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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Firemind said:
never had any issue with it. like if you're actually being locked out, it's basically your own fault.

craterhoof on the other hand...
Click to expand...
How do you figure its "basically your own fault" if your opponent has some single card (out of 700 in the Cube) that persistently locks you out of playing the game? That doesn't actually make any sense.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
HeebyGB's quick-start guide to deckbuilding in Khans-BFZ Standard:

1. Pick One:
  • Atarka's Command
  • Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

2. Pick One or More:
  • Abzan Charm
  • Crackling Doom
  • Wild Slash

3. Pick Three or More:
  • Bloodstained Mire
  • Flooded Strand
  • Polluted Delta
  • Wooded Foothills
  • Windswept Heath
4. If you picked Atarka's Command, add more red cards. If you picked Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, empty your binder into your deckbox.

5. Go play Magic!
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
But counterspells

I was told counterspells were gonna be good
 
F

Firemind

Member
Angry Grimace said:
How do you figure its "basically your own fault" if your opponent has some single card (out of 700 in the Cube) that persistently locks you out of playing the game? That doesn't actually make any sense.
Click to expand...
because it's not a one-card combo? your opponent needs creatures out for opposition to work which you can interact with. if you're not either playing removal, counterspells or ramp, then you're doing something wrong. and if you're losing in the late game to a topdecked opposition with your opponent having a shit ton of creatures to lock you out, then maybe you were already losing?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Firemind said:
because it's not a one-card combo? your opponent needs creatures out for opposition to work which you can interact with. if you're not either playing removal, counterspells or ramp, then you're doing something wrong. and if you're losing in the late game by a topdecked opposition with your opponent having a shit ton of creatures to lock you out, then maybe you were already losing?
Click to expand...

Oh okay, you heard it from Firemind guys, just kill your opponent's dudes
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
Wood. Land. Wanderer. Step 6.


I'm not finding brewing as fun in this standard so far. I think I'm getting overwhelmed with the mana and my own limitations. I have to build 2 decks per week, one for me and one for the girl. We have a playset of each Khans fetch, but that's presenting some real pressure on mana bases open to us. And it's kinda harshing my brew high. : /

Anyone figure anything out around Hardened Scale, Evolutionary Leap, or Monastery Mentor? I really want a viable deck featuring one of those insane cards. I've figured out one around Mastery of the Unseen, it's just ungodly slow.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Woodland Wanderer doesn't seem likely to see play so long as Siege Rhino is around because the price to get a good return on Woodland Wanderer is the same as the price to get Siege Rhino.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
kirblar said:
Can the man work for playing Bring to Light in what's essentially an Esper Dragons deck?
Click to expand...

The man works hard for the money

keeblerdrow said:
Agreed. He's shitty Rhinos 5-8, if he ever sees play at all. But man, it can do some work.
Click to expand...

You also can't BTL a Wanderer at all. Well, you can, its just a 2/2 though.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Oh okay, you heard it from Firemind guys, just kill your opponent's dudes
Click to expand...
i mean, opposition has double blue in its cost, in a colour which doesn't have token generators besides master of waves and myr battlesphere.

the best token generators, spectral procession and lingering souls, aren't really splashable. cloudgoat ranger is alright if a little unexciting.

so you can either go red which has awful cards, or green which is amazing if you can draft it. which isn't all that often since blue is overdrafted and green isn't always open.

any other configuration and your one-for-one permission/removal beats it.
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
Last Friday I played Bring to Light good stuff at FNM. I learned that the deck is a slow closer and in a place that have 40 minute rounds, I rarely got to finish my games. If you're playing a deck with BtL and Rhino, Wanderer is something you want to seriously look at. He eats a removal spell fairly consistently, because as soon as the opponent reads it, it becomes a top priority for them. I was getting board states with 1 Wanderer and a Mantis Rider or 2 that the opponent just couldn't attack into, but I was constantly winnowing down their on board resources with vigi attacks. I think the card will see more play this spring once we don't have Rhino to fall back on, unless we get some other new 4-cmc ubermensch.

