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[Vennt]

Can't wait until we're all up there high enough to switch to Valor or Raven, put this "lop-sided" maps thing to rest.

To be fair, I think you and Click have already made your opinions on the matter quite clear in this thread, and are that invested in proving the Raven players concerns invalid that no-one is going to take any notice of you even when you're playing as Raven. "Look, we're in Raven and we do fine" is not going to win anyone over, neither is "Ohhh listen to this, Raven suck still" going to help.

The numbers speak for themselves, Raven hold their own and are playing Acquisition (and winning), they are not playing Domination, at it's worst last night I saw 3100 SVER in Domination and 660 Raven at the same time. Acquisistion requires pretty much the same skill-set that Domination does, the same communication and co-ordination, maybe not to exactly the same degree but a bunch of MW2 inspired lone-wolves don't win in Acquisition, in defense or offense.

 

[blazinglazers]

Fun games Valor Kings. We put up a good fight.

Really hope there's some DLC coming soon, something. The game's fun, but could really use more content. Maybe I just have to brave Acquisition more often.

 

[Iknos]

I've been awaiting a game like this for years and I've been too busy to read up on this game in particular so I have a few questions that were only touched upon in the OP...

-What sort of vehicles are there? Ground only? Air? Any water based stuff?

-This battle between the 3 PMCs...is there any long lasting effects of each fight? I've heard that each online match in Chromehounds changes the overall balance of power in the universe...that sounds hot. Same thing in MAG?

-One review gave it a high score but said there was no tutorial for the game so it's hard to learn...anyone have links to YouTube videos that would teach me how to play?

-I really like team based games and I'm a team player. I'm the sort that feels that if everyone on a squad is on the same page you will achieve your objective. Thing is I don't have enough time to play games regularly with a clan...I'd like to jump on at any time and just fit in. I've done it with many PC games because the community is mature and dedicated enough to do that sort of thing. Is the MAG community that mature yet or will it be another few months you think?

 

[J-Rzez]

To be fair, I think you and Click have already made your opinions on the matter quite clear in this thread, and are that invested in proving the Raven players concerns invalid that no-one is going to take any notice of you even when you're playing as Raven. "Look, we're in Raven and we do fine" is not going to win anyone over, neither is "Ohhh listen to this, Raven suck still" going to help.

The numbers speak for themselves, Raven hold their own and are playing Acquisition (and winning), they are not playing Domination, at it's worst last night I saw 3100 SVER in Domination and 660 Raven at the same time. Acquisistion requires pretty much the same skill-set that Domination does, the same communication and co-ordination, maybe not to exactly the same degree but a bunch of MW2 inspired lone-wolves don't win in Acquisition, in defense or offense.

There's 3 PMC's right? So there's a 1 in 6 chance that they won't be attacking SVER. So Raven is saying they can't beat SVER when attacking, or is Raven saying they can't attack SVER and Valor, nor defend their own map?

I've played each PMC through the various Beta phases, and I honestly don't see a problem what so ever here. Each PMC has their rough spots to go through and each has their own weak spots. Each time, I never see them going after the spots you can exploit, nor see them bolstering their weaknesses. If ANY PMC does that, they won't be successful.

There has been MANY times, 2 that happened tonight alone, where defending on SVER's Dom, that we got pushed back to the primary. We then fought our way out of there and took it all back. That right there is a prime example.

I agree that Acquisition takes skill, I enjoy the mode as well, probably the most. My personal picks are:

1. Acq
2. Dom
3. Sab (which is the only one I agree with that it can be tougher to attack SVER on without some solid communication, and that Raven's C can be a bitch at times)

I'd like to vest more time into Acq. Don't be surprised to see more SVER start going into that mode. And if so, we'll see how it pans out.

I would actually like to hear Das-J's sentiments on this whole thing, in somewhat detail.

More so, I'd like to hear Das say, "Hey guys! DLC in two weeks! New maps! New weapons! New skills!".

 

[jorma]

Can't wait until we're all up there high enough to switch to Valor or Raven, put this "lop-sided" maps thing to rest.

Wait what, is it your actual claim that Ravens domination map is no harder to defend than the Sver map? Really? Really?

I mean we all know that they both CAN be defended, but i did not actually think that anyone still believed they were balanced. Well you are welcome. I hope you do realise that a bunch of veteran sver players already made the jump, to prove exactly the point you will be aiming to prove.

As i understand it, they are currently playing aquisition.

