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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|

W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Firemind said:
By that logic Richard Garfield should be in the hall of fame. Shit, he invented Magic.
Click to expand...

Shit, by any logic Garfield should be in.

It's only a matter of time before they follow suit of EVERY OTHER HALL OF FAME ON THE ENTIRE PLANET AND EVERY PLANE IN EXISTENCE before they drop the "Pro Tour" part and rebrand it as it should be - "Magic: The Gathering Hall of Fame"

It's not the Super Bowl Hall of Fame for a reason. Cooperstown isn't only for the best pitchers in the game. It's an entire world that revolves around the game.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
WanderingWind said:
Shit, by any logic Garfield should be in.

It's only a matter of time before they follow suit of EVERY OTHER HALL OF FAME ON THE ENTIRE PLANET AND EVERY PLANE IN EXISTENCE before they drop the "Pro Tour" part and rebrand it as it should be - "Magic: The Gathering Hall of Fame"

It's not the Super Bowl Hall of Fame for a reason. Cooperstown isn't only for the best pitchers in the game. It's an entire world that revolves around the game.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but its a slippery slope. Should TOs be included? Should writers like Mike Flores be included? It all comes down to how good a player you are. Strong writing helped Patrick Chapin get in, but he also had a quality resume of 4 PT Top 8s to go with it. Bram Snepvangers was a big part of European TO, but also had 4 Top 8s.

And cheating is another subject. Saito was elected in 2010, but was then suspended and had his spot taken away. Even still, he is a legendary deckbuilder and warped an entire Pro Tour (PT Gatecrash) with his Twitter account, tweeting out decks (like his R/G aggro deck) that affected the Metagame.

It's not the Magic Hall of Fame, its the Pro Tour Hall of Fame. The way it is now is fine.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
So I'm looking at making a mono-black deck, this combo got me thinking about it:

thrullparasite56krc.jpg
heartlesssummoningvmjfi.jpg
mikaeustheunhallowedv1k5b.jpg


What are some important cards for Heartless Summoning? Vampire Nighthawks? Extorters like Basilica Screecher?
 
S

Sinatar

Official GAF Bottom Feeder
That's a nonbo since Heartless summoning kills your thrull.

Generall heartless summoning wants to go real big, griselbrands and things like that.
 
K

kirblar

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74114483]So I'm looking at making a mono-black deck, this combo got me thinking about it:

thrullparasite56krc.jpg
heartlesssummoningvmjfi.jpg
mikaeustheunhallowedv1k5b.jpg


What are some important cards for Heartless Summoning? Vampire Nighthawks? Extorters like Basilica Screecher?[/QUOTE]
Heartless Summoning decks want to essentially treat it like a Farscape. So your curve should look like 2->4/5/6 etc., much like say, a Jund deck. Going base G/B in order to run Farscape on top of Summoning might not be the worst idea.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
kirblar said:
Heartless Summoning decks want to essentially treat it like a Farscape. So your curve should look like 2->4/5/6 etc., much like say, a Jund deck. Going base G/B in order to run Farscape on top of Summoning might not be the worst idea.
Click to expand...

Man, I forgot Farscape existed.

And I think you meant Farseek. :)
 
N

Negator

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74114483]So I'm looking at making a mono-black deck, this combo got me thinking about it:
What are some important cards for Heartless Summoning? Vampire Nighthawks? Extorters like Basilica Screecher?[/QUOTE]

Some of the more powerful things you can do is abuse creatures with enter the battlefield triggers or complete gamechangers. The new Shadowborn Demon and Griselbrand are high impact cards that benefit greatly.

Going Jund (Black/Red/Green) gives you access to powerful creatures like Thragtusk, Sire of Insanity, and I'm sure even a 2/2 Olivia would be freaking scary.
 
J

JMizzlin

Member
Has anyone redeemed the promo from the video games using a phone? I don't have access to a printer and was going to swing by my local game store and pick up the Booster from my 360 game.
 
