boy is it terrifying. Just think about being forced to kill your co-workers, some of whom you undoubtedly think of as friends, and not being able to do a damn thing to stop it. No matter how much your cry out nothing comes out of your mouth and no matter how much you fight against it you let go of that bowstring sending the arrow straight to it's target, your target. That's the kind of thing that gives me nightmares.
Sadly since Hawkeye is not freed from Loki's control until near the end of the movie we don;t get the really get to know him that well. We find out a bit of his history with Black Widow but it's not much and I was left wanting more. It actually felt like they were setting up a prequel movie about the two but sadly that's not the case. I hope I get to see more of him and his past in Age of Ultron.
"A Joss Whedon Film" Oh great, someone I like is going to die. Let's see it can't be any of the Avengers and it's probably not Fury so that just leaves... Oh Coulson, you were already enjoyable in the other movies, but then you just had to go fanboy hard over Cap. That was That was great, too great in fact. As soon as that happened I knew he wasn't going to make it out of this alive. At least he got to fire the destroyer gun before he died.
Fury is kind of a dick isn't he? I totally understand him keeping the weapons secret and using Coulson's death to try and get the heroes to play nice with each other, but did he have to dip those cards in blood? That was just cold. Attempted humor aside, I'm glad Fury got do much screen time. A lot of his lines are just so quotable, a personal favorite of mine being " I recognize the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."
Before I get into the Avengers that we've seen in the past movie, I'd like to thank Shaanyboi for posting the cut scene that leads into Steve's introduction in this movie.
I can not for the life of me understand why this scene was cut. It was the perfect jumping off point from the end of Captain America, and it clued us into Steve's state of mind right away. While we can certainly infer it from the scene in the final movie where Fury recruits Steve for the team, I feel that this scene does it better. There's also the waitress who in the final cut just appears out of nowhere at the end.
Steve is pretty lost in life now that he's living in a world without a Nazi army so when Fury comes to recruit him, he naturally accepts. I like the way this manifests later on in the movie. When Tony and Bruce start snooping around after becoming suspicious od SHIELD's true intentions for the Tesseract and Steve tells them to drop it and focus on the mission, I have to wonder if that's due to him not wanting to risk being thrown off the mission and being forced back to a normal life. Of course he ends up doing the right thing and does his own investigating in the end so no matter what his feeling were, he wasn't going to potentially risk the lives of others because of them. It's a shame that we don't get to see new sides to every character like this.
Y'know when it comes to contrived fight scenes I thought the fight between Tony and Rhodes in Iron Man 2 was bad, but I think the Tony and Thor fight in this takes the cake. Surely Tony was briefed on who Thor is and that he's a potential ally, and Thor has been to Earth an knows there are good people here so naturally the two have a conversation about Loki like two adults right? Haha, of course not! These are two super heroes so we have to make them fight each other even though it makes no sense. It would make sense later on when they are being influenced by Loki's scepter but not now. It's so freaking dumb.
Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner was interesting. I can't really say which I prefer in a direct comparison because it almost feels like they're playing completely different characters. A lot has happened to Bruce between the ending of The Incredible Hulk and The Avengers and it shows. Ruffalo's Banner is a man that feels like he actually has pretty good control of The Hulk and uses him as a tool for intimidation. He makes a big show out of his struggles with controlling The Hulk and his angry outbursts, but I think they are just that, a show. When he transformed for the final battle he seemed to be perfectly capable of controlling The Hulk (which makes him punching Thor all the more amusing) to the point where he even save Tony when he's falling after sending the Nuke into the mothership. Now the first transformation does have him going on a rampage in the airship, but eith everything that happened I feel like it's more likely that he was out of it after hitting his head than him not being able to control The Hulk until the final battle. Because of this I really wish we had gotten a Hulk sequel instead of an Iron Man sequel. Seeing his progression from TIH to The Avengers would have been great.
So clearly I haven't finished my write-up for the movie but this is the end of this post. The reason for this being that it is currently 11:52 at night and I really need to get to sleep. I'm realizing three hours isn't enough time to set aside to do these write-ups so starting with the write-up for Iron Man 3 I'll begin writing them the day before I plan to post them.
