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[Got the Shakes]

Since it operates on a 'random read' premise, it hasn't been working as well as hoped.

My library is small (~1500 songs) and there is a hangup when selecting tracks outside of smaller playlists. The sequential read and write speeds are fine, albeit slow. My 64GB SanDisk card reads/writes at 30MB/s.

You're better off using an external HD for iTune libraries that are reasonable sized. But if you can deal with a second or two delay when clicking on a random song, you will be fine.

It should be noted that when running a random playlist of your whole library, there is no hang ups when transitioning song-song. Only when selecting individual songs.

Thanks. I backed one of these on Kickstarter and it should ship out in the next few weeks. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342319572/the-nifty-minidrive. It lets you use a Micro SD card as a drive in the SDXC slot. I currently have my iTunes library on a NAS hard drive, but I was looking for a way to carry my iTunes library around with my rMBP. A second or two delay when picking songs I can deal with, and most times I just listen to a big playlist on shuffle anyways.

 

[JayDub]

Apple does render the screen at a higher resolution (not sure on the values) and then scales it down to fit on the 2880x1800 display.

Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? Apple renders the 2880x1800 resolution, and scales it down to fit on whatever setting you have? The poster up there that says that when choosing the 1680x1050 setting, the GPU renders 3360x2100 is wrong, right? The GPU still only renders 2880x1800 pixels.


Again, I understand the way it scales, the 4 for every 1 pixel (on the Best for Retina setting), all that other jazz. Im just trying to get clarification about all these claims of the GPU rendering anything higher than 2880x1800.

 

[TUSR]

Thanks. I backed one of these on Kickstarter and it should ship out in the next few weeks. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1342319572/the-nifty-minidrive. It lets you use a Micro SD card as a drive in the SDXC slot. I currently have my iTunes library on a NAS hard drive, but I was looking for a way to carry my iTunes library around with my rMBP. A second or two delay when picking songs I can deal with, and most times I just listen to a big playlist on shuffle anyways.

If you are running a playlist uninterrupted, you will have zero issues between song transitions automatically. Only manual song choices show latency.

The only problem I see with the kickstart (although the flush aluminium one is giving me an engineer boner) is that Micro SD cards are even slower than SDXC cards.

 

[JayDub]

Im saying exactly that actually, even though I do use a scaled resolution, it shouldn't be this horrible. I've found a few work arounds with Chrome to smooth my scrolling. But I could prepare a video for you guys to demonstrate the difference in the video cards.

Its not the GPU's (integrated or 650m) fault at all. Its all software.

Read this:

Anandtech.

 

[TUSR]

Isn't it supposed to be the other way around? Apple renders the 2880x1800 resolution, and scales it down to fit on whatever setting you have? The poster up there that says that when choosing the 1680x1050 setting, the GPU renders 3360x2100 is wrong, right? The GPU still only renders 2880x1800 pixels.


Again, I understand the way it scales, the 4 for every 1 pixel (on the Best for Retina setting), all that other jazz. Im just trying to get clarification about all these claims of the GPU rendering anything higher than 2880x1800.

3360 × 2100 is what is rendered when you select the 1680x1050 scaled.

Its not the GPU's (integrated or 650m) fault at all. Its all software.

Read this:

Anandtech.

I totally see what you're saying, and I do not disagree in the slightest. But saying the HD4000 is sufficient to drive a 2880x1800 display isn't right.

Chrome is CPU driven correct? If you enable GPU acceleration in Chrome, scrolling lag disappears. So the correlation between scrolling lag and lack of GPU power isn't correct.

 

[Got the Shakes]

If you are running a playlist uninterrupted, you will have zero issues between song transitions automatically. Only manual song choices show latency.

The only problem I see with the kickstart (although the flush aluminium one is giving me an engineer boner) is that Micro SD cards are even slower than SDXC cards.

I bought one more for aesthetics than anything. Being able to use the SDXC slot with something that is flush was what I was looking for. I know the transfer rate of Micro SD isn't good at all, but I figured it was worth trying.

 

[JayDub]

3360 × 2100 is what is rendered when you select the 1680x1050 scaled.

What. Why is the display only rated at 2880x1800? Do we have any second opinions, source, etc?

Doesn't make sense.

 

[TUSR]

What. Why is the display only rated at 2880x1800? Do we have any second opinions, source, etc?

Doesn't make sense.

Numbers don't lie.

