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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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Joe Molotov

Joe Molotov

Member
Angry Grimace said:
I don't think that deck is gonna surprise people anymore though. It got a ton of wins off of "no blocks" without any removal in hand which he then pumped to 15 or something.
Click to expand...

True, but most variants I've seen are still running 8-10 fetches, Abbots, and Atarka's Commands, which is where most of the cost comes in.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
kirblar said:
The deck plays a lot like Infect, actually.
Click to expand...

Having to actually get to 20 isn't great though. It kind of reminds me of Brave Naya (RTR-THS) except way more fragile and way less amusing when it works.

Joe Molotov said:
True, but most variants I've seen are still running 8-10 fetches, Abbots, and Atarka's Commands, which is where most of the cost comes in.
Click to expand...

I just think the incentive is there to go wide more than sneaking a bunch of pump spells past your opponent. There's a lot of reason for opponents to say "no blocks" when DeMars came swinging in when you're at 14 with a single Monastery Swiftspear and three open mana. I don't think the common logic was to typically worry about taking 16 and losing the game from Temur Battle Rage and Become Immense.
 
E

Etrian Oddity

Member
This wait for BfZ to hit MtGO is such bullshit. I use it as my simulator/trial runner for prospective cards to buy in real life, so I'm losing patience just looking at the speculation market. :mad:
 
M

MjFrancis

Member
I thought about going Atarka Red, but I like a lot about this Grixis Aggro deck here instead. Everyone is expecting the pump now, so why not go to a build that is closer to Atarka Red's sideboard where he sides in the Thunderbreak Regents? It's really just Big Red with a black splash for Fate Reforged Kolaghan and Forerunner of Slaughter and a blue splash for Treasure Cruise because it's Treasure Cruise.

Sideboard options are nice too, but I really like the mainboard plan. If I could switch out the Forerunner of Slaughter I'd be tempted to splash white for Crackling Doom in there too. It works for Jeskai Black, so why not here?

Decklist:

3 Abbot of Keral Keep
3 Forerunner of Slaughter
2 Goblin Heelcutter
1 Lightning Berserker
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Thunderbreak Regent
2 Kolaghan, the Storm's Fury
3 Zurgo Bellstriker

4 Draconic Roar
3 Wild Slash
4 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Treasure Cruise

7 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Blighted Fen
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
3 Smoldering Marsh
2 Sunken Hollow
4 Wooded Foothills

SB:
2 Scab-Clan Berserker
1 Outpost Siege
1 Arc Lightning
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Ob Nixilis Reignited
1 Act of Treason
1 Boiling Earth
2 Duress
1 Rending Volley
4 Self-Inflicted Wound
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Etrian Oddity said:
This wait for BfZ to hit MtGO is such bullshit. I use it as my simulator/trial runner for prospective cards to buy in real life, so I'm losing patience just looking at the speculation market. :mad:
Click to expand...

I'm in a draft right now!
 
K

kirblar

Member
Having to actually get to 20 isn't great though. It kind of reminds me of Brave Naya (RTR-THS) except way more fragile and way less amusing when it works.
Click to expand...
Temur Battle Rage helps. ;)

The play pattern is very similar.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Temur battle rage on a makindi sliderunner is actually pretty good.

Grixis aggro, eh I'm not feeling it.

Edit: holy shit how about t4 play fetch, atarka's command, play fetch, deal 3 damage, temur battle rage. 15 damage lol
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
kirblar said:
Temur Battle Rage helps. ;)

The play pattern is very similar.
Click to expand...
It also reminds me of trying to combo off with Splinter Twin except it doesn't win the game on the spot - it seems kind of unfair except only insane people would try and combo off with it into open mana unless you absolutely knew your opponent didn't know what you were doing.

It just seems like 2-for-1 city if the field knows about the deck. Unlike Brave Naya or even Heroic from last year, it has no real way to protect itself from any kind of removal. Infect at least has Vines.

Firemind said:
Temur battle rage on a makindi sliderunner is actually pretty good.

Grixis aggro, eh I'm not feeling it.

Edit: holy shit how about t4 play fetch, atarka's command, play fetch, deal 3 damage, temur battle rage. 15 damage lol
Click to expand...
I see the appeal, but you likely lose the game on the spot if your opponent plays anything to stop your Sliderunner at the end of the chain. Not that I think you need me to tell you this, it just scares me out of the idea of even trying a deck like that.
 