The rest of my Avengers write-up along with my thoughts on the one-shot Item 47 will be up sometime tomorrow.
I'll let you know right now this won't be as in depth as my other write-ups because I really don't know how to judge action scenes and since they play a large part in this movie in comparison to the others I don't have as much to work with.
I'm going to start by talking about Hawkeye since he's the one Avenger I haven't mentioned at all during my write-ups. (I knew he was going to be one from his appearance in Thor, but there was so little to go on there that I figured I'd just not mention him.) So he spends quite a bit of the film as Loki's flunky and boy is it terrifying. Just think about being forced to kill your co-workers, some of whom you undoubtedly think of as friends, and not being able to do a damn thing to stop it. No matter how much your cry out nothing comes out of your mouth and no matter how much you fight against it you let go of that bowstring sending the arrow straight to it's target, your target. That's the kind of thing that gives me nightmares.
Sadly since Hawkeye is not freed from Loki's control until near the end of the movie we don;t get the really get to know him that well. We find out a bit of his history with Black Widow but it's not much and I was left wanting more. It actually felt like they were setting up a prequel movie about the two but sadly that's not the case. I hope I get to see more of him and his past in Age of Ultron.
"A Joss Whedon Film" Oh great, someone I like is going to die. Let's see it can't be any of the Avengers and it's probably not Fury so that just leaves... Oh Coulson, you were already enjoyable in the other movies, but then you just had to go fanboy hard over Cap. That was That was great, too great in fact. As soon as that happened I knew he wasn't going to make it out of this alive. At least he got to fire the destroyer gun before he died.
Fury is kind of a dick isn't he? I totally understand him keeping the weapons secret and using Coulson's death to try and get the heroes to play nice with each other, but did he have to dip those cards in blood? That was just cold. Attempted humor aside, I'm glad Fury got do much screen time. A lot of his lines are just so quotable, a personal favorite of mine being " I recognize the council has made a decision, but given that it's a stupid-ass decision, I've elected to ignore it."
Before I get into the Avengers that we've seen in the past movie, I'd like to thank Shaanyboi for posting the cut scene that leads into Steve's introduction in this movie.
I can not for the life of me understand why this scene was cut. It was the perfect jumping off point from the end of Captain America, and it clued us into Steve's state of mind right away. While we can certainly infer it from the scene in the final movie where Fury recruits Steve for the team, I feel that this scene does it better. There's also the waitress who in the final cut just appears out of nowhere at the end.
Steve is pretty lost in life now that he's living in a world without a Nazi army so when Fury comes to recruit him, he naturally accepts. I like the way this manifests later on in the movie. When Tony and Bruce start snooping around after becoming suspicious od SHIELD's true intentions for the Tesseract and Steve tells them to drop it and focus on the mission, I have to wonder if that's due to him not wanting to risk being thrown off the mission and being forced back to a normal life. Of course he ends up doing the right thing and does his own investigating in the end so no matter what his feeling were, he wasn't going to potentially risk the lives of others because of them. It's a shame that we don't get to see new sides to every character like this.
Y'know when it comes to contrived fight scenes I thought the fight between Tony and Rhodes in Iron Man 2 was bad, but I think the Tony and Thor fight in this takes the cake. Surely Tony was briefed on who Thor is and that he's a potential ally, and Thor has been to Earth an knows there are good people here so naturally the two have a conversation about Loki like two adults right? Haha, of course not! These are two super heroes so we have to make them fight each other even though it makes no sense. It would make sense later on when they are being influenced by Loki's scepter but not now. It's so freaking dumb.
Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner was interesting. I can't really say which I prefer in a direct comparison because it almost feels like they're playing completely different characters. A lot has happened to Bruce between the ending of The Incredible Hulk and The Avengers and it shows. Ruffalo's Banner is a man that feels like he actually has pretty good control of The Hulk and uses him as a tool for intimidation. He makes a big show out of his struggles with controlling The Hulk and his angry outbursts, but I think they are just that, a show. When he transformed for the final battle he seemed to be perfectly capable of controlling The Hulk (which makes him punching Thor all the more amusing) to the point where he even save Tony when he's falling after sending the Nuke into the mothership. Now the first transformation does have him going on a rampage in the airship, but eith everything that happened I feel like it's more likely that he was out of it after hitting his head than him not being able to control The Hulk until the final battle. Because of this I really wish we had gotten a Hulk sequel instead of an Iron Man sequel. Seeing his progression from TIH to The Avengers would have been great.
