I've hardly stepped to the side. Just because I didn't bring up these narratives doesn't mean I wasn't right there offering my advice on what I thought you were playing at or grilling batsnacks as much as most while still bringing up my own qualms with Salva, Blarg, Fire, and Roy. I also spent a great deal of time with the discussion on cabbeh and whether we should ignore scum hunting for verifiable information instead. I'm fine with you being suspicious of me and I don't mind having to defend myself but you are writing a slightly different story about me than what actually happened.
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[Mafia] NX Launch Night |OT| Back of the Line!
- Thread starter CzarTim
- Start date
I've hardly stepped to the side. Just because I didn't bring up these narratives doesn't mean I wasn't right there offering my advice on what I thought you were playing at or grilling batsnacks as much as most while still bringing up my own qualms with Salva, Blarg, Fire, and Roy. I also spent a great deal of time with the discussion on cabbeh and whether we should ignore scum hunting for verifiable information instead. I'm fine with you being suspicious of me and I don't mind having to defend myself but you are writing a slightly different story about me than what actually happened.
In this game, I've really been tapping into my Ps and Is
Aside from offering reads on multiple players and either excusing or damning one particular player, I think you are relying too much on the work of one night of PRs doing what they do. I think being complacent as a town is to mafia's benefit, not to their detriment. I'm sorry if you think it is bad that I am eager to kill but the analysis isn't wrong. We have a lot of suspicious characters and I see no reason why we shouldn't narrow the field before our PRs can get to work.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Lemme B and I something for you.
When I come up dead at some point, I just want you to know that I didn't buy into your shit.
When I come up dead at some point, I just want you to know that I didn't buy into your shit.
It appears you read my jokes as some form of darryl esque insult. Did my reference to girls gone wild go over your head as well?
If my claim came under suspicion then you should have burned me because it was the only option. I made it clear in my post why I revealed after initially trying to hide. My issue is with you actually said you believed me and now it's quite the opposite.
I also do question you keeping suspicion up because I think since the reveal I've been a better town player than before. Not even acknowledging this is interesting. Everyone else has only mentioned you being slightly suspicious. I've been the one after you and I'm the one you'd like rid of.
Couple that with behaviours I've pointed out. Some may be my subjective take , definitely not all. That's all I have to say really.
You've posted a lot, and we've had a fair amount of interaction. You've probably had a fair amount of interaction with everybody.
If LaunchPadMacQuack sticks out to me for being overtly aggressive, you stick out to me for buttering up to me a little.
Not that you haven't also spoken against me, but then you make posts where you're like "yeah, Kark, that's a good point, I agree....except for this one part". Really, the overall impression I get of your actions is that you want to push a bunch of buttons and get people in trouble, but stay in the middle, inoffensive as much as possible until the circus animals start humping and fighting to the death.
Not even my #1 GAFia fan RetroMG is being this affirmative or interactive with me, and I find him at a reasonably Town-measured distance. Conversely, not even my mini-nemesis LaunchPadMacAttack dares to concede I'm right sometimes.
You are the tippity-top poster in this thread, and nobody has even thought of voting for you. Nobody remains a Niño lindo in these games. Something is up with you. You are blending.
Are you cutting a promo right now?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I will say that I'm sitting here letting Karkador and Sorian hash this shit out, because if Kark for some reason flips town, I'll have plenty of ammunition to go after Sorian.
It's called staying level headed and not staying dead set on any one course of action if another course of action presents itself that makes more sense with the information at hand. Yes, that probably has helped me blend but L_P spelled it out for you pretty well earlier. This attitude only lets me blend on early days. As time goes on, I'm going to become more interesting to people as early suspects start to dwindle. I'm not here to blend though, I'm here to kill scum and win as soon as possible. I may blend so good on day 1 but day 4, for example, I'm probably prime meat as a lynching candidate and that's if they haven't felt like offing me earlier in a night phase. I want to actually make a difference while I am here and "blending" not sit on my hands and put us at a disadvantage.
I've already said that it wouldn't surprise me if he flips town. You probably think he is scummier than I think he is. After killing a jailer though, I think we still need to make use of this time with another role flip but I would like it to be as inoffensive as possible if it ends up being town again. The only two candidates for that are Kark (who is still sticking to his guns that he is ordinary, so if he flips town, I 100% expect ordinary) or cabbeh. Between the two, I just trust cabbeh more. He played miller right and told us from the start that crucial piece of information, he didn't wait (too long) before revealing it and he certainly didn't do it at a time where he wouldn't believe him at all, when he was already close to a lynch or something. He has been only beneficial to town so far. Kark, on the other hand, made a play that I would only argue was a detriment to town. It was a squidy level gambit right near the start of the game for no reason and it weakened our potential power base from the start. Just from that Kark sounds more scum like than cabbeh.
