keeblerdrow
Member
Not that I'm agreeing with him on the Hero's Downfall thing, but they DID reprint Satyr Wayfinder into a core set that rotated out with the original printing. Still sore it wasn't in Origins instead.
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Not that I'm agreeing with him on the Hero's Downfall thing, but they DID reprint Satyr Wayfinder into a core set that rotated out with the original printing. Still sore it wasn't in Origins instead.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
>_> <_< Hero's Downfall was first printed in Theros?
Theros Block Constructed was a thing.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It's because Satyr Wayfinder is OP
A Serious Man
Member
Way to phone it in Burburan.
Alcibiades
Member
Wasn't around during Theros block so I decided to do a draft online. Opened a Keranos, stuck to my colors and went 1-2. I really wish I had gotten to play the format sounds like fun from what I've read of it.
So I checked the price on goldfish and the online one is going for $20 while cardboard is going for $10. Anybody got an explanation for that?
Glad I actually took it since I was gonna pass it up for single-color card to not commit early. Only reason I took it was I was doing the draft for fun and figured what the heck I'll force Blue-Red.
So I checked the price on goldfish and the online one is going for $20 while cardboard is going for $10. Anybody got an explanation for that?
Glad I actually took it since I was gonna pass it up for single-color card to not commit early. Only reason I took it was I was doing the draft for fun and figured what the heck I'll force Blue-Red.
Infinite Stars
Member
They've done it in Khans block, so I'm not exactly sure why it's this big non bo to have a reprint of it in the same block. Maybe make it a Pre-release reward/thing Ala Ugin's fate/Dragon Fodder KTK?
And yes, I know Khan's block came after, but it's totally flavourful for Downfall to have an Elspeth Art/Flavortext. It doesn't allow for it to be run as an 8-of, so...
Because it's a rare, and it would be really shitty for people who got a playset of Theros downfalls to open more in JiN and have their existing ones devalued and crash in price. This is kinda obvious.
Reprinting C/U cards is no big deal.
charlequin
Banned
blogatog said:
Our official confirmation that development killed infect in the soon-upcoming New New Phyrexia block! Now we can all be excited about <positive reaction> how we won't have to deal with the misery of this mechanic in another format / <negative reaction> how we'll get another BFZ-esque tire fire where they take away a Magic villain's scary signature mechanic and replace it with jack shit!
I submit Bruenna every single time Rosewater has a little "what characters should we go back and do" thing (which at this point I think has been like five or six times.)
I actually have a big list of these, and irritatingly a ton of them are black and blue: Bruenna, Gix, Xantcha, Belbe, Davvol, Ashnod, Tocasia, Agnate, Tawnos. Gisa/Geralf and Kothophed were on that list too until last year.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Just give then renamed Wither or something
SigmasonicX
Member
I wonder, could a working replacement for infect be something similar to Ichor Rat's ability? In addition to wither.
Virulent - When this creature enters the battlefield, each opponent gets a poison counter.
So for example:
Not-As-Bad Elf - G
Creature - Elf Horror
Virulent
Wither
1/1
Virulent - When this creature enters the battlefield, each opponent gets a poison counter.
So for example:
Not-As-Bad Elf - G
Creature - Elf Horror
Virulent
Wither
1/1
charlequin
Banned
The redeeming factor in BFZ is that this particular fuck-up of the Eldrazi isn't necessarily an issue long-term. They're obviously going to keep using them well after this block, and "cares about exiling opponents' stuff" is a perfectly good theme for them, so it's entirely conceivable they could just execute it correctly next time.
They could just have regular wither in that case, but I think that'd have the exact weird-defanged-quality problem that BFZ has. You want to give them some new mechanics that spread disease amongst creatures, or compleat things, or something.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I almost guarantee that Proliferate comes back and Proliferate + Wither sounds like it creates a lot of spreading sickness. But they wouldn't have no new mechanics so there would have to be some third thing. Maybe "whenever a creature with -1/-1 counters dies do an effect"? I unno
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It would be interesting instead of seeing phyrexia conquering a plane to see an Eldrazi and Phyrexia to fight over a plane.
No good guys, no world saving walkers. No epic story just a Godzilla vs King Kong kinda thing.
