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MAG |OT| 256-Player Battles, Lots of Teamwork, Not So Much Auto-Aim
- Thread starter J-Rzez
- Start date
commish said:
this is what I was trying to explain to both FFO and Violater yesterday, no matter how good we are defending our bunker/pump station and breaking trough the front line of bunkers on Domination, at the end of the day we're heavily outnumbered and this is no game for heroes. I find myself in half-filled squads most of the time ffs.
Wes said:
but instead of bitching about how we can't go past the front line of bunkers we just destroy them all with teamwork. Every comment thus far just reaffirms the idea of SVER having the most skilled players, and they still do, if only because those at Raven/Valor are fucking terrible.
Wes said:
The level of play is night and day imo. When I was playing as sver, I always thought the other factions were stupid, and now that I am playing as them, I am certain that they are stupid. At the same time, the difference in maps is pretty noticeable too. I love Mag, but honestly, I don't see the point in playing much anymore. I know I sound like a dramatic baby and all, but it's just frustrating to watch your team be useless, and even when I was on SVER, it's boring to continually steamroll your opponent every game. I think I had a total of maybe 10 losses total in 50 hours of playtime as SVER. I think I have 3 wins total in 10 hours as Valor. And even if I was in an amazing gaf squad, 1 squad can't prevent the other 120 people (assuming a full platoon - a rarity (hasn't happened yet)) on your team from being idiots.
I'm gonna download the bad company demo.
Lince said:
Wow. Did I even suggest otherwise in that post? All I said was there were intriguing views being expressed.
I was actually going to say it looks like the SVER players were right on a lot of points they made just after the release, in terms of faction skill levels and cohesion.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
commish said:
At first I was going to post, "it's like that with every shooter, dude."
But then it kinda hit me: yeah, it's like that in every shooter, but every other shooter doesn't have a billion players on your team. In other words, if the other games have problems consistently putting together 12- and 16-man teams of any quality, how in the hell is MAG ever going to pull this off?
There's probably some kind of formula to be had here. Take the odds of finding yourself on a truly quality Killzone 2 team, and multiply those by 4. That's your odds of finding yourself on a truly quality MAG team. Might literally never happen, haha.
I had been taking some time off from the game in hopes that in a month or so the community would smarten up a bit and I could return to more cohesive, intelligent experience. The more I think about it, the more I think MAG already plays exactly how it always will, if only because there just aren't enough truly quality players in the first place to fill a match. Even if by sheer luck you land on a team that has 60+ truly quality players, that still leaves 60+ potentially shit players to fill the void; whereas in a game of, say, BFBC2, you only need about 8 quality players to have a pretty good team. Big difference to say the least.
Inanna said:
The other day it was worse, we had a platoon leader that wouldn't shut up, he had setup platton chat as default and the wouldn't stop talking....we couldn't even talk between us because the idiot not only did not stop talking, he was loud as hell. According to him, he was "communicating"
so if anyone gets in a match with a guy named THEDEATHNOTE as leader, get out as soon as possible
Why are Valor OIC's so stupid? It's so critically important to jam, and sweep at the beginning of games, yet it rarely ever happens.
.. also, yesterday their was a squad leader who set the fraggo to repair the mortar battery instead of H. He did this for the entirety of the final fifteen minutes of a tightly contested game. He initiated a vote to kick me when I called him out on it.
.. also, yesterday their was a squad leader who set the fraggo to repair the mortar battery instead of H. He did this for the entirety of the final fifteen minutes of a tightly contested game. He initiated a vote to kick me when I called him out on it.
Wes said:
whatever, I just played a Domination game with FFO and this Valor scrub kept team-killing me and others at the FRAGO just to heal us up immediately after, beautiful, of course he ended with more XP than anyone and 1st place overall, Zipper should fix this shit. And there's a glitch where you can go through walls like a ghost, at least in pump-station F on Valor Domination map.
edit: hope when I switch over to the European-based Raven things are better, as it is now American rednecks are terrible to play with, no mics, no leadership, no coordination, no "valor", no skill, just insane stupidity all around.
polyh3dron
Banned
It seems like these damn invites aren't working half the time. It is so fucking hard to get a group together sometimes.
