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[The Technomancer]

Ah, that's cool. I pretty much sat out of MtG from Visions or so to Innistrad so missed all of that. Thanks!

Time Spiral block is simultaneously probably the best and worst thing the "modern" Magic R&D has ever done. Its kind of fascinating for all its weirdness. I love the block to death but I recognize it wasn't healthy for the game. It was full of weird shit like that.

 

[kirblar]

Time Spiral block is simultaneously probably the best and worst thing the "modern" Magic R&D has ever done. Its kind of fascinating for all its weirdness. I love the block to death but I recognize it wasn't healthy for the game. It was full of weird shit like that.

Time Spiral (the set) is amazing.

Time Spiral (the block) is a hot mess.

 

[The Technomancer]

Time Spiral (the set) is amazing.

Time Spiral (the block) is a hot mess.

But I fucking love it on a conceptual level. The reality-shifted cards in Planar Chaos. The sheer insanity of Future Sight. Not to mention Suspend is one of my top three mechanics of all time still.

 

[kirblar]

But I fucking love it on a conceptual level. The reality-shifted cards in Planar Chaos. The sheer insanity of Future Sight. Not to mention Suspend is one of my top three mechanics of all time still.

Planar Chaos should have just been "non-Dominaria" cards showing up. The concept just didn't make any sense.

 

[The Technomancer]

Planar Chaos should have just been "non-Dominaria" cards showing up. The concept just didn't make any sense.

I don't know, maybe its because I was reading design articles at the time but the PC timeshifted cards did make sense to me. They weren't as exciting as the timeshifted cards from TS or FS but I thought they were nifty on a mechanical level.

 

[The Technomancer]

Also this guy:

 

[kirblar]

I don't know, maybe its because I was reading design articles at the time but the PC timeshifted cards did make sense to me. They weren't as exciting as the timeshifted cards from TS or FS but I thought they were nifty on a mechanical level.

If you opened a pack, you actually had no idea what was going on. The set could not possibly communicate the gimmick to the player through the cards alone. (Time Spiral could, as long as that player had a minimal familiarity with the game's history.)

 

[The Technomancer]

If you opened a pack, you actually had no idea what was going on. The set could not possibly communicate the gimmick to the player through the cards alone. (Time Spiral could, as long as that player had a minimal familiarity with the game's history.)

Fair enough. You would need to get a TC card that was specifically something iconic you knew, like the red Black Knight or the green Ball Lightning

 

[Crocodile]

Time Spiral block is always a weird subject for me. R&D goes on and on as to how the block was unfriendly to new players and I can certainly understand their argument, it makes total sense. Yet I started playing Magic with Dissension and thought Time Spiral block was awesome.

"You know this Magic thing you just started playing? Here's what happened in the past 10+ years you weren't playing. Enjoy "

It makes me feel like a weirdo compared to the apparent MTG population at large

 

[Inmolatus]

It's good enough to mainboard.
Let's list what heavy hitters its protected from:
Abrupt Decay
Advent of the Wurm
Aurelia's Fury
Azorius Charm
Boros Reckoner
Burning Tree Emissary
Call of the Conclave
Cartel Aristocrat
Centaur Healer
Detention Sphere
Dimir Charm
Domri Rade (!!!)
Dreadbore
Dreg Mangler
Dryad Militant
Fleecemane Lion
Frostburn Weird
Izzet Charm
Izzet Staticaster
Loxodon Smiter
Obzedat, Ghost Council
Orzhov Charm
Rakdos Cackler
Ral Zarek
Spike Jester
Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Voice of Resurgence (!!!)
Warleader's Helix
Warped Physique
Xenagos, the Reveler's token creature

It's easily a 4 of in a white aggro deck.

Not Advent of the wurm / Call of the conclave, they make green tokens.

 

[kirblar]

Time Spiral block is always a weird subject for me. R&D goes on and on as to how the block was unfriendly to new players and I can certainly understand their argument, it makes total sense. Yet I started playing Magic with Dissension and thought Time Spiral block was awesome.

