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[OnPoint]

Marit Lage tokens were only given out as prerelease items during Coldsnap. They are extremely expensive (as far as tokens go, they're like $20 off of SCG).

I have one and I"m glad I do. It's amazing to be able to lay that on the table.

 

[Yeef]

It basically sets up your entire game plan, t1 that, into t2, beast master savant, into another hardened scales and you are set for the game. Without it, their creatures are way worse/slower. It's pretty much the primary win condition, especially with decks with lots of removal (see: all of them).

Savant mana can only play creatures. I'd think the curve you'd want would be turn 1 Hardened scales, turn 2 hangarback, turn 3 Anafenza/Undergrowth Champion.

 

[WanderingWind]

you're not playing ojutai?

i concede that ojutai's command and dragonmaster outcast are pretty sweet together

but it reminds me of scute mob and ranger of eos back in the day. cute but not sure if serious tier one potential

Scute mob is always serious business.

 

["God's Beard!"]

There's a 2k PPTQ this weekend but half my cards from trades haven't even shipped yet. I didn't realize that a big one was coming up so soon. I'm definitely happy enough with Jeskai Black right now to test it in a nice local tournament.

Marit Lage tokens were only given out as prerelease items during Coldsnap. They are extremely expensive (as far as tokens go, they're like $20 off of SCG).

Yeah, that's why I don't have one. Every time I get a chance, it's like, "do I really want to trade these cards for a token?" and I wind up backing out. My token pile is half the size of my EDH deck so it's kind of annoying that I don't have one, though.

i don't know mate

the mana base seems like a mare

i loathed the vivid mana base during lorwyn. i ain't gonna touch that with a ten foot pole.

you're not playing ojutai?

i concede that ojutai's command and dragonmaster outcast are pretty sweet together

but it reminds me of scute mob and ranger of eos back in the day. cute but not sure if serious tier one potential

I could play Ojutai or Gideon, but they're expensive plays and the deck doesn't like tapping out. I have two of each so I could test with them more, though. Also, I like that Abzan Charm is generally pretty mediocre against the deck.

You're right that the mana is slightly wonky. Because of the fetches and Battlelands available you wind up with a lot of extra black sources and just barely enough red. It's possible that it's correct to run the green fetches in some number, but that interferes with a lot of the other stuff going on with the mana and sequencing. It's hard to figure out with 100% confidence.

Here's my current list with my most updated mana base:

 

[Angry Grimace]

Just admit you want to go full 5 color and curve Jace into Mantis Rider into Siege Rhino

 

[Angry Grimace]

oh hey guys did you hear about my new spec

#mtgfinance

 

[OnPoint]

I'm just gonna start buying out random crappy cards.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I wish I had the disposable income to fund playsets of fetchlands and expeditions and shit like you guys can.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I wish I had the disposable income to fund playsets of fetchlands and expeditions and shit like you guys can.

Disposable income? It's all about drafting and trading your unneeded cards for fetches before they hit 20 dollars a pop.

Also, slowly building a binder over months.

 

[Danielsan]

I wish I had the disposable income to fund playsets of fetchlands and expeditions and shit like you guys can.

I've slowly been getting into Magic over the course of this year and I want to try my hand at some FNM soon. However, I don't think I can reasonably compete without netdecking and owning sets of fetchlands. Sadly I can't see myself paying € 60 for a single set of fetchlands any time soon.

Guess I'll try my hand at booster draft first.

Edit: I've been contemplating picking up a Khans boosterbox. I know boosterboxes are generally considered poor value, as you tend to be better off getting the singles you want rather than chancing on a bunch of booster, but Khans has a ton of cards that I would like to get some copies of (fetches, Siege Rhinos, Mantis Riders, etc..).

 

[Socat]

I've slowly been getting into Magic over the course of this year and I want to try my hand at some FNM soon. However, I don't think I can reasonably compete without netdecking and owning sets of fetchlands. Sadly I can't see myself paying € 60 for a single set of fetchlands any time soon.

Guess I'll try my hand at booster draft first.

Edit: I've been contemplating picking up a Khans boosterbox. I know boosterboxes are generally considered poor value, as you tend to be better off getting the singles you want rather than chancing on a bunch of booster, but Khans has a ton of cards that I would like to get some copies of (fetches, Siege Rhinos, Mantis Riders, etc..).