 

[Vennt]

It's not just attacking SVER, it's a combination of SVER's Dom map being incredibly hard to attack with Ravens Dom map being incredibly hard to defend, add to this that less Valor play Domination than SVER and it's a greater than 50% chance of getting a match you're not going to win/enjoy, not 1 in 6, that's why the Raven Dom numbers are plummeting.

 

[KaYotiX]

Awesome games again SVER GaF. Always fun to roll with people who like to work together.

 

[J-Rzez]

I've been awaiting a game like this for years and I've been too busy to read up on this game in particular so I have a few questions that were only touched upon in the OP...

-What sort of vehicles are there? Ground only? Air? Any water based stuff?

-This battle between the 3 PMCs...is there any long lasting effects of each fight? I've heard that each online match in Chromehounds changes the overall balance of power in the universe...that sounds hot. Same thing in MAG?

-One review gave it a high score but said there was no tutorial for the game so it's hard to learn...anyone have links to YouTube videos that would teach me how to play?

-I really like team based games and I'm a team player. I'm the sort that feels that if everyone on a squad is on the same page you will achieve your objective. Thing is I don't have enough time to play games regularly with a clan...I'd like to jump on at any time and just fit in. I've done it with many PC games because the community is mature and dedicated enough to do that sort of thing. Is the MAG community that mature yet or will it be another few months you think?

Only APC's and the target vehicles in Acq can be piloted. There are other vehicles that show up: Strike Fighter/Bombers, Air drop planes, Helo's, but they are not controllable. Helo's have man-able turrets.

The persistent war in here gives PMC's advantages via "contracts". This can be XP bonuses, leadership cooldown buffs, range, etc.

The game is NOT hard to learn what to do. The maps are huge, and thus take some time to master unlike in any other shooter. I still get certain spawns that I don't remember the territory as well. It's honestly not hard to grasp the concepts. There's BIG FLASHING letters for objectives. Colored/Highlighted structures on the incredibly detailed maps in game. Your objectives pop up on the screen and even give audible notation what to do. While the maps are loading there's a speech, and checklist of to-do's displayed. Plus, you have mics. The vast majority of it is common sense.

Join a GAF clan of whichever PMC you choose to play. It's casually-hardcore if you get my drift.

 

[J-Rzez]

Wait what, is it your actual claim that Ravens domination map is no harder to defend than the Sver map? Really? Really?

I mean we all know that they both CAN be defended, but i did not actually think that anyone still believed they were balanced. Well you are welcome. I hope you do realise that a bunch of veteran sver players already made the jump, to prove exactly the point you will be aiming to prove.

As i understand it, they are currently playing aquisition.

That's fine. Whichever PMC we'd choose to join I'll be playing Dom nearly as much as Acq. I prefer Acq.

I think more players jumped to Valor though, as they've either gelled or they did get an influx of the better SVER players as they have become very competitive.

As far as this goes, I'm done arguing with this. This is as bad as the whole WoW "AV" dramaz (except there are clearly cut points to that one lol).

 

[jorma]

It's not just attacking SVER, it's a combination of SVER's Dom map being incredibly hard to attack with Ravens Dom map being incredibly hard to defend, add to this that less Valor play Domination than SVER and it's a greater than 50% chance of getting a match you're not going to win/enjoy, not 1 in 6, that's why the Raven Dom numbers are plummeting.

It also causes other imbalance issues such as the lopsided win ratios causing the average level of the players to be lopsided as well, due to hefty XP bonuses. And i'm also quite sure that a lot more experienced players went SVER because of this perceived imbalance. And i do know that a lot of players just drop out when they see 'attacking SVER' at the matchup screen making it even harder to succeed. I played with randoms for a few hours a couple of days ago, and it was rare to be in a full squad on these maps so at least my anecdotal evidence tells me it's true.

So there is no one reason for the SVER domination, but it is my opinion that the map imbalance - imaginary or not - is the root of it all.

Or maybe it is just as j-rzez and click seem to claim - all the good players randomly gravitated towards SVER and left Valor and Raven with the scrubs.

 

[Billen]

It also causes other imbalance issues such as the lopsided win ratios causing the average level of the players to be lopsided as well, due to hefty XP bonuses. And i'm also quite sure that a lot more experienced players went SVER because of this perceived imbalance. And i do know that a lot of players just drop out when they see 'attacking SVER' at the matchup screen making it even harder to succeed. I played with randoms for a few hours a couple of days ago, and it was rare to be in a full squad on these maps so at least my anecdotal evidence tells me it's true.

