-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
MAG |OT| 256-Player Battles, Lots of Teamwork, Not So Much Auto-Aim
- Thread starter J-Rzez
- Start date
BattleMonkey
Member
Damn shotgun nerf was so fucking stupid. Now feels like a waste of points. I can sometimes kill a person at 15 feet with a single shot, and sometimes at about 5 feet I can hit someone 3 times and it won't fall. The damage is so random that it's not worth it anymore, why would I use a weapon that has no set range and is pure luck?
I still don't get the complaining from damn near 100m the AR is putting bullets within 3-4 bullets width of eachother down the iron sights, and within 1-2 feet of eachother from the hip.
Down the sights, I can hit what Im aiming at...Im sorry, what exactly do you people want?
You cannot snipe with an AR in real life...ever, and you cannot group bullets from the hip, ever.
Even the pistol is still accurate at 50m...
If you wanna snipe a sniper, use a sniper rifle.
Down the sights, I can hit what Im aiming at...Im sorry, what exactly do you people want?
You cannot snipe with an AR in real life...ever, and you cannot group bullets from the hip, ever.
Even the pistol is still accurate at 50m...
If you wanna snipe a sniper, use a sniper rifle.
GodofWine said:
videogame vs real life debate again? I just want my carefully aimed single-shot in a videogame to be 100% accurate as in every other shooter known to man (while keeping the recoil/damage/autoaim model different and unique), what exactly do Zipper people want? I mean, 3 betas and 2 months and now they figure out they need to add a random algorithm to the shooting mechanics of every weapon but snipers? why do you make me play and love the betas for months so I buy the damn game and then you just decide all of that was basically wrong? fuck you Zipper.
edit: looking back to the MAG betas... nobody complained that well aimed shots were hitting the targets with accuracy, nobody! on the contrary it was all praise about the shooting mechanics feeling so much better than the rest of shooters!! then retail game came and with it the hordes of noobs that only play for a couple of weeks and then leave for the "next big thing", they cried about how they exposed their full body while sniping and where getting owned at long range by well-aimed shots from other weapons, if you're sniping don't let me see you from that far, it's only your fault if I'm able to nail your head from far away, can't believe Zipper jumped in to try and protect you.
PedroLumpy
Member
J-Rzez said:
That's just it, you can't place your shots better. It's out of your hands where the first shot out of your gun goes now.
---
I understand the LMG was overpowered, before the patch I could essentially just hold down the trigger on anyone at a distance and they'd die. But now I can't even plink someone to death with carefully aimed and controlled single shots at a distance, or even up close for guys sticking their heads out behind cover. It's bonkers.
As for the shotgun, I only got around to trying it once I was on Valor, so maybe it's just that one, but wow is it terrible. So much so I wouldn't be surprised if it's a bug.
BattleMonkey
Member
patsu said:
Lucky him, but it's still random as fuck. The shotgun used to be consistent, it was not even remotely overpowered. Now it's all luck as the spread on it seems to not have any consistency on it.
weekend_warrior
Banned
GodofWine said:
You know, I didn't understand what the bitching was about either, then I put a reflex sight on my Sver AR and the weird bullet swerving started to happen. I'll be taking that off and opting for the 4x sight again. I guess I didn't notice the difference since I haven't used a reflex sight on an AR since the game first came out.
Didn't the patch release notes say they removed the accuracy bonus from the reflex sights? It's not like they added an actual "bullet swerve algorithm"
I'd suggest everybody try the 4x sight if you want to snipe with the AR.
BattleMonkey
Member
faridmon said:
Well those without headsets can't hear you very well compared to those with head sets, and since you can only talk to your squad unless your a high level leader, it limits who you can discuss with.
bullets are random with or without reflex sights, there's another video showing the same randomization algorithm shooting an assault rifle down the iron sights (no reflex), I don't need no videos anyway, I tested the patch for hours myself, then I just put the game on the shelf and will never come back to it unless it's fixed, what a way of lying to your userbase, 5 months of beta/retail game and all of sudden *boom* forget about aiming! everything is random! enjoy your run and gun!
