Keru_Shiri
Member
You can Gaze for 0 and kill tokens.
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Magic: the GAFering |OT2|
- Thread starter The Technomancer
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WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I love drown in filth. Makes DRS better in standard
Could be, would like the format if it was. Although it doesn't have any real effect on the board besides being a big creature... but then again it's impossible to kill.
Hmmm yeah, B/G could be a good base for a control deck with that and Gaze. Better than Dimir at least.
Well, they tried the "affect the board" finishers, and we ended up with titans and Elesh. Then they went in the opposite direction with flashers and utility lands, and we ended up with a grindy meta. So I think Aetherling would be a comfortable midpoint between the two, like the blue finishers (Meloku, Keiga) of old.
What's the CMC? 5? 3BW?
Whoops. Its 4BB.
Dang. That's not what I wanted to read.
robotzombie
Member
3 packs of gatecrash, two signal the clans...
10-3 in shadowmoor drafts. Played 5.
11-4 if you count the one where I fell asleep.
Guys. Play this format. It's free money, and the rounds end super fast. Some of these drafts ended in two hours, I've been chaining through drafts and doing HW all day.
My take on the format:
STAY MONOCOLOR THROUGH YOUR FIRST TWO PACKS. Judging by the insane limited rating drops I get whenever I lose in draft, the average player you're up against is pretty much completely terrible. This means nobody knows what a signal is, and most people are in 2-3 colors by the end of their first pack -- this is exacerbated by the 'you don't need to know what you're drafting until pack 3!' advice Wizards gives in their terrible 'how to draft shadowmoor' article.
White, red, and green are incredibly deep. Black has some absurd picks you'll want to grab if you see them going late -- corrupt is one of these. Careful, though, as you want to decide your color before you're done with pack 1. It's difficult to not have enough playables in this format, but you are most certainly capable of fucking yourself over if you change colors too late. That's the beauty of a format where you can draft a single color every time -- forcing might not be good, but splashing a second color third pack when you get a bomb is extremely possible.
Most of the great early picks in blue happen to be azorius split mana cards, so I wouldn't consider mono blue to be ideal, but it is most certainly possible.
11-4 if you count the one where I fell asleep.
Guys. Play this format. It's free money, and the rounds end super fast. Some of these drafts ended in two hours, I've been chaining through drafts and doing HW all day.
My take on the format:
STAY MONOCOLOR THROUGH YOUR FIRST TWO PACKS. Judging by the insane limited rating drops I get whenever I lose in draft, the average player you're up against is pretty much completely terrible. This means nobody knows what a signal is, and most people are in 2-3 colors by the end of their first pack -- this is exacerbated by the 'you don't need to know what you're drafting until pack 3!' advice Wizards gives in their terrible 'how to draft shadowmoor' article.
White, red, and green are incredibly deep. Black has some absurd picks you'll want to grab if you see them going late -- corrupt is one of these. Careful, though, as you want to decide your color before you're done with pack 1. It's difficult to not have enough playables in this format, but you are most certainly capable of fucking yourself over if you change colors too late. That's the beauty of a format where you can draft a single color every time -- forcing might not be good, but splashing a second color third pack when you get a bomb is extremely possible.
Most of the great early picks in blue happen to be azorius split mana cards, so I wouldn't consider mono blue to be ideal, but it is most certainly possible.
I feel you man. My pile of Carnival Hellsteeds from RTR are going to waste on my shelf
Oh, also:
Good 2-drops are at a premium. Almost all of them are white, too!
Banishing knack is insane. Don't forget that untap creatures exist, and you likely will be using this as a double or triple unsummon.
Take archtype staples (like power of fire, pili-pala, and resplendent mentor) late if you see them going late. Building silly little combo decks rewards you in this format, and a lot of them don't require much commitment.
Good 2-drops are at a premium. Almost all of them are white, too!
Banishing knack is insane. Don't forget that untap creatures exist, and you likely will be using this as a double or triple unsummon.
Take archtype staples (like power of fire, pili-pala, and resplendent mentor) late if you see them going late. Building silly little combo decks rewards you in this format, and a lot of them don't require much commitment.
