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[duxstar]

Daniel worked pretty hard to maneuver into that into a loss. I'm kinda impressed.

There's been some epic misplays in this tournament , stuff that most average magic players would do.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Standard isn't even low power right now, it's just that it's entirely Tarkir block providing the power and BFZ providing you nothing other than the mana to play all the good cards in one deck.

 

[traveler]

North Texas

http://yourmagicproshop.com/gaming-events/

Welp, don't think I can justify that commute.

 

[Haines]

Ugh. Frustrated.

I love the limited format. Draft more so than sealed.

Been working friday nights since i started playing and looks to a bit more of that shift yet.

So i hit up a sunday draft with my buddy and it didnt fire. We suspected it wouldnt but now i dunno how to get my magic fix.

I might have to resort to the ipad game. I really dont want to. Kids man. Kids make everything more difficult lol.

 

[Pop-O-Matic]

North Texas

http://yourmagicproshop.com/gaming-events/

 

[duxstar]

This pro tour is super hard to take anything away from. The best deck was a hardened scales deck that because of a handwriting issue had to take a loss in the first round of every game and then you've had basically giant misplays in round 15 and the top 8.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

I'm going to go ahead and nominate Vexing Devil for the "worst card of all time that consistently overperforms" award. Or, conversely, the "most vexingly difficult card to evaluate" award.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Standard isn't even low power right now, it's just that it's entirely Tarkir block providing the power and BFZ providing you nothing other than the mana to play all the good cards in one deck.

Was someone arguing that Standard itself is low power right now? I'm pretty sure everyone agrees that it's just BfZ that's weak.

And what was the handwriting issue with the Hardened Scales deck?

 

[traveler]

His handwriting was so awful it looked like he'd written

1x Plains
1x Plains

to the judges. Which makes zero sense, especially given the 4 maindeck stubborn denial with no other white sources- pretty sure if he actually tried to exploit it and argue he wrote plains twice, it'd be impossible to win given the 2nd line for prairie stream and the aforementioned denials. I can see how this could be exploited in other situations, but there's just no room for misinterpretation here. I guess if they aren't allowed to make situation by situation judgment calls, they should probably just ask before he gets to the top 8 rather than allowing him to play an illegal deck all the way up to the top 8 including presumably illegal wins over other players, then docking him a game for a pretty obvious mistake. That said, how hard is it to write clearly on these things? Just a stupid mess all around.

Edit: You can see the list here:

http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpind15/top-8-decklists-2015-11-01

Edit2: Oh they actually corrected it since I last looked. They did have the list, complete with 2 plains earlier.

 

[Jhriad]

Abzan wins again? Abzan wins again.

 

[duxstar]

In my mind it looked like this in the line

Plains plains

So it looked like plains twice in a row cause bad handwriting but was actually prairie stream

 

[traveler]

In my mind it looked like this in the line

Plains plains

So it looked like plains twice in a row cause bad handwriting but was actually prairie stream

The forms would actually have vertically separated lines, though. So that would have been:

1x Plains
1x Plains Plains

which would make even less sense to me if I were transcribing the list. And what exactly did they think of the uncastable stubborn denials? I just don't understand how this went unnoticed until the top 8.

 

[kirblar]

Given the established R/U theme in Origins, Kaladesh would be a fantastic block to make enemy-colored.

 

[pigeon]

It's very hard to predict the exact power levels of blocks before spoilers start. In general, they only do weak blocks after particularly strong blocks like Khans of Tarkir in order to reset the baseline, so I expect that SoI will be stronger than BfZ, but not as strong as Innistrad, which itself was on the higher end of what's allowed and had to be followed by the weaker Return to Ravnica and Theros.

And yeah, a fairy tale world will be further off, since it has a bit of crossover with Innistrad. Innistrad even already did Little Red Riding Hood!