I had a level 40 squad leader that didn't frago a single thing, and refused to even after everyone was begging him to. Fuck that pisses me off. 40 levels, the guy actually took the time to figure out how to apply to be a squad leader, and then had no idea what it actually meant.
Worst still, we couldn't kick him. The "kick player from squad" button was greyed out. Why does that happen?
Worst still, we couldn't kick him. The "kick player from squad" button was greyed out. Why does that happen?
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
Weekday MAG >>>>>> Weekend MAG, the quality of play this weekend has been atrocious compared to some of the games we saw late last week.
Either MAG network, or PSN has been utter shite for me earlier tonight, couldn't even stay connected to the damned menu for more that 2-3 minutes at a time.
Too many unsuccessful attempts to kick someone leads to the option to vote-kick them being temporaily locked out.
Either MAG network, or PSN has been utter shite for me earlier tonight, couldn't even stay connected to the damned menu for more that 2-3 minutes at a time.
FlyinJ said:
Too many unsuccessful attempts to kick someone leads to the option to vote-kick them being temporaily locked out.
FlyinJ said:
I've noticed the option is grayed out when there's another vote in progress (for other player) or when you've tried to kick the same guy several times without success. Zipper please, patch the game so there's a tutorial on "how to be an efficient Squad/Platoon/Company leader" and you're forced to watch it through before applying for a leadership position for the first time, this is ruining the game the same way stupid Tacticians were ruining Killzone 2 after the last update.
polyh3dron
Banned
Hey vennt, we had a 4 man group going, why did you go off on your own?
polyh3dron
Banned
If you don't have a mic, DO NOT NOMINATE YOURSELF FOR SQUAD LEADER.
Peace.
Peace.
V
Vennt
Unconfirmed Member
polyh3dron said:
I tried accepting the invite, the group froze on me and kicked me from MAG network, tried again and by the time I had a functioning MAG menu I got no response on group chat despite being in a group with you four, I then watched the four of you drop one at a time until I got the "The group has disbanded" message. Had only a few minutes left so tried to get in a game to see if that worked, I lasted 2 minutes before I got dropped from the network again.
Will try again later, currently I'm waterboarding SonOfVennt to find out if he was flooding the home network
Corran Horn
May the Schwartz be with you
I do this with Sabotage from time to time for easy Leader points :lolpolyh3dron said:
Not like you can do a whole lot though
Lince said:
It's still gonna be a few days before I hit SVER 60 so I think I may just wait for you fellas to blast through Valor and I'll join you in Raven. You're all already so far ahead of me in leveling, I'm only gonna get stuck playing with retards once you level up and leave.
Wes said:
Well I think it's proving that we were not just being arrogant fucks playing easy mode. The teamplay with any combination of SVERGAF was always great and then you have to factor in the quality of the members. Click & Cagen are just insane. I don't think i've come across such an indestructable force in any online game i've played. Then you have Lince, FFO, Violater, J-Rzez, Pedro, Poopy, TelemachusD, actually there are too many to list, who are surely in the top 1% playing at the moment. The quality of the squads always amazed me and although it's still fun to play with the SVER lads,Weak spot and Sun-drop were great team-mates last night, it's not the same as rolling with a full GAF squad killing and dominating at will.
polyh3dron
Banned
We were in domination though.Corran Horn said:
It was a RavenGAF member who did it too, his PSN name is djfrazer. That guy should be kicked out of the clan for that IMO.
commish said:
looks like some of them joined SVER, last night a few teammates were by our base sniping, when the enemies were still in the front of G trying to cap it, those snipers couldn't even see anyone wtf. Well i'm 56, will be switching over to Valor soon, hopefully more of the idiot snipers go over to SVER so I don't have to see them
weekend_warrior
Banned
You guys talking about how great Sver is are really blowing smoke out of your asses. Why is Valor doing better at sabotage? Why is Raven doing better at Acquisition? I've spent most of my time playing with Valor but made a 2nd account to infiltrate the ranks of Sver. There is NO discernible difference in the quality of play.