Aetherling is sold out @ starcity... at five dollars.
Do people not realize it's effectively a 7 drop...? Fifty cent rare.
EDIT: ahahahaha it jumped up to $7 on tcgplayer.
EDIT 2: I'm not saying he won't see standard play -- he's a 1-2 of in the control mirror and gives control a neat tool against midrange-y jund. But holy shit, the card is terrible in every other scenario. People are evaluating it as if they have infinite mana at all times.
Do people not realize it's effectively a 7 drop...? Fifty cent rare.
EDIT: ahahahaha it jumped up to $7 on tcgplayer.
EDIT 2: I'm not saying he won't see standard play -- he's a 1-2 of in the control mirror and gives control a neat tool against midrange-y jund. But holy shit, the card is terrible in every other scenario. People are evaluating it as if they have infinite mana at all times.
I like 26 land decks I do have infinite mana muahahahah
Yea the card is so awful you were trying to buy some off of star city...
It's a great finisher for control decks.
Looking at starcity preorder page means I'm looking to buy a specific card I guess.
It's a great finisher for control decks when they play against other control decks. It's very matchup specific, and it's laughable to consider it a $7 card.
Control wants exactly zero of these against every aggro deck in standard.
To be fair, all of starcity's preorder prices are hilarious right now. They want eight bucks for some of the future fifty cent mytics like Deadbridge Chant.
Are people actually paying rates like this for junk mythics and fringey rares? I need to start selling preorders....
EDIT: Shadowmoor queues are filled with much better players now. Just played against three 1750+ players in a row. Went 3-0, but still, it wasn't a sweep -- avoid.
Given the average price of non-mythic rares, I think it can't hold that price. I like the card, and how it basically becomes unkillable once you get to cast it (probably with some blue mana sources open just in case), untap, and can do several things quite well:
The problem is the card doesn't handle aggro rushes that well (but that's what wraths and Azorius Charms are for, I guess), and you might end up losing tempo to his blinking against removal (if its used as you're attacking). That and it's a regular rare in a small set, so it should be easier to find than any given RTR/GTC rare.
EDIT: I never buy or trade for rares I don't actively want to play (ie: I don't care about Boros cards at all) since I'm not into speculation, but I also tend to avoid cards I think are overpriced. Sometimes it pays off, but then again I'm still waiting for Master Biomancer to come down to a price I can manage.
Neo-Pernicious Deed is amazing. I don't care how viable it is in the current or future standard. I want 3-4 copies for a Golgari deck I'll eventually be playing.
- Block non-fliers of any size (either through pump or by blinking him, although that's a bad idea against tramplers)
- Dodge any and all kinds of removal (sacrifice, targeted, global, bounce)
- Dodge Tamiyo's +1 (don't know how much that matters, though)
- Have pseudo-vigilance
The problem is the card doesn't handle aggro rushes that well (but that's what wraths and Azorius Charms are for, I guess), and you might end up losing tempo to his blinking against removal (if its used as you're attacking). That and it's a regular rare in a small set, so it should be easier to find than any given RTR/GTC rare.
EDIT: I never buy or trade for rares I don't actively want to play (ie: I don't care about Boros cards at all) since I'm not into speculation, but I also tend to avoid cards I think are overpriced. Sometimes it pays off, but then again I'm still waiting for Master Biomancer to come down to a price I can manage.
Neo-Pernicious Deed is amazing. I don't care how viable it is in the current or future standard. I want 3-4 copies for a Golgari deck I'll eventually be playing.
Small set rares are actually worth more, meaning it could sustain a $5 pricetag if the format found a place for it -- if it's a 2-2 split MD/Sideboard in every blue control deck in standard, I could totally see that happening, considering how excited people are about it.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am currently sketching out the details of a project with the economics department at my school. The original goal is to somewhat accurately predict the prices of Magic cards based on competitive playability, using tournament results as a metric.
Unfortunately, this has almost nothing to do with the price of a card. It's all about how much people talk about it, with a wild factor of market manipulation which is completely unpredictable -- thanks starcity! Now I'm working off search result hits in the Magic the Gathering threads on reddit, mtgsalvation, etc. I'm still in-term, so there's no data I can post yet.