Past that, if they both end up being town, I'd rather keep the guy who knows how to use his role and keep a level head than the guy who hail marys on weak gambits hoping to catch something in a trap.
No, we need to take the podium away from you. You need to own up to a mistake. The solution to mislynching a power role (a mislynch you certainly, 100% wanted) is not doubling down and going after another player before we've at least had a night phase.
It's Day 1. We made a Town (I guess) PR use his one shot on another Town PR that roleclaimed for no good reason. Do you understand why I said in the beginning of the game that Town makes stupid mistakes because of low information? This is exactly what I was talking about.
The only reason I can think of why you would want to continue on the war path, with essentially the same amount of information, is that you don't care who lives or dies.
I'm just going to dangle your "hammering" of batsnacks in front of you until you stop pretending you're a great player.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
lol
This is why I want to lynch Kark. This guy, as mafia, is dangerous as hell. Took most of the words right out of my mouth.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
OMG LAUNCHPAD SAID SOMETHING BAD ABOUT SOMEONE ELSE
I'm confused, were you not ready to kill batsnacks too? I do believe I remember you telling us all that we should kill him because he is DEAD WEIGHT. I agreed with that line of thought then and I agree with it now, the only thing that has changed is that you are the DEAD WEIGHT so you are fighting back on the point. Which is fine, that is understandable, you'd be a bad mafia player regardless of your alignment if you didn't fight to the end. I own up to my mistake. I voted for a townie, I even helped lead the charge a little bit but this is far from being all on me and even if it was, you're right that I don't care too much. Town dies more often than not on lynches, it's the nature of the game, without those mistakes, you are never going to find scum.
But I don´t really have a need to get rid of you. Right now my stance is a no lynch and every time I have brought you up is as who I´ll rather lynch between you and karkador. If I had an override like power like lone_prodigy did... then I´ll go for Blargonaut.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
No, friend. You came in at the 11th hour with some "I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS" nonsense. The only person who was legit on board from the get-go was Ouro.
Speaking of, he hasn't posted in awhile, which I can only assume means one of two things: he's either feeling a lot of remorse over the town kill (though batsnacks was vigged) or he's acting like it.
no, I don't consider real-world obligations a thing
Yes, I made the argument to let him go, and I put one of the first votes in.
The difference is that batsnacks' utility was already pretty much objectively decided to be wasted, because he roleclaimed early, AND he had a meltdown. It was a bad situation, because no matter what, that move was akin to offing himself. That's not just me making stuff up.
You "hammered" him, silly. If you're so above me in player skill, why'd you not only follow my vote, but buy at least some of my rhetoric, and finish what I started?
The answer is that you don't care.
Uhhhhhh
huh.
No, as much as I hate that he ended up being town, I was on board with Bats based on my own reads. I cited Ouro's reasoning because it matched my own.
Not trying to torpedo myself or Ouro, just ensuring transparency.
Hey, fuck you. One of us was doing vote counts for their game, bear!
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
My point was he was saying he contributed and helped, yet he didn't.
Sorry m8, forgot our games were a thing.
It's one thing to hop onto a vote for a player that is pretty much dead anyway. Those votes leading up to the majority may or may not include mafia players, I'm not sure. It certainly didn't help that Blarg was ping-ponging around and confusing the fuck out of everything - but what is certain is that Sorian was convinced he was taking the decisive action to put batsnacks away. That's different from throwing a vote on someone, and it's different from sitting on a vote until the time ends and seeing what happens - that's decisive action, especially for the player who is arguably the most on top of the game.
Blargonaut
Banned
Hold fast, Karkador
For just a few hours more, steady on
Blargonaut
Banned
Your Care Package is inbound
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Hold fast, Karkador
For just a few hours more, steady on
Are you the clown, Kark's the kid, and... I'm the dad?
What?
I'm sorry
Are
We
Reading
The
Same
Thread?
But no, you're right, I showed up at the 11th hour to steal the glory. /s
Blargonaut
Banned
brb sleep
No, the answer is that a lot of your rhetoric was right, you just don't like that it applies to you now. You roleclaimed early. You've created a bad situation around yourself. You've become dead weight to the town by outing yourself as a useless role. And now you are trying to swing it back at me because because the same rules are catching up to you and a lot of this town isn't interested in a no lynch.
Blargonaut
Banned
Also, do not turbo Karkador, please. Let's be civilized about this.