Sver clearly has a huge advantage in Dominations games now. It takes a coordinated effort infiltrate their base, and most of the Valor/ Raven players probable never have. It took me until about the 6th or 7th game to break through. Conversely, it takes NO effort to win on Ravens and Valors map. You could even win on Raven without ever taking the AAA down because you spawn so damn close to the objectives.
Sver clearly has a huge advantage in Dominations games now. It takes a coordinated effort infiltrate their base, and most of the Valor/ Raven players probable never have. It took me until about the 6th or 7th game to break through. Conversely, it takes NO effort to win on Ravens and Valors map. You could even win on Raven without ever taking the AAA down because you spawn so damn close to the objectives.
icechai said:looks like some of them joined SVER, last night a few teammates were by our base sniping, when the enemies were still in the front of G trying to cap it, those snipers couldn't even see anyone wtf. Well i'm 56, will be switching over to Valor soon, hopefully more of the idiot snipers go over to SVER so I don't have to see them
valor is painful. The only time I can stand it is when it's a full gaf squad. And even then, it's fighting a losing battle. In a game like mag, one squad can't make much difference if the other(s) is(are) pathetic. It's not the losing that drives me crazy; it's just HOW we lose, and I'd guess 40% of the time it's from half-full squads and 60% of the time it's from idiots. I was only TK'd once in my own spawn, tho, so that's progress.
KZObsessed
Member
I was actually in a Valor game today with Lince where we beat SVER in Domination with 18 minutes left on the clock. It was easy. Took their bunkers, moved up, Burnoff towers, Cooling Towers, straight to the objectives. Walked through them. Squad leader had a mic, we all went after the the FRAGO together, moving from obj to obj. It was beautiful. So there are obviously some great players on the faction but most are embarrassingly shit.
The majority of the games you either have a squad of 5 or a full squad of retards. They don't follow the FRAGO and just wander off in random directions. I'm sick of being the only jackass actually trying to protect/repair the fucking AAA. Every time I've played Sabotage I've been on a squad full of 2s and 6's who do nothing but go prone and fucking snipe. Or where we take one of the objectives and hold it the whole game yet the other squad does nothing. There's been so many Domination games where we've taken the bunkers and activated the main objective withing a few minutes only to have the other platoons get no where the whole game.
I'm hoping it's simply a matchmatching thing, and because we're lowish levels again we're getting the retards. Hopefully when we're level 50-60 we'll get the "real" players? If not then you'd have to be an idiot to stick with this god awful PMC.
The majority of the games you either have a squad of 5 or a full squad of retards. They don't follow the FRAGO and just wander off in random directions. I'm sick of being the only jackass actually trying to protect/repair the fucking AAA. Every time I've played Sabotage I've been on a squad full of 2s and 6's who do nothing but go prone and fucking snipe. Or where we take one of the objectives and hold it the whole game yet the other squad does nothing. There's been so many Domination games where we've taken the bunkers and activated the main objective withing a few minutes only to have the other platoons get no where the whole game.
I'm hoping it's simply a matchmatching thing, and because we're lowish levels again we're getting the retards. Hopefully when we're level 50-60 we'll get the "real" players? If not then you'd have to be an idiot to stick with this god awful PMC.
PedroLumpy
Member
weekend_warrior said:
Well that's because Valor and Raven flood those gametypes as they like their maps on those modes. More people = more opportunities for points.
Lince said:
You know, I don't think people get exp for doing that. Anytime I've accidentally killed/shot someone and then revived/healed them, I haven't gotten points. Which is perfectly reasonable of course. I hope it works on people who TK you while you're activating an objective. If they get points for arming it standing over my dead body, fuck em.
Still grinding up to 60 in Sabotage, has done wonders for my kill/death ratio though...
Anerythristic
Member
Valor and Raven don't play Domination. I don't understand why you gys can't get it threw your heads.
This really is sickening. These guys NEED to go back to SVER. I played with them, they really,really should be admitting the SVER Dom. map imbalance.
There are not better players on SVER, it's a myth, its mentally tiring, it ruined the game.
This really is sickening. These guys NEED to go back to SVER. I played with them, they really,really should be admitting the SVER Dom. map imbalance.