With dragon's maze preorders (and the influx of new players making it extremely easy to overcharge for jank,) I'm finding it impossible to predict what anything will preorder at. It isn't driving down the preorder costs of clearly good cards like Notion Theif and Restoration Angel, either -- they preorder at the usual rate, flying down upon release, fall a bit more after redemptions go up, then begin steadily climbing until a few months before rotation. At this point, they fall, but take a shallower dip if they see significant play in eternal formats.
tl;dr:
Prices are confusing and infuriating, and I'm taking it out on a random dragon's maze rare. Hilariously enough, saying a card is overhyped and will correct to a much lower price (as I just did above) is quickly becoming somewhat of an oxymoron. The more hype and discussion there is for a card, the better, as it's become more important for a card's short term value than tournament playability.
Cards a player can toss into an existing competitive deck and test post-release, such as Aetherling, have even more potential. Even if the card isn't likely to see much future tournament play, it could still hold a $3-5 pricetag from those post-release test results alone. Don't believe me? Look at what Vorapede is selling at, despite seeing no competitive play above FNM level.
divisionbyzorro
Member
So since none of the bots were interested in buying my Shadowmoor boosters, I figured - hell, let's just draft one more time - it's better than letting the packs just sit in my inventory. I ended up with a sweet-looking white deck; some removal, aggressive U/W creatures, multiple Steel of the Godhead, Swans of Bryn Argoll, some pretty powerful R/W and B/W 5/6 drops, etc. It looked great.
Game one I'm paired against mono-green. I get the Swans down on turn 4 and start beating in with a decent set of chump blockers for backup and a Recumbent Bliss for whatever his bomb is going to be. I'm feeling good. Then he assembles Aerie Ouphes and Heartmender - now he gets to draw three extra cards each turn off of my Swans! He eventually draws into Ember Gale and alpha strikes me the turn before I'm lethal.
Game two goes like this: I mull to five because I see 6 lands, then no lands. Then I play T2 Puresight Merrow, T3 Steel of the Godhead, smash for 4 unblockable lifelink. He untaps and slams Wickerbough Elder. Yeah, I don't win that game either. Pretty much the worst possible matchup I could have asked for - if I had seen the mono-red monstrosities that were rampant the last two drafts I played, I'm pretty sure it would have been a cakewalk.
It feels like a format for grinders - quick, linear matches where most of the fun and interesting decisions are made during the draft, not the games themselves. If you hit a bad matchup, just jump back in and try again. As someone who rarely (this weekend notwithstanding) does any more than one or two drafts a week, it doesn't appeal to me.
Game one I'm paired against mono-green. I get the Swans down on turn 4 and start beating in with a decent set of chump blockers for backup and a Recumbent Bliss for whatever his bomb is going to be. I'm feeling good. Then he assembles Aerie Ouphes and Heartmender - now he gets to draw three extra cards each turn off of my Swans! He eventually draws into Ember Gale and alpha strikes me the turn before I'm lethal.
Game two goes like this: I mull to five because I see 6 lands, then no lands. Then I play T2 Puresight Merrow, T3 Steel of the Godhead, smash for 4 unblockable lifelink. He untaps and slams Wickerbough Elder. Yeah, I don't win that game either. Pretty much the worst possible matchup I could have asked for - if I had seen the mono-red monstrosities that were rampant the last two drafts I played, I'm pretty sure it would have been a cakewalk.
It feels like a format for grinders - quick, linear matches where most of the fun and interesting decisions are made during the draft, not the games themselves. If you hit a bad matchup, just jump back in and try again. As someone who rarely (this weekend notwithstanding) does any more than one or two drafts a week, it doesn't appeal to me.
So what guild are you guys planning on going with for DGM prerelease? Right now I'm pretty set on rakdos since it doesn't seem to have any poor pairings through the secret allies. Boros and gruul could make for some pretty crazy aggressive decks while the removal from black in GTC would be good for keeping potential blockers off the board.
narcosis219
Member
Golgari so I can open an Abrupt Decay/Deathrite Shaman.