"You know this Magic thing you just started playing? Here's what happened in the past 10+ years you weren't playing. Enjoy "

It makes me feel like a weirdo compared to the apparent MTG population at large

Like, the first set actually plays relatively well - except that Suspend just sucks.

And then it just got weird.

 

[The Technomancer]

Like, the first set actually plays relatively well - except that Suspend just sucks.

And then it just got weird.

Can't disagree more. What problems do you have with it?

 

[Crocodile]

Like, the first set actually plays relatively well - except that Suspend just sucks.

And then it just got weird.

Future Sight remains one of my favorite sets ever Mix n' Match just tickles my fancy something strong and I loved how they used Scry in the set. I have no idea why Bridge from Below is a card though. Reads like design masturbation

Planar Chaos was the low point of the block though. Still better than the entirety of Shards block or Shadoowmoor/Eventide though

 

[kirblar]

Can't disagree more. What problems do you have with it?

The "creature has haste" part of it (due to low-level players attacking with it immediately" made things obnoxious. As did the "t1 suspend, t2 suspend" u/g curveouts where you suddenly had these ridiculous fat creatures coming after you later. It was clunky, didn't play well, and really just was a pain. (And note: I loooove fading/vasnishing.)

 

[The Technomancer]

Future Sight remains one of my favorite sets ever

Planar Chaos was the low point of the block though. Still better than the entirety of Shards block or Shadoowmoor/Eventide though

Shards block is one where I differ from the community: I just find the entire thing really meh. I barely remember it, hell, I wouldn't if the shard names weren't the tri-color deck slang for the last five years.

Shadowmoor and Eventide I think are awesome though. Love the aesthetics, love a lot of the mechanics, and I think the hybrid focused design was really interesting.

 

[kirblar]

Shards block is one where I differ from the community: I just find the entire thing really meh. I barely remember it, hell, I wouldn't if the shard names weren't the tri-color deck slang for the last five years.

Shadowmoor and Eventide I think are awesome though. Love the aesthetics, love a lot of the mechanics, and I think the hybrid focused design was really interesting.

Shard of Alara is awful and got rescued by the following two sets.

 

[Yeef]

Demonheart Chimera (U)

1UR

Creature - Chimera

Flying, Trample

Demonheart Chimera's power is equal to the number of instant and sorceries in your graveyard.

*/3

[EDIT] Shards is one of my favorite sets (though I never got the chance to draft it). Conflux was just okay and Alara Reborn I didn't like much at all.

 

[The Technomancer]

The "creature has haste" part of it (due to low-level players attacking with it immediately" made things obnoxious. As did the "t1 suspend, t2 suspend" u/g curveouts where you suddenly had these ridiculous fat creatures coming after you later. It was clunky, didn't play well, and really just was a pain. (And note: I loooove fading/vasnishing.)

I didn't follow the competitive scene then, so that might be some of the difference in perception. From my perspective it did what I'm coming to realize is a hallmark of my favorite mechanics: switched up the pacing and structure of the game. Not every mechanic should do that, and I would argue most actually shouldn't, but on reflection Suspend and Landfall are the two mechanics I have the fondest memories playing with. Suspend for the way it very visibly put clocks for certain effects on the board and thus influenced how both players handled their next few moves and Landfall the first time it was late-game in a Draft match and I was actively wanting to draw a land, something that normally would be completely the opposite case, so I could give my Geyser Glider flying to swing for lethal and I had this lightbulb moment of "oh....I get it"

 

[The Technomancer]

Alara Reborn is another one of those sets like Planar Chaos that I like on a theoretical level, as in I like what it attempts, but it really kind of bungled the execution. Its probably the single best example I can think of of how you can't build a set around a single gimmick. I mean, people complain about Limited fodder these days, but never forget:

Just...a lot of messy design in that set.

 

[Crocodile]

Shards block is one where I differ from the community: I just find the entire thing really meh. I barely remember it, hell, I wouldn't if the shard names weren't the tri-color deck slang for the last five years.

Shadowmoor and Eventide I think are awesome though. Love the aesthetics, love a lot of the mechanics, and I think the hybrid focused design was really interesting.