Don't know most of these but I basically only know some lore from invasion to Alara.
holy shit every one of those comes up on the MTG card chrome addon as Vanguard, ffs WotC
SigmasonicX
Member
Ah, idea. A reverse bolster.
Stricken X - Choose a creature with the greatest toughness among creatures you don't control and put X -1/-1 counters on it.
Phyrexian Land Destruction - 3R
Sorcery
Destroy target land. Stricken 1.
charlequin
Banned
No, that sickness specifically doesn't spread. You want something that puts counters on more different creatures without having to get into combat, like....
...that, exactly that. They would do that as always being exactly one counter though. EDIT: Also the problem I can see with this is that it plays really well with Proliferate but they kind of fill the same niche of "riders you tack on non-permanent spells." I guess you'd have to put proliferate mostly on ETB effects or sacrifices or something.
Mark Rosewater has a closet full of comic book shirts; there is zero chance that there won't eventually be an Eldrazi Vs Phyrexia block.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
So long as they don't spin a personal tale of one of the Origin 5 around the conflict I'd love that. I guess a turned artifact Eldrazi would be all sorts of wrong.
I think the "right" thing to do to communicate the alien nature of Phyrexia is actually just to completely fuck up the color pie for a block. That's probably the Jesse Mason in my design sensibilities, which is probably also a good sign that R&D won't actually dare to do that.
The mechanic you're looking for is blight from GDS2. Except something about, like, when a blighted creature dies move any blight counters on it to other creatures. And they're -1/-1s, so basically everything is a nega-Spike.
charlequin
Banned
No, I didn't design that one so I don't know if they're gonna want to use it.
A Serious Man
Member
One last Origins draft.
5 Separatist Voidmages.
#LetsDoThis
Match 1, turn 3.
1-0
$14 well spent.
5 Separatist Voidmages.
#LetsDoThis
Match 1, turn 3.
1-0
$14 well spent.
Yeah but 5 colors doe! Nah I didn't have enough fixing to spread across 5 colors on top of none of them really being splash colors. I doomed myself from the start. Almost worked tho haha.
As far as standard goes, Dispel is looking more and more mainboardable as a 1 of and some in sb. It hits all of Artaka's pumps, all the commands, Crackling Doom, Muderous Cut, etc. Sure, it misses some sorcery spells, but if you're Esper Dragons, I'm sure you're not worried about Ruinous Path.
As far as standard goes, Dispel is looking more and more mainboardable as a 1 of and some in sb. It hits all of Artaka's pumps, all the commands, Crackling Doom, Muderous Cut, etc. Sure, it misses some sorcery spells, but if you're Esper Dragons, I'm sure you're not worried about Ruinous Path.
SigmasonicX
Member
Another direction the Phyrexians could go is that they could only care about giving a player one poison counter, and then they have spells that care about players being poisoned, like New Phyrexia touched on a bit.
Poisonous Bolt - R
Instant
Poisonous Bolt deals 2 damage to target creature or player. If that creature's controller or that player is poisoned, it deals 4 damage instead.
So you still have the same gameplay of not wanting a single creature to poison you, but because of the spells that follow, not because of a pump spell.
Poisonous Bolt - R
Instant
Poisonous Bolt deals 2 damage to target creature or player. If that creature's controller or that player is poisoned, it deals 4 damage instead.
So you still have the same gameplay of not wanting a single creature to poison you, but because of the spells that follow, not because of a pump spell.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Poisonous Bolt sounds so unred
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
They can just give them wither instead.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Or, and this is a big or, they can just bring back infect and realize that you'll always have whiners about every single mechanic. Infect barely made a dent in standard and it's fringe playable in modern and lol in vintage.
"But WanderingWind, they won't be able to print 1CMC +10/+10 until EOT instants!"
Look, it took infect to make Giant Growth eternal playable. And a 1 mana +6/+6 wasn't good enough to break the deck. There is your bar development. Think you can make pump spells that aren't 1CMC +6 or highers? I do. I believe in you.
"But WanderingWind, they won't be able to print 1CMC +10/+10 until EOT instants!"
Look, it took infect to make Giant Growth eternal playable. And a 1 mana +6/+6 wasn't good enough to break the deck. There is your bar development. Think you can make pump spells that aren't 1CMC +6 or highers? I do. I believe in you.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Infect is a wincon for affinity though
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Correction: Infect is a wincon for winners.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Or they can just not because they said they won't.