S

Socat

Member
MjFrancis said:
I know it's not on everyone's spotlight right now but it got 30th at the SCG Open and just got 1st at a GPT in Indianapolis. Plus if I try it out I don't have to buy a playset of Baby Jace's, lol.
Click to expand...

Yea, as much as I want to try out Jeskai Black, I don't have it in me to invest in Jaces.
 
H

Haines

Banned
SigmasonicX said:
You actually have less chance of building the deck you want in Sealed, because you are looking at less cards overall--a total of six packs instead of three for each player. So the law of averages plays a bigger role when it comes to what cards you get.

Given that:
* Remember to open all of your packs right when you are instructed.
* Don't worry about other people seeing your cards. You probably won't play against the guys around you.
* Organize your pool of cards by color and then by casting cost. Separate the creatures from the noncreatures. Above all else when deciding your colors, you want to make sure you have a lot of decent creatures.
* Especially in this format, creatures that cost 1 mana or even 2 mana aren't too important. You can get away with zero of the former and one or two of the latter. You still want more three mana creatures than any other cost, though.
* Creatures with flying are great in this format, since there are so many big creatures on the ground. This applies to most Limited formats, but a 2/2 flier for 3 mana is good, and even a 2-power flying for 4 mana isn't a bad deal. Flying creatures with just 1 power aren't worth it, though. Even if you don't have many, you need a strategy to deal with your opponent's flying creatures.
* Even without much mana fixing (the ability to cast multiple colors), you can fairly easily build a three-color deck in this format due to how long games go on. Still, remember that you want to be able to cast your spells with the land you have. Organize your cards by what turn you ideally want to be able to cast them and figure out what combination of lands would be needed to do that. From that, you determine how many of each basic land you want.
Click to expand...

Everything you said makes 100% sense to me. I guess the only thing i need to make sure i get right is my lands being set up right. i really dont want to manan screw myself, and its the thing i understand the least coming from hearthstone where its just crystals added.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Can I sign up for worst BFZ fat pack?

8G1PZU5.jpg
Click to expand...

I expect the only three cards at around $5 to drop anyway and the rest is below $1 already. I basically paid €40 for 80 full art lands, should've bought them as singles instead.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
That guy on CFB is trying to get "Dark Jacekai" to stick as a deck name. Literally worse than any proposed name for the BFZ Duals. Even O'Duals.
 
S

Socat

Member
Haines said:
Everything you said makes 100% sense to me. I guess the only thing i need to make sure i get right is my lands being set up right. i really dont want to manan screw myself, and its the thing i understand the least coming from hearthstone where its just crystals added.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.
Click to expand...

From the Reid Duke Level One series:

To play a deck equally reliant on all three colors of mana is possible, but difficult. After all, the more things that can go wrong, the less often things will go exactly right. Here are a few more guidelines to use as a starting point:

For a 40-card deck, if you really want to have a land that produces a certain color of mana in your opening hand, you should play at least ten lands that produce that color (eleven or twelve to be safe).
For a 60-card deck, you should play at least fifteen or sixteen lands that produce that color (seventeen or eighteen to be safe).

http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/lo/basics-mana-2014-08-18
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Haines said:
Everything you said makes 100% sense to me. I guess the only thing i need to make sure i get right is my lands being set up right. i really dont want to manan screw myself, and its the thing i understand the least coming from hearthstone where its just crystals added.

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.
Click to expand...
In this format, you more often than not want 18 lands, rather than 17 like in a lot of other limited formats.

Usually in sealed, what I like to do is separate my removal (cards that get rid of opposing threats) and fixing (cards that let you play more colors easily) to figure out which of my colors is the strongest and how many colors I can afford to play. Removal is super-important in limited and if you're on the fence about playing two colors that are about equal in terms of creatures, the removal is what's going to help you decide which to play.

Another important thing to keep in mind is finishers. If you have a ton of removal but few or no creatures that can close out the game in a decent amount of time, there's a good chance you'll lose in the late game. Creatures with evasion, like flying, trample and menace, tend to make good finishers.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Daedardus said:
Can I sign up for worst BFZ fat pack?



I expect the only three cards at around $5 to drop anyway and the rest is below $1 already. I basically paid €40 for 80 full art lands, should've bought them as singles instead.
Click to expand...

Oblivion Sower, Nissa's Renewal, Ruinous Path seem pretty good
 
I

Infinite Stars

Member
TFW testing a deck on X-Mage you misclick and redirect Lethal to Koth as opposed to the opponent.