The funny thing about this post is that during Innistrad spoilers the general consensus was that Innistrad was itself a weak set as part of a power reset after Zendikar. (And if it weren't for Delver of Secrets and Snapcaster Mage, which are both basically development fuckups, it would probably just be a weak set.)

Basically, it's not just hard to predict the power level of a block before spoilers, it's hard to predict it at all.

I imagine from the perspective of the design team, making a block return is probably easier than a new plane even though returning to a plane has a ton of baggage. For the most part it seems as though the philosophy in return blocks is just taking a single part of it and building a new world around the same thing.

On the other hand, design has pretty much screwed up every block return. Which doesn't mean they don't think it's easier, but it does suggest they're wrong.

 

[Haines]

What is

2014 mtgo legacy cube draft

A store is doing it this sunday. Ive never played many cards before bfz so im thinking this would be way over my head?

How do you do a cube draft? Does it come in packs?

 

[SigmasonicX]

What is

2014 mtgo legacy cube draft

A store is doing it this sunday. Ive never played many cards before bfz so im thinking this would be way over my head?

How do you do a cube draft? Does it come in packs?

A cube is when an individual constructs their own "set" out of cards he or she owns, though usually only with one of each card. These cards are randomized and divided into piles, which are treated like booster packs and drafted normally. Generally, these cubes tend to have a variety of very powerful cards from all across Magic's history.

In this case, it's a cube made by Wizards themselves, but for online play only.

I wouldn't recommend it for you.

 

[noquarter]

If it is cheap and you just want to check out some of the cards from MTGs past you should go. If you've only played since BFZ you will probably do pretty poor, but you could still have fun.

 

[Toxi]

Shadows Over Innistrad?

Mmmmmmmmmmmm... I know I shouldn't be excited, but I still am.

 

[Haines]

I think im going to pass on the draft bc i wont know a single card im looking at making even drafting a ton of work.

So, might be more work than fun, even for my opponents in game.

Hopefully i dont have to work friday night so i can grab a bfz draft.

 

[Crocodile]

I think im going to pass on the draft bc i wont know a single card im looking at making even drafting a ton of work.

So, might be more work than fun, even for my opponents in game.

Hopefully i dont have to work friday night so i can grab a bfz draft.

I would recommend you actually go to this Cube Draft. I assume its a fairly laid back event no? Don't shy away from challenges, face them head on - it will be an excellent learning experience.This will be a great way to familiarize yourself with Magic's past and improve your ability to think on you feet both during the draft and in play. In addition to increased efficiency and power level, one of the most appealing aspects of Cubes are the range of interactions you won't see in most other formats. Any well constructed Cube will also encourage you to try to draft decks rather than just a pile of cards so it will really help your ability to learn how to draft "decks" for normal limited formats. Also you get things like packs that are still filled with playable even down to the last card.

Seriously, Cube is the best limited format. The MTGO Cube isn't what I'd personally the best constructed Cube ever but if you love limited, I think the likelihood you'll have a lot of fun is very high!

 

[Neoweee]

So presumably most of the causes of disappointment with BFZ could be linked back to its rocky development, which itself is rooted in the switch of standard life cycles from 2 years to 18 months? Which is why Expeditions were included to add value to a set that could have been perceived as a let down?

Expeditions were likely added as a callback to Priceless Treasures. I doubt they were added due to any expected letdowns determined during development or late design.

 

[The Technomancer]

Okay so perhaps Oath won't reveal too much on the power level of SOI?

So presumably most of the causes of disappointment with BFZ could be linked back to its rocky development, which itself is rooted in the switch of standard life cycles from 2 years to 18 months? Which is why Expeditions were included to add value to a set that could have been perceived as a let down?

Ehhhh...we'll see. I'm still concerned that between this and Magic Origins and how they're talking about letting story influence design to previously unheard levels the problems might also stem from a shift in design philosophy...we'll see come SoI I guess

 

[A Serious Man]

Zero Jeskai, three Abzan decks in GP Indy top 8.