Much more cost effective to just buy the playsets of singles you need. Mantis Riders are hovering around $1 and rhinos are less than $5 or at least they were when I got mine.

 

[Haines]

Damn.

Was looking very much to going to my very first FNM (draft) but ork called me in at the last minute for exactly 5-9

So after teaching myself how to draft all week, now im going to a sealed prerelease kit game. Costs tice as much but also get twice the cards so whatevs.

Any tips for going tmrw? I assume it will play a little more standard thn a draft would have had bc you arent fighting over colors and such being passed around.

 

[Grakl]

Lucario and I split for first and second on Wednesday BfZ draft, couple power right there.

I ended up playing RW aggro -- was hella fun, deck was broke.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Finally put Kiora into my bant deck and am loving her.

Turn 1 Dork, Turn 2 whatever, Turn 3 Kiora either minus if you have a body defending or plus untap dork and land to play a body.

 

[Danielsan]

Much more cost effective to just buy the playsets of singles you need. Mantis Riders are hovering around $1 and rhinos are less than $5 or at least they were when I got mine.

Yeah, I know I should be able to get most of the cards I want for less than the price of a boosterbox. That said, pulling a couple of fetches should recoup most of the costs of a boosterbox.

Damn.

Was looking very much to going to my very first FNM (draft) but ork called me in at the last minute for exactly 5-9

So after teaching myself how to draft all week, now im going to a sealed prerelease kit game. Costs tice as much but also get twice the cards so whatevs.

Any tips for going tmrw? I assume it will play a little more standard thn a draft would have had bc you arent fighting over colors and such being passed around.

I went to my first sealed event last week so I'm not exactly experienced, but tips as far as I'm concerned:

- Take at least 18 mana in your sealed deck in BfZ
- Try to create a deck with a theme, landfall, allies, devoid/ingest, lifegain
- If you draw a bomb rare, don't create your deck around it if your cards in that/those colours are bad
- If you're going with a landfall deck evolving wilds and blighted woodlands are your friends
- From my experience you'll be seeing a lot of folks playing ramp decks in order to get some big Eldrazi on the table, make sure you side in some removal that can take down the big dudes
- Good removal is important

 

[Socat]

I went to my first sealed event last week so I'm not exactly experience, but tips as far as I'm concerned:

- Take at least 18 mana in your sealed deck in BfZ
- Try to create a deck with a theme, landfall, allies, devoid/ingest, lifegain
- If you draw a bomb rare, don't create your deck around if your cards in that/those colours are bad
- If you're going with a landfall deck evolving wilds and blighted woodlands are your friends
- From my experience you'll be seeing a lot of folks playing ramp decks in order to get some big Eldrazi on the table, make sure you side in some removal that can take down the big dudes
- Good removal is important

Before prepping for the BFZ prerelease, I scoffed at 5cc removal, but in this format, it's about the best you can hope for

 

[Bandini]

Before prepping for the BFZ prerelease, I scoffed at 5cc removal, but in this format, it's about the best you can hope for

Lots of good low cast removal in white: Sheer Drop, Gideon's Reproach, Stasis Snare

 

[Socat]

Lots of good low cast removal in white: Sheer Drop, Gideon's Reproach, Stasis Snare

But that's only in white, so not feasible for everyone

 

[SigmasonicX]

Damn.

Was looking very much to going to my very first FNM (draft) but ork called me in at the last minute for exactly 5-9

So after teaching myself how to draft all week, now im going to a sealed prerelease kit game. Costs tice as much but also get twice the cards so whatevs.

Any tips for going tmrw? I assume it will play a little more standard thn a draft would have had bc you arent fighting over colors and such being passed around.

You actually have less chance of building the deck you want in Sealed, because you are looking at less cards overall--a total of six packs instead of three for each player. So the law of averages plays a bigger role when it comes to what cards you get.

