Go for the Bob Benson and see how he reacts.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
- Start date
A CCP is all the rage these days.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Post your favorite deck! Mine's not perfect, but I'm excited because I finally got the rest of my cards in today ^_^
Note: The Holy Mantle is just kind of a placeholder until I get a second Eldrazi Conscription. Buying those Hierarchs was kinda... gross.
I feel like I should put a couple lightning greaves in there, too. To protect Sovereigns and Rafiq.
Note: The Holy Mantle is just kind of a placeholder until I get a second Eldrazi Conscription. Buying those Hierarchs was kinda... gross.
I feel like I should put a couple lightning greaves in there, too. To protect Sovereigns and Rafiq.
Shots fired!
Ugh. Horrible draft tonight. Drafted a solid Blue/Red deck, but first round opponent managed to get a monstrous Fleecmane bestowed with the vigilance Nayad. Round 2 I did fine; round 3 played a black white deck that seemed to always draw its 3 Grey Merchants, Whip of Erebos and Sentry of the Underworld together.Even so, I almost managed to win, but game 3 all the answers were on the bottom of the deck.
Short of Forcing it or hoping to draw into a Wear // Tear on game 2/3, nope. Half the deck is CMC = 1, so unless the chalice player has absolutely nothing else and UWR very quickly pumps out geists/Batterskull, things won't go well.
I'm currently thinking that I just need to play Shardless. I feel like a flailing idiot playing UWR.
Finished 2-3 at my first ever FNM with this list http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=86832748&postcount=10919
Got a question. If a Pithing Needle is casted and resolves, if it gets sent back to my hand it's effect wears off right?
Got a question. If a Pithing Needle is casted and resolves, if it gets sent back to my hand it's effect wears off right?
BlewHedgehog
Member
Yessir.
Also, just got a look over your deck. Did you feel at all like it was excessively heavy on removal? Not that they will be dead against too many decks, but it seems like your offense could use some of those spots. You're playing a set of Gray Merchant and a few of the other devotion guy without all that many permanents to benefit with. I also haven't played with it myself, but have heard that Read the Bones isn't all that fabulous in a deck with blue in it where you could just run similar draw spells like Divination that don't randomly kill you against an aggro deck.
Anyway, nice job. 2-3 is a pretty good showing for your first FNM. It took me like a month to beat somebody =/
I debated for awhile on whether or not to just remove blue altogether. After playing I realized I was a little heavy handed with the removal. But after boarding my removal was lined up pretty nicely. The problem is that there just aren't that many 2-3 cost effective black devotion creatures. I do the Returned Phalanx because it shuts down a ton of really good aggro deck drops early game. I mainly need desecration Demons and I'm gonna get some Underworld Connections.
This deck pretty much throttled a Electromancer/guttersnipe/young pyromancer deck and a white/black precinct captain/soldier of the pantheon deck.
I was honestly pleased with how my deck played, did way better than i thought.
blindrocket
Member
This Pyromancer-reanimator that Todd Anderson is playing is a weird mash-up. Curious to see how they came up with that one.
I know the feeling, same reason I just can't play RUG decently. Join us in the GBx dark side, it feels so good here.
Shenhar playing Blade Splicer in a UWR Twin shell now, I'm intrigued. Shame I just tuned in now, I want to see more of this. Plays really nice with Resto, sweet.
I know the feeling, same reason I just can't play RUG decently. Join us in the GBx dark side, it feels so good here.
Shenhar playing Blade Splicer in a UWR Twin shell now, I'm intrigued. Shame I just tuned in now, I want to see more of this. Plays really nice with Resto, sweet.
Went 3-1 with team America, losing to a black devotion deck in the finals. He was lucky enough to curve out great, but it was still a good deck admittingly. I think it loses to aggro but is well suited to beat control. Underworld Connection was giving him better card advantage than my own deck was. I had to deal with Thoughtseize and cheap creatures like Pack Rat and Night Specter that curves out to Desecration Demon and Grey Merchant. He answered my PW with Hero's Downfall every time. I guess I need to sb a lot of counters in that matchup.
That was my most played standard combo when they were legal. Man, I miss playing that lol
"God's Beard!"
Member
Whoo, trading a foil Vraska + random commons/uncommons for a DRS and Desecration Demon today.
Should round out my scrappy standard milling deck. I still need to find a couple traumatize, though...
Should round out my scrappy standard milling deck. I still need to find a couple traumatize, though...
I realized something last night right before I go to bed- I play infinitely better with perfect information. Many of my best finishes are decks with a black discard component. Probably should still be leaning on that.