I think Shards was liked because EDH was really coming into its own around then and the set introduced tons of multicolor legends (especially three color ones) for people to use. I wasn't a fan of how often a third color felt randomly jammed onto cards and the limited environment sucked. At one point I had over 100 packs worth of prize packs but just stopped drafting after a while because I wasn't having fun. One of the few limited formats I didn't see all the way through.

Also, Shards was the first time NWO was introduced. Even as a relatively new player and before WOTC openly talked about NWO I could tell something was "off" about Shards just from looking at the spoiler. Granted, nowadays WOTC is able to produce compelling sets that are NWO compliant but they were definitely fumbling around when they started out.

My dislike for Shadowmoor + Eventide stems mostly from how much I hated the limited environment. The sets were also a bit too "cycle-centric" for my tastes. Coming off of Lorwyn (U/W Merfolk is one of my favorite decks to draft ever) I was super dissapointed.

On a side note, I agree with you that Suspend was sweet, especially cards that did something when Suspended like Greater Gargadon. I loved the way it turned sequencing and mana usage on its head. I like being able to include seven drops in my deck that maintain utility even if I never get to seven lands. Also allowed for some interesting decision making.

 

[The Technomancer]

I think Shards was liked because EDH was really coming into its own around then and the set introduced tons of multicolor legends (especially three color ones) for people to use. I wasn't a fan of how often a third color felt randomly jammed onto cards and the limited environment sucked. At one point I had over 100 packs worth of prize packs but just stopped drafting after a while because I wasn't having fun. One of the few limited formats I didn't see all the way through.

This is probably the best way I can describe my problem with Alara. Almost ironically the shard identities worked better for me on mono-color cards where they could be single aspects of a larger philosophy whereas on the three color cards things often felt like a mess.

This is the most I've thought about that block in years

 

[Sinatar]

Demonheart Chimera (U)

1UR

Creature - Chimera

Flying, Trample

Demonheart Chimera's power is equal to the number of instant and sorceries in your graveyard.

*/3

[EDIT] Shards is one of my favorite sets (though I never got the chance to draft it). Conflux was just okay and Alara Reborn I didn't like much at all.

Runechanters pike in creature form. Meeh.

 

[bigkrev]

Demonheart Chimera (U)

1UR

Creature - Chimera

Flying, Trample

Demonheart Chimera's power is equal to the number of instant and sorceries in your graveyard.

*/3

[EDIT] Shards is one of my favorite sets (though I never got the chance to draft it). Conflux was just okay and Alara Reborn I didn't like much at all.

Uh, holy shit.

was one of the best finishers of its time, and this costs 1/3rd the mana.

 

[The Technomancer]

Uh, holy shit.

was one of the best finishers of its time, and this costs 1/3rd the mana.

3 toughness though.

 

[Yeef]

3 toughness though.

And only your graveyard, not all graveyards.

 

[ultron87]

And only your graveyard, not all graveyards.

But Sorceries too!

 

[JulianImp]

So, remember how I said I was looking for things I could add to my U/R deck as replacements for the cards which will be rotating soon? Well...

 

[ThLunarian]

The only reason people played Cognivore is because stuff like Darksteel, Blightsteel, Sundering Titan, Progenitus, and the Eldrazi hadn't been printed yet. It's a really bad card.

The Chimera is much better, of course. Hard to say how much better, but for three mana it's a good bargain.

 

[OnPoint]

The only reason people played Cognivore is because stuff like Darksteel, Blightsteel, Sundering Titan, Progenitus, and the Eldrazi hadn't been printed yet. It's a really bad card.

The Chimera is much better, of course. Hard to say how much better, but for three mana it's a good bargain.

Good God have they really pushed the envelope as this game has progressed. I never really thought about it all laid out like that before.

 

[An-Det]

Good God have they really pushed the envelope as this game has progressed. I never really thought about it all laid out like that before.

They really have. Even smaller stuff like the strictly better Watchwolf or the crazy better Savannah Lions in this set show where we are compared to even just a few years ago. On the same note, there was a section in Brian Demars's SCG article today that touches on the subject of how crazy creatures are these days:

My friend Jon Johnson told me about an incident last year where an old-time player showed up to a local Legacy tournament with his old-school Mono-Black deck and somebody Showed and Told him about a Japanese language Emrakul into play. The guy asked:

"What does that card do?"

