LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
oh shit
Guys guys. It just hit me. The mafia have an information gathering role too. That's why I exist.
Guys guys. It just hit me. The mafia have an information gathering role too. That's why I exist.
[Mafia] NX Launch Night |OT| Back of the Line!
- Thread starter CzarTim
- Start date
Yesterday, cabot. You went full bore yesterday. You've since backed off but still. You really jumped on me there.
I was just answering where the Becky flavor came from. I think that was your question?
I'll bite, what does this mean? I think it's fairly obvious that you exist to fuck with the watcher and the tracker, if roy is telling the truth.
Because it came out of nowhere, you've not once hinted at suspicion on me before today, very much the opposite direction in fact.
I'm to accept that glaring contradiction without a quick rebuttal?
I forgot to say something back to this, on the flip side, what's fun about incontinence guy (also, guy, not kid)? I'm ok listening to Tim and trying not to glean anything from role names.
That was a joke observation than an actual point, I'm afraid.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
sorry, I misunderstood.
Yes, but why else would anyone think it's a good idea to stick something so anti-town as a town role? Because it has a double-edged nature. And besides Burbeting, who has admitted to having a role that can see activity?
Now you might be thinking, well what about the Miller? Yet, there was a specific set of circumstances where the Miller would not have hurt us - if Fireblend had managed to swap his alignment and Karkador had investigated him, Cabot would have turned up town. It's a ridiculously specific set of circumstances, but it could work to thwart it's entire purpose.
Similarly, you expect there to be multiple layers to a single role, which is why I'm now believing that there is more to my role than screwing with one single player. Also, the same could be said your the Rich Kid role.
I think Roy is telling the truth about his role ability and title, yet lying about his alignment.
After all, Drone Kid? Sounds like an elitist prick who doesn't even like video games.
You never know, someone might take it to heart and run with it.
Scum gets much fewer players and even fewer PRs than town. Town can get away with having anti-town roles (sleepwalker and miller) more so than scum can. So that being said, what is the utility of a scum-aligned tracker? Sniffing out power roles for kills? Sure, I could see that, the issue is there is at least one false positive in myself with the licking and then another with you if you are telling the truth. I'm not trying to say that scum needs all of their powers to be all powerful (har har) but out of the PRs that visit each night (ignoring the scum kill) we have me licking, bats jailing, fire fucking something up, kark checking alignment, burb watching, and launch trying not to pee on someone, removing Fire actually (since this scenario is built around a scum tracker, he would obviously know what Fire is doing each night) that does only give 2 false positives out of 5, hmm I could actually see the purpose of a scum tracker then.
The reason I found his claim weak to begin with is because the only thing he really "tracked" was my lick which is just something that a scum Darryl could have told him anyway. His day 1 and day 2 tracking were the easiest lies to come up with if they were lies "oh, I followed two confirmed ordinary kids, they didn't do anything" THANKS FOR THAT AWESOME INFO.
Idk, I'm still trying to work through this myself, my vote is on Time but that is more for the sake of spreading even votes at the moment (though I do now notice Time hasn't gotten in yet to update the sheet so I was forgetting that roy has a vote on him too) but I've hardly dropped my lines of thought on Darryl or roy. And to a lesser extent, my suspicion of Launch.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Actually, the main reason that an information-gathering mafia role would exist is to improve their lies.
I'm more used to seeing scum roles being there for utility as opposed to just helping them come up with a cover story.
I can feel Kark somewhere judging me for meta discussion.
Regardless though, I'm not sure I even believe the tracker claim at all and because of that, I haven't even put much thought into whether a true tracker would be scum or town. I feel like Time responded well to me putting a random vote on him and I'm about ready to switch my vote back to Darryl, the issue is that I don't want to just vote for Darryl based only on the want for information (if he's town, it would mean that roy has to be a tracker) but also because I truly believe he might flip scum.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
There's still utility in it, though, but it effectively ends up selling their towniness.