You're right, I did put in the last vote, I wanted to see what would happen if I voted for you and brought things closer to a tie and roy said something that interested me which made me want to flip bat's role PM and see if he was mafia because if he was, I saw a thread leading back to roy.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
lol I'm following the thread just fine.
I'm not saying you came to steal the glory. I'm saying you're now saying that you helped hammer in the vote. You didn't do that. You jumped on when the train was picking up speed.
Also, I know you posted this before my quotes but I can go back and grab more if you want, I got bored of looking but I was only about halfway through day 1 part 1.
It's not the same, and your insistence on making it look the same worries me.
Why you wanna throw a Town member under the bus, Sorian? What is the downside to waiting until tomorrow? We've already got our mandatory Day 1 kill. Why are you trying to push Town to doing more self-destructive things? "Town members are gonna die anyway" is not an excuse.
It's no surprise that I was going to go to bats if his vote ever actually picked up speed. I was even disappointed earlier:
I wanted a vote towards batsnacks but it didn't seem likely with Kark or you on the table. I never hinted that anyone seemed more scummy than him. I just thought that a Kark day 1 vote was just as good because I was still acting under the pretense that he would override someone at the end of the day and if he didn't he would flip ordinary or scum. Once it became more obvious that I could actually try to lynch my scum candidate, damn right I was all aboard.
Town members are going to die anyway and your defense sounds scummier and scummier as we go along. You're trying to make me feel bad and make me feel like exactly what I'm doing is wrong. I'm still heavily in the camp that you are going to flip ordinary or scum and I'm willing to risk a vanilla townie for a possible scum kill. The downside of waiting until tomorrow is you are another topic of discussion all day long when we could be moving on to something else.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
huh
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Kark, quick - are you mafia?
Nope
Yes.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
After all the shit you've pulled, why should I believe you?
So I said if batsnacks flipped town I'd revisit the Kark discussion.
We've got three pretty strong players currently hashing it out - Sorian, Kark, and Launch (though most of the argument against Launch was prior to batsnacks getting Beckied). I've never played a non-ONUW game with Kark, so I'd have to go check the original Mafia thread, but both Sorian and Launch are posting relatively the same as they normally do, so that's not really a metric I can use - which is fine. Just pointing it out.
Anyway...
1) Kark
Kark's original gambit was ridiculous. I mean, it was ridiculous in both a good and a bad way. Good in that it got people talking and was able to potentially draw in some scum (unfortunately the one we picked was just ineffective town), and bad in that he roleclaimed on the first day with a target on his back. It's difficult to reconcile these two scenarios, with the third in that he's a power role trying to keep mafia from lynching him at night.
He keeps mentioning both short- and long-term implications to his gambit, which we've yet to see (well, maybe we've seen the short-term, it just didn't work as expected).
It wasn't until post 1125 that Kark shifted his focus from Launchpad to batsnacks, I assume prompted by the argument batsnacks and I were having, as well as finally realizing the futility of arguing the cabbeh point. Granted at this point, I don't see it as a bandwagon, considering there was quite a long time from when I started going after him and when Kark jumped on.
That said, Kark has remained really...aloof this whole game. He's acting with real confidence, which makes me think that he has us where he wants us and is toying with us. He's yet to really go on the defensive, despite the countless efforts of Sorian and Launch. He didn't really dig into batsnacks when he roleclaimed either - I'd think a townie would be a bit more exasperated at the ludicrous attempt to claim. Granted, Blarg did his weird-ass Nic Cage post in between, but still.
Eventually he did, but it took a while.
It all boils down to this - if Kark is town, NFA has no idea if he is telling the truth or not about his role, so they make take a chance and lynch him tonight. If Kark is NFA, we aren't going to figure that out today.
2) LaunchpadMcQ
As of this post, I don't think Launch is scum. Don't take that as fact, because it isn't. While I took the one side of Kark's argument, Launch took the other, and with good reason. As I said before, it was a ridiculous gambit. I'm happy someone disagreed with me, because it gives us more of a chance to hash it all out and hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I do question his initial vote for Kark, though. It was reactionary, and the vote came before any sort of discussion or even any reactions. Literally the next post, two minutes after Kark claimed. Since then, Launch has homed in on Kark, not even really considering batsnacks until post 603. He's been in the spotlight for most of Day, only really getting a slight reprieve when Kark decided to tackle Sorian. If Launch is scum, he's doing a pretty good job at hiding it, I think.
3) Sorian
Sorry, Sorian, but I'm a little bit with Kark on your reluctance to put your foot down on batsnacks. Yes, you had some input long before the final bout of voting, but most (not all) of your comments were about the situation between batsnacks, Kark, and Launch rather than directly at batsnacks. You did put a vote on him relatively early (the fourth person to do so), though, so you at least had him in the back of your mind for a bit.