I'm not buying DLC or anything Zipper related anymore, can't trust these guys they might put a good game you like and ruin it with a silly and embarrassing "fix" any day when you're already hooked, what a fucking disgrace. Snipers, are you happy now?
I'm not buying DLC or anything Zipper related anymore, can't trust these guys they might put a good game you like and ruin it with a silly and embarrassing "fix" any day when you're already hooked, what a fucking disgrace. Snipers, are you happy now?
weekend_warrior
Banned
Lince said:
Meh, whatever. I don't play the game by shooting walls and using a ruler to see how far the bullets missed, I play the game by shooting other people, and the AR still works pretty well for that. I'll keep playing.
Lince said:
i still don't understand what all the complaints are about. 100% accuracy at long ranges? These aren't laser weapons dude.
Actually, that was one of the things i noticed when I first started...that all the weapons were TOO accurate....i'd be shooting someone at 100M with a freaking LMG and the bullets were hitting dead on which is ridiculous. Quite frankly, with more powerful automatic weapons (LMG/some of the more powerful assault rifles) there should be WAY more bullet spread that what there is now. As it stands now the Sniper rifle is completely useless since you can still accurately take guys out across the map with a LMG with a 75 round magazine.
in a videogame, firing a single shot while not moving and aiming down sights should always be at least 99% accurate, not a random bullet, damage and recoil values after firing the shot are a different question, case in point. Enjoy your MAG lottery, I'm just saying I prefer having fun with other games than suffer frustration from this silly patch, I still can get 60+ kills per domination match easily but I just don't feel the game anymore, I have high standards when it comes to online shooters.
PedroLumpy
Member
weekend_warrior said:
Doesn't it seem a little goofy to you that putting a different sight on a gun all of the sudden makes a bullet go straight?
weekend_warrior
Banned
PedroLumpy said:
Nah, I can understand the logic behind gimping the reflex sight. Think about how bad the acog scope was in COD4, nobody used it because the red dot sight was better at for long kills and close kills. I was just confused as to why the accuracy seemed to go down with the reflex vs with the iron sights. And tonight I put a front grip on Svers AR, and the single shot accuracy seemed to go down again. I don't know what the fucks going on anymore. :\
SolidusDave
Member
Lince said:
So it doesn't effect your game but you still hate the current version so much you boycott anything Zipper related because according to you they lie and lure you into their games just to change them "dramatically"?
No offence, but this might sound a bit silly in some ears. Especially after reading your "I'm back for KZ2" because now I would like to read your old posts about the control-changes in this game ^^
I agree though about having the barrel of the gun visually follow the bullet output.
Though this would mean you would be able do 100% accuracy single shots again if they don't change anything else (other long distance factors like wind etc.)
btw. wasn't the AR actually buffed according to the patch notes?
As far as I'm concerned, the patch brought some really needed changes. Stuff I was scratching my head at since the betas was fixed now like the new bomb-GTFO-beep, no more teamkills for blowing up structures or getting runover-killed by just touching non-moving vehicles.
I know this little stuff gameplay-wise, but even the weapon changes are fine by me (Sniper/MP+LMG user).
Instead of getting killed by any weapon at very long distances now only the sniper can do it (effectively), I don't think AR users have much problems killing at mid to long range (even if it now takes maybe 3 instead of 1 bullet to hit the one pixel of the head while actually position your gun relative to the on-screen name) and low to mid range the SMG and to an extend even the LMG is ok. Close Quarters is still the LMG domain, together with the shotgun at very close range (I don't know the effect of the patch but it shouldn't have been nerfed).
But let's see how/if Zipper will change/balance the weapons in future patches, I would think now they first have to observe the reaction of playerbase
SolidusDave said:
idk i do about the same with the AR as i did before the patch. But i'm getting sniped a lot more often than ever before, so it seems obvious this patch helped snipers if nothing else.