"Well, its a 15/15, flying, can't be the target of colored spells, uncounterable creature that if I cast gives me an extra turn and that has annihilator 6."

"What's annihilator six?"

"Well, when I attack, you have to sacrifice six of your permanents."

The old-school guy did not believe the card was a real card, and a judge had to be called to confirm that Emrakul, the Aeons Torn is actually real and does what it does.

 

[y2dvd]

Not Advent of the wurm / Call of the conclave, they make green tokens.

Ah, thanks for the correction. It's still protected by a lot of strong cards though.

Went 6-0 in tonight's M14 draft. I went Jund and breeze through. The first 3 picks were different colors lol. I'm learning to draft with options open early instead of forcing myself to build something outta the first card I picked and it worked out pretty well. Wish I pulled some rares though. People around me were pulling Kolanian Hydra, Archangel of Thune, and Mutavaults and I get stuck with Thorncaster Sliver 3rd pack. -_-

1xChild of the Night
1xYoung Pyromancer
1xDragon Hatchling
1xMindsparker
1xBriarpack Alpha
1xRumbling Baloth
1xAccursed Spirit
2xMarauding Maulhorn
2xPitchburn Devils
2xSengir Vampire

1xGiant Growth
3xShocks
1xPlummet (yep mainboarded it!)
1xVerdant Haven (what a great mana fixer for my double G or B cards)
1xHunt the Weak
2xDoom Blade
1xChandra's Outrage

9xMountains
4xSwamps
4xForest

Noteable sideboard:
Smelt
Ranger's Guilde
Duress
Fogs

Gonna draft the hell outta Theros like twice a week.

 

[bigkrev]

They really have. Even smaller stuff like the strictly better Watchwolf or the crazy better Savannah Lions in this set show where we are compared to even just a few years ago. On the same note, there was a section in Brian Demars's SCG article today that touches on the subject of how crazy creatures are these days:

Then explain to that guy that Counterspell now costs 1UU, Stone Rain now costs 3R, Dark Ritual now costs 1R, and Armageddon is considered "too unfun to print"

 

[ultron87]

The spoiled cycle of auras is whatever, but the story about Elspeth leaving New Phyrexia is cool: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/263

 

[WanderingWind]

Then explain to that guy that Counterspell now costs 1UU, Stone Rain now costs 3R, Dark Ritual now costs 1R, and Armageddon is considered "too unfun to print"

But Counterspell and Stone Rain wouldn't beat Show and Tell Emrakul.

See? Creatures went to 11, spells went to 9, with the occasional spike like Sphinx's Revelation.

 

[Yeef]

 

[Hero]

You can't compare Show & Tell, a card made back in Urza's block, to the spells of today.

Magic has changed to focus more on creatures and board interaction than spells. Creatures are stronger than they were before, you can't say the same about spells.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Now this guy I like. That's value right there.

 

[Sinatar]

But Counterspell and Stone Rain wouldn't beat Show and Tell Emrakul.

See? Creatures went to 11, spells went to 9, with the occasional spike like Sphinx's Revelation.

That's being charitable, I'd says spells are about a 6.

 

[ThLunarian]

The spoiled cycle of auras is whatever, but the story about Elspeth leaving New Phyrexia is cool: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/263

Stuff like this just makes me clamor for a major story-related block that makes all of these plot threads they've weaved come together.

I want to see New Phyrexia invade Ravnica and watch the guilds band together against them. I want to see Nicol Bolas face off against the gods of Theros. I want to see the Eldrazi move to conquer Dominaria. I want to see shit hit the fan.

 

[Sinatar]

Said cycle of auras (it's a full cycle around that red aura that was spoiled in the duel deck).

Really genuinely terrible cards. If the second effect occurred when the enchantment hit the bin then at least it wouldn't be so bad when you inevitably get 2 for 1'd.