There are not better players on SVER, it's a myth, its mentally tiring, it ruined the game.
blazinglazers
Member
In this topic: veterans of 4 betas who have now power-leveled and prestiged into new factions complain about noobs & scrubs. It's not that I don't understand your complaints, yes playing with a clan beats randoms and yes, this game lives and dies on teamwork & coordination. At the same time, the disparity between your abilities honed over 100+ hours of playing and those of casuals who're coming over from COD4 & KZ2 who've had the game for a weekend shouldn't be too much of a surprise.FFObsessed said:
You rolled Sever (smartly) because you knew from the beta that it had distinct advantages. You rolled as a group (smartly) to further your advantage. Now, having to mix it up with people who haven't been perfecting their skills over the past 6 months leads to frustration. I totally understand, but it is what it is, you know? It's not the PMCs, it's the game.
The real issue with MAG is there's a dearth of content, and how you experience that content is so dependent on anonymous internet gamers. Worse, the game does the absolute minimum to teach you what's up. Whomever likened this to the chances of getting a decent Killzone 2 match, but multiplied by a factor of 4+ was right on.
It's tough, because I love MAG and think that when it's working, it offers an experience unlike anything else out there on consoles. But when it's not working, it's incredibly frustrating. I'm not sure how to iterate and improve on it, but the design does need work.
tl;dr = don't shit on Valor & good games yesterday ;P
blazinglazers said:
Yeah, because it takes 100 hours of playing to realize that, when the enemy is capturing your objective in sabotage, you should probably stop sniping and try to get it back.
For the record, I didn't beta, I didn't roll with any group, and I didn't pick sver because it has advantages.
IPoopStandingUp said:
I'm.. 18ish, maybe 20 tops. Some are 30, I think the highest is maybe click at...34? 35? As you know, going from 50 to 51 probably takes as long as going from 1 to 15.
Gone are the days of getting 1400 points in domination for me, so leveling is going a bit slower.
CronosBlade
Member
As an addition to the game clicking with me, I'm scoring pretty high each time out now, and my k/d ratio is above 1 now to add to the joy. Also, the sensor jammer is some serious fun.
Liberty4all
Banned
MrPliskin said:
It's not about being a "poor SL". It's about people who aren't being SL's AT ALL while still applying for the position. No Fraggo's no mic, no coordination, no use of tactical strikes (which make a huge difference in game) ....
Never mind how hard it is to win as Raven even when working together, add on a squad leader not setting objectives or using a mic, not using tac strikes and abilities ... it makes for a match made of lose and fail.
It's not that fucking hard to figure out how SL works. I did it on my own, it took about a grand total of 5 minutes to figure out. A typical domination match is about a half hour in length ... that's a half hour of time that SL is wasting for 7 people. So don't give me the "oh that poor SL" crap. It's not like we just opened up on him. He was repeatedly asked to set a fraggo/turn on mic/or transfer Squad leader.
Bottom line, if you take on the responsibility of leading a squad, do your fucking job. If not, expect a boot kick or bullet in the back of the head.
*shrug*
Kholdstare
Member
I just rented the game to see what all the fuss is about. From the look of this thread I guess I'll be joining Valor.
Would I be able to play with some of you people even though I'm currently between usable mics? I'm waiting for my A40 to arrive.
Would I be able to play with some of you people even though I'm currently between usable mics? I'm waiting for my A40 to arrive.
Liberty4all
Banned
dazed808 said:
Ok here's my take ...
There are excellent clans on all the factions. The KEY difference (again this is just my opinion) is that on SVER even pub squads can usually "hold the line" or break through Valor/Raven pub squad defences. This is because of MAP IMBALANCE.
What you guys are feeling right now is what we've been saying all along ... it's never been about skill (clan squads will always be a cut above the rest) ... it's always been about map imbalance. I have no doubt you guys kick ass as a clan squad ... RAVENGaf is the same, regularly holding our bunkers and the AA while the rest of the map has fallen ages ago.
Again just my opinion ... SVER players that switched are undoubtedly very skilled. But the argument that the rest of Valor are crappy pub players ... I don't buy it. Every faction has crappy pub players and skilled clanners alike, the key difference between defeat and victory is the map imbalance.
polyh3dron
Banned
I agree with Bamelin. If the inept leader won't give up his leadership then fuck him.