I can almost guarantee there is an information role mafia-side. It may not be Roy, but it's someone. I'm not going to pretend to know how Tim thinks, but I feel like this is just common sense considering the nature of some of these roles. Also, keep in mind we haven't seen any effects from another mafia PR. Whatever is left, it's definitely passive or has niche utility.
I can almost guarantee there is an information role mafia-side. It may not be Roy, but it's someone. I'm not going to pretend to know how Tim thinks, but I feel like this is just common sense considering the nature of some of these roles. Also, keep in mind we haven't seen any effects from another mafia PR. Whatever is left, it's definitely passive or has niche utility.
Aforementioned opinion swing on me, trying to throw some cloud my way, I react to it and put a vote on him to pressure a response because it's end game and it's a powerful move.
Follows up with a weak backtrack.
Insinuation that I'm getting by easy and avoiding suspicion.
1) Creative retelling where he ignored the inital throwaway line without any reasoning behind it and even weaker backtrack when I questioned him on it.
2) Offensive apparently means contradicting previous statements, again painting roy and I as the wrong party, hounding the poor innocent Time.
3) Oh I'm jumping on a train now, I know he's going to die and nothing stops the lynch. Not even say unvoting and giving a detailed opinion on everyone.
4) More deflection onto roy and I, even more deflection onto me.
I question the post on the merit of well I fucking made a post with my feelings and how I'm basically all over the place and unsure, which he quotes directly and then upon my question of 'did you read this?'
Oh right, yesterday. Notice how there's no mention of 'yesterday' or what happened after yesterday in the big rant on me above. It's all me going ruthlessly in on Time, my bloodlust so strong, he's a goner. Except when I bring up a very valid point about posting after this and unvoting, at which it's all about yesterday. Again making me look like some bloodthirsty wolfie.
Time you're baiting me hard and it's working. It's working because its the endgame and it's a tight situation where the mafia have the upper hand.
Am I supposed to apologize for acting on this scummy behaviour? If it ends with me lynched, so be it. I'm hoping it's transparent enough to give others insight for the last lynch.
If you switch the lynch to me, you've done impressive work. I'm struggling to see how this is a beneficial play for a townie to make.
Perhaps you can enlighten me.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
The possibility of scum with tracking abilities is interesting. I was pretty set on the fact that we had one more town PR, but that may have been wishful thinking since we lost so many already. So roy claiming tracker makes sense, and neither Time nor Darryl counter-claimed. The lack of useful information could be explained by the fact he had no info so he didn't want to claim yet (as opposed to Burb delivering us his claim and scum).
Considering how strong Fireblend was, maybe roy is the only other scum?
Time seems to be playing like a poor man's Launchpad.
Considering how strong Fireblend was, maybe roy is the only other scum?
Time seems to be playing like a poor man's Launchpad.
Damn, lol
I mean, I've bounced back and forth on how many scum are left because Fire was a really strong role. It's also why I find it odd that Fire seems to have performed the kill when he had so many other abilities to use, at the very least, he could have taken a shot in the dark on a role block and then just allowed a partner to kill. But yeah, when I asked earlier, I think only Launch answered and he said 2. I'm operating under the assumption of one, find the most obvious and see if the game ends, if not then no harm done, now to find the next one.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I'm not sure whether to be offended or honored. I'll conform to the former.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Edited this based on what everyone has claimed. 5 Ordinaries make sense. Town seems quite strong, with a watcher, jailer, cop, one-shot vig, and alleged tracker and one-shot bulletproof. Is that balanced out by the lack of a doctor?
Maybe Tim wanted a scenario where the watcher, tracker, Sorian, Launch, and Fireblend all acted on a single target at night, similar to what happened to Ouro on N1. Imagine the shenanigans if Burb reports seeing 4 people visit his target?
Can't really say town lacked a doctor though, they just got a jailor instead. The scenario you present at the end is certainly possible but I doubt anything was designed around assuming that would happen, it would be very coincidental without a lightning rod in play. A lot of arguments seem to come back to roy being a scum tracker.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Again, no insight into Tim's mind, but I've seen this done before. I'm not a fan of it.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Also, saying that our roles weren't designed with that express purpose in mind supports my reasoning that Sorian and I are also here to throw off another role.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I mean, I don't doubt that there could be another role but, at least for myself, I have a rule in place that I HAVE to place a lick each night. This matches up with there being a watcher which is obviously confirmed. There could be another role meant to be confused by my night action but we've already seen one, there's nothing indicating that there has to be two.