 

[The Technomancer]

Stuff like this just makes me clamor for a major story-related block that makes all of these plot threads they've weaved come together.

I want to see New Phyrexia invade Ravnica and watch the guilds band together against them. I want to see Nicol Bolas face off against the gods of Theros. I want to see the Eldrazi move to conquer Dominaria. I want to see shit hit the fan.

I'm not sure if they'll do that, unfortunately. Its the kind of thing I'd like to see exist, but, well, Weatherlight didn't work out that well way back when and I think they'd worry about the lack of a coherent world and things being constructed entirely from old material would be confusing as hell to new players.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

That's being charitable, I'd says spells are about a 6.

Spells were overpowered. Creatures were underpowered. A lot of that happened simply because they didn't know what they were doing back then.

I'm of the opinion that they've overcorrected at this point, but they're much closer to the correct middle ground now than they were even just a few years ago.

I'm not sure if they'll do that, unfortunately. Its the kind of thing I'd like to see exist, but, well, Weatherlight didn't work out that well way back when and I think they'd worry about the lack of a coherent world and things being constructed entirely from old material would be confusing as hell to new players.

And then there are players like me who have to have the flavor explained to them on half the cards.

Some of the obvious flavor stuff sticks with me, but blocks and storylines mean nothing to me. It's set dressing. To me, Grislebrand is a card with some abilities. I know there's a Helvault and he apparently has some sort of beef with Liliana, but I honestly don't care. You say "Grislebrand" and the card's text pops up. Nothing more.

 

[Sinatar]

The thing is, they can leave creatures at their current crazy state, just up the spell power a bit to balance things out. If they're going to nuts, they might as go nuts both ways.

 

[ThLunarian]

I'm not sure if they'll do that, unfortunately. Its the kind of thing I'd like to see exist, but, well, Weatherlight didn't work out that well way back when and I think they'd worry about the lack of a coherent world and things being constructed entirely from old material would be confusing as hell to new players.

Yeah I hear you, but hell... I'd happily buy a canonical novel about it, even if they never carried it over to a set.

And I don't know... Wizards has made it very clear that the Phyrexians have made it their mission to take over as many worlds as possible. Nicol Bolas is also a recurring villain. I don't see them just putting all of that by the wayside, considering how much thought they put into their storylines.

Edit:

The thing is, they can leave creatures at their current crazy state, just up the spell power a bit to balance things out. If they're going to nuts, they might as go nuts both ways.

That's why cube drafting is so great. Nuts in both directions. Feels good man

 

[The Technomancer]

Yeah I hear you, but hell... I'd happily buy a canonical novel about it, even if they never carried it over to a set.

And I don't know... Wizards has made it very clear that the Phyrexians have made it their mission to take over as many worlds as possible. Nicol Bolas is also a recurring villain. I don't see them just putting all of that by the wayside, considering how much thought they put into their storylines.

I could see it being a really kickass supplementary product. And its not like the old days where that doesn't mean anything, the new Commander decks are as important to a lot of people as the new set.

 

[OnPoint]

The spoiled cycle of auras is whatever, but the story about Elspeth leaving New Phyrexia is cool: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/ur/263

God damn it bring back the novels.

 

[Maledict]

The thing is, they can leave creatures at their current crazy state, just up the spell power a bit to balance things out. If they're going to nuts, they might as go nuts both ways.

That's not a good solution unfortunately. Other games have tried that approach to balance and the games end up too swingy to be fun. It devolves into everyone playing bombs against bombs and matches being decided more by luck than skill. Creatures could easily be taken down a notch slightly without it harming the game, and I think they recognise that after mistakes like Thragtusk.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Anger of the Gods 1RR (rare)
Sorcery
Deals 3 damage to each creature. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.

 

[kirblar]

Anger of the Gods 1RR (rare)
Sorcery
Deals 3 damage to each creature. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.

HI POD. THIS IS FOR YOU.

 

[acheron_xl]

Anger of the Gods 1RR (rare)
Sorcery
Deals 3 damage to each creature. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.

Ooh! I enjoy Flamebreak, and this is almost better. Wish it hit players too, but oh well. Can't have everything.