Given that:
* Remember to open all of your packs right when you are instructed.
* Don't worry about other people seeing your cards. You probably won't play against the guys around you.
* Organize your pool of cards by color and then by casting cost. Separate the creatures from the noncreatures. Above all else when deciding your colors, you want to make sure you have a lot of decent creatures.
* Especially in this format, creatures that cost 1 mana or even 2 mana aren't too important. You can get away with zero of the former and one or two of the latter. You still want more three mana creatures than any other cost, though.
* Creatures with flying are great in this format, since there are so many big creatures on the ground. This applies to most Limited formats, but a 2/2 flier for 3 mana is good, and even a 2-power flying for 4 mana isn't a bad deal. Flying creatures with just 1 power aren't worth it, though. Even if you don't have many, you need a strategy to deal with your opponent's flying creatures.
* Even without much mana fixing (the ability to cast multiple colors), you can fairly easily build a three-color deck in this format due to how long games go on. Still, remember that you want to be able to cast your spells with the land you have. Organize your cards by what turn you ideally want to be able to cast them and figure out what combination of lands would be needed to do that. From that, you determine how many of each basic land you want.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yeah, I know I should be able to get most of the cards I want for less than the price of a boosterbox. That said, pulling a couple of fetches should recoup most of the costs of a boosterbox.

It'll still be cheaper to get the cards and fetches you need than you'll get from whatever value you pull + the cards you'll still need to buy afterwards.

Unless you're drafting buying a box is always bad value. You're gonna get about 4-5 fetches and some random cards that nobody will want in trades.

I mean, for around the price of a box, you could get at TCG low 4 windswept heaths, 4 rhinos, 2 dromoka's command, 4 Abzan Charm, 4 Sandsteppe Citadel, 4 Caves of Koilos, 4 llanowar wastes, 2 Ruinous Path, 4 Rakshasa Deathdealer, 4 heir of the wilds, 4 warden of the first tree, 2 Wingmate Roc and 4 Anafenza.

That by itself is practically ready for FNM.

Would your deck be better with Deathmist/Den Protector, Hangarback Walkers and Gideon? Probably, but it's still playable and buying a box isn't going to get you those cards either.

 

[Angry Grimace]

The fact that you neeed 10 fetchlands to play the most competitive deck is kind of a problem though.

 

["God's Beard!"]

The fact that you neeed 10 fetchlands to play the most competitive deck is kind of a problem though.

It's true, if you wanna play Atarka Red or one of the 4-5 color decks it's an issue, but the other decks aren't embarrassing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181157326]It's true, if you wanna play Atarka Red or one of the 4-5 color decks it's an issue, but the other decks aren't embarrassing.[/QUOTE]

Even if you were playing straight Abzan, you could still probably see some benefit from off-color fetchlands.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181150664]Disposable income? It's all about drafting and trading your unneeded cards for fetches before they hit 20 dollars a pop.

Also, slowly building a binder over months.[/QUOTE]
Delta started at like $8 though. Every rare Zendikar land starts at like $10.

Is draft the best way to get those hard-to-acquire cards?

 

[Joe Molotov]

Delta started at like $8 though.

Is draft the best way to get those hard-to-acquire cards, apart from dropping on a fatpack?

Fatpacks aren't cost effective because you're paying $40 for 9 packs (at MSRP). People are only buying BFZ fatpacks because of the fullart basic lands. If you really want to crack packs, you should buy a box since the packs come out to less than $3 a pack, generally (you can usually find boxes for around $100 online). Unless you crack an expedition though, you're probably going to open less value than if you spent that $100 to buy singles.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Delta started at like $8 though. Every rare Zendikar land starts at like $10.

Is draft the best way to get those hard-to-acquire cards?

No, don't listen to God's Beard. The most cost-efficient way to get the cards you need is going on TCGplayer and buying the lowest priced singles you need.

 

[Socat]

No, don't listen to God's Beard. The most cost-efficient way to get the cards you need is going on TCGplayer and buying the lowest priced singles you need.

Yep, just save up and look for good prices, unless you are super good at speculating increases in value and get ahead of the curve

 

[Yeef]

So apparently with the latest comp rules update, you can no longer bestow creatures at instant speed with Prophet of Kruphix. It's kind of a bummer, because I thought that was part of what made the design so interesting in Theros limited.

