divisionbyzorro
Member
It's the best card in Burn, which is completely viable deck in Modern (it even top-8'd a GP in 2013). It just doesn't have that "wow" factor, so the best players tend not to play it.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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It's the best card in Burn, which is completely viable deck in Modern (it even top-8'd a GP in 2013). It just doesn't have that "wow" factor, so the best players tend not to play it.
BB don't be down, your average Magic player--from kitchen (table) finks to perpetual PTQ/GPT scrubs--can't handle red being actually good and R&D mysteriously moves the goal posts whenever abilities get moved to the color since mysteriously they can't develop cool and interesting mechanics for red that weren't inherited from Alpha or another color.
Goblin Recruiter by a mile.
Combo kills can go under it.
Yeah I meant roll who gets the prize pack and thus that person conceding. Ways around that rule.
divisionbyzorro
Member
They can, but often don't. Modern's best combo decks, for all the talk of it being a "turn 4" format, aren't hellbent on winning that turn. The Splinter Twin decks, for example, have found that they win the game more consistently by slowing the game down, not by speeding it up. What keeps Burn down is that it's quite soft to a lot of tier two strategies (which, to be fair, is where the fast fragile combo decks you referred to live), despite being quite good against tier one strategies. And the type of player who plays Burn is probably not going into a GP with 2-3 byes - let's be honest.
Still against the rules. The winner of a match cannot be determined randomly; no two ways about it.
Oh guess I was explained incorrectly at my lgs then. I guess I'll go with a draw next time then lol.
The problem was that a 2/1 flash with the ability was too good, no matter what color. The flash needed to be excised- the card would still be absurdly good. Just not obnoxiously so.
It did in Time Spiral block. They even print red enchantments with flash every now and then. (There's a shitty one in Mirage I have a ton of... Lightning Reflexes?)
It is very good but I think it had a lot to do with the mana cost. If Snapcaster Mage were UU it would be significantly weaker but still powerful.
That said, I still wouldn't mind a Snapcaster Mage variant for 1R with Haste instead of Flash.
Yeah Time Spiral block messed around with the color pie a lot though. And I think every color in Mirage block got Auras that you could at instant speed as long as they were sacrificed at end of turn.
Naw. It's only dead in the sense that the pros would rather play something with a higher win rate which hurts the tournament results. Burn and efficiently costed creatures isn't a bad strategy at all.
Not sure if trolling.
divisionbyzorro
Member
If you want to play MTGO dailies or FNMs, you can play Gruul or Domain Zoo and not feel embarrassed about it at all. But you won't win a GP with it.
Oh, and don't get cute with your 'Goyfs. Tarfire and/or Seal of Fire are not good cards.
Oh, and don't get cute with your 'Goyfs. Tarfire and/or Seal of Fire are not good cards.
Why would you think I was trolling? The best players will put up results with a variety of decks but usually end up gravitating to the ones that give them the best chance of winning.
By hurts the tournament results I meant for the decks they don't choose to play.
That's how competitive play works. Decks that can't compete don't exist in the metagame. Getting annoyed at people maximizing their chances of winning is silly.
It's not that they can't compete. They just aren't the optimal deck.
Who's getting annoyed at players going with their best chance of winning? I'm certainly not. Just saying that makes some decks look better than they might actually be.
divisionbyzorro
Member
So if I understand what you're saying, it's that if a deck is 1-2% better than another, it'll be over-represented by far more than that, thus making it look worse than it is.
Which I would actually agree with. The pro mentality of taking every little edge will cause certain decks to be under-represented - but honestly, it's for a good reason. Tiny edges add up a lot in a 16-round tournament.
I'd insert "better" here but ya that's pretty much what I'm saying. The best players choose the deck they think will give them the slight edge and since they're so good, they'll likely end up taking some of the top spots.
No arguments here about how every little thing influences GP top 8s. That's why I wish they'd introduce an honorable mention type page with the decklists for the top 64 or so for these monster 1200+ player GPs.
Zoo is pretty much the strategy that gets verbally shit on the most by players but if you look at a decent shell it doesn't seem all that bad.
blindrocket
Member
I've watched streams of Zoo played on MTGO and it looks really fun and seems to do well.
I would really love if they would make Zoo competitive again. It's boring now that there aren't any real aggro decks out there, with Zoo being dead in Modern and Goblins/any other aggro being mostly dead in Legacy. I miss watching the rush. The thrill of battle. The feeling of overwhelming waves. Boo.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Second try drafting ZZW. No guarantees this goes any better than yesterday (this format is way crazier than I thought it would be). But I did open a foil Verdant Catacombs. So there's that.
EDIT: Well, my deck is going to make it to the finals. Holy crap; Searing Blaze was a common? A common? As in, my deck is allowed to have multiples of them? So unfair.