So clearly I haven't finished my write-up for the movie but this is the end of this post. The reason for this being that it is currently 11:52 at night and I really need to get to sleep. I'm realizing three hours isn't enough time to set aside to do these write-ups so starting with the write-up for Iron Man 3 I'll begin writing them the day before I plan to post them.
The rest of my Avengers write-up along with my thoughts on the one-shot Item 47 will be up sometime tomorrow.
Glad you got around to seeing that deleted Cap scene.
I think the best element of the Avengers is that every character, when getting their face-off with Loki, does so in such a way that's perfectly representative of their character.
Captain America - dropping into frame to save a civilian standing up for himself at the feet of a dictator. In Germany no less.
Thor - an argument between two brothers, their history and rivalry clashing together. And again later, the two of them fighting atop a tower as chaos ensues around them.
Black Widow - an interrogation where she manipulates her target into gaining a sense of superiority, only to have played right into her hands.
Iron Man - a battle of egos, drink in hand.
Hawkeye - firing an arrow, only for his marksmanship and cleverness to catch an enemy off-guard.
Hulk - *SMASH*
It's an easy thing for a less-passionate writer to ignore, but I'm glad Whedon took the time to put this kind of a touch on it.
I think the best element of the Avengers is that every character, when getting their face-off with Loki, does so in such a way that's perfectly representative of their character.
Captain America - dropping into frame to save a civilian standing up for himself at the feet of a dictator. In Germany no less.
Thor - an argument between two brothers, their history and rivalry clashing together. And again later, the two of them fighting atop a tower as chaos ensues around them.
Black Widow - an interrogation where she manipulates her target into gaining a sense of superiority, only to have played right into her hands.
Iron Man - a battle of egos, drink in hand.
Hawkeye - firing an arrow, only for his marksmanship and cleverness to catch an enemy off-guard.
Hulk - *SMASH*
It's an easy thing for a less-passionate writer to ignore, but I'm glad Whedon took the time to put this kind of a touch on it.
bananafactory
Banned
Wow I had never seen that deleted Cap scene before. That actually makes him saving Ashley Johnson's character at the end even better.
I understand why they cut it, the movie moves at a fast pace and I think inserting that might have thrown it off...but god damn it's a shame. Thats good stuff.
I understand why they cut it, the movie moves at a fast pace and I think inserting that might have thrown it off...but god damn it's a shame. Thats good stuff.
They probably removed it for the "it's won by soldiers" cut to Cap punching the bag shot, which is snappy and all but lacks a bit. I'm guessing the original scene of Fury with the World Security Council ended with Fury saying something "You sent a soldier to fight a war" and then cut to the film reels saying "War!" or something.
Here's the rest of my Avengers write-up.
A lot of Black Widow's scenes were so frustrating to me. They're setting up all this backstory ripe for a prequel movie just like with Hawkeye and it's so sad that it was never made. Stop making her so amazing if she's not going to get her own movie.
I find it interesting that Fury would send her without any super powered back-up to recruit Banner. I guess it shows how much he respects her, but it seemed like a really bad idea. Sure everything worked out fine in the end, but if things had gone south it would have ended very poorly for her.
I see exile hasn't taught Loki anything. He's the same petulant child dreaming of grandeur that he was at the end of Thor. I kinda expected him to mature a little between the movies. His dreams of grandeur also apply to his plan and as Tony said, it was not a good idea. It did fit for him though so this isn't a complaint. In Loki's mind he was so far above everyone on Earth that he didn't even entertain the possibility that anyone would be able to defeat him so it makes perfect sense that he's be willing to dick around and try to drive the Avengers apart. Because of this I couldn't imagine a more fitting defeat than the one he suffered at the hands of The Hulk.
"Puny god" indeed.
That shawarma scene was the best. More of that in Age of Ultron please.