 

[JayDub]

I totally see what you're saying, and I do not disagree in the slightest. But saying the HD4000 is sufficient to drive a 2880x1800 display isn't right.

Chrome is CPU driven correct? If you enable GPU acceleration in Chrome, scrolling lag disappears. So the correlation between scrolling lag and lack of GPU power isn't correct.

If scrolling lag disappears with GPU acceleration enabled, wouldn't that mean the correlation *is* correct? Not trying to be a dick, trying to understand what you're saying.

Did you read the article? The 13" MBPr's 4000HD's scrolling lag completely disappeared with the nightly build of WebKit. Going from sub 20FPS to 40-50FPS.

Numbers don't lie.

Thanks for this.

Why is it only advertised for 2880x1800? Thats crazy.

 

[TUSR]

If scrolling lag disappears with GPU acceleration enabled, wouldn't that mean the correlation *is* correct? Not trying to be a dick, trying to understand what you're saying.

Did you read the article? The 13" MBPr's 4000HD's scrolling lag completely disappeared with the nightly build of WebKit. Going from sub 20FPS to 40-50FPS.

The way I was seeing it was that people were directly blaming scrolling lag on the GPU in the Retina lineup.

Its software and CPU problems for the display.

 

[JayDub]

The way I was seeing it was that people were directly blaming scrolling lag on the GPU in the Retina lineup.

Its software and CPU problems for the display.

Ah. Yes, I agree.

 

[nhlducks35]

Thanks for this.

Why is it only advertised for 2880x1800? Thats crazy.

The actual resolution of the screen is only 2880x1880

From Anandtech's review

If you select the 1680 x 1050 or 1920 x 1200 scaling modes, Apple actually renders the desktop at 2x the selected resolution (3360 x 2100 or 3840 x 2400, respectively), scales up the text and UI elements accordingly so they aren’t super tiny (backing scale factor = 2.0), and downscales the final image to fit on the 2880 x 1800 panel. The end result is you get a 3360 x 2100 desktop, with text and UI elements the size they would be on a 1680 x 1050 desktop, all without sacrificing much sharpness/crispness thanks to the massive supersampling. The resulting image isn’t as perfect as it would be at the default setting because you have to perform a floating point filter down to 2880 x 1800, but it’s still incredibly good.

 

[TUSR]

Ah. Yes, I agree.

3840 × 2400 is what it renders are largest resolution. Just wanted to check the numbers for you.

Want me to post the gigantic image for you to get an idea of how large that is?

The actual resolution of the screen is only 2880x1880

From Anandtech's review

Yeah we went over this, it renders a large resolution and scales it. You're bound to 2880x1800 physical pixels.

I really like their explanation of it there though.

 

[LCfiner]

Thanks for this.

Why is it only advertised for 2880x1800? Thats crazy.

because there's physically 2880 x 1800 pixels.

but the "more space" modes render internally at 2X the resolution being displayed (which is why they looks so smooth) but that also means they run choppier than the basic mode. so 1920 x 1200 is actually 3840 x 2400 internal rendering. that's a massive challenge for the hardware they put in there.

 

[TUSR]

I bought one more for aesthetics than anything. Being able to use the SDXC slot with something that is flush was what I was looking for. I know the transfer rate of Micro SD isn't good at all, but I figured it was worth trying.

Well let me know how it turns out when you get it, im curious to see what kind of actual speeds you will get out of it.

 

[JayDub]

because there's physically 2880 x 1800 pixels.

but the "more space" modes render internally at 2X the resolution being displayed (which is why they looks so smooth) but that also means they run choppier than the basic mode. so 1920 x 1200 is actually 3840 x 2400 internal rendering. that's a massive challenge for the hardware they put in there.

Yeah we went over this, it renders a large resolution and scales it. You're bound to 2880x1800 physical pixels.

I really like their explanation of it there though.

I understand this. Thank you.

 

[TUSR]

I understand this. Thank you.

All that being said. Its the best laptop i've ever used and I haven't had any serious regrets about being an early adopter.

 

[JayDub]

All that being said. Its the best laptop i've ever used and I haven't had any serious regrets about being an early adopter.

TUSR, do you use an external monitor for yours at all?

 

[TUSR]

TUSR, do you use an external monitor for yours at all?

I have a 32" Toshiba 1080P TV running beside it through HDMI. Not really a true external monitor.

 

[Ken Masters]

Also, Ken, get your iMac yet? I wonder what you and Gary will think of it.