The nerd raging in this game is hilarious at times. That combined with the proximity chat feature in game makes for some funny moments.
My rag-tag squad of mic-less randoms got the jump on some fairly coordinated clan who initially took objective B from us.
Once we took it back, I can hear someone on the opposing team yell out "I DEMAND TO KNOW HOW THE FUCK WE JUST LOST B" all the while he (and the rest of his squad in the area) were bleeding out on the ground. :lol
My rag-tag squad of mic-less randoms got the jump on some fairly coordinated clan who initially took objective B from us.
Once we took it back, I can hear someone on the opposing team yell out "I DEMAND TO KNOW HOW THE FUCK WE JUST LOST B" all the while he (and the rest of his squad in the area) were bleeding out on the ground. :lol
Anerythristic said:
What's funny is that even Zipper has mentioned a slight imbalance in maps cascading into a larger imbalance, but it's all about the scrubs on non-SVER factions. Of course, when someone who prestiged into a new faction loses, it's because everyone else sucks. When they win, it's personal superior teamwork.
I played in SVER and got to like level 31. Got bored of steam rolling teams with gaf, plus I dislike the "map advantage" bs we heard so I deleted my character and went Valor.
At first I was getting dooked on, I used the M4 and was upgrading that. I got decent with it, but than ran into Click and realized the LMG was the best gun in this faction as well.
Once I xp'd my LMG tree I've stomped on teams regularly. I almost dont see a difference, whenever I play with Gaf in Valor we end up spawn camping teams :\
At first I was getting dooked on, I used the M4 and was upgrading that. I got decent with it, but than ran into Click and realized the LMG was the best gun in this faction as well.
Once I xp'd my LMG tree I've stomped on teams regularly. I almost dont see a difference, whenever I play with Gaf in Valor we end up spawn camping teams :\
KZObsessed
Member
blazinglazers said:
Except I'm not saying that they're all shit compared to the one great FFO, I'm saying that compared to the randoms I played with while in SVER the majority of the ones I've played with so far in Valor have been complete idiots. Now, if that offends you because you happen to have some weird allegiance to your chosen PMC in a videogame, then that's your problem.
My complaints have nothing to do with skill, if you have a god awful k:d ratio going after the objectives, no problem, just at least go for the fucking objectives. Don't sit there and do nothing. Don't wander off randomly. And if you paid attention yesterday, I mentioned how I came across 6 Squad Leaders with no mic all at level 40+ who either didn't FRAGO a thing or FRAGO'd the "wrong" objective. And I mean way wrong.
I've experienced more clueless squad/teammates (at a high level) in my short time with Valor than the 50+ hours I've played with SVER. That's just my experience, as someone who's actually played on both factions. Whether that holds true across the whole of the PMC who knows unless you've played with every single person? All I know is that the players I've played with so far, the majority of the Valor guys have been clueless.
No I did NOT "roll SVER" because I knew they had an advantage. I chose SVER the day MAG was revealed because they looked the most interesting. So you can keep that bullshit sealed up behind your lips in future.
You act like all 128 members of a SVER team are 6 month... vets? There are new players in SVER games as well, the most frustrating thing is all the high level Valor players I've played with who were completely useless. I can forgive if you're level 2 and don't know what to do but is it so hard to follow your squad or listen to what the squad leader tells you? I've also never been team killed so many times as I have now.
It doesn't take 100hrs+ (which I have no where near played) or 4 Betas (of which I've played in 1... for just a few hours) to know you must go to the big flashing icon on your radar. When you're level 40+ you should have figured that out by now.
But yeah, all these idiotic clueless high level players I've come across must only suck due to map imbalance! They don't actually suck! Got it.
Liberty4all
Banned
FFObsessed said:
No they suck.
Just like pubbies on SVER also suck.
The difference is that on Raven and Valor domination defence maps, sucking means losing. On SVER domination it doesn't matter if the pubbies suck, the map is so tilted in favour of the defenders that it's almost impossible to lose.
Don't get me wrong, Raven and Valor clan squads will roll over SVER pubbies ... but clan vs clan? SVER will win every time due to map imbalance. Likewise pubbies versus pubbies (which I would argue are the MAJORITY of squad engagements) ... SVER pubbies will win the majority of the time due to map imbalance.