W

WanderingWind

Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
bigkrev said:
Yeah, but its a slippery slope. Should TOs be included? Should writers like Mike Flores be included? It all comes down to how good a player you are. Strong writing helped Patrick Chapin get in, but he also had a quality resume of 4 PT Top 8s to go with it. Bram Snepvangers was a big part of European TO, but also had 4 Top 8s.

And cheating is another subject. Saito was elected in 2010, but was then suspended and had his spot taken away. Even still, he is a legendary deckbuilder and warped an entire Pro Tour (PT Gatecrash) with his Twitter account, tweeting out decks (like his R/G aggro deck) that affected the Metagame.

It's not the Magic Hall of Fame, its the Pro Tour Hall of Fame. The way it is now is fine.
Click to expand...

Any Hall of Fame that disallows the creator of the game in is most certainly not "fine." It's fundamentally broken. I again point to literally every single Hall of Fame for anything, ever. Yes, certain influencers, writers and the other pistons behind making the game large enough for us to have a Hall of Fame discussion should be allowed the chance.

Not sure about the cheating thing. Again, very few instances of proven cheaters exist in other Hall of Fames. I mean, if you got caught cheating, it's almost certain that you've cheated before and of course it's easy to win if you cheat. So yeah, same rules apply for Saito as Pete Rose.
 
K

Kacar

Member
Does something like Parralax Wave that exiles and bring stuff back remove the counters from a creature? Or would they stay on when they come back?
 
U

ultron87

Member
Kacar said:
Does something like Parralax Wave that exiles and bring stuff back remove the counters from a creature? Or would they stay on when they come back?
Click to expand...
It removes them. Whenever a creature leaves the battlefield and comes back it comes back as an entirely new thing with no relation to the old creature.

Unless it phases out? I dunno. Phasing is weird.
 
A

An-Det

Member
Went 2-2 tonight in Modern playing UWR midrangey control (similar to what Cheon has been playing recently). I've watched streams and read up a lot on the deck, but there's nothing quite like actually getting some games in.

Round 1 was against a UBrg artifact control thing, using Tezzeret the Seeker, a Trinket Mage package, Academy Ruins, and other stuff. Really cool deck, long games but I pulled it out. Game 1 was really weird though as I was trying to figure out what the fuck he was playing. Round 2 was against Infect. I thought he was on a Gruul zoo kinda thing from talking with him before the event, so I got steamrolled game 1. Game 2 was easy, game 3 I kept a meh hand and got punished for it. Round 3 was against a Phyrexian Unlife-Ad Nauseum combo deck (killing with Conflagrate). my hand was controlly with some pressure, but I was confused as hell as to what was going on and lost. Game 2 was better but didn't have as much pressure and lost. Round 4 was against Melira Pod. Completely destroyed him, it wasn't even fair.

The meta there represents most of the major decks, so definitely good to play. Loving the deck so far, didn't get the chance to use all of my sideboard so not sure if need to change it up. Can't wait for next week.
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
I don't understand why those Ad Nauseum decks are playing Conflagrate, they're just copying what they saw on MTGO. Lightning Storm is much better because it's an instant and you can combo off in response when your opponent taps out.
 
N

Negator

Member
Wow. 8 UWR Flash decks, 5 Jund decks, and one of Naya, Gruul, and Boros aggro.

Not a very diverse set of standard decks in the world championships.

Feels like I'm playing the wrong decks.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Azn_Boy said:
I don't understand why those Ad Nauseum decks are playing Conflagrate, they're just copying what they saw on MTGO. Lightning Storm is much better because it's an instant and you can combo off in response when your opponent taps out.
Click to expand...

Lightning Storm is an instant, which is sweet, but it can be harder to get enough damage to actually kill depending upon how much life they've gained and how many lands they have in their hand. I once had a game against Soul Sisters where it was entirely impossible for me to win because there just weren't enough lands in my deck to kill him. My only out was for him to scoop when I comboed out - fortunately for me he did. If I had been running Conflagrate, I wouldn't have had that problem (which is why you often see Conflagrate as a one-of in the sideboard of those decks).