The golem token can block Etched Champion.
With Resto Angel and Kiki Jiki, you can continue making more tokens to keep blocking until you can assemble the combo or beat down with Colonnade. I'm not sure if Shenhar is actually playing Twin or if he's just playing Kiki Jiki for added value.
There's a school of UWR decks that are essentially midrange decks that have the pieces in there for a combo kill.
So, still fairly new to Magic (just been playing a few months) any my wife is a sometimes player, but enjoys the game. Been going to the local FNM, but have to say that doing so makes it difficult to keep playing.
We've found a few people we enjoy playing with at FNM, but, for the most part, the approach to the game just seems to kill any pleasure there may be. There are people there who have to win, who don't seem to get any joy out of it, others who simply can't abide new players and are sticklers for the rules, and others who believe that their way is the only way. Granted, those personalities are expected in things like this, but they're just so prevalent.
The worst thing we encounter, however, seems to be the most common. Last night, I was sitting at a table that had four 'stations' lined up on it (eight people at the table, four games going). All four players on the opposite side of the table had pretty much identical decks (this is the boros reckoner deck). Part way through the first round, I saw this, and realized that it really didn't matter who I was sitting across from. I wasn't playing the person, I was playing the deck, and not even a deck they built, but something they saw online and put together.
I see this more and more, and you can hear it in the conversations "oh, you're playing grixis/redwin/etc" as if that's all that needs to be said to describe all 60 cards in the deck. The game is no longer about building decks, as the deck builds are more or less pre-determined. And the game is no longer about strategies in playing, as each of these decks has a specific order in which the cards should be played. So at FNM, it doesn't matter whether I'm sitting across from Bob or Steve, they're going to have the same deck and play it the same way. I might as well just be playing against a computer. And when some guy in Montana comes up with a better deck build, I wind up seeing that deck over and over again here in San Diego.
So, yeah, that's just a meandering rant on the game, which I am REALLY trying to enjoy. I don't know...maybe draft is the only way to go?
We've found a few people we enjoy playing with at FNM, but, for the most part, the approach to the game just seems to kill any pleasure there may be. There are people there who have to win, who don't seem to get any joy out of it, others who simply can't abide new players and are sticklers for the rules, and others who believe that their way is the only way. Granted, those personalities are expected in things like this, but they're just so prevalent.
The worst thing we encounter, however, seems to be the most common. Last night, I was sitting at a table that had four 'stations' lined up on it (eight people at the table, four games going). All four players on the opposite side of the table had pretty much identical decks (this is the boros reckoner deck). Part way through the first round, I saw this, and realized that it really didn't matter who I was sitting across from. I wasn't playing the person, I was playing the deck, and not even a deck they built, but something they saw online and put together.
I see this more and more, and you can hear it in the conversations "oh, you're playing grixis/redwin/etc" as if that's all that needs to be said to describe all 60 cards in the deck. The game is no longer about building decks, as the deck builds are more or less pre-determined. And the game is no longer about strategies in playing, as each of these decks has a specific order in which the cards should be played. So at FNM, it doesn't matter whether I'm sitting across from Bob or Steve, they're going to have the same deck and play it the same way. I might as well just be playing against a computer. And when some guy in Montana comes up with a better deck build, I wind up seeing that deck over and over again here in San Diego.
So, yeah, that's just a meandering rant on the game, which I am REALLY trying to enjoy. I don't know...maybe draft is the only way to go?
You're over-valuing innovation. Just because someone copies a decklist doesn't mean that they'll be able to play it well. Most decks anyone makes are terrible, and many people don't have time to devote to extensive playtesting.
To some people winning = fun, they'll gravitate towards whatever would give them a higher chance at winning. This is true for almost anything competitive.
Of course your deck doesn't determine technical playing skill.
Copying a decklist takes the game out of the game. All that's left are knowing a few simple rules (play card A before card B, use X as a counter to deck type Y, etc) and the randomness of the draw. When I'm sitting at a table, and four people have identical decks because some guy across the country won a tournament with it a few weeks ago, I feel like it's pointless. I'm not pitting my creation against theirs, I just wind up seeing the same decks over and over.
If the game isn't in the creation of the decks, then where is it? It's certainly not in the play, since that is determined by the deck creation (and tempered by the randomness of the draw...something the deck creation is designed to combat). The fact is, anyone who understands the game and the mechanics of the cards will play decks the same way. What happened last night just drove that point home. I watched four people play the same deck all with identical strategies. The same creatures came out at the same turns, the same buffs were used at the same times, and they all held back their mana in the same ways each turn.
blindrocket
Member
So next week you bring a deck built for your particular meta game. Go against their weakness.