For all the talk about snipers shutting down entire paths to an object, i never really experienced it in MAG before the patch.
SolidusDave
Member
jorma said:
This is also due to most of the time you can't get revived after a sniper shot, so having a sniper targeting a path of an objective (partly) visible for him/her can really make a difference in the chaos as it slows down the enemy and more effectively reducing the current number of enemies.
In close quarters I slaughtered half of squads with my LMG, only having to see them all getting up again after I was killed and moving on to the objective, so my action had no impact at all.
Of course now the non-snipers are having a hard time hitting a sniper from long range so you "noticing" them more.
Though as long as there are 1-2 snipers in each squad (on both sides), they battle it out in sniper duels to prevent them killing your team. Commandos can also help by knifing them from behind.
btw. why do characters shout "Sniper!" AFTER they killed a sniper? :lol
What this game needs right now (1 and 2), as well as what I'd want (3):
1. Exit Penalty - If you have played for more than 5 minutes and exit the game, no matter what method you use, you lose some XP. Yes I know this is hard and stupid if you lose you connection etc, but finalizing a game with 3 players in my squad just because it doesn't look like we are about to end the match in a landslide win makes people stop playing this game.
2. SL/FRAGO information - Loading screens for the old guys and a new part of the tutorial for new players that show people the benefits of staying close to their Squad Leader, and how much more XP they earn by following FRAGO:s. Playing with randoms (yes, I know) that run around like fireflies on LSD makes me pissed off and will turn people over to playing BC2 instead.
3. Squad balance: Limit the amount of snipers per squad to 1. Possibly limit the amount of LMG:s to 2. This is of course impossible to implement because it would force would be snipers/LMG gunners to running around with the lousiest assault rifle. But hey, a man can dream right? Something to think about for MAG 2.
Feel free to rip it to shreds or just agree, people.
1. Exit Penalty - If you have played for more than 5 minutes and exit the game, no matter what method you use, you lose some XP. Yes I know this is hard and stupid if you lose you connection etc, but finalizing a game with 3 players in my squad just because it doesn't look like we are about to end the match in a landslide win makes people stop playing this game.
2. SL/FRAGO information - Loading screens for the old guys and a new part of the tutorial for new players that show people the benefits of staying close to their Squad Leader, and how much more XP they earn by following FRAGO:s. Playing with randoms (yes, I know) that run around like fireflies on LSD makes me pissed off and will turn people over to playing BC2 instead.
3. Squad balance: Limit the amount of snipers per squad to 1. Possibly limit the amount of LMG:s to 2. This is of course impossible to implement because it would force would be snipers/LMG gunners to running around with the lousiest assault rifle. But hey, a man can dream right? Something to think about for MAG 2.
Feel free to rip it to shreds or just agree, people.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIYUmRthtAI&feature=player_embedded
That video explains a lot. I thought my skills just went to shit after the patch :lol
Yeah, that's it for me and MAG. It was fun sometimes, but not near enough to put up with the shortcomings. Hopefully they fix all that for a sequel and come up with a better solution for long range LMG sniping than randomizing all the bullet locations :lol
That video explains a lot. I thought my skills just went to shit after the patch :lol
Yeah, that's it for me and MAG. It was fun sometimes, but not near enough to put up with the shortcomings. Hopefully they fix all that for a sequel and come up with a better solution for long range LMG sniping than randomizing all the bullet locations :lol
Billen said:
Stupid because losing connection isn't our fault, in fact it is a Zipper issue. Zipper penalising us for their own problems? Why ignore the leaving method?
Billen said:
I think we can all agree that the in-game training is sub-par. I used to get annoyed at squad leaders not setting FRAGO, so I've been leading squads myself. Guess what? Nobody even follows it when you set it! The worst case is in Domination attack. If you leave it on the burnoff tower, people at least go for it. But change it to a bunker and people not only ignore the bunker, but stop going to the tower! It's just a full platoon of headless chickens! Oh, how I love Raven.