You were the hammer on batsnacks, though I chalk that up to exasperation with the situation - hell I was even asking you and Launch to switch your votes just so the madness would end. I don't necessarily hold that against you, but it is something to consider, because it is something that scum would do if they realized that their target had roleclaimed jailer. You also had been ambivalent about lynching either him or Kark, so it is interesting that you actually made a decision at the end.
Short version: I lean town on Sorian, just barely, but I put him just above Launchpad and just below Karkador in suspicion.
Other notes
cabbeh - We have to lynch him sooner or later. NFA won't do it, and an investigation won't help. I don't necessarily see a reason to do it today, as long as he contributes to the discussion.
SalvaPot - Salva's been acting really weird all game. Something is just off about his posting. I noted it early on, and my opinion hasn't changed.
Lone_Prodigy - For all intents and purposes, L_P is an Ordinary Kid (or Ordinary Game Store Clerk, or whatever) after using his one shot. I definitely don't think we'll be able to determine what he is unless we lynch Kark (which, even then, is still only a maybe), or get an investigation on him.
We've got three pretty strong players currently hashing it out - Sorian, Kark, and Launch (though most of the argument against Launch was prior to batsnacks getting Beckied). I've never played a non-ONUW game with Kark, so I'd have to go check the original Mafia thread, but both Sorian and Launch are posting relatively the same as they normally do, so that's not really a metric I can use - which is fine. Just pointing it out.
Anyway...
1) Kark
Kark's original gambit was ridiculous. I mean, it was ridiculous in both a good and a bad way. Good in that it got people talking and was able to potentially draw in some scum (unfortunately the one we picked was just ineffective town), and bad in that he roleclaimed on the first day with a target on his back. It's difficult to reconcile these two scenarios, with the third in that he's a power role trying to keep mafia from lynching him at night.
He keeps mentioning both short- and long-term implications to his gambit, which we've yet to see (well, maybe we've seen the short-term, it just didn't work as expected).
It wasn't until post 1125 that Kark shifted his focus from Launchpad to batsnacks, I assume prompted by the argument batsnacks and I were having, as well as finally realizing the futility of arguing the cabbeh point. Granted at this point, I don't see it as a bandwagon, considering there was quite a long time from when I started going after him and when Kark jumped on.
That said, Kark has remained really...aloof this whole game. He's acting with real confidence, which makes me think that he has us where he wants us and is toying with us. He's yet to really go on the defensive, despite the countless efforts of Sorian and Launch. He didn't really dig into batsnacks when he roleclaimed either - I'd think a townie would be a bit more exasperated at the ludicrous attempt to claim. Granted, Blarg did his weird-ass Nic Cage post in between, but still.
Eventually he did, but it took a while.
It all boils down to this - if Kark is town, NFA has no idea if he is telling the truth or not about his role, so they make take a chance and lynch him tonight. If Kark is NFA, we aren't going to figure that out today.
2) LaunchpadMcQ
As of this post, I don't think Launch is scum. Don't take that as fact, because it isn't. While I took the one side of Kark's argument, Launch took the other, and with good reason. As I said before, it was a ridiculous gambit. I'm happy someone disagreed with me, because it gives us more of a chance to hash it all out and hopefully get to the bottom of it.
I do question his initial vote for Kark, though. It was reactionary, and the vote came before any sort of discussion or even any reactions. Literally the next post, two minutes after Kark claimed. Since then, Launch has homed in on Kark, not even really considering batsnacks until post 603. He's been in the spotlight for most of Day, only really getting a slight reprieve when Kark decided to tackle Sorian. If Launch is scum, he's doing a pretty good job at hiding it, I think.
3) Sorian
Sorry, Sorian, but I'm a little bit with Kark on your reluctance to put your foot down on batsnacks. Yes, you had some input long before the final bout of voting, but most (not all) of your comments were about the situation between batsnacks, Kark, and Launch rather than directly at batsnacks. You did put a vote on him relatively early (the fourth person to do so), though, so you at least had him in the back of your mind for a bit.
You were the hammer on batsnacks, though I chalk that up to exasperation with the situation - hell I was even asking you and Launch to switch your votes just so the madness would end. I don't necessarily hold that against you, but it is something to consider, because it is something that scum would do if they realized that their target had roleclaimed jailer. You also had been ambivalent about lynching either him or Kark, so it is interesting that you actually made a decision at the end.
Short version: I lean town on Sorian, just barely, but I put him just above Launchpad and just below Karkador in suspicion.