Regardless, those decks are janky pieces of crap anyway. Fun for a lark, but terrible if you like actually winning.

The bottom-tier combo decks in Modern are actually quite fun if you don't mind losing. My favorite is the Necrotic Ooze dredge deck:

Get Ooze on the table. Have a red and black mana available. Have a Sphinx of the Chimes in the yard. Pitch two dredge cards to the Ooze via Sphinx, then dredge them back to fill up the yard. Give the Ooze haste via a Flinthoof Boar in the yard. Activate the Sphinx to deck yourself, hold priority, then sac the Sphinx via a Doomed Necromancer in the yard to reanimate a Laboratory Maniac. Win.
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
Negator said:
Wow. 8 UWR Flash decks, 5 Jund decks, and one of Naya, Gruul, and Boros aggro.

Not a very diverse set of standard decks in the world championships.

Feels like I'm playing the wrong decks.
Click to expand...

They're just playing the safest decks. Pro players have a tendency to play blue decks at big events anyways.

f0rk said:
They should do cube or something that's actually interesting
Click to expand...

The draft rounds for M14 are also pseudo advertising for the new set.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
World Magic Cup isn't the easiest thing to watch. Just watched a Jund player on Mexico make literally the only play that made him dead based on information he had (Craterhoof in hand). Paul Rietzel summed it up by calling it "Minor League Baseball with a star or 2 on rehab assignment"
 
U

ultron87

Member
They should really change the qualification process so it gets closer to the actual best players from each country instead of "the best player + 3 randos".

I think that one guy who wrote that crazy long 4 part manifesto on fixing Magic coverage on SCG suggested that they should have the captain just pick the rest of the team. That seems like it could work out better.
 
A

Azn_Boy

Neo Member
ultron87 said:
They should really change the qualification process so it gets closer to the actual best players from each country instead of "the best player + 3 randos".

I think that one guy who wrote that crazy long 4 part manifesto on fixing Magic coverage on SCG suggested that they should have the captain just pick the rest of the team. That seems like it could work out better.
Click to expand...

Top players are invited to the qualifiers. You can pin the blame on the pro players for not being able to qualify with three different chances.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
kirblar said:
The qualifier system is broken in large countries.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's basically a PTQ with one slot to first and a 2 Booster Box fuck you for second place. How far are YOU willing to travel for a PTQ?

Hey should just bring back Nationals for the US, have the top 4 be the national team.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Is it just me, or are control decks way more fun to play than combo decks? There just seems to be a certain mindlessness with the latter.

Also, for someone who only plays magic through drafts with friends, what should I know to follow competitive magic? I don't really understand the appeal right now.
 
E

EsotericManiac

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74399863]Is it just me, or are control decks way more fun to play than combo decks? There just seems to be a certain mindlessness with the latter.

Also, for someone who only plays magic through drafts with friends, what should I know to follow competitive magic? I don't really understand the appeal right now.[/QUOTE]

what control deck were you referencing when you say "mindlessness"? ANT and Storm take a ton of thought. A lot more math is involved with these decks than your standard control deck.

maybe you are directly referring to interactions with your opponent.

have you ever seen someone play High Tide?
 
E

EsotericManiac

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74407151]Man I don't know the names of decks at all lol[/QUOTE]

The player invitational last weekend (SCG) had a few of these combo decks near the top tables as well as the legacy event that followed.
 
E

EsotericManiac

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74407587]Man these legacy decks have some out-there combos.[/QUOTE]

some decks just have a hard time beating them. other times, people have no experience playing them or how to go about beating them.

sometimes, the combo deck just has it on turn 2 and goes for it.

but then other times, Gerard Fabiano just force of wills all their brainstorms and the combo deck loses
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Yeah, I know nothing about legacy other than the major cards. My constructed decks are both modern, and they're not super strong. I've got a Bant deck focused on Eldrazi Conscription with a bunch of flexible control options, and my other deck is Johnny, Combo Player.