I don't quite understand why people don't understand why certain mechanics have problems just because they liked them.
Storm is actually a BS mechanic and infect is completely insular, especially draft.
Strongly suspect they think Bring Immense actually did break the deck, or at least show them that there's real interaction issues when everything has double strike (heck, Temur Battle Rage is even seeing play now.)
And between Bring Immense and Infect, they think the former is more fun. (I agree.)
The less the game plays like Hearthstone with lots of out-of-nowhere OHKOs, the better.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
And I don't understand why people saying "it's a problem" with no data or evidence besides "I don't like a thing" is worth paying attention to.
Show me how it's a problem. It should be easy. Show me infect taking over a meta or squeezing out fair decks like Brainstorm/FoW decks. Show me how infect makes it hard to develop cards for the future like Birthing Pod. Show me the unfair combo like unrestricted Storm.
You can't. "Infect is a problem" is a sentence that is based 100 percent on feelings and zero percent on any quantifiable data that show it's a problem. We can show why Hypergenisis is banned. We can show why Skullclamp is banned. The only thing you can actually point to with infect is that it doesn't play by the natural rules of the game.
It's not a problem. It's different. And people hate different.
So they just killed deck swap at limited GPs- you open your stuff, the person across from you registers the pool, then gives it back to you http://magic.wizards.com/en/article...-starting-gp-sydney-and-gp-madison-2015-10-08
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Direct answer to expeditions
The deck prevents development from putting strong pump effects within +/- 2 blocks of it. This is a problem when they're heavily pushing said pump effects (TBR, BI, Titan's Strength) in Standard and they seem to like them.
"All my creatures have doublestrike" IS a development problem. That's in addition to the fact that many people hate the deck because it's not fun to play against.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Because it sucks in draft and only plays well with itself and the pump effects around it that have to balanced way less good. This isn't hard.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Interesting. This opens up some additional avenues for cheating, but they're probably minimal?
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Again, the bar is already pretty high. If they can't not print a 1CMC +7/7, then okay. Maybe we look at banning that card. But despite the feelings on Become Immense, it quantifiable hasn't broken the deck. The deck continues to be barely played in any real sense.
And they can absolutely print "All my creatures have double strike." They have. With infect, it wouldn't even fit in any version of the deck and would have to be costed so low as to break any aggro deck. Temur Battle Rage is what you're really talking about, as with infect "all creatures" really means "the one creature I have." But it hasn't even warped the limited infect meta to allow for red to be splashed.
And that last point is exactly why it's an 8 on MaRo's scale and that's nonsense. People hate counters, so we get crap control decks. People hated Annihilate, so we got whatever the hell is going on with BFZ. People hate basically everything that's new or different or isn't big, battleship Magic. If we start banning stuff because "people don't like playing against it" then Magic will be solitaire.
Because the real thing people hate is any deck, archetype or card that causes them to lose. Infect isn't Eggs. It isn't Volt Key. It isn't even Storm pre-Seething Song ban. It's a one trick combo deck that more often than not dies to Path to Exile or Bolt.
Case in point.
Who are the ones arguing from emotion here?
Become Immense ended up putting a giant spotlight on the issue- the issue was always there.
Infect is a combo deck. It looks like an aggro deck, but its really a combo deck, and thats why its miserable. Same way getting hit by Savage Roar + Force of Nature in HS always wants to make you throw a brick through your monitor.
Become Immense ended up putting a giant spotlight on the issue- the issue was always there.
Infect is a combo deck. It looks like an aggro deck, but its really a combo deck, and thats why its miserable. Same way getting hit by Savage Roar + Force of Nature in HS always wants to make you throw a brick through your monitor.
Seems cumbersome to have to write down both pools, but it definitely fixes more problems than it creates. I like it.
Definitely still possible, but Forsythe commented a few minutes ago on minimizing the risk.
Aaron Forsythe
@mtgaaron
@pie15301 @HeleneBergeot It is our desire to make seating random from now on, Mike.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Okay, let's see:
kirblar said:
WanderingWind said:
Don't be disingenuous. People dislike Infect for emotional reasons. It's not unbalanced against the field.
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