So there is no one reason for the SVER domination, but it is my opinion that the map imbalance - imaginary or not - is the root of it all.

Or maybe it is just as j-rzez and click seem to claim - all the good players randomly gravitated towards SVER and left Valor and Raven with the scrubs.

I just laughed right out here when I read the last sentence.

 

[Click]

To be fair, I think you and Click have already made your opinions on the matter quite clear in this thread, and are that invested in proving the Raven players concerns invalid that no-one is going to take any notice of you even when you're playing as Raven. "Look, we're in Raven and we do fine" is not going to win anyone over, neither is "Ohhh listen to this, Raven suck still" going to help.

The numbers speak for themselves, Raven hold their own and are playing Acquisition (and winning), they are not playing Domination, at it's worst last night I saw 3100 SVER in Domination and 660 Raven at the same time. Acquisistion requires pretty much the same skill-set that Domination does, the same communication and co-ordination, maybe not to exactly the same degree but a bunch of MW2 inspired lone-wolves don't win in Acquisition, in defense or offense.

To be fair, I think all the Raven and Valor whiners have also made their opinions on the matter quite clear in this thread too. Over and over. We're just sick of them constantly bitching about map (dis)advantage every page, over and over. If you're sick of us 2 providing the counterarguments in this retarded debate, then I wonder what you think of all the people bitching non-stop. Or do you consider their bitching to be "constructive criticism?" Bias is a wonderful thing, ain't it?

Both J-Rzez and I, as well as other SVER GAF members, have already agreed several times, that SVER does have a map advantage. We're not even arguing about this. We're just saying that the imbalance is not nearly as bad as most people are making it out to be. And that at the end of the day, skill, teamwork, and good communication makes much more of a difference than map imbalance.

Honestly, I couldn't care less what Raven / Valor GAF thinks or says. And I'm not exactly trying to "win" anyone over. I just play games and enjoy MAG a lot. I'm just sick of watching this thread turn into a massive bitch-fest everyday. The whining has subsided recently, after one of my posts. But it seems to be picking back up again. *sigh*

 

[jorma]

Click, i'm not sure you have been saying anything right out. In your opinion, the massive difference in win ratios in a 2 week old game is due to what exactly?

I mean i think that we can all agree that if both sides fought with the same conditions the faction win ratio should be at 50 percent mathematically speaking. And they're clearly not.

So what gives?

 

[J-Rzez]

I just laughed right out here when I read the last sentence.

Happens all the time in MMOs. The "weaker faction" in beta usually receives those people who didn't play them prior. "Well since this faction is rolled the least, we'll roll it" kind of mentality.

I personally just happen to like SVERs streak music the most.

 

[J-Rzez]

Click, i'm not sure you have been saying anything right out. In your opinion, the massive difference in win ratios in a 2 week old game is due to what exactly?

I mean i think that we can all agree that if both sides fought with the same conditions the faction win ratio should be at 50 percent mathematically speaking. And they're clearly not.

So what gives?

I'm not Click but it's not hard to understand what's happening here.

We've experienced this first hand now. We'll walk some teams, others we have a real fight on our hands, losing a number of them. It's not the factions, it's the player, as they were different squads each time. Like it or not, that's how it is. There's no magic weapon here, and there's no gapping holes in defenses, so it's the player. That is all.

 

[Billen]

We've experienced this first hand now. We'll walk some teams, others we have a real fight on our hands, losing a number of them. It's not the factions, it's the player, as they were different squads each time. Like it or not, that's how it is. There's no magic weapon here, and there's no gapping holes in defenses, so it's the player. That is all.

.....


Happens all the time in MMOs. The "weaker faction" in beta usually receives those people who didn't play them prior. "Well since this faction is rolled the least, we'll roll it" kind of mentality.

I personally just happen to like SVERs streak music the most.

Seriously. Stop. I am supposed to be working here

 

[jorma]

I'm not Click but it's not hard to understand what's happening here.

We've experienced this first hand now. We'll walk some teams, others we have a real fight on our hands, losing a number of them. It's not the factions, it's the player, as they were different squads each time. Like it or not, that's how it is. There's no magic weapon here, and there's no gapping holes in defenses, so it's the player. That is all.

If so - why did all the good players end up with SVER? The music? Random chance? Hoodies?

edit: hmm i'm not sure i get this correctly - your contention is that after the betas, everyone thought that SVER would be the weaker faction so everyone good rolled SVER because they like to be the underdog?

 

[AgentOtaku]

If so - why did all the good players end up with SVER? The music? Random chance?