Yeah, I gotta look through and see which ones have the money cards- MythicSpoiler.com has the print runs.
divisionbyzorro
Member
So we get updates to the B&R lists tonight. Any predictions on changes?
I think we see Reshape get banned in Modern, and nothing get unbanned. Standard is obviously fine, and I don't know enough about any other format to make any real educated guesses.
I think we see Reshape get banned in Modern, and nothing get unbanned. Standard is obviously fine, and I don't know enough about any other format to make any real educated guesses.
Something from Eggs is getting hit, although I'm not sure what (Reshape and Bloom are the 2 biggest candidates). There is also a non-zero chance the Beck/Call gets preemptivly banned
I'm really thinking something gets unbanned. Nacatl, Misstep, Mox or Dread Return would all shake up Modern.
You think Misstep might? I'd love that, I'm sitting on a couple foils that I wouldn't mind turning into something I'd play
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
If Mental Misstep is unbanned I'll eat my foil that I cracked right before it was banned.
narcosis219
Member
I wanna see this shoenice style
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I could see Nacatl or Misstep (much as I hate the card), neither would be overpowering and seem fairly safe now.
Same, there is so much crazy good hate vs graveyard strategies these days that dredge stuff seems safe to remove. I don't see the deck being anything more than another reason option in the format right now.
If it does get unbanned tonight, record it and throw it up on youtube. So worth it.
Same, there is so much crazy good hate vs graveyard strategies these days that dredge stuff seems safe to remove. I don't see the deck being anything more than another reason option in the format right now.
If it does get unbanned tonight, record it and throw it up on youtube. So worth it.
Nacatl and Misstep at the same damn time.
(Seriously though, unban nacatl and aggro is fantastic again. Unban misstep and aggro is unplayable for a year. Do both and... aggro is unplayable for a year. Keep misstep banned.)
Unbanning dread return is a terrible idea. You'd have to ban Balstruade Spy and the other shitty creature from gatecrash, and even then we'd have crazy infinite combo decks consistent on turn 3.
(Seriously though, unban nacatl and aggro is fantastic again. Unban misstep and aggro is unplayable for a year. Do both and... aggro is unplayable for a year. Keep misstep banned.)
Unbanning dread return is a terrible idea. You'd have to ban Balstruade Spy and the other shitty creature from gatecrash, and even then we'd have crazy infinite combo decks consistent on turn 3.
Sideboard man, sideboard. Most (all?) of the cards that beat legacy dredge are modern legal.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Wizards hates Dredge as much as they hate Storm. Dread Return isn't coming off any time soon.
As far as Wild Nacatl, Zoo is doing just fine post-Gatecrash. I don't think it's necessary to unban it, so I don't see that coming off either.
Mental Misstep is a mistake that will never come off of the ban list. It restricts lines of deck building similarly (although perhaps to a lesser extent) to the way that Punishing Fire does.
As far as Wild Nacatl, Zoo is doing just fine post-Gatecrash. I don't think it's necessary to unban it, so I don't see that coming off either.
Mental Misstep is a mistake that will never come off of the ban list. It restricts lines of deck building similarly (although perhaps to a lesser extent) to the way that Punishing Fire does.
The format is already insanely diverse. Sideboards are packed. Introduce a turn 3 combo deck that requires 8 sideboard slots and the format is pretty much ruined.
MB has counters, DRS, etc. That spy/informer deck doesn't work with modern legal cards even if DR was unbanned. The sideboard slots wouldn't even be dredge/all spells specific either... cards like surgical extraction and relic hit a lot of decks.
It isn't. It essentially makes every non-gimmick aggro deck run it. Even Tempo decks were using it.
FieryBalrog
Member
There is no reason to unban dredge. It adds almost nothing to the format except Storm 2.0 that requires different hate and means fair decks have to constantly worry about multiple different non-interactive kills when making sideboards and pack them with otherwise irrelevant shit instead of using them for actually interesting things.
Dredge outside of vintage is just a dumb deck that beats people up for trying to play normal magic. Vintage is already not normal magic so it can chill there.