Realistic cards from the new set I'm trying to figure out places for right now include Forerunner of Slaughter, From Beyond, and Vampiric Rites. Not necessarily in the same deck. I feel like they each have a home as support in some midrange strategies.

What are some ramp strategies that people are testing right now? I saw a couple of the eldrazi ramp decks at the open, but they all looked like they depended on their opponent not doing anything for a while. Is there a home for maybe a copy or 2 of Conduit of Ruin in a ramp deck? The creature discount on the card seems like it makes your next turn better any time it survives. I just don't see how any deck can have a substantial amount of payoff in eldrazi sizes in this new standard. In the last one, even the devotion ramp decks had maybe 4 or 5 pay off cards. Are people being too greedy, from what I'm seeing? 4 Ulamogs, 4 Atarkas, 2 Dromokas? Just seems like you'll see too much of your top end.

/rambling

This is what my mind gets like when I start going over the logistics of what I want to brew. I need to get back to tinkering existing lists. I think I'm better off
and sound more sane
when I do that.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If you're curving Mantis Rider into Siege Rhino you're already busting Standard
 
K

keeblerdrow

Member
Angry Grimace said:
If you're curving Mantis Rider into Siege Rhino you're already busting Standard
Click to expand...

One Rattleclaw Mystic on turn 2 makes that easy. It just requires more land-christmas if you don't get the mystic. Honestly, playing mana correctly is really hard right now. I lost a game to fetching for the wrong land and spent 6 turns kicking myself about it.
 
H

Hero

Member
Agree with Grimace here, Opposition is just shitty and non-fun. Even when it works it just makes the game completely one sided until the player that has it has a win condition, which sometimes can take a while.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
There's nothing funnier than people who bought out Field of Dreams on the theory that you could play Lantern Control in Legacy.

Good luck with that.
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
Random ideas for nonbasic land hate that are maybe fairer than Blood Moon.

Lunar Flare - R
Enchantment
Flash
When Lunar Flare enters the battlefield, draw a card.
Nonbasic lands are Mountains.
At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice Lunar Flare.

Goblin Home Seller - 1R
Creature - Goblin Advisor
Nonbasic lands enter the battlefield under your control.
At the beginning of each end step, the owner of each nonbasic land you control gains control of it.
2/1

Thought-Counter Warrior - 1R
Creature - Human Warrior
Prowess
Whenever an opponent searches his or her library, put a +1/+1 counter on Thought-Counter Warrior. It deals 3 damage to that player.
2/1

EDIT: And unrelated ideas.

Crazed Consumption - 5R
Sorcery
Devoid
Exile any number of target creatures. For each creature exiled this way, its controller puts two 1/1 colorless Eldrazi Scion creature tokens onto the battlefield. They have "Sacrifice this creature: Add (1) to your mana pool."

Chandra's Arrival - 3R
Instant
Chandra's Arrival deals 3 damage to each creature. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, add R to your mana pool and exile the top card of your library. Until end of turn, you may play cards exiled this way.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Hero said:
Agree with Grimace here, Opposition is just shitty and non-fun. Even when it works it just makes the game completely one sided until the player that has it has a win condition, which sometimes can take a while.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but how often does that happen? Tangle Wire also makes games one-sided if you draw it early and that costs three colourless mana.

SigmasonicX said:
Random ideas for nonbasic land hate that are maybe fairer than Blood Moon.
Click to expand...
Image.ashx
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think you are underestimating how many creatures you need to get out to play Opposition well. You don't need to have that many creatures because the longer the game goes the more you can lock them out with additional dudes you're drawing and casting since Opposition doesn't require any mana to actually activate. The fact that its almost impossible to directly respond to Opposition itself doesn't help.