Hoodies man

fucking Hoodies...

 

[J-Rzez]

If so - why did all the good players end up with SVER? The music? Random chance? Hoodies?

edit: hmm i'm not sure i get this correctly - your contention is that after the betas, everyone thought that SVER would be the weaker faction so everyone good rolled SVER because they like to be the underdog?

They were at one point in the beta the lowest represented PMC, there was even a poll on it. People probably saw it, and thus chose their route. Or perhaps they liked the cool rock music too like myself. Who knows lol. That would be only for a certain number of players of course though.

 

[jorma]

They were at one point in the beta the lowest represented PMC, there was even a poll on it. People probably saw it, and thus chose their route. Or perhaps they liked the cool rock music too like myself. Who knows lol. That would be only for a certain number of players of course though.

Uhu, i think we both agree that SVER was the lowest represented with the highest win ratio in the Beta, wich at least to me signifies that SVER had the least likable aestetics when nothing else was known about the factions.

So something happened from beta to retail.

I'm not sure if i should take your suggestion that there is a correlation on player skill and taste in music seriously. Is that really a more credible suggestion than that they discovered that SVER maps were easier to defend so SVER got more beta testers from the beginning wich led to a direct downward spiral? map imbalance -> win ratio imbalance -> player experience imbalance -> level imbalance -> OIC imbalance?

But if it really is as you say - SVER has much better players than Valor and Raven, then why aren't you steamrolling in aquisition as well?

 

[J-Rzez]

Uhu, i think we both agree that SVER was the lowest represented with the highest win ratio in the Beta, wich at least to me signifies that SVER had the least likable aestetics when nothing else was known about the factions.

So something happened from beta to retail.

I'm not sure if i should take your suggestion that there is a correlation on player skill and taste in music seriously. Is that really a more credible suggestion than that they discovered that SVER maps were easier to defend so SVER got more beta testers from the beginning wich led to a direct downward spiral? map imbalance -> win ratio imbalance -> player experience imbalance -> level imbalance -> OIC imbalance?

But if it really is as you say - SVER has much better players than Valor and Raven, then why aren't you steamrolling in aquisition as well?

Some people may have cheated out falling for the unfounded claims that SVER's maps are impossible to lose defending via forums or odd reviews. Thus they want easy modes, so maybe some of those players also happened to be highly skilled.

As far as Acq goes, when SVER GAF is playing in them, we tend to tear shit up. Look at the numbers too. More of SVER is playing Dom. Perhaps they love the "256".

 

[Outtrigger888]

I just really believe in what sver stands for, thats why I fight for them.

Anyways craziest thing just happend, I spawned and my controls went mirrored on me, left was right and right was left, and so on. Has this happend to anyone else? And Im still waiting for my clan invite for sver, if anyone can send me one my PSN: cbal2424

 

[jorma]

Some people may have cheated out falling for the unfounded claims that SVER's maps are impossible to lose defending via forums or odd reviews. Thus they want easy modes, so maybe some of those players also happened to be highly skilled.

As far as Acq goes, when SVER GAF is playing in them, we tend to tear shit up. Look at the numbers too. More of SVER is playing Dom. Perhaps they love the "256".

But what you are saying now is that the more skilled you are, the more likely you are to want easy mode.
And you are also saying that the fewer players a faction had in the beta, the likelier it is that a skilled players chooses it, because he likes to be an underdog.
And you are also saying that the better a player are, the more likely he will be to prefer SVER music

I can only interpret this as: "any suggestion is good, even if they contradict each other - just as long as it has nothing to do with the balance of the game because that is just wrong".

 

[chalkitdown1]

Anyways craziest thing just happend, I spawned and my controls went mirrored on me, left was right and right was left, and so on. Has this happend to anyone else?

That happened to me once when I parachuted into a level and landed on a roof. Jumping off the roof seemed to fix it, though.

 

[Lince]

Not sure why it should be an exclusive complaint against MAG.

nope, the threads on the new BFBC2 multiplayer demo are exactly the same :lol
then again there are no serious gaming forums for the Spanish community, they're all directed to the most casual of gamers, that's why I've been around here for 5 years now.

 

[uraldix]

If so - why did all the good players end up with SVER? The music? Random chance? Hoodies?

I don't think that it is a matter of skill but a matter of style. Raven/Valor seem to have a lot of people that hang back and get long range kills. This style can do wonders for your K/D ratio but translates poorly to a high winning percentage. When only half you team is trying to take objectives, you are going to lose.