Dredge outside of vintage is just a dumb deck that beats people up for trying to play normal magic. Vintage is already not normal magic so it can chill there.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Dear Putrify, please hurry up and save me from Ultimate Price. Other than removal sucking ass right now, this deck has tested very well over the past week. W/B zombies is terrible without Obzedat and at that point, might as well go Aristocrats.
BUG Zombies said:[/IMG]
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Esper control and Naya Blitz, which seem to be what most people are playing in the tourney practice room. I'm oddly not running into Junk reanimator much online, only about 3 times in the past week. I won 2, lost 1. The one I lost was pretty bad, 2-0. I didn't pull DRS on either game there and did in one of the others. Obviously need to side in cage and 2 more DRS.
Removal is week, as well. But that's not for lack of trying to find a good fit.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
...ok. Thanks for your input.
divisionbyzorro
Member
My thoughts on Modern unbans:
These cards are never, ever coming off: The artifact lands, Blazing Shoal, Cloudpost, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, Green Sun's Zenith, Hypergenesis, Jace 2.0, Mental Misstep, Ponder, Punishing Fire, Sensei's Divining Top, Stoneforge Mystic, Skullclamp, Sword of the Meek, and Umezawa's Jitte.
Chrome Mox and Rite of Flame get a lot of discussion. I think these cards aren't guaranteed to break the format, but I think they're too dangerous to unban right now. They also simply can't be legal together.
I would have thought Wild Nacatl would get unbanned eventually, but Zoo seems healthy enough now to where I don't see it coming off any time soon.
Golgari Grave-Troll is mostly a do-nothing without Dread Return. You could probably safely unban it - but why bother? It'll either do literal nothing or somehow get broken. Not worth it.
Bitterblossom will be unbanned, probably by the end of the year. Faeries didn't have to deal with the types of cards that exist now; I think the deck could be competitive, but not overpowered.
I could see a Preordain unban at some point. It's marginally better than Sleight of Hand and/or Serum Visions, depending upon what you're trying to accomplish, but I don't think it would suddenly make blue decks too good.
It's also way too early to talk about Bloodbraid Elf or Seething Song, but those were metagame tweaks, not power level bans. If Modern survives for years, we could see these come off based on what the metagame looks like at that point.
Yeah, tournament practice is only good for seeing if your deck even functions, not for seeing if it's competitive. If there aren't tickets on the line, your opponents aren't going to be worth a damn on MTGO.
These cards are never, ever coming off: The artifact lands, Blazing Shoal, Cloudpost, Dark Depths, Dread Return, Glimpse of Nature, Green Sun's Zenith, Hypergenesis, Jace 2.0, Mental Misstep, Ponder, Punishing Fire, Sensei's Divining Top, Stoneforge Mystic, Skullclamp, Sword of the Meek, and Umezawa's Jitte.
Chrome Mox and Rite of Flame get a lot of discussion. I think these cards aren't guaranteed to break the format, but I think they're too dangerous to unban right now. They also simply can't be legal together.
I would have thought Wild Nacatl would get unbanned eventually, but Zoo seems healthy enough now to where I don't see it coming off any time soon.
Golgari Grave-Troll is mostly a do-nothing without Dread Return. You could probably safely unban it - but why bother? It'll either do literal nothing or somehow get broken. Not worth it.
Bitterblossom will be unbanned, probably by the end of the year. Faeries didn't have to deal with the types of cards that exist now; I think the deck could be competitive, but not overpowered.
I could see a Preordain unban at some point. It's marginally better than Sleight of Hand and/or Serum Visions, depending upon what you're trying to accomplish, but I don't think it would suddenly make blue decks too good.
It's also way too early to talk about Bloodbraid Elf or Seething Song, but those were metagame tweaks, not power level bans. If Modern survives for years, we could see these come off based on what the metagame looks like at that point.
f0rk said:
Yeah, tournament practice is only good for seeing if your deck even functions, not for seeing if it's competitive. If there aren't tickets on the line, your opponents aren't going to be worth a damn on MTGO.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I don't believe I've ever said it's a deck that was currently winning at a PTQ or Grand Prix. Pretty sure "testing" means "testing."
I'll be sure to only post Martell/Finkel level decks in the future.
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