I changed my iMac order to 27" and it's supposed to deliver 21-28th of this month barring any delays

 

[Iacobellis]

I would have gotten the iMac if it became Retina. Probably in the next couple of years once GPUs get more powerful.

 

[jimmythepage]

There is something weird about this scrolling stuttering thing, I'm deadly sure I didn't notice any on a 15" mbpr at the store where others previously did, I was told by a Genius (lol) they lacked some optimization at the launch, and the latest updates smoothed the situation.
Saw some posts on other online communitiea that say the same.
I haven't encountered the thing at the store so I can't really compare tho

 

[TUSR]

There is something weird about this scrolling stuttering thing, I'm deadly sure I didn't notice any on a 15" mbpr at the store where others previously did, I was told by a Genius (lol) they lacked some optimization at the launch, and the latest updates smoothed the situation.
Saw some posts on other online communitiea that say the same.
I haven't encountered the thing at the store so I can't really compare tho

Retinas launched with Lion. ML optimized a lot of the scroll issues.

 

[Stat Flow]

Well I really hope they iron out these issues when it comes time for the 2013 updates to the MBPr Line AND that 13" either has a dedicated GPU or that the Haswell GPU is really powerful. I would really love the air but I'm going to need quite a bit of graphics prowess.

 

[TUSR]

Well I really hope they iron out these issues when it comes time for the 2013 updates to the MBPr Line AND that 13" either has a dedicated GPU or that the Haswell GPU is really powerful. I would really love the air but I'm going to need quite a bit of graphics prowess.

Top end Haswell chipset is said to have ~2X the rendering power of top end Ivy Bridge.

 

[xxracerxx]

I changed my iMac order to 27" and it's supposed to deliver 21-28th of this month barring any delays

Once it arrives, I want lots of pictures and impressions.

I need to decide if I am going to grab a new 27" iMac or a new Macbook Pro to replace my ancient 2007 Macbook.

 

[kennah]

You guys are making my 2006 MacBook sad

 

[TUSR]

You guys are making my 2006 MacBook sad

You're still getting use out of a 6 year old laptop.

Not sure why sad.

 

[xxracerxx]

You're still getting use out of a 6 year old laptop.

Not sure why sad.

Exactly, I am surprised this 2007 is still working like a charm (besides some stuff).

 

[kennah]

Stuck on Lion/only two touches on the touchpad mean I miss out on a lot of features. Also SATA1 means that the SSD is being quite held back.

Really the biggest issue I have with it lately is that it can't play videos from my iPhone! Doesn't have the power!

 

[xxracerxx]

I am still on Snow Leopard

 

[Iacobellis]

Well I really hope they iron out these issues when it comes time for the 2013 updates to the MBPr Line AND that 13" either has a dedicated GPU or that the Haswell GPU is really powerful. I would really love the air but I'm going to need quite a bit of graphics prowess.

I wouldn't count on next year's 13 inch model to be sufficient enough to match a dedicated GPU. Intel HD 5000(?) will be an improvement, but the extra money for a 7xxM chip from Nvidia in the 15 inch model would be a better buy.

 

[TUSR]

I am still on Snow Leopard

I like you.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I am still on Snow Leopard

You aren't missing much.

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

SandyBridge Macbooks ran very hot. It was a Tock for Intel.

IvyBridge was much better. It was a Tick for Intel.

People said that IGPU, HD4000 was not ready for Retina MBPs.


Do you think that Hashwell, which will be a new Tock, will run very hot? They claim twice the performance of IGPU HD4000. If that's true then that is a massive difference, and I fear for the impact on battery life.

On the other hand, could it mean that Apple will simply get rid of the 650m succesor? If the HD4000 successor is twice as powerful, we are talking at a IGPU that will come close or surpass 10K in 3dmark 06. Thats impressive power, reduces price, heat but will be a drawback in GPU power. But it would be more than enough for photo engineering. Only video editors and gamers would suffer.

When MBP13 went from 320m Nvidia to HD3000, it was a major step back in graphics, so it is not like Apple has not done this before on their Pro line of notebooks.



People say that you should never go with the early adopters, but could this be a situation were we might witness another revision of high temperatures and throttling?


Ivybridge + Kepler have been great as their idle temperatures and low power output have been generous. Fermi was much worse. As was Sandybridge.

Not that Intel is going to a new architecture next year, it might get HOT HOT HOT.