You know what? Everything seems to stem from roy, I don't believe his tracker claim at all. Launch and Darryl have both brought up the possibility of a scum tracker. L_P seems to think that a scum tracker would make more sense from a balancing perspective. Time and cabot are the only two that I don't remember saying one way or another what they've thought about the claim (I'm sure they said something and I'm sure they will pop in and correct me but I'm just too last at the moment to go back and find posts). But even without those two, that's 4 people who aren't feeling this role claim out of the 6 who could argue it.
That, of course, doesn't put us in a new place or anything, either scum is helping us downplay roy's claim or roy is scum and his partner is just hopping on and off the train so that later they can say they went after roy too if he flips but it just seems like so much is wrong with roy's claim to me.
VOTE: roytheone
(He won't be around for awhile I assume, don't just suddenly turbo him).
I'm just utterly stumped as to what metrics you're using to find people scum if you're completely ignoring voting. Just hoping they crack?
Has Sorian demonstrated any use of being personally able to control his licks? He says that he is forced to lick someone? How do we know it isn't above him, which would make the most sense in this scenario? If we look at Launch's claimed role with any validity, he doesn't have control over who he visits either.
Where did this come from? No one even talked about you in depth on this page.
Launch also doesn't know who he visits, I obviously do know who I visited and, except for today, I've always posted right at day opening with the name of the person I visited. I mean this is dumb logic though, if you are town, you should be worried about missing scum today not hunting down a neutral, if you need to know that I have agency over my lick for some reason then, easy enough, I give a name at the end of the day and they wake up with a cowlick tomorrow. I'm not worried about a roleblocker anymore so I don't think anything can stop this tongue.
The strong town could be counterbalanced by a mafia member who is forced to draw attention to himself. I'm pointing out to Cabot that it isn't proof you aren't mafia just because you guys hit the same target, since you appear to have demonstrated no real control over the ability. No one else has claimed neutral so I'm stepping off. Don't think you're exempt from scrutiny because you can lick people. That's way too ridiculous for me to go along with.
Mostly at cabot and LP.
I'm tired of defending myself. Not sure how much more clear I can be.
she's excited to get her grandson a new nintendo. hayden is gonna love it so much.
If the bolded is all you've got then I'll have to disappoint you tomorrow. I'll be licking Time or Launch. I give two on the off chance one of them is voted off after I give this statement. If someone other than those two is voted off then my choice is Launch for sure. Boom, sense of agency for my actions.
Is anyone else super turned on by this
Also, whoa whoa wait. The strong town would be counterbalanced by a mafia member fumbling around in the dark each night? Is that how we balance gameplay? We see that one side is strong so we weaken the other side even more?
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
This is all I've ever dreamed for in a role, being able to lick with reckless abandon. I tried to let you experience it but NFA lived up to their name and destroyed my fun
Strong mafia I mean. You know the guy with 3 PRs in one.
Oh ok, better and fair then. You'll understand that the typo was confusing there since this town is no slouch either. They were theoretically strong until their two main PRs went down day 1.
You fumbled with your words here too. You simultaneously claimed you will be licking Launch or Time, and Launch for sure.
Do I need I need to continue my joke from yesterday and bing something for you again?
I'll walk it step by step though. I will be licking TIME OR LAUNCH.
The reason I list both is because ONE OF THEM MAY DIE BY LYNCH TODAY.
If NEITHER dies by lynch then I will be choosing LAUNCH.
In summary, Launch will wake up with a cowlick unless we vote to lynch him today then Time will wake up with a cowlick. Scum can dick around and kill my intended target but that would still prove the same point because then NO ONE would wake up with a cowlick.
Right. But you said if anyoneother than those 2 gets lynched, not if one of them.