Tangle Wire is less frustrating because at least it gives you an option as to what you're tapping so you can sort of race the artifact. Opposition is just multiple Rishadan Ports that don't really restrict your opponents ability to continue doing whatever it wants.
 
H

Hero

Member
Firemind said:
Yeah, but how often does that happen? Tangle Wire also makes games one-sided if you draw it early and that costs three colourless mana.


Image.ashx
Click to expand...

So it's not so much that it's one-sided but you a lot of times Opposition buys someone way more time than they should've had to recover. Tap your dudes if you have them, tap your mana if you don't. It's a slow agonizing death.

Tangle Wire is similar as a prison card but it's moreso for aggro decks.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Firemind your avatar enrages me.

Have a fixed one

1Xou8h1.png


The white pixels are driving me insane

Tangle Wire also enrages me, a guy at my LGS plays it in this deck that just never gets rid of it. I'm thinking of playing Balancing Act on his ass.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Tangle Wire is less frustrating because at least it gives you an option as to what you're tapping so you can sort of race the artifact. Opposition is just multiple Rishadan Ports that don't really restrict your opponents ability to continue doing whatever it wants.
Click to expand...
Have you ever played Tangle Wire? The disadvantage of not being able to tap which permanents is only minimal, because it doesn't require creatures to tap anything down. You tap them to clobber your opponent and just win. There is almost no way to race a well curved Tangle Wire.

Hero said:
So it's not so much that it's one-sided but you a lot of times Opposition buys someone way more time than they should've had to recover. Tap your dudes if you have them, tap your mana if you don't. It's a slow agonizing death.
Click to expand...
So either they tap your lands, which gives your creatures free reign to attack. Or they tap down your creatures, in which case you can play more threats or kill their creatures. Seems like you aren't drafting aggro enough. Opposition is soft to aggro because it's a bit of a double-edged sword. It can buy you time, but it's also more unreliable than a straight up Wrath.
 
E

Etrian Oddity

Member
As soon as BfZ releases on MtGO next year, I'm going to toy around with some Sultai Eldrazi builds. The Scion of Sultai archetype looks pretty interesting.
 
H

Hero

Member
Firemind said:
Have you ever played Tangle Wire? The disadvantage of not being able to tap which permanents is only minimal, because it doesn't require creatures to tap anything down. You tap them to clobber your opponent and just win. There is almost no way to race a well curved Tangle Wire.


So either they tap your lands, which gives your creatures free reign to attack. Or they tap down your creatures, in which case you can play more threats or kill their creatures. Seems like you aren't drafting aggro enough. Opposition is soft to aggro because it's a bit of a double-edged sword. It can buy you time, but it's also more unreliable than a straight up Wrath.
Click to expand...

I think you're misunderstanding.

Here is how it goes when someone has Opposition in play:

"Do they have creatures I don't want attacking me? Tap them before combat. Do they not have creatures? Tap their mana during their upkeep. "

It's almost completely binary in terms of decision making.

I'm not saying it's always a win card since there is variance but more often than not it's just not fun and doesn't make for good games, mileage may vary. At least if someone goes nuts with reanimation, SnT/Channel, etc it's a fast win. Opposition will usually slow games to a halt. I didn't cut it for power level, I cut it for fun and time factors.

I also have a lot of support for aggro and am usually the guy that drafts aggro to teach people that get greedy with their mana.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Yeah, I was more talking about power level. Opposition can definitely make games unfun and drawn out, but so can JTMS. My point is Opposition isn't as reliable as people may think. I think it's cool to have in the cube, personally.

Ashodin said:
Firemind your avatar enrages me.

Have a fixed one

1Xou8h1.png


The white pixels are driving me insane

Tangle Wire also enrages me, a guy at my LGS plays it in this deck that just never gets rid of it. I'm thinking of playing Balancing Act on his ass.
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks. I hadn't noticed that. (I'm using the white layout.)
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Sword of the Animist + Retreat to Kazandu + Serene Steward is getting nuts

With Hardened Scales + Gleam of Authority, shit can get out of hand. I need to get four stat.
 