 

[TUSR]

SandyBridge Macbooks ran very hot. It was a Tock for Intel.

IvyBridge was much better. It was a Tick for Intel.

People said that IGPU, HD4000 was not ready for Retina MBPs.


Do you think that Hashwell, which will be a new Tock, will run very hot? They claim twice the performance of IGPU HD4000. If that's true then that is a massive difference, and I fear for the impact on battery life.

On the other hand, could it mean that Apple will simply get rid of the 650m succesor? If the HD4000 successor is twice as powerful, we are talking at a IGPU that will come close or surpass 10K in 3dmark 06. Thats impressive power, reduces price, heat but will be a drawback in GPU power. But it would be more than enough for photo engineering. Only video editors and gamers would suffer.

When MBP13 went from 320m Nvidia to HD3000, it was a major step back in graphics, so it is not like Apple has not done this before on their Pro line of notebooks.



People say that you should never go with the early adopters, but could this be a situation were we might witness another revision of high temperatures and throttling?


Ivybridge + Kepler have been great as their idle temperatures and low power output have been generous. Fermi was much worse. As was Sandybridge.

Not that Intel is going to a new architecture next year, it might get HOT HOT HOT.

Doubtful on a significant increase in heat generation. Ivy Bridge is the first use of 3D transistors, they can only be improved on from here.

You have quite a few exaggerations in your post too.

 

[SeanR1221]

Loving this MacBook Pro. I got the base model (on sale for 1099.99). Someday I'll upgrade to 8GB of memory, but for right now, 4 is fine.

Mountain Lion is cool too. Where is iMessage? I see messages, but not iMessage.

 

[Got the Shakes]

Loving this MacBook Pro. I got the base model (on sale for 1099.99). Someday I'll upgrade to 8GB of memory, but for right now, 4 is fine.

Mountain Lion is cool too. Where is iMessage? I see messages, but not iMessage.

iMessage is built into the Messages app.

 

[TUSR]

Loving this MacBook Pro. I got the base model (on sale for 1099.99). Someday I'll upgrade to 8GB of memory, but for right now, 4 is fine.

Mountain Lion is cool too. Where is iMessage? I see messages, but not iMessage.

That is iMessage. Why don't you use iCloud, sync up your contacts and actually open Messages?

 

[Vigilant Walrus]

Doubtful on a significant increase in heat generation. Ivy Bridge is the first use of 3D transistors, they can only be improved on from here.

You have quite a few exaggerations in your post too.

Sorry, didn't mean to.


Yes, 3D transistors. Good for IGPU, but is that what makes Ivy so much more cooler than Sandy?

 

[TUSR]

Sorry, didn't mean to.


Yes, 3D transistors. Good for IGPU, but is that what makes Ivy so much more cooler than Sandy?

Well Sandy uses a 32nm process with standard double gate transistors.

Ivy uses 3D transistors which allowed a 22nm process.

More powerful, smaller, and less power consumption because of this.

Haswell will use a refined 22nm process and the successor to Haswell is Broadwell then Skylake which will use a 14nm process.

 

[SeanR1221]

That is iMessage. Why don't you use iCloud, sync up your contacts and actually open Messages?

Nothing was there until I opened the contacts app first. Weird.

Anyway to have the bottom right of the track pad AND tapping with two fingers activate a right click? It looks like I can only pick one.

 

[TUSR]

Nothing was there until I opened the contacts app first. Weird.

Anyway to have the bottom right of the track pad AND tapping with two fingers activate a right click? It looks like I can only pick one.

Probably was syncing contacts still.

Your question isn't clear.

 

[SeanR1221]

Probably was syncing contacts still.

Your question isn't clear.

I want to be able to activate a right click by either tapping with two fingers or click the bottom right corner. It's only letting me pick one.

 

[Iacobellis]

SandyBridge Macbooks ran very hot. It was a Tock for Intel.

IvyBridge was much better. It was a Tick for Intel.

People said that IGPU, HD4000 was not ready for Retina MBPs.


Do you think that Hashwell, which will be a new Tock, will run very hot? They claim twice the performance of IGPU HD4000. If that's true then that is a massive difference, and I fear for the impact on battery life.

On the other hand, could it mean that Apple will simply get rid of the 650m succesor? If the HD4000 successor is twice as powerful, we are talking at a IGPU that will come close or surpass 10K in 3dmark 06. Thats impressive power, reduces price, heat but will be a drawback in GPU power. But it would be more than enough for photo engineering. Only video editors and gamers would suffer.