Additionally, it would seem that many players -- some seemingly with experience playing the game, who believe they can do better at leading -- don't realise that I can't call in strikes while AAA is up / our mortar is down. Being asked to change FRAGO when sensor jammed is also a common request. And by request I mean people tell me I'm doing a bad job, even though I just said "I can't set FRAGO yet but please go for the far left bunker".
Billen said:
Squads might be more 'balanced', but who would want to play?
Note: Added numbers
1. Because people would just disconnect from the net instead etc. I believe that losing connection is a minor issue. Maybe set -XP if you exit and instead have some form of disgrace tag set to your name if you kept disconnecting would work better. Note the "believe" part.
2. People would perhaps follow the orders more carefully if they really understood what they had to gain from doing so?
3. This is also something that information between levels/in a tutorial could help to sort out.
4. Well, as it stands now lots off people will stop playing once other games (BC2 for example) are out since they are getting tired of the sniping/LMG game right now. Combined with the fact that the average player has no idea how the game works many good players are getting really pissed off.
roxya said:
1. Because people would just disconnect from the net instead etc. I believe that losing connection is a minor issue. Maybe set -XP if you exit and instead have some form of disgrace tag set to your name if you kept disconnecting would work better. Note the "believe" part.
2. People would perhaps follow the orders more carefully if they really understood what they had to gain from doing so?
3. This is also something that information between levels/in a tutorial could help to sort out.
4. Well, as it stands now lots off people will stop playing once other games (BC2 for example) are out since they are getting tired of the sniping/LMG game right now. Combined with the fact that the average player has no idea how the game works many good players are getting really pissed off.
jonnybryce
Member
Chrange said:
Same here. Ultimately, definitely disappointing but I guess it was fun to experience such huge maps and amounts of people at war at once. It feels incomplete though, there's just not enough fun here.
Billen said:
I don't think a huge number of people would bother taking out their cable to leave a game. If you just apply it to leaving early by using "exit game", it would be better than what we have.
Billen said:
Not disagreeing at all. Training videos, loading screen info, more training missions, whatever. They need to teach players more. Not everyone is willing to research this shit :|
Billen said:
Yeah but really, leaving the weapons broken and just limiting who can use them isn't the answer. The answer is to fix the damn weapons.
krioto said:I'm not sure what all the crying is about - I hardly noticed any difference. It's just great to not be sniped by the LMG anymore. Suck it up ladies and get back in there.
yup, feels more realistic. Heavy weapons SHOULD spray because they are hard to control.
I remember when the PKM got buffed with like a 'laser' in Battlefield 2 and EVERYONE was up in arms about the lack of spread of bullet drop and how the game is ruined. Now we get people complaining about the LACK of accuracy. HAHAHAH
Kogepan said:
realistic or not I still believe a well aimed single-shot should be 99% accurate, but maybe I'm just being dumb asking for that fair accuracy (not asking for MW2 laser weapons, just single-shot accuracy while not moving). Re-reading my posts I look a bit silly as if someone would fix it just by reading those, I guess I just had to vent.
MrPliskin said:
I'm sorry if I hurt some feelings here or made myself look like a troll, it wasn't my intention, I explained my reasoning and somehow we're not agreeing anymore, I'll just move on. Peace guys. See you around in other games/threads hope you don't hate me, sometimes the Spanish passion isn't a virtue but a defect.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Man I really don't get all the complaining. Everything just feels tighter since the patch and more balanced out.
DefectiveReject
Banned
So is there a GAF Clan on this? I bought the game and am loving it so far
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Lince said:
I know this doesn't apply to you Lince since I have played online shooters with you before and I know this isn't your style but a lot of the complaints seem to be coming from people that weren't very good at the game so they were relying heavily on a certain exploit or equipment imbalance to get their kills. I have used the LMG and Shotgun combo since day one and I absolutely murder with both of them. Post patch I still can murder with both of them I just have to use them the way they always should have been utilized. All I know is that since the patch even when we play against SVER and lose I now feel it was because they were the better team and not because we were fighting a impossible battle the whole time.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Yeah I am definitely picking of BFBC2
Concept17 said:
if you consider reaching lvl 60 with Valor in 4 days easy mode... ok.