 

[OnPoint]

So apparently with the latest comp rules update, you can no longer bestow creatures at instant speed with Prophet of Kruphix. It's kind of a bummer, because I thought that was part of what made the design so interesting in Theros limited.

Pretty cool that they "fixed" that after it rotated out though. What a joke.

 

[Yeef]

I wouldn't say fixed. it was clear from the beginning that it was an intentional part of the design. This is just a case of "most players think it works one way and it works another, so let's side with intuition." The rules change also affects cards like Savage Summoning and Scout's Warning.

 

[y2dvd]

I would probably go ahead and buy the fetches that you need. No one is really opening Khans anymore, so they only gonna go up. People have probably made their playset already and have already traded any extra copies they had. Other cards, you could probably trade for.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

So apparently with the latest comp rules update, you can no longer bestow creatures at instant speed with Prophet of Kruphix. It's kind of a bummer, because I thought that was part of what made the design so interesting in Theros limited.

What does that mean for Boon Satyr?

Edit: Oh I get it, if you cast it as an aura it never gets the flash I can see how that can be confusing.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Seems like it was always that way -

9/15/2013 If you’re casting a creature spell with bestow, whether or not it has flash will depend on if you’re casting it as a creature or as an Aura. Prophet of Kruphix won’t give flash to a spell with bestow you’re casting as an Aura.

(Boon Satyr has Flash on the card so it has flash as an aura or as a creature)

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I would probably go ahead and buy the fetches that you need. No one is really opening Khans anymore, so they only gonna go up. People have probably made their playset already and have already traded any extra copies they had. Other cards, you could probably trade for.

Unless I find crazy low steals, I'm gonna rough it without the fetches. Standard lands are just out of control in price.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Unless I find crazy low steals, I'm gonna rough it without the fetches. Standard lands are just out of control in price.

You can just sell them at the end of the season though. Unlike a lot of lands (e.g. Temples from Theros) these are played in Modern as the staple lands, so they're not going to dip any more than they already have.

You can go without them if you want, just know that if you end up liking constructed you'll be on TCGplayer this time next week ordering your playset of fetchlands =P

 

[Yeef]

What does that mean for Boon Satyr?

Absolutely nothing. That natively has flash.

The main hangup is that a lot of people apparently don't know the difference between creature cards and creature spells. Since bestow cards are creature cards in your hand but aura spells on the stack you could cast them as though they had flash. If Prophet had the same wording as Teferi (creature cards you own that aren't on the battlefield have Flash", it'd still work as it always had.

Seems like it was always that way -

9/15/2013 If you’re casting a creature spell with bestow, whether or not it has flash will depend on if you’re casting it as a creature or as an Aura. Prophet of Kruphix won’t give flash to a spell with bestow you’re casting as an Aura.

(Boon Satyr has Flash on the card so it has flash as an aura or as a creature)

That ruling was changed with the most recent update, but they didn't change the date on it.

This was the original ruling:

9/15/2013: You can cast a creature card with bestow as an Aura as though it had flash.

 

[Daedardus]

I still don't get why you aren't allowed to always cast it as though it had flash, what rule did they change? Isn't it still a creature card in your hand, like you said?

 

[Angry Grimace]

I still don't get why you aren't allowed to always cast it as though it had flash, what rule did they change? Isn't it still a creature card in your hand, like you said?

They wanted to make it more confusing I guess.

 

[Yeef]

Don't know the specific wording yet, since the document hasn't gone up, but in the update bulletin, Tabak outlines the change.

601.2 and 601.2e

We improved the rules for casting a spell in the last update, so some interactions based on how or from where you could cast a spell were clearer. For example, most players thought Prophet of Kruphix would affect a spell with bestow cast as a creature but not one cast as an Aura. Now that's true! The way it breaks down is you propose the spell you're going to cast, meaning you make choices like which half of a split card you're using, how you're going to pay any alternative or additional costs, and so on. Then the game checks to see that the spell you've proposed is legal. Then you determine and pay costs. Simple, right?

The problem was a very strict reading of the rule said that the only time the game checked anything was after you proposed a spell. You could just propose whatever you wanted and the game would eventually stop you. Well, that could work, right? Not really. For example, there was nothing (other than common sense, but who's counting?) stopping you from proposing casting the fourth card of your opponent's library. You'd put that card on the stack, find out it was illegal to cast it, and the game would rewind. Fun way to look at everything, right? So I adjusted some verbiage to account for this.