You are hugely underestimating playskill. Also, if they're all playing the same deck? Blow em up for it by picking a deck that murders them.
You can't follow a flowchart with a deck. There are always many lines of plays that not everyone will think about while playing. Everyone doesn't play the same, everyone doesn't think the same.
"Hey what if we don't counter Fact or Fiction?" won a world championship for a player.
Zvi won a Pro Tour playing Pure Reflection and Lashknife Barrier in a format with FtK and FoF.
CriginsMcJuggs
Member
You need to lose this mindset if you want to get better. Orders of play are absolutely never predetermined, and are different for each matchup. I usually bring my own decks to FNM, although part of that is simply not having the right cards, but I go in knowing theres a really good chance I go 2-2 or worse. The best decks will be built so the deck gets better as the player gets better. The reason people copy those decks, maybe with slight modifications, is because the pros have extensively tested those against different match ups, something most everybody doesn't have the time or resources to pull off.
I already have a deck that beats theirs, it's just uninteresting to see the same deck and strategies over and over. There's no personalities in the deck, there's no individuality in the matches. Ideally, if you got a dozen different people together to play Magic, you should see a dozen different decks, each fitting the owner's playstyle. Each deck would be strong against some and weak against others, because that's how the game is balanced.
Instead, you get five people holding one deck they downloaded on the internet, four holding another, and three people who are interesting to play against.
Competitive play may not be for you.
CriginsMcJuggs
Member
So our shop has been doing this Theros league since it came out. This may be my new favorite "Format" It's a 6 week thing, starting with a Theros sealed kid. Play 3 rounds each week, and at the end of each week you can buy another booster to add to your pool. For Theros they changed it so you can buy a booster of ANY tournament legal english booster(not unhinged etc..) they have on the shelves. For my second pack I chose judgement, and pulled 3 of the most broken cards for a Theros sealed environment:
Phantom Tiger(never dies when bestowed)
Ray of Revelation(lol)
Sylvan Safekeeper
So ya, life is good
Phantom Tiger(never dies when bestowed)
Ray of Revelation(lol)
Sylvan Safekeeper
So ya, life is good
I enjoy competitive play a lot, but really don't see the difference between playing against these types vs playing against a computer. The video game equivalent would be the flow-chart Ken players in SF4. Online play sucked because so many people were playing the same character the same way because it delivered a high win ratio. Yes, they were beatable, but they were boring to play. The interesting matches were when other characters would show up.
The people who download a decklist, build it, apply the rules of the deck, and play are doing the same thing as the flowchart Ken players. Someone else creates an effective deck and an effective strategy, they just follow the guidelines. And when that deck starts to lose too much (through people knowing what to expect) they all shift to someone else's creation.
But, yes, I will concede that, for some people, the fun is in winning, regardless of how much they have to do with that. I'm not knocking anyone for finding their own fun (except in the cases where someone's fun is at the direct expense of other's enjoyment...eg. griefing) I'm just saying that these types of players hurt the community as a whole, especially with how prevalent the practice is.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I am with you on competitive play, Amusix. My buddies and I actually just create special deckbuiliding rules to increase enjoyment of Magic. Our current matchup, which will take us a year to get through (while we also play other games, of course) has us building a deck using only single versions of cards, outside of lands. I am playing a red/blue burn/counter/izzet deck and am having FUN, something that cannot be said a lot of times at FNM, block draft release parties, and so on, where the spite and drama can be found in plentiful amounts, unlike what can be said about the deodorant and face wash.
That analogy is awful, flowchart shoto players in SF4 do not do well online.
And SF4 matches are the most interesting at high level, regardless of the character. Ryu mirrors between Daigo and Alex Valle, high level international play, etc. The same goes for Magic, it's the most enjoyable to watch when you see two highly skilled players duke it out even if they're both using Jund or Cawblade.
Just because there are a lot of similar decks doesn't necessarily mean all of those players are netdecking. I typically only bother with standard for Game Day. For Theros, I did 2 Game Day events, so I built two separate decks, one for each event. A green-white aggro deck and a red black green more slanted toward control and midrange. I ran up against at least 3 players that had similar decks, even though both my decks were purely home-spun.