The bit where Black Widow plunged her electric knuckle spikes into the alien and used him to pilot the sky bike was brutal.
<3 you Hulk.
Is that big purple alien Ultron? I don;t think his name was mentioned in the movie.
I did not like Item 47. The jokes fell flat and I did not care for the bank robbing couple at all. I really hope that the woman (I forgot her name) isn't the new Coulson.
I'll most likely be watching Iron Man 3 on Wednesday and the write-up will probably be up on Friday.
A lot of Black Widow's scenes were so frustrating to me. They're setting up all this backstory ripe for a prequel movie just like with Hawkeye and it's so sad that it was never made. Stop making her so amazing if she's not going to get her own movie.
I find it interesting that Fury would send her without any super powered back-up to recruit Banner. I guess it shows how much he respects her, but it seemed like a really bad idea. Sure everything worked out fine in the end, but if things had gone south it would have ended very poorly for her.
I see exile hasn't taught Loki anything. He's the same petulant child dreaming of grandeur that he was at the end of Thor. I kinda expected him to mature a little between the movies. His dreams of grandeur also apply to his plan and as Tony said, it was not a good idea. It did fit for him though so this isn't a complaint. In Loki's mind he was so far above everyone on Earth that he didn't even entertain the possibility that anyone would be able to defeat him so it makes perfect sense that he's be willing to dick around and try to drive the Avengers apart. Because of this I couldn't imagine a more fitting defeat than the one he suffered at the hands of The Hulk.
"Puny god" indeed.
That shawarma scene was the best. More of that in Age of Ultron please.
The bit where Black Widow plunged her electric knuckle spikes into the alien and used him to pilot the sky bike was brutal.
<3 you Hulk.
Is that big purple alien Ultron? I don;t think his name was mentioned in the movie.
I did not like Item 47. The jokes fell flat and I did not care for the bank robbing couple at all. I really hope that the woman (I forgot her name) isn't the new Coulson.
I'll most likely be watching Iron Man 3 on Wednesday and the write-up will probably be up on Friday.
FUBAR McDangles
Member
No, that is Thanos. He is the big big bad guy they are leading up to fight against in Avengers 3/4.
Ultron is introduced in Age of Ultron.
Ah so that's Thanos. Thanks!
Baron von Loathsome
Member
Shhh!
I actually don't think this scene gets enough credit.
For one thing it's not that big of a surprise that Thor resorts to trying to incapacitate Tony since it's clear that Tony's ego is a problem from the start to anyone that knows him, and this is the first time in the movie we actually see how that manifests in a battle situation. Thor, for as noble as he is, is also rather bullheaded. Not only that but Loki is meant to be judged on Asgard soil as he's been gone for a long time, so Tony trying to claim dibs on him is obviously not going to sit well with Thor.
The action scene is also important for introducing the characters' capabilities. Them fighting in general is setting up the fact that the characters just don't mesh together at all, which generally as a comic book fan you can expect to be fun when exhibiting their differences, but it also introduces them properly to the newcomers of the movie since plenty of people will have gone into the Avengers not having necessarily seen all the movies. One of the Avengers' great strengths is that aside from the first Iron Man it's probably the movie you are least required to actually having watched all preceding movies since the plot is really simple and recapped superbly.
So not only do you get a fun action scene, it also shows the characters' powers and how they're stacked against each other. It shows that Thor is much stronger than Iron Man, so he's generally the muscle of the team, however it also shows that he's not invincible as Iron Man is able to fight back with some tactile tools. The sequence also shows that Cap's shield is more durable than Thor's hammer, as well as how the personalities align with each other.
The scene does a great job in re-introducing a character, immediately establishing dynamics, while also setting the pretext for things that will eventually be important when the action gets high. Thor teams up with Hulk being the big bound muscle crew while Cap gets to do cool reflecting shit in the finale/generally defending people etc. While Iron Man 2's Tony vs Rhodey scene felt like an exhausted obligation, this in comparison was an integrated necessity.
Thanos
He'll be the main baddy in Infinity War a the end of Phase 3, but for the next while, he's just going to be alluded to alot.
bananafactory
Banned
Thanos is in Infinity War?!?
- Status