 

[kirblar]

Expeditions were likely added as a callback to Priceless Treasures. I doubt they were added due to any expected letdowns determined during development or late design.

I wouldn't be so sure, there were no expectations of that particular promotion returning

 

[traveler]

Zero Jeskai, three Abzan decks in GP Indy top 8.

I'm literally listening to the moment in the latest episode of Magic TV on CFB where they talk about how people are smart enough right now to recognize that Abzan isn't a great deck compared to Jeskai, it just happened to take the PT.

I wonder what the critical mass of results necessary to stop calling Jeskai Black "clearly the best deck in the format" is, given that megamorph consistently put up better top end results before and Abzan is seemingly doing better right now, with other decks like eldrazi ramp and esper having favorable matchups as well.

Don't get me wrong, the deck is clearly a tier 1 deck and it does powerful things. But it's not good enough to just do powerful things, when the meta has so many other decks doing powerful things that match up favorably against you. Objective power in a vacuum isn't that relevant. I really think this is a case of people wanting to play the newest (relative to the prior standard) tier 1 deck and letting that cloud their judgment.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Looking at Grand Prix Indy's (Standard) top 8, I just realized that Display of Dominance can take out a transformed Jace. That Hardened Scales deck also has a bunch of other cards I didn't expect.

There's a bit more variety than I expected, given that I dropped out of watching coverage after day 1 was mostly the same old decks.

 

[Toxi]

For the first time in my life, I refused to play against proxies.

Look, it's an expensive game, I can understand that, but when you're proxying a full set of Revised duals and a Moat amongst other things in your casual EDH deck I'm gonna give you the side eye. At that point I might as well just play with a stack of flash cards with the appropriate names scribbled on.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

A fairy tale block would be really nice. How cool would it be to have 7 legends (all costing a single R or W preferably) for all 7 of Snow White's dwarves.

They could just incorporate the dwarves into Snow White, like "when Snow White enters the battlefield put 7 1/1 red and white dwarf tokens into play." Then some dwarven buffs and a 1/1 body

For the first time in my life, I refused to play against proxies.

Look, it's an expensive game, I can understand that, but when you're proxying a full set of Revised duals and a Moat in your casual EDH deck I'm gonna give you the side eye.

Couple weeks ago I went to an fnm draft and was a little early so I watched a game of EDH my friend was playing and one of the guys had a fully proxied deck and was constantly cracking up because of what he was about to do...

No shit with a deck that'd cost upwards of a couple thousand if they were real.

 

[Crocodile]

For the first time in my life, I refused to play against proxies.

Look, it's an expensive game, I can understand that, but when you're proxying a full set of Revised duals and a Moat amongst other things in your casual EDH deck I'm gonna give you the side eye. At that point I might as well just play with a stack of flash cards with the appropriate names scribbled on.

Hey man, EDH is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!!!!

If you don't have all the best cards, how will you ever win your games for which no stakes are being played!

 

[WanderingWind]

Power EDH players are just the worst. Well, second worst. First worst are the guys who tried to make Tiny Leaders a thing. Those guys are literally Pol Pot.

 

[traveler]

EDH is kind of a crap format in general really. The likelihood of a group you sit down to play with all having the same expectation for what's "fair" is so slim nearly every game ends with 1 or more players feeling like they were beat by their own self restraint/"honor code" rather than another player. There's no real good way around it either, unless you happen to get to play with the same people every single time and you can all come to an agreement on it.

I tend to hate Power EDH as well, since other formats are far superior in the competitive aspect, and the act of making an edh deck consistent typically involves enough interchangeable parts and/or tutors to completely break down the highlander spirit of the format. Infinite combos feel lame too, since it tends to be a matter of just drawing into your random 2/3 card win out of a 100 card deck, or, worse, tutoring for it. Resource denial? Terrible- you think the other 3 players you just sat down with spent hours pouring over every individual card choice and fun interaction they could get in their deck only to watch you play? Fast or slow, solitaire is still totally boring in a social space. Yet on the other side, fair games tend to play out like standard midrange matches, with 2 for 1s after 2 for 1s getting dropped until one player is left alone enough or gradually grinds out the win. Not exactly thrilling stuff either.