EDIT2: See below
EDIT: Well, my deck is going to make it to the finals. Holy crap; Searing Blaze was a common? A common? As in, my deck is allowed to have multiples of them? So unfair.
EDIT2: See below
D(jk2m2389/awDDPTqBGK_EN.jpg)
D(jk2m2389/sBxqAwMupo_EN.jpg)
D(jk2m2389/8vTAGZkqQ9_EN.jpg)
This infuriates me on so many levels. Since when does red get trample? Why isn't this green? Why the FUCK is green HEXPROOF instead of this?!?D(jk2m2389/GWiXO19GED_EN.jpg)
LOL
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Red gets trample sometimes. They've put it secondary in red IIRC. And honestly, its more relevant then anything else I can think of off the top of my head. Make your opponents stuff lose Haste? Double Strike?
Both of which would have been way more Red than Trample.
Intimidate! Cost it at 5RR and everyone is happy
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
And way less interesting IMO. I mean, I guess Double Strike could work if it was costed at like 7CMC, but again, just how often is the second ability going to be relevant? Even less then First Strike, which doesn't show up that much. And Haste is so purely red that it would only be relevant in basically red vs red matchups, and if they did that I guarantee some people would be groaning about how "Red only ever gets stuff with Haste"
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divisionbyzorro
Member
The problem with the Archetypes is that there aren't actually five good keywords to use. None of the other prototypical red keywords would have been good. Preventing your opponents from getting haste is, well, almost like doing nothing. And even then, it would be way too similar to the red Praetor (they obviously wanted these to feel as different from the Praetors as possible).
On the subject of my second ever ZZW draft, I managed to 3-0 the draft, and go undefeated in games. My deck felt insane, although I don't know the format well enough to know if it was actually insane, or just good enough. I'm curious to hear from someone who knows the format a little bit better...
I played 18 lands in an aggro deck because I felt that Plated Geopede and Searing Blaze were my best cards, and I really did want to hit five lands consistently to power out the top end. After being raised on recent limited formats, playing in a format where really good removal is at common felt really strange. Searing Blaze felt completely unfair every time I cast it.
On the subject of my second ever ZZW draft, I managed to 3-0 the draft, and go undefeated in games. My deck felt insane, although I don't know the format well enough to know if it was actually insane, or just good enough. I'm curious to hear from someone who knows the format a little bit better...
I played 18 lands in an aggro deck because I felt that Plated Geopede and Searing Blaze were my best cards, and I really did want to hit five lands consistently to power out the top end. After being raised on recent limited formats, playing in a format where really good removal is at common felt really strange. Searing Blaze felt completely unfair every time I cast it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Some thoughts on limited:
White
Blue
White
- Akroan Skyguard looks really scary. 1W for a 1/1 flier with Heroic for +1/+1.
- Ghostblade Eidolon is kind of a worse version of Cerberus, but yet still very, very good. 2W 1/1 Double Strike, Bestow 5W.
- Glimpse the Sun God will win a lot of games, and be dead in a lot of games.
- Mortal's Ardor will function very similarly to a God's Willing in a lot of scenarios.
- Ornitharch - now this is a Tribute card!
Blue
- Deepwater Hypnotist is actually really good if you cast it on curve. Really good.
- Eternity Snare is really expensive, but will still cause a lot of groans when it gets cast.
- Flitterstep Eidolon is an uncommon bomb! 1U 1/1 Unblockable Bestow 5U
- Oracle's Insight looks really strong in certain decks.
- Sphinx's Disciple is really expensive. My gut reaction is that he's a trap. 3UU Flying 2/2 Inspired - Draw a card.
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1. A 3 CMC 3/2 creature that universally grants your guys haste would be killer
2. Trample is by far one of the least interesting mechanics in all of Magic to me
3. Double strike would have been way OP at any reasonable cost
divisionbyzorro
Member
D(jk2m2389/K7PIyOoxyO_EN.jpg)
Oh man. Some games this will be the best thing ever. Some games this will do literal nothing. But this existing will change the way games are played. EDIT - I'm talking about Limited obviously.
EDIT: Guys, now that I'm seeing the set in its entirety, I'm actually coming around on it. I think the spoiler season was just really poorly handled. The mythics aren't really all that exciting, of course, and a lot of the rares are pretty boring. But as I'm looking at the set, and thinking about drafting it alongside Theros, I'm starting to feel like it might actually be pretty cool. It definitely feels like it's fallen short of what it could have been, but some of the stuff at common and uncommon looks to be really interesting in a limited environment.
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divisionbyzorro
Member
No kidding. The uncommons are where all of the interesting cards are. And a lot of them actually are pretty sweet (from the perspective of someone who doesn't play tournament Standard constructed).