 

[Lince]

I'm looking forward to trying a stealth class most. Assault rifle or SMG with silencer. Motion sensor maybe. I spent an acquisition game the other day, (one I knew we would win from the beginning) sneaking around the map knifing 3-4 people at once and it was great fun.

I switched to AR+silencer with motion sensor after hitting 2K kills with the LMG, I'm not getting as many kills as before since we all know LMGs are beasts but I love to infiltrate a bunker from some unexpected path and start knifing and killing everyone guarding it. I guess most people rocking the "improved stealth" upgrade than expected, to the point that I feel the motion sensor is almost useless these days.

 

[TheFallen]

Click, i'm not sure you have been saying anything right out. In your opinion, the massive difference in win ratios in a 2 week old game is due to what exactly?

I mean i think that we can all agree that if both sides fought with the same conditions the faction win ratio should be at 50 percent mathematically speaking. And they're clearly not.

So what gives?

They're clearly not because this is a video game with widely varied player skill, connection, and levels. A 50% win ratio can never be expected. No amount of balancing will get it there.

J-Rzez's example of this being exactly like the World of Warcraft battleground arguments is spot on. No matter what Zipper does to correct this "imbalance", it will always swing the advantage to one faction or another. The only way to deal with this issue is to allow the opposing team the chance to defend the map after they've attacked. However, I can't see this happening as it seems to go against the concept of the shadow war. If a team loses attacking a map, it wouldn't make sense to give them control of the base for the second round. Zipper would have to resort to making it "gamey" to go down this path. Even then, they'd also be forced to weapons identical. And you could bet your ass people would then start arguing about armor/colors being easier seen on the battlefield giving them a disadvantage.

What's very interesting to me that I don't see being brought up much is the fact that Raven's numbers are dwindling in regards to Domination. So if SVER are playing Domination matches 3x more (given the player count), couldn't we easily assume SVER should see more wins by their experience (of playing Dom more, not actual levels) alone?

It's a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. When you give up on a mode saying it's imbalanced, you'll become rusty while the other PMCs sit there and learn new strategies and master the maps. That "advantage" becomes even larger over time.

 

[andycapps]

Hoodies man

fucking Hoodies...

:lol I see what you did there.

To all the whine fest about the imbalances, I think the numbers in each mode and the win/loss ratio of each PMC speaks volumes about the issues in this game. That should be a given at this point, and we just need to deal with it or GTFO this game until they fix it via new maps, PMC's alternating defending or attacking on their own maps, etc.

There are skilled players on all PMC's, there are quite a few from GAF that rolled with SVER because it was easy mode or because of the "automatic win" thing that I saw mentioned about a week ago when so many new users were being told to join SVER first if they liked to win, Valor if they wanted a challenge, and Raven if they were suicidal. So come on, don't have such short term memory that some of you don't remember that. You're in denial.

Admitting that there's issues with the game doesn't mean that we can't all have fun in our respective modes that favor our sides, or that the game with all of it's necessity of requiring teamwork can't still be enjoyed. At this point, that's where I'm at. I understand that there are issues with the game that I'm sure that Zipper will resolve in some way, but I am still enjoying the heck out of it in the meantime.

 

[Dr. Light]

As a member of Raven GAF (ShockMegaX) I have this to say. I have played for less than 10 hours, but there is clearly a balance issue with the maps.

Sabotage:

Attacking Valor: This is only attacking map where I have personally experienced any kind of success. We've won once or twice. Considering how hard attacking seems to be in this game, that's saying something.

Defending Raven: We've lost every time I've played this. Not good. Maybe it's because our team sucks, but I'd prefer to think it's the map.

Attacking SVER: Fucking impossible. My stats go in the shitter if I even try to play this most of the time. Never won.

Aquisition:

Attacking Valor: Again, about average. Won once or twice, but still hard.

Attacking SVER: Hard, but won at least once. The easiest of the SVER maps (for what it's worth).

Defending Raven: Great. I've always done well on this map and we've never lost.

Domination: Only played one time, because Raven apparently ignores this mode. I don't blame them.

Attacking SVER: Impossible. I ragequit after a few minutes of constantly dying while making no progress whatsoever. I then immediately went back to Supression (playing against other Raven players, of course) and went 16 - 3. Nothing like good ol' Suppression. Why is it so much easier?

BTW, I have a question for the experts. I'm AR spec, do you recommend sticking with the medium armor (like I have now) or should I go with the heavy?