The fact of the matter is, certain cards are pushed to be better than most and stand out. Cards like Abrupt Decay and Boros Reckoner, for example, are clearly great, even to a novice player. It's only natural that you're going to see lots of decks running them. If a deck is running 4 copies of every card (which isn't always a good idea), that leaves only room for 9 unique cards if you go for the normal 40% land ratio. If I want to play a Black/Red and black has 3 pushed cards and red has 4, even if I build something in isolation, it'll likely end up looking and playing like a lot of other decks in those colors. It's just the nature of constructed Magic.
What I would suggest is trying to get into limited more and see if you like it better. Draft and league are easily my two favorite formats and generally a lot more varied than constructed.
"God's Beard!"
Member
Been a while since I posted about this, so here's my revised milling deck for standard:
4 Thoughtseize
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tome Scour
2 Duskmantle Guildmage
4 Nightveil Specter
3 Far//Away
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Desecration Demon
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Whispering Madness
3 Consuming Aberration
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Traumatize
2 Rogue's Passage
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
7 Swamps
7 Islands
my mana curve suuuuuucks
and I miss my Codex Shredders :-(
4 Thoughtseize
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tome Scour
2 Duskmantle Guildmage
4 Nightveil Specter
3 Far//Away
1 Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
3 Desecration Demon
2 Whip of Erebos
2 Whispering Madness
3 Consuming Aberration
2 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Traumatize
2 Rogue's Passage
4 Watery Grave
4 Temple of Deceit
7 Swamps
7 Islands
my mana curve suuuuuucks
and I miss my Codex Shredders :-(
ThLunarian
Member
Random thought: I feel like Singleton Legacy should be a thing. Like, a sanctioned thing. Seems like it'd be the perfect intersection of Cube Draft and competitive constructed Magic.
I might even try to design a deck with that constraint for shits and giggles.
I might even try to design a deck with that constraint for shits and giggles.
Might as well and go play EDH.
"God's Beard!"
Member
So I got to play my Bant Conscription deck today between draft games at the shop. First time in a long time playing against real modern decks. Found a lot of holes in my game. If I didn't open with Sovereigns in my hand, the game was almost lost right there. Black control was a major issue. Finally, a lot of my cards just aren't good enough to compete. Real eye opening experience. So with cards that I have on-hand, I made some adjustments until I can complete it:
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Slippery Bogle
1 Gladecover Scout
4 Explore
4 Mana Leak
2 Nature's Spiral
4 Supply//Demand
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Rafiq of the Many
4 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
1 Eldrazi Conscription
24 lands
Eventually I'd like to get 3 Geists of St. Traft to replace the scout and two nature's spirals, maybe two Knight-Errants to replace two Demands.
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Slippery Bogle
1 Gladecover Scout
4 Explore
4 Mana Leak
2 Nature's Spiral
4 Supply//Demand
2 Unflinching Courage
2 Rafiq of the Many
4 Sovereigns of Lost Alara
1 Eldrazi Conscription
24 lands
Eventually I'd like to get 3 Geists of St. Traft to replace the scout and two nature's spirals, maybe two Knight-Errants to replace two Demands.
blindrocket
Member
Watched a cool game from the Grand Prix Antwerp feed today...
Player that had 40 some life got his Jund playing opponent to 1 life point. It definitely seemed over at this point.
Jund player cast Olivia, took control of his opponents Wurmcoil Engine and after quite a long game, which ended up going into overtime, regained his life and ended up winning the game at the last possible turn. It was pretty nice.
I think that the player who lost was playing Tron, but I'm not too familiar with Modern deck names.
Player that had 40 some life got his Jund playing opponent to 1 life point. It definitely seemed over at this point.
Jund player cast Olivia, took control of his opponents Wurmcoil Engine and after quite a long game, which ended up going into overtime, regained his life and ended up winning the game at the last possible turn. It was pretty nice.
I think that the player who lost was playing Tron, but I'm not too familiar with Modern deck names.
It was Tron, and he punted numerous times and lost because of it.
blindrocket
Member
Yup. He misplayed quite a bit, it seemed. Too bad for him, but it was still a pretty amazing turnaround.
ThLunarian
Member
With some key differences: a lot fewer tutors, a competitive aspect (and a deemphasis of casual play), and of course no general or color requirements. You could also sanction it.
It wouldn't work for Standard because the card pool is too shallow; it wouldn't work for Vintage because that's already almost a singleton format. It might work pretty well for Legacy or Modern though.
blindrocket
Member
DRS haters may be happy. Not a lot of him in the top 8!
"God's Beard!"
Member
I like DRS in standard, but man outside of that he gets pretty dumb quick.
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