BruceLeeRoy said:
thanks Bruce, since the first MAG Beta I've approached it like most of the online shooters I've played so far, this is, studying the best way to approach the objective and taking my time to pick up the enemies guarding it as efficient and fast as possible... I relied too much on headshots (I always aim, alway, even at close range), now with the random spread I need to fire in short bursts to make sure at least one bullet makes it to the head.
I'm basically wasting ammo and time with multiple reloads I didn't need before and also giving my position to the enemy more, even with silencers, a burst of tracers isn't the same as a quick bullet to the head. I know it's not game-breaking and most of you even like it better than before, fair game, I just hope I could adapt to the new mechanics but simply I can't (ironically it was a 1.03 game that I got my most kills and best K/D to date, 102-17), but seeing how my well aimed bullet flies in random direction breaks the game for me, a shame since I was praising MAG here from the very beginning. Well I'm repeating myself again here, have fun guys <3
PedroLumpy
Member
BruceLeeRoy said:
Woah hey now no, don't be throwing that around, no one has said that all of the sudden we suck now with these guns. We all still manage to kill people with the new weapons, as everyone got nerfed after all. It's just not fun anymore. There changes don't make it so you have to take controlled bursts, or stop moving, or go prone etc etc. It just makes it so that after a certain range, you cannot fight someone, no matter how carefully you shoot. That's lame, in a game with no auto aim, zomg hardcore etc etc etc. Now I may be good enough to aim for heads, but it just doesn't matter cause the bullets won't go there.
BruceLeeRoy said:
What's this about? The problem with SVER was the maps, how does this patch do anything to address the faction imbalance?
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
PedroLumpy said:
I use the LMG exclusively and I still have no problem taking people out a good distance away. I can no longer snipe with the gun but that's the way it should be. I have never had a moment where I am like ah shit the guy just ran out of my effective shooting zone guess I am fu#@ed.
And the there are several spots on SVERs domination map that have been changed to make it not such a bottleneck if your attacking. Also SVER not being able to disarm explosives or shoot from behind a door is obviously very helpful.
I agree with anyone who doesn't like the way Zipper "fixed" the weapons, however, for me there are far more important issues that are ruining the game for me.
The worst thing for me is the crippling lag from Europe, the level of which wouldn't have been acceptable 10 years ago on a 56k modem (I know, I played the shit out of quake 2 on 56k). How many more times can I die from bullets that were shot at least 500ms ago while I'm already in cover? Or shoot someone in the face with a shotgun but it doesn't register because the server thinks I'm already dead, and my client didn't know it yet? I like how they don't tell us our ping or rate our connections...
Second is the reliance on teamwork when 90% of people playing are idiots. FRAGO gets ignored, people think objectives will somehow magically be taken if they stand 50-80m away and have a long range battle with the defenders. People drive APCs straight to a spot with line-of-sight for two bunkers, over and over.
I don't think Zipper can do anything about the latter, except make a different game.
The worst thing for me is the crippling lag from Europe, the level of which wouldn't have been acceptable 10 years ago on a 56k modem (I know, I played the shit out of quake 2 on 56k). How many more times can I die from bullets that were shot at least 500ms ago while I'm already in cover? Or shoot someone in the face with a shotgun but it doesn't register because the server thinks I'm already dead, and my client didn't know it yet? I like how they don't tell us our ping or rate our connections...
Second is the reliance on teamwork when 90% of people playing are idiots. FRAGO gets ignored, people think objectives will somehow magically be taken if they stand 50-80m away and have a long range battle with the defenders. People drive APCs straight to a spot with line-of-sight for two bunkers, over and over.
I don't think Zipper can do anything about the latter, except make a different game.