Worst Feeling ever.

BFZ Packs continue to be the bane of my existence as I've yet to open a Mythic in the 25ish Packs I've opened.
 
D

Daedardus

Member
Ashodin said:
Oblivion Sower, Nissa's Renewal, Ruinous Path seem pretty good
Click to expand...

Nissa's Renewal is a $0.80 card and Ruinous Path being sorcery speed makes it nearly worthless for everything I play, I don't play standard. Oblivion Sower is not bad but pretty meh for a mythic. Rather had a Void Winnower, that card is at least fun to play with it. I have zero use for all of the pulled cards.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Daedardus said:
Can I sign up for worst BFZ fat pack?



I expect the only three cards at around $5 to drop anyway and the rest is below $1 already. I basically paid €40 for 80 full art lands, should've bought them as singles instead.
Click to expand...

Did you see mine? I got two Aligned Hedron Networks
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I never said I was good at draft, but it started off well before all the delicious, sweet white removal evaporated. Seriously, didn't see another Sheer Drop, Smite, Stasis Snare, Reproach after the first pack. I was cutting white pretty hard too. The first opponent I played was U/W also, so I don't know if he forced it or what because I sure as shit didn't pass him anything good in either color.

LOjZmTh.png


Basically my path to victory is "well, its hard to block fliers."

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181184636]It might be outmoded, but I do love me some online trading.





Josh Silvestri seems like a weird dude from my rare interactions with him. He talks in real life like the people on r/spikes do on the internet.[/QUOTE]

I think he's salty:

pBNupiV.png
 
S

SigmasonicX

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181190338]Deflecting Palm for secret sideboard tech[/QUOTE]

With double strike, that would only prevent half of the damage, right?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
SigmasonicX said:
With double strike, that would only prevent half of the damage, right?
Click to expand...

Correct. Each instance of damage from double strike (one from first strike, another from normal combat damage) is a different instance of damage.
 
C

cory64

Member
Imo "Shard/Wedge/Guild/Brood [Color]" should be reserved for when a deck emphasizes a color that that name already contains, like Atarka Red. Something else should be figured out for CCC+c decks, CCcc decks, Ccc+c decks, etc.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Jeskai Black is a reasonable description of what it is - a base Jeskai deck splashing black. "Dark Jacekai" sounds like someone's handle on the Dragon Ball Z fanforums.

I mean, guy is correct, I guess, but the SCG and CFB editors aren't going to go with something as lame as Dark Jacekai either.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Angry Grimace said:
Jeskai Black is a reasonable description of what it is - a base Jeskai deck splashing black. "Dark Jacekai" sounds like someone's handle on the Dragon Ball Z fanforums.

I mean, guy is correct, I guess, but the SCG and CFB editors aren't going to go with something as lame as Dark Jacekai either.
Click to expand...
Cedric would suggest it with a shit-eating grin and Sullivan would tell him he's being an idiot.
 
A

A Serious Man

Member
Welp, this first BfZ draft was pretty gross. I was happy with the deck but I got flooded or screwed every single game until the final round. feelsbadman.jpg
 
G

Giant Panda

Member
I played someone that was playing a slightly modified BFZ event deck. Our one game took the entire 50 minutes because he was spaming the battlefield like crazy with scions, and then sacing them while he had a smothering abomination and catacomb sifter out. Alter's reap: scry, then draw 3. Bone spliters: scry, draw, and then kill your creature. I only won at the end because my wingmate roc overran his thopters.
 
H

Haines

Banned
As a newbie, this thread doesnt read like french. More like alien.

I played the origins game on my ipad some tonight. Its fun to learn, but i find magic very daunting trying to learn more then one set at a time.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
Haines said:
As a newbie, this thread doesnt read like french. More like alien.

I played the origins game on my ipad some tonight. Its fun to learn, but i find magic very daunting trying to learn more then one set at a time.
Click to expand...
Certain color combinations have associated names based on past sets.