Other than that, I just draft it up a couple times a week. I've been playing on and off for the last... 18 years? But mostly casually.
 
E

EsotericManiac

Banned
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";74408831]Yeah, I know nothing about legacy other than the major cards. My constructed decks are both modern, and they're not super strong. I've got a Bant deck focused on Eldrazi Conscription with a bunch of flexible control options, and my other deck is Johnny, Combo Player.

Other than that, I just draft it up a couple times a week. I've been playing on and off for the last... 18 years? But mostly casually.[/QUOTE]

i was just trying to let you know combo decks can be very hard to play optimally and require a lot of thought, really.

i find control fun to play because you have so many possible choices. sometimes, the optimal play is only made aware to you turns later when you find out it was the wrong play

i've also had the opposite happen where I'm literally 2 seconds from conceding and find the play that wins me the game right there, but that was blue/red combo deck lol
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
Well if you only find out it was the wrong play turns later then was it really the wrong play? It's not like you can see your opponent's hand with most decks.

That's why my only standard deck is focused on constant discarding, don't want them to get started.

I still don't know anything about the competitive scene, though.

By the way, can anybody give me advice for my mono-black standard deck? Right now it's all random cards I pulled from drafts.

3x Shadow Alley Denizen
3x Thrull Parasite
3x Drainpipe Vermin
3x Codex Shredder

3x Basilica Screecher
2x Contaminated Ground

3x Deathcult Rogue
3x Nightveil Specter
3x Mind Rot
2x Underworld Connections

4x Grisly Spectacle
2x Mental Vapors

2x Undercity Plague

20x Swamp
4x Rogue's Passage

Sideboard:
2x Shimian Specter

Just a lot of milling and discard, as well as intimidate/unblockable + Spectres with cipher.
 
H

Hero

Member
EsotericManiac said:
what control deck were you referencing when you say "mindlessness"? ANT and Storm take a ton of thought. A lot more math is involved with these decks than your standard control deck.

maybe you are directly referring to interactions with your opponent.

have you ever seen someone play High Tide?
Click to expand...

Eh, I really wouldn't count ANT/Storm as taking too much thought. Game 1 basically all you have to do is be able to count. It's only in Game 2/3 when you have hate boarded against you that you have to start thinking. Even then it's usually pretty clear what you have to do or can't let resolve. It's not like control where you have to ask yourself if something is worth countering, saving for a counter war, taking damage, etc.
 
E

EsotericManiac

Banned
Hero said:
Eh, I really wouldn't count ANT/Storm as taking too much thought. Game 1 basically all you have to do is be able to count. It's only in Game 2/3 when you have hate boarded against you that you have to start thinking. Even then it's usually pretty clear what you have to do or can't let resolve. It's not like control where you have to ask yourself if something is worth countering, saving for a counter war, taking damage, etc.
Click to expand...

i did mention that they have less interaction, which is what I think you're referring to
 
H

Hero

Member
EsotericManiac said:
i did mention that they have less interaction, which is what I think you're referring to
Click to expand...

Sure, but I think that goes hand in hand. Combo decks like that are centered around doing one engine. ANT/TES/High Tide pretty much all involves being able to count your spells and your mana and make sure you get to lethal via damage or card draw.
 
K

kirblar

Member
EsotericManiac said:
some decks just have a hard time beating them. other times, people have no experience playing them or how to go about beating them.

sometimes, the combo deck just has it on turn 2 and goes for it.

but then other times, Gerard Fabiano just force of wills all their brainstorms and the combo deck loses
Click to expand...
Yeah, normally you don't want to go after cantrips. Brainstorm's a huge exception- if you can choke someone off without lowering your shields, you should almost always do it.
 
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