In the chance we evict me tonight, you are claiming to lick
1. Launch "for sure"
2. Time or Launch
The only way what you're saying makes sense is if you knew the night target too, which you couldn't unless you were mafia.
In the chance we evict me tonight, you are claiming to lick
1. Launch "for sure"
2. Time or Launch
The only way what you're saying makes sense is if you knew the night target too, which you couldn't unless you were mafia.
What the hell are you talking about, I'm talking about the lynch Darryl, you know, this voting thing that we do during every day phase? I don't care who mafia kills tonight, if they kill the person I licked then no one wakes up with a cowlick, that still proves the same point. In no way does my plan revolve around knowing or caring who the mafia kills tonight because it doesn't matter to me as long as it's not me.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Roy, you smarmy fuck.
I think Ive found the proof as to why Roys role has to be mafia. Take into consideration who we saw perform the N1 kill - Fireblend. Our initial thought was, well, why Fireblend? He seems like a role that could be better suited elsewhere.
But, look at his PM:
These are two one-shot abilities where, if they were town-sided, most people would have to guess or randomly choose a target. Instead of doing that, the mafia told Fireblend to carry out the kill. Thats because they were waiting until they had more information in order to use either of these two abilities. Of course, they could get this information from just hearing the conversations from the day phase, but then why not save up Fireblends ability and put him at risk?
That would be because the mafia have an ability that lets them detect who uses abilities, and in order to best utilize Fireblends (and their potential other members abilities), they would benefit greatly from having more information before carrying out these actions. It was absolutely certain that they would have more information later on, so they allowed Fireblend to use up his night action.
Yet, the question would be, who is this player? You would expect that such a player would remain hidden for a prolonged period of time - and so he has, and its only now, that hes come forth to hide in plain sight. And that person is
VOTE: roytheone
I think Ive found the proof as to why Roys role has to be mafia. Take into consideration who we saw perform the N1 kill - Fireblend. Our initial thought was, well, why Fireblend? He seems like a role that could be better suited elsewhere.
But, look at his PM:
These are two one-shot abilities where, if they were town-sided, most people would have to guess or randomly choose a target. Instead of doing that, the mafia told Fireblend to carry out the kill. Thats because they were waiting until they had more information in order to use either of these two abilities. Of course, they could get this information from just hearing the conversations from the day phase, but then why not save up Fireblends ability and put him at risk?
That would be because the mafia have an ability that lets them detect who uses abilities, and in order to best utilize Fireblends (and their potential other members abilities), they would benefit greatly from having more information before carrying out these actions. It was absolutely certain that they would have more information later on, so they allowed Fireblend to use up his night action.
Yet, the question would be, who is this player? You would expect that such a player would remain hidden for a prolonged period of time - and so he has, and its only now, that hes come forth to hide in plain sight. And that person is
VOTE: roytheone
All it does is show Darryl that I have agency over my ability. I'll lick Launch, unless he gets voted out during this day phase. If that is the case, then I'll lick TIme instead. That's all there is to it.
-----------
roy one away from a turbo.
UNVOTE
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Hmm, it could explain why roy has zero results: he can only track or kill and has been killing the last two nights. He kills squidy because there's no sense in tracking anymore and we're already at each others' throats. He probably didn't believe squidy being an Ordinary Kid and pegged him as a PR.
Maybe we have been looking at this wrong: instead of trying to draw links between two scum players, maybe there's only one on their own.
Maybe we have been looking at this wrong: instead of trying to draw links between two scum players, maybe there's only one on their own.
Ok, so this is under the assumption that roy has to choose to either kill or track each night and that he can't do both in the same night? I mean, sure, it's a thought they could have had but why bother? What's the harm in having Fire just role block someone at random? He isn't going to accidently hit a teammate obviously and hitting anyone is about the same as tracking first. Tracking would just let you know that you've found a PR but then, they could just kill the PR instead of suppressing it with roleblocking. We are giving a lot of power to Fire, which is true, he was powerful, but he lost his best ability when Kark died. They would have known that when they were planning night 1 as well.
Bingo. The new issue comes up though, roy knew who I licked last night, if he can only track or only kill then how did he know?