Ravnica gives us the names of the 2-color pairs; in that set there were 10 guilds, each a different set of 2 colors:
  • White + Blue = Azorius
  • Blue + Black = Dimir
  • Black + Red = Rakdos
  • Red + Green = Gruul
  • Green + White = Selesnya
  • White + Black = Orzhov
  • Blue + Red = Izzet
  • Black + Green = Golgari
  • Red + White = Boros
  • Green + Blue = Simic
The 3-color combinations get their names from 2 different sets, the shards from Shards of Alara and the clans from Khans of Tarkir:
  • White + Blue + Green = Bant
  • Blue + Black + White = Esper
  • Black + Red + Blue = Grixis
  • Red + Green + Black = Jund
  • Green + White + Red = Naya
  • White + Black + Green = Abzan
  • Blue + Red + White = Jeskai
  • Black + Green + Blue = Sultai
  • Red + White + Black = Madru
  • Green + Blue + Red = Temur

Usually players will use these names to refer to any deck in those colors, even if they don't fit the flavor of the original set. Golgari, for example, is very graveyard-focused, but players will call any BLack and Green deck a Golgari deck, even if it doesn't focus on the graveyard.

When people say they're playing "Jeskai Black" for example, what they mean is that they're playing a Jeskai deck (Red, White and Blue) with a black splash (playing just a couple of black cards).

If you ever need to look up individual cards, magiccards.info is a great source (though it hasn't been updated for Battle for Zendikar yet). Gatherer, the official database, is also pretty good, though it doesn't have as many options for searching.
 
P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
At FNM, Dark Jeskai was the name of choice. It was sad. Also it was over 50% of the field. I went 3-1, losing to the Jeskai mirror. I've drilled down my list a bit more, since breaking the mirror is going to be very important moving forward.

I also crushed Abzan Aggro. Crushed. Their mana base isn't as good as ours either.

New list:

Jeskai Midrange.dec, Built with Decked Builder
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/116933
 
Y

Yeef

Member
I drafted a pretty sweet deck tonight.

Cards that I can remember:
  • 2x Bloodbond Vampires
  • Vampiric Rites
  • 3x Complete Disregard
  • 2x Fortified Rampart
  • 4x Courier Griffin
  • Guul Draz Overseer
  • Gideon's Reproach
  • Smite the Monstrous
  • Stasis Snare
  • Drana's Emissary
  • Stone Haven Medic
  • Kor Castigator
  • Felidar Sovereign (got passed this in pack 3 like 4th pick)
  • Pilgrim's Eye
  • 2x Hagra Sharpshooter

Had Rising Miasma and some other good stuff in the board. Unfortunately, I didn't get to win any games from Sovereign's trigger. Fortunately, I didn't lose any games.

This is the second time I've drafted the Black / White lifegain deck (though the other time was more ally-centric) and it's done really well for me both times.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
FNM went great except for the Commander game that blew me out because they hated on me stealing everyone's shit.

Standard tourney didn't fire but I did play some games with my new WBG Ally deck. Totally smashed face with Serene Steward. DA BESS.

Traded a lot of my old Yu-Gi-Oh stuff for cards, here's my haul:

mW1435jh.jpg


Ulamog I straight pulled.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Something just peaked my curiousity, can you process an exiled card as an interrupt?

Like say Jace is being transformed can you play

Image.ashx


to return it to the graveyard from exile instead?
Click to expand...

I think Jace exiles as part of his ability resolving, so it's not on the stack - it's an effect that happens after everything resolves. So you'd flash in the Nullifier and it would look for stuff already there before Jace's ability goes off, which puts him immediately back into play as Jace PW
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Ashodin said:
I think Jace exiles as part of his ability resolving, so it's not on the stack - it's an effect that happens after everything resolves. So you'd flash in the Nullifier and it would look for stuff already there before Jace's ability goes off, which puts him immediately back into play as Jace PW
Click to expand...

oh that'd have been such an awesome interaction.
 
G

"God's Beard!"

Member
pelicansurf said:
At FNM, Dark Jeskai was the name of choice. It was sad. Also it was over 50% of the field. I went 3-1, losing to the Jeskai mirror. I've drilled down my list a bit more, since breaking the mirror is going to be very important moving forward.

I also crushed Abzan Aggro. Crushed. Their mana base isn't as good as ours either.

New list:

Jeskai Midrange.dec, Built with Decked Builder
http://decks.deckedbuilder.com/d/116933
Click to expand...
Play touch of the void instead of rending volley if you want to win the mirror.
 
P

pelicansurf

Needs a Holiday on Gallifrey
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";181216108]Play touch of the void instead of rending volley if you want to win the mirror.[/QUOTE]
1 vs. 3 drop though. Kills Jace, Mantis Rider, and Soulfire and can't be countered. It's way better. They'll exile all those cards when digging / playing Tasigur. Touch of the void would also be good against G/W, but our 3 drop spot is too packed as it is. We need to out-value in the mirror.

Also, instant vs. sorcery
 
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