It has nothing to do with skill and everything to do with the maps being massively tilted in favour of SVER (especially on domination).
This is why RAVEN doesn't play domination and sticks to it's Acquisition map, the same reason Valor sticks with sabotage.
(my opinion)
commish said:
I used to LOVE BC, but MAG has really ruined me. What used to be one of my more primary shooters is now going to be a "break time" game for me. It just feels wrong and clunky, and it's modes are not nearly as fun. The vehicles are fun along with blowing up buildings for a lil while, but then gets old fast due to the core of it's gameplay in comparison. Still a good game though, will be buying it.
As far as the new Valor people are saying, it's exactly my suspicions on the skill pools. I'll find out either later tonight or tomorrow when I move over there.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Just have fun guys! I got a chance to play in a group with Click, Telemachus, and Xplosion, and then a group with FFO, Lince, and Violator? I think..and man it was just a different experience. You guys are all amazing players, but the first group was just more relaxed. The second group was constantly 'ugh these idiots' and 'ugh why raise me without killing them' etc etc. and it was just..a drag. I'm sure your time on SVER was a lot better, for whatever reason, but in the end it's a game and getting to play with you guys is enough fun. I don't need to win every match or get top MVP. Coming to the thread and seeing you guys go on and on about this stuff here too is just like..meh. Also I think the second group was more of EuroGAF and their accents made them sound a lot scarier. :lol
KZObsessed
Member
obonicus said:
Did you not notice how no one has said that the maps are 100% equal in difficulty attacking/defending? What most people on the SVER side have said is that's it's not just 100% down to the maps, which people on the other factions have said. Which now I agree with having played on two factions. (In regards to Valor/SVER anyway, can't comment on Raven yet) And as I just said, this is just in my experience. Someone else could have experienced something completely different.
But hey, what does accurately understanding someones point actually matter in a discussion.
Bamelin said:
You could take that view if you look at the whole battle and who loses/destroys which bunker with the pre-conceived notion that the SVER maps really are just that imbalanced when compared to Valor's and that that's the only cause of each loss/victory. But now I've played extensively on both sides (I assume you have as well?) I havn't noticed taking SVERs bunkers on Domination to be at all harder than taking those of Valor when we were attacking them. Raven's were definitely easier tho. I always looked forward to playing attacking Raven's domination because we would steam roll through the randoms. In fact we've manged (with randoms) to take SVER's bunkers everytime I've played them, it's when we have to start taking the main objectives where everyone seems to be clueless. There's no imbalanced Bunker placements at this point, just clueless people.
In fact I really enjoy attacking SVER, much more than defending Valor's map, because no one defends the AAA or even tries to get it back up. When SVER are attacking they always go charging towards the AAA I FRAGO it almost immediately when the first guy starts to make his way there. After that I'm left there defending it by myself, when I eventually get killed, no one from the squad comes. No one tried to repair it when it's down. People just want to camp near the turret or near the end objective and rack up their FRAGO points. So far, in my experience the players I have come across in many games playing with Valor are much more clueless than those of SVER. And I'm talking about high level players.
I also don't feel that SVER's map is really that much harder to take than Valor's. Maybe a little but not so much that it's the only or even most significant reason that the Valor players I've played with have been so terrible and have gotten stomped on. Because it's not just the fact that they lose a bunker, or can't take a bunker. It's simple decision making. Failing to use APC's properly or in any way intelligently, not going to the FRAGO'd objective. FRAGOing the "wrong" objective. Not understanding the roles of the different objectives on the map. The games so far have been littered with all these instances from high ranked players. Sure, this can happen with SVER too, but in 50hours of SVER and ~15 of Valor (pretty much all domination) I'm seen it happen much more with Valor players than in the much larger time with SVER.
Now could this just be a coincidence and bad luck on my part? Very much so, as I said others might have varying experiences, but this is mine.
Raven, I havn't played with yet, so I can't comment more on how imbalanced the maps are in comparison. But as I said I did find taking the bunkers on Ravens side to be much easier than taking Valor's while playing as SVER and much easier than taking SVERs now that I'm with Valor.