Other notes
cabbeh - We have to lynch him sooner or later. NFA won't do it, and an investigation won't help. I don't necessarily see a reason to do it today, as long as he contributes to the discussion.
SalvaPot - Salva's been acting really weird all game. Something is just off about his posting. I noted it early on, and my opinion hasn't changed.
Lone_Prodigy - For all intents and purposes, L_P is an Ordinary Kid (or Ordinary Game Store Clerk, or whatever) after using his one shot. I definitely don't think we'll be able to determine what he is unless we lynch Kark (which, even then, is still only a maybe), or get an investigation on him.
I think it's going to be important to answer this even though I think its a useless detail now that we know that batsnacks was telling the truth (mostly). You are right that I didn't care which way my vote was going to go at the end, I mad ethe voting more even to see how people would flip flop in the last few moments to avoid a tie and then roy said this:
It was extremely minute but it was something that I could work from if bats came up mafia. The reason I found the post interesting is because both Ouro and I had come up with two different scenarios why waking up with a cigarette could mean something completely unrelated to being jailed. Yes, I know Tim said the flavor was silly and not to read to much into it, but, at the end of the day, his flavor does make sense. I though Ouro's poisoner idea or my arsonist type idea made just as much sense and I thought it was weird that roy was just going to 100% accept that waking up with a cigarette meant bats claim was a-ok and we could move on. It was small, it ended up not mattering, and it could have just been roy missing a few posts while skimming but I like having fresh leads going into a new day and things to think about during the night phase and this was going to be a link I could explore if bats turned up the way I expected him too.
So, yes, I was ambivalent on who was going to win the vote because it didn't matter to me which of them was going to go because I could see a case for either being scum, but roy gave me a little link if bats turned out to be the scum so I decided it would be better to tackle bats before Kark.
So basically, whatever flips, you're happy? Yes, of course you are. Mind you, hoping for an override is also just hoping for even more destruction.
Which reminds me about how you cheered when L_P announced two people were dying - and you thought one of those might have had an override, too? Sorian basically just wants to watch the world burn, I take it.
Maybe even worse than Mafia? Serial killer?
I invite any investigator out there to look at me at night, should I make it there.
It's not a PR and it might be scum? Yes, whatever flips from ordinary or scum makes me very happy.
lol no, I'm not a serial killer but I'll be happy to revisit that suspicion if we actually see two deaths in a night.
And sure, we could send an investigator to look at you but then that leaves a bunch of other people they don't get to look at - Salva, Blarg, Launch, Fireblend, roy, myself, all people that had varying levels of suspicion on them. We could just flip you and shrink that list by 1, I'm not the only one who thinks you could be scum obviously. And what do they do if they investigate you and find something one way or they other? I don't want them to claim based on just you and they are 1 voice among 12 (13? 11? depending on other factors), them checking you tonight does not make you any less of a conversation piece tomorrow.
Well, the things I've pointed out about Sorian are true, and based on his own behavior - not any sort of claim based on my own role or supposed information. This could mean I'm wrong, of course, but it should also mean I'm not lying or bluffing about some secret info. I've got nothing but the things in the thread.
For that matter, the things I pointed out about batsnacks were also true - I was just wrong in thinking his claim was too bad to be real.
As for today, I feel like we're done. The Day 1 already lynch happened, because even though a PR executed him, batsnacks was the winning vote anyhow. This extra 24 hours is weird, and it's too easy to rush to a second judgment with more or less the same set of information.
People think that I'm going to suddenly disappear as a person of interest on Day 2, and I simply disagree...unless I die N1. Day 2 will be another day of questions, and I'm going to be ready to answer them.
The only trust you have to extend to me is that lynching me today makes the least amount of sense. That's it.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Before I start answering, none of what you've said is about you.
The things you've said about Sorian are true, yes, but that proves nothing about yourself. The only thing you're doing is picking Sorian apart and trying to skate through this day without a real eviction.
You keep talking about lynching like it's this great evil, "makes the least amount of sense", but it's necessary. People are going to die; that's fact. Through lynching, the town makes the choice, not the mafia. That's the difference. We waste this opportunity that we have, and we've relinquished our right to choose.
Besides which, all the logic you've used to justify a no-lynch day 1 can be said about any subsequent day; you have no guarantees that we'll have more information day 2. Yet, I'm 100% sure you won't be spouting that when day 2 rolls around. This is just stalling.
As for you specifically, I don't know what I see in your posts that nobody else sees, but my gut is telling me you're mafia and I'm going to stick to that unless gives me a batsnacks metldown-tier reason.