 

[jorma]

They're clearly not because this is a video game with widely varied player skill, connection, and levels. A 50% win ratio can never be expected. No amount of balancing will get it there.

Yes, but if they were completely the same, it would be close to 50% correct?

And since the stats are more like 80% vs 20% rather than 50/50, well then there is a clear difference. And the game has been out for two weeks. And if the imbalance is not due to the maps, then it is due to player ability to win. What else could it be?

And if it is due to ability to win as j-rzez and click suggests, i am asking for the reasons - why are all the able players in SVER? What made all the skilled players end up in SVER from the get go?

It's not aesthetics - clearly both raven and valor were more popular in the betas when nothing but the aesthetics was known about the PMC's
So it's something else. A lot of people are suggesting it's the maps. SVER players disagree. So what is it then?

Admitting that there's issues with the game doesn't mean that we can't all have fun in our respective modes that favor our sides, or that the game with all of it's necessity of requiring teamwork can't still be enjoyed. At this point, that's where I'm at. I understand that there are issues with the game that I'm sure that Zipper will resolve in some way, but I am still enjoying the heck out of it in the meantime.

Agreed.

 

[Violater]

One thing for sure, people are genuinely frustrated with SVER and Zipper needs to do something fast.

I noticed something last night with the taking down of the AAA on sver's acquisition map.
How much of a diff would it make if you parachuted in, instead of using the helicopter.
Would you be able to land around the area and overwhelm the bunkers?
Or just become targets for the unfairly placed bunkers.

Either way the game is getting boring for me, especially when I have to defend.

I will say this though, Valor is getting better, I suggest that if svergaf wants to make a daring move that we switch to raven first.

 

[Wes]

Seems SVERGaf is outnumbering, or will be outnumbering, RavenGAF soon in terms of numbers. Definite change from before the release (when Valor had no members signed up for the longest time - good to see thats changed though).

 

[TheFallen]

Yes, but if they were completely the same, it would be close to 50% correct?

My point was that it will never be the same, so there's no point in bringing it up. There's a lot to factor in: skill, weapon, level/spec, connection. So unless this game has 1 weapon, no specs/levels, and everyone has 0 ping and exactly equal skill - your argument is moot.

 

[jorma]

My point was that it will never be the same, so there's no point in bringing it up. There's a lot to factor in: skill, weapon, level/spec, connection. So unless this game has 1 weapon, no specs/levels, and everyone has 0 ping and exactly equal skill - your argument is moot.

It's not at all moot when 50/50 turns into 80/20 (or whatever the stats is) from day 1 of retail release.

 

[-viper-]

So looks like GAFe has found a home at MAG. Sorry for not picking this game up - haven't really got the time to play an online only game like MAG.

 

[Confidence Man]

Is the SMG/Shotgun skill category worth investing in? I don't know if I should bother with the third AR or go with close combat instead.

 

[Fixed1979]

So tonight we discovered SVER glitching the barrier doors to their control points on their domination map. We laid charges on the outside of the barrier doors to the control points multiple times only to have it disarmed from the inside every single time. (unless you are supposed to be able to disarm from the other side of the door?????)

I'm done with Domination until this shit is fixed. Bad enough the maps are imbalanced to hell and back, now we can't even set charges to get inside.

You forgot that they were actually able to shoot through another door and kill the person trying to plant.

That was the quickest time SVER had been pushed back in a domination map in any game I've been in. To run into those glitches is a real piss off, you'd think SVER had enough skill that they wouldn't need to use them.

 

[andycapps]

One thing for sure, people are genuinely frustrated with SVER and Zipper needs to do something fast.

I noticed something last night with the taking down of the AAA on sver's acquisition map.
How much of a diff would it make if you parachuted in, instead of using the helicopter.
Would you be able to land around the area and overwhelm the bunkers?
Or just become targets for the unfairly placed bunkers.

Either way the game is getting boring for me, especially when I have to defend.

I will say this though, Valor is getting better, I suggest that if svergaf wants to make a daring move that we switch to raven first.

Well, the more the merrier if any of you come over to Raven. Why do you all have to go to the same PMC? Why not split up and have different people taste the waters of different PMC's? I haven't noticed much of any difference in Valor or Raven, but obviously people seem to notice a difference between both of them and SVER. Like I said, the stats of where Valor and Raven play seem to indicate that.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Player skill that is claimed won't matter much when there is no one left playing this game.

The player populations speak for themselves, the factions are not better than the others, the factions can beat each other in other maps/modes, but the population is fluctuating away from where the imbalances are.