It misses Trusty Machete and Vampire Nighthawk to be truly insane.
But yeah, B/R gets there quite often by virtue of having sweet commons.
Eighteen lands is correct. Zendikar is one of the few limited formats where you want to run 18 lands at all times.
As a type2 white weenies/ UW control player, these are the cards I'm looking forward to adding:
Cards just missing out:
My RDW deck is just looking forward to adding Searing Blood.
I can see G wanting Mortal's Resolve, Courser of Kruphix, and Unravel the Aether.
Black gets Pain Seer along with their cherry pickings of removal spells. I wouldn't be surprise if Torment's Herald saw some play.
Most of the gods are a given.
There really isn't much to add and look forward to. Of course, limited is a different story and I always look forward to it.
- Revoke Existence
- Spirit of the Labyrinth - may be good enough to mb but definitely sb in vs mono blue, mono black, and control
- Brimaz - I already said from the get-go this is the card I'm looking most forward to as I think it can fit into both decks
- UW Scryland
Cards just missing out:
- Exoriate - missed out not being an instant
- Eidolon of Countless Battles - should've had lifelink or doublestrike
- Please of Guidance - they wanted to make an enchantment heavy deck but made this card too high costed.
- Fated Retribution - maybe 1 in the sb but it's most likely vs other controls and for 7 mana, I won't be happy when this gets countered by a 1cmc Dispel lol
- Nullify - the UU cost and the fact that there's not much aura spells to hit stops this from going into my deck
My RDW deck is just looking forward to adding Searing Blood.
I can see G wanting Mortal's Resolve, Courser of Kruphix, and Unravel the Aether.
Black gets Pain Seer along with their cherry pickings of removal spells. I wouldn't be surprise if Torment's Herald saw some play.
Most of the gods are a given.
There really isn't much to add and look forward to. Of course, limited is a different story and I always look forward to it.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Hah. I shouldn't laugh too hard at other people's expense, but the ending to this match is hilarious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lajKPy_X8ek&list=PL5d1KNNFArSMhIHnnuu3NsurRFIUHBCJY#t=28m20s
Just watch. The game is only two minutes long. If the link doesn't work right, the game starts at 28m 20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lajKPy_X8ek&list=PL5d1KNNFArSMhIHnnuu3NsurRFIUHBCJY#t=28m20s
Just watch. The game is only two minutes long. If the link doesn't work right, the game starts at 28m 20s
Wait, did he have another land in hand plus Liliana? If so, he dun goofed.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Hehe yep. So far the Jund Depths players in feature matches (I've watched up through that round) have gotten extremely lucky to win. The other one had his opponent accidentally attempt to Brainstorm when activating Top in turn three of extra turns.
Well, Haas lost last weekend when his opponent made a top activation in response to his EoT Abrupt Decay and then illegally cast a miracled Entreat to put up blockers. No one noticed and consequently he couldn't get two seperate Marit Lage tokens through the angels before running out of gas.
The SCG Circuit everyone!
Also, video features Todd "The SCG Invitational is harder to win than a Pro Tour" Anderson, which just makes it even funnier
Is there any reason to get that Marit Lage token out at sorcery speed like he did? That seems like a horrible idea against a deck you're aware is running Liliana.... I don't see anything preventing him from waiting until the end of his opponent's turn.
Even if I'm missing something here, sacrificing Swamp to Crop Rotation instead of Urborg -- against a Jund deck with two mana out, none of it black -- is a pretty huge play error.
I think they both forgot what Urborg did.
Jund Depths player's hand had no additional green mana sources in it when he played the Urborg on turn 1. I think the Urborg was an attempt to bait Wasteland, as there was also a basic swamp in his hand. I'd still have gone with the swamp, as I don't want to make Liliana easier to cast + nobody in their right mind would wasteland the urborg over the taiga.
Even if I'm missing something here, sacrificing Swamp to Crop Rotation instead of Urborg -- against a Jund deck with two mana out, none of it black -- is a pretty huge play error.
I think they both forgot what Urborg did.
Jund Depths player's hand had no additional green mana sources in it when he played the Urborg on turn 1. I think the Urborg was an attempt to bait Wasteland, as there was also a basic swamp in his hand. I'd still have gone with the swamp, as I don't want to make Liliana easier to cast + nobody in their right mind would wasteland the urborg over the taiga.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Yeah, the end seemed really sloppy on Todd's part. I can't imagine a reason why you would want to even give your opponent the opportunity to Liliana. My only thought is that, like you said, he also forgot Urborg was symmetrical and assumed his opponent simply couldn't cast her, and that's the only answer Jund has for it.
The entire game three was a huge mess.
The entire game three was a huge mess.
Ouch. That's kinda depressing.
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