When MBP13 went from 320m Nvidia to HD3000, it was a major step back in graphics, so it is not like Apple has not done this before on their Pro line of notebooks.



People say that you should never go with the early adopters, but could this be a situation were we might witness another revision of high temperatures and throttling?


Ivybridge + Kepler have been great as their idle temperatures and low power output have been generous. Fermi was much worse. As was Sandybridge.

Not that Intel is going to a new architecture next year, it might get HOT HOT HOT.

HD 4000 is fine for basic things on the Retina and some small editing. Most of the issues were the fault of Lion, and have been mostly fixed in Mountain Lion and subsequent updates. I'm sure with 10.9 it will be refined even better, once Retina machines start coming closer to the norm.

 

[The Real Abed]

How has this been working out for you so far? I have a 15" retina as well and haven't gotten around to buying a SDXC card yet.

I'd like to know this too. Won't it wear the card out faster? Or is it really really good?

Also, does anyone know if the MacBook Air (2012) supports SDXC or is it just SD? I had thought it was SDXC but it seems it is only SD. What's the largest size an SD card can be? I have to do more research. At some point I'd like to have 128GB on an SD card that I can use. (Just wait for the day you can buy a 1TB SD card. My god it would be glorious...ly expensive.)

I understand this. Thank you.

Now you can see why it would be suffering more when you set it to a higher "resolution". When I have a Retina Pro I sure as heck ain't gonna run it at the default resolution. I'm gonna take advantage of the option to use a higher setting. (Especially since the 13" RPro has a lower "unit size" than the Air I am using right now. Why downgrade?) Most likely 1680x1050. Hopefully by then the graphics card in the machine will be tasked to handle that resolution without troubles. It renders the screen image at double the size of the setting you choose because it's easier on the scaler and results in zero artifacts. Artifacts being weird lines that appear between images or offsets of images being wrong. It's easier to scale at a whole number than a partial one. Render at 2x scale with 3360x2100 and scale it down. Much easier than rendering everything at 1.1666666666667 scale.

 

[Iacobellis]

I'd like to know this too. Won't it wear the card out faster? Or is it really really good?

Also, does anyone know if the MacBook Air (2012) supports SDXC or is it just SD? I had thought it was SDXC but it seems it is only SD. What's the largest size an SD card can be? I have to do more research. At some point I'd like to have 128GB on an SD card that I can use. (Just wait for the day you can buy a 1TB SD card. My god it would be glorious...ly expensive.)


Now you can see why it would be suffering more when you set it to a higher "resolution". When I have a Retina Pro I sure as heck ain't gonna run it at the default resolution. I'm gonna take advantage of the option to use a higher setting. (Especially since the 13" RPro has a lower "unit size" than the Air I am using right now. Why downgrade?) Most likely 1680x1050. Hopefully by then the graphics card in the machine will be tasked to handle that resolution without troubles. It renders the screen image at double the size of the setting you choose because it's easier on the scaler and results in zero artifacts. Artifacts being weird lines that appear between images or offsets of images being wrong. It's easier to scale at a whole number than a partial one. Render at 2x scale with 3360x2100 and scale it down. Much easier than rendering everything at 1.1666666666667 scale.

So, should I avoid 1680x1050 and just use the default 1440x900? I've been toying around with the machine in Apple Stores and love the extra screen real estate at the higher settings. I get the computer in a couple of weeks and it will be my main machine for editing, web browsing, etc.

 

[The Real Abed]

So, should I avoid 1680x1050 and just use the default 1440x900? I've been toying around with the machine in Apple Stores and love the extra screen real estate at the higher settings. I get the computer in a couple of weeks and it will be my main machine for editing, web browsing, etc.

Seems to be one of those things you have to deal with. Use 1680x1050 for a while and see if it gives you any problems.

 

[freenudemacusers]

How do I get through one night without you
If I had to live without you
What kind of life would that be
Oh I, I need you in my arms
Need you to hold
You're my world, my heart, my soul


So, uh, iPad 4? Where do you recommend I send this for repair? I don't mind 3rd party.

 

[Iacobellis]

Seems to be one of those things you have to deal with. Use 1680x1050 for a while and see if it gives you any problems.

It won't be something I rely on everyday, as I plan to use a 1080p monitor when I am at home.