Seriously it is impossible to have perfect balance in a game designed like MAG with non symmetrical maps. This is why most shooters use rotating/random sides or they make the maps perfectly symmetric so their is no issue. Again the WoW comparison is completely bullshit since as it's been gone over before, the BG's were a small part of the giant game, nor did it deter people from getting what they wanted, which was honor/gear/etc.

Even in board games with similar design properties, they recommend that players switch places to keep things fair. In the table top gaming world, in competitive tournament level play of wargames, they generally have to enforce symmetrical scenarios on the players since a lop sided terrain design can easily just hand the win in favor of someone else.

They want the game to feel fluffy and all that shit, that's nice, but really it's no ideal. Since the begging of team based shooters there have always been things such as map advantages. For players to suddenly act like no such thing could exist and blame it on player skill is just juvenile.

Even if Zipper were to make changes to maps, things are likely not to change since it could just create the opposite problem and suddenly screw the opposing faction's chances. That's not really fair and it will likely lead to patch after patch of map balancing which always will lead to forum arguments.

Really the only solution I think that works out best for everyone is for the rotating sides things, and it not only helps deal with conceived map problems, but it also makes things a bit more interesting since were not always playing the exact same maps and positions. The game shipped with 15 maps? Sure doesn't seem that way since they are locked to specific factional deployments.

The games population numbers really aren't going up, they seem to just being going down in general which doesn't seem to good especially with so many games coming up. The core game here is excellent, but it also needs some help, because the players are basically going to bring it down.

 

[Violater]

Well, the more the merrier if any of you come over to Raven. Why do you all have to go to the same PMC? Why not split up and have different people taste the waters of different PMC's? I haven't noticed much of any difference in Valor or Raven, but obviously people seem to notice a difference between both of them and SVER. Like I said, the stats of where Valor and Raven play seem to indicate that.

For the most part we have played on the other PMC's in the beta, going to raven is just my suggestion.
I will go wherever the squad goes.
Click is in charge.

 

[Lince]

yeah, I'm lvl 60 already so I'll switch to whatever GAF faction FFO, Rick, Cagen, Violater, Click and the rest decide.

On other news I've set up a motion sensor + jamming device loadout for SVER GAF parties, after testing it this morning with some randoms they say it works pretty well, I guess the guys we were facing weren't using the improved stealth skill at all... anyway, it comes at the expense of the medical kit though, can't seem to fit both electronics devices in with it. If we're attacking I'll be using the RPG loadout first to help taking out the towers, then the stealth+jamming for traversing the maps taking AA batteries and stuff and for defending the objectives we've captured I'll just use my Rambo loadout of heavy armor + LMG.

 

[PedroLumpy]

My point was that it will never be the same, so there's no point in bringing it up. There's a lot to factor in: skill, weapon, level/spec, connection. So unless this game has 1 weapon, no specs/levels, and everyone has 0 ping and exactly equal skill - your argument is moot.

While I agree that they will never get it 100% balanced, to suggest that's it's not even worth trying is ridiculous. It'll never be perfect, but it's certainly possible to improve on what's there.

I would have loved to have seen what would've happened if we were able to make 3 characters from the beginning.

 

[Violater]

yeah, I'm lvl 60 already so I'll switch to whatever GAF faction FFO, Rick, Cagen, Violater, Click and the rest decide.
top secret info -_-.

You shouldn't need to carry both, you could carry the motion sensor and I the jammer.

 

[freethought]

As a member of Raven GAF (ShockMegaX) I have this to say. I have played for less than 10 hours, but there is clearly a balance issue with the maps.

Sabotage:

Attacking Valor: This is only attacking map where I have personally experienced any kind of success. We've won once or twice. Considering how hard attacking seems to be in this game, that's saying something.

Defending Raven: We've lost every time I've played this. Not good. Maybe it's because our team sucks, but I'd prefer to think it's the map.

Attacking SVER: Fucking impossible. My stats go in the shitter if I even try to play this most of the time. Never won.

Aquisition:

Attacking Valor: Again, about average. Won once or twice, but still hard.

Attacking SVER: Hard, but won at least once. The easiest of the SVER maps (for what it's worth).

Defending Raven: Great. I've always done well on this map and we've never lost.

Domination: Only played one time, because Raven apparently ignores this mode. I don't blame them.

Attacking SVER: Impossible. I ragequit after a few minutes of constantly dying while making no progress whatsoever. I then immediately went back to Supression (playing against other Raven players, of course) and went 16 - 3. Nothing like good ol' Suppression. Why is it so much easier?