H

Haines

Banned
Some linked me a site here and niw i lost it.

It was a magic draft simulator that i could practice with before my first draft on friday.

Anybody know what it was? Im off to try google but thought you guys might know.
 
H

Haines

Banned
I think i found the right site. Mtgmirror.

Theres a podcast my buddy listens to prerelease. Its like 6 hours long and covers the commons. Grades them. What the heck is that called. I want to listen to it.
 
I

IrrelevantAlex

Member
I'd like to make some full art proxies but magiccard.info still hasn't updated to BFZ and I usually use andyrut and magicbluebones both of which pull images from magiccards.info.

Anyone use/has a link to another site for full art proxies?
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
The moment he impales Laquatus with the Mirari loved it, last good MTG books imo.

Also loved the Leshrac Bolas fight though. That's a black oldwalker they could bring back imo.
Click to expand...
It's a great scene, turning death into life.

With that, Kamahl flipped his sword over, grabbed the pommel in both hands just below the Mirari, and slammed the blade down through Laquatus's chest, shattering the mer's ribs, shredding his heart, and driving the silvery-blue wizard's spine down into the dirt, embedding the blade and his body in the ground. As Kamahl released the sword, the Mirari flashed, turning the forest around the barbarian bright white and tossing him into the trees across the path.

When Kamahl opened his eyes a few moments later, he was amazed to see he was now surrounded by new bushes and flowers. Sitting up, the barbarian watched as a wave of growth expanded out from the Mirari. Existing trees sprouted new limbs and grew higher into the sky. Flowers sprang up all around and bloomed in seconds. The path around him became overgrown as bushes and trees erupted from the earth. Looking around, Kamahl watched as the wave expanded out as far as he could see.
Click to expand...
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Talking about the books, I'm still annoyed there isn't a Bruena card. She isn't even depicted anywhere, there's literally 3 google search results of her.

Slobad, Bosh, Glissa, Geth, Raksha all got legendaries in the two blocks and it's not even like blue had any notable blue legendary instead of her.
 
H

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
It occurs to me that if the Onslaught storyline took place now, that would've been Kamahl's "I'm a planeswalker now, preorder me on SCG for $20" moment.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Haly said:
It occurs to me that if the Onslaught storyline took place now, that would've been Kamahl's "I'm a planeswalker now, preorder me on SCG for $20" moment.
Click to expand...

but that happened in Onslaught instead with Jeska, which was just lame.

The shadows were slapstick comedy, Jeska was always an annoying character, Akroma was just mental, Phage was kinda gross, Karona boring, only Kamahl was the OG. Ixidos was kinda great though

I'd have much preferred Kamahl becoming the Walker. Would have made the Timespiral story 10 times better as well, which isn't much.
 
P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181010022]HeebyGB's quick-start guide to deckbuilding in Khans-BFZ Standard:

1. Pick One:
  • Atarka's Command
  • Jace, Vryn's Prodigy

2. Pick One or More:
  • Abzan Charm
  • Crackling Doom
  • Wild Slash

3. Pick Three or More:
  • Bloodstained Mire
  • Flooded Strand
  • Polluted Delta
  • Wooded Foothills
  • Windswept Heath
4. If you picked Atarka's Command, add more red cards. If you picked Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, empty your binder into your deckbox.

5. Go play Magic![/QUOTE]
I'm pretty scared of FNM right now. It's going to be the same deck everywhere, except you're either splashing for mantis rider or siege rhino. Everything else remains the same.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Ashodin said:
hmm? His ability can turn ANYTHING manifested from your library face up. It's "target face down creature."

Unless they errata'd
Click to expand...

A non-permanent cannot be turned face-up ever no matter what. It simply "fails to flip."
 
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