I am proud to report that this oversight affected zero actual games of Magic. I checked.

Basically, it sounds like casting a spell checks the card type after you put it on the stack rather than before.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I just don't get it. It seems more complicated this way.

 

[MjFrancis]

Unless I find crazy low steals, I'm gonna rough it without the fetches. Standard lands are just out of control in price.

I feel for you, I really do. When I started with INN-RAV Standard the field was 3-color plus decks that were all shocklands and checklands. Some of the decks I played didn't even run basics. And there I was, playing Rakdos or Boros budget decks because they cost less than a single playset of shocks did. Paying that amount of money to even begin playing the game sounded crazy to me.

Of course I've kept playing since then, and even though I made some decks for Standard during RAV-THEROS & THEROS-KHANS (Mono-Black Control/Abzan Aggro) they were all budget-ish and I was spending most of the time building Modern decks and drafting. Any draft winnings or pulls I got that didn't fit those decks got traded or sold towards land, and since the year Khans of Tarkir came out I am set on fetchlands. Consequently I am set to buy in on Standard now since I can slap a lots of decks together for less than $100. I would not have done that two years ago.

I'd do the same thing you are were I in your shoes. Play budget now, build a collection over time.

 

[Daedardus]

So it only becomes an Aura spell once on the stack, but it checks if it's still a creature card when you propose but before it goes on the stack, which it still is, and it will say that it is illegal? This only confuses me more.

Or does it check when it goes on the stack? Because then no other creature can be cast since they become creature spells too.

 

[pigeon]

Don't know the specific wording yet, since the document hasn't gone up, but in the update bulletin, Tabak outlines the change. Basically, it sounds like casting a spell checks the card type after you put it on the stack rather than before.

I feel like this is a problem with the card text more than the rules. If a "creature card" is any card that you're casting as a creature, it should be called a "creature spell." The strong implication of "creature card" is that the game cares about some aspect of the card that exists regardless of its current state relative to the game. And as far as I can tell that used to be true! But now, confusingly, it's not.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Maybe I'm crazy but I think Complete Disregard is a better card than Reave Soul. It costs one more sure, but the format isn't that fast and killing Hangarback permanently at instant speed seems completely worth it. It's funny that this is an actual discussion about constructed in a Standard in which decks cost $600.00. (Decks cost $600.00 right at the beginning of Standard last year too, btw)

 

[kirblar]

Maybe I'm crazy but I think Complete Disregard is a better card than Reave Soul. It costs one more sure, but the format isn't that fast and killing Hangarback permanently at instant speed seems completely worth it. It's funny that this is an actual discussion about constructed in a Standard in which decks cost $600.00. (Decks cost $600.00 right at the beginning of Standard last year too, btw)

I don't think you're crazy, I agree.

 

[Socat]

Maybe I'm crazy but I think Complete Disregard is a better card than Reave Soul. It costs one more sure, but the format isn't that fast and killing Hangarback permanently at instant speed seems completely worth it. It's funny that this is an actual discussion about constructed in a Standard in which decks cost $600.00. (Decks cost $600.00 right at the beginning of Standard last year too, btw)

Hence why I'm building Atarka Red

 

[Angry Grimace]

Hence why I'm building Atarka Red

Atarka Red still has a minimum of 4 fetchlands in it and the Atarka in Atarka Red is like 15 bucks a pop.

 

[Firemind]

Atarka Red still has a minimum of 4 fetchlands in it and the Atarka in Atarka Red is like 15 bucks a pop.

Yes but you get to play Veronique Meignaud mountains.

 

[Joe Molotov]

If you run the Brian Demars version Atarka Red that won Indy, you're looking at ~$300, and that's without even counting the 4 Hangarback Walkers he had in the sideboard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If you run the Brian Demars version Atarka Red that won Indy, you're looking at ~$300, and that's without even counting the 4 Hangarback Walkers he had in the sideboard.

I don't think that deck is gonna surprise people anymore though. It got a ton of wins off of "no blocks" without any removal in hand which he then pumped to 15 or something.