BTW, I have a question for the experts. I'm AR spec, do you recommend sticking with the medium armor (like I have now) or should I go with the heavy?

You're having trouble defending the sabotage map? I've lost games on that map, but I've won plenty of times too. In fact, I think defending the two compounds is one of the easiest tasks available for Raven. Point C can be a bit of a bastard, but A and B can be pretty effectively locked down.

I honestly think the only problems lie in Domination. If SVER really were more skilled, we'd see them dominating every mode but that's just not happening. Raven's Dom map is a nightmare to defend, SVER's is a nightmare to attack and the imbalance is so severe out of the many games of Domination I've played, I've attacked Valor only once.

Really, if Raven is so unskilled, why are we beating SVER in Acquisition? Maybe it's because we're better, but most likely it's because most of SVER plays Domination. I wonder why? Last night the SVER player count in Domination was four times that of Raven's. You SVER guys are delusional if you think the imbalance is because you have more skilled players than the other PMC's.

 

[TheFallen]

While I agree that they will never get it 100% balanced, to suggest that's it's not even worth trying is ridiculous. It'll never be perfect, but it's certainly possible to improve on what's there.

I would have loved to have seen what would've happened if we were able to make 3 characters from the beginning.

When did I say it's not worth trying? I never did. You realize you're just agreeing with what I said? All I said was that there'd always be some sort of complaint if they attempted any balancing of any sort (see: Blizzard), but it will never be balanced 50/50 like a flip of the coin as someone was arguing.

 

[icechai]

Raven will get its due when people all hit 60 and switch over to it one day. I picked SVER because I was Valor in beta, and most of KZ2 GAF is in SVER right now I guess the devs have to do something though if this no Dom Raven thing continues, its a bit ridiculous but I really think its the Raven players. When we do get in a domination map with them, it feels like they just give up. A few nights ago SVERGaf had the most boring game ever when we were defending because no one would come, maybe 2 apcs would come with 2 or 3 people every now and then, but otherwise it was us running around. We eventually ended up in a completely different quadrant helping out another platoon, and still no one really attacked our original spawn area.

One Raven guy was good and came up using the walls for cover and got a lot of kills, but he had no one to heal him when he eventually died. If there were squads full of people like him, there'd probably be a lot more wins for Raven.

 

[Vennt]

Raven will get its due when people all hit 60 and switch over to it one day. I picked SVER because I was Valor in beta, and most of KZ2 GAF is in SVER right now I guess the devs have to do something though if this no Dom Raven thing continues, its a bit ridiculous but I really think its the Raven players. When we do get in a domination map with them, it feels like they just give up. A few nights ago SVERGaf had the most boring game ever when we were defending because no one would come, maybe 2 apcs would come with 2 or 3 people every now and then, but otherwise it was us running around. We eventually ended up in a completely different quadrant helping out another platoon, and still no one really attacked our original spawn area.

One Raven guy was good and came up using the walls for cover and got a lot of kills, but he had no one to heal him when he eventually died. If there were squads full of people like him, there'd probably be a lot more wins for Raven.

You want to know why they give up?

When it comes up as "Raven Defending" or "Raven Attacking SVER" sometimes as much as half of the squad quit straight away, I've entered a Raven Dom match with just three left in the squad before the round starts, the rest put up a small fight and then those that are left (maybe 40-50 players out of 128) think sod it, may as well try for some XP but under no illusions we'll win.

It's nothing to do with skill, go look at the Acquisition games, same game dynamics, different maps, no quitters & plenty of teamwork. Keep telling yourselves it's not the map and it's skill, but really, it isn't.

 

[RomanticHeroX]

I just quit out of matches whenever I'm attacking SVER. I have better ways I could spend 30 minutes. I'm not the only one to do this either, because looking at the platoon screen before the round begins names disappear quickly, which really sucks for the 5 guys who decide to stay.

 

[TheFallen]

yeah, I'm lvl 60 already so I'll switch to whatever GAF faction FFO, Rick, Cagen, Violater, Click and the rest decide.

I'm not entirely sure I want to switch PMCs, mainly because I'm not fond of veteran mode. Having to spend all that time again just to gain back weapons/attachments/leadership sounds like nothing more than a grind. There's no real benefit to it (10%xp is useless at max level), right? But I will go with the bulk of the SVER core group if we do decide to move. I should be 60 by the time J-Rzez finishes his veteran mode. (damn work taking all my time) This weekend I will be busy busy but it will calm down after.