Welp, why did I do this. I'm totally hyped for tomorrow's spoilers now.

 

[ElyrionX]

I'm a semi-spikey EDH player. Don't hate.

But yeah, the format definitely has its issues. I do agree that having powerful tutors increases card redundancy so much that it ruins the highlander spirit of the format. When people can talk about consistent turn 2-4 kills on a multiplayer 100-card singleton format, you know there's an issue.

And that explains why playgroup is so important.

 

[WanderingWind]

Whatever happened to just making a sweet angel deck or forcing a UR counterburn theme? Anybody who plays a Moat in EDH should automatically get a billion year DCI ban and also have to be Chris Van Meter's personal beard groomer for no less than 18 months.

 

[pigeon]

Commander is more or less directly designed for Timmy players. I understand why they wanted to sanction it (to create official Timmy space), but honestly there's a good argument that it was a bad idea because it provided incentives for other people to play it.

 

[ElyrionX]

Whatever happened to just making a sweet angel deck or forcing a UR counterburn theme? Anybody who plays a Moat in EDH should automatically get a billion year DCI ban and also have to be Chris Van Meter's personal beard groomer for no less than 18 months.

I forced UR counterburn (Melek) and it's an amazingly fun deck to play.

Then again, I also recently made a Derevi Lockdown deck that cost more than $2000.

The problem is, arms races inevitably happens. The core of my group is pretty casual but we are very open and welcome new players all the time. Sometimes, these new players have significantly more powerful decks and my casual decks are unable to keep up so now I have a few decks with varying power levels.

Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Moat. I don't have or play it. But what's the point of an eternal singleton format if you're not going to be trying to play the most powerful cards in it.

 

[Toxi]

Moat is okay. The worst aspect about it in Commander (How it almost completely shuts down Red/Black creature-based decks) is more due to R&D's bizarre conviction that Red and Black should never be able to do anything about Enchantments ever. And it's not any worse than Humility in that aspect.

 

[kirblar]

Moat is okay. The worst aspect about it in Commander (How it almost completely shuts down Red/Black creature-based decks) is more due to R&D's bizarre conviction that Red and Black should never be able to do anything about Enchantments ever.

I kinda suspect this one's MaRo and not R&D.

 

[Crocodile]

Were these posted yet?

Why Battle for Zendikar is empirically a weak set

Why Battle for Zendikar Standard is one of the most expensive standards we've seen in years

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Read the bottom one. Terrible. (Not the article, which is great. The current state of Magic.)

 

[WanderingWind]

What's particularly crazy to me is the fact that outside of Gideon Jura, every card on the Cawblade side is eternal playable. Nobody is going to be playing a good chunk of the cards on Jeskai's side after rotation.

 

[Firemind]

I'm literally listening to the moment in the latest episode of Magic TV on CFB where they talk about how people are smart enough right now to recognize that Abzan isn't a great deck compared to Jeskai, it just happened to take the PT.

I wonder what the critical mass of results necessary to stop calling Jeskai Black "clearly the best deck in the format" is, given that megamorph consistently put up better top end results before and Abzan is seemingly doing better right now, with other decks like eldrazi ramp and esper having favorable matchups as well.

Don't get me wrong, the deck is clearly a tier 1 deck and it does powerful things. But it's not good enough to just do powerful things, when the meta has so many other decks doing powerful things that match up favorably against you. Objective power in a vacuum isn't that relevant. I really think this is a case of people wanting to play the newest (relative to the prior standard) tier 1 deck and letting that cloud their judgment.

Not everyone can be like Finkel. Amateur players should just admit they suck at Magic and play Siege Rhinos instead.

Moat is okay. The worst aspect about it in Commander (How it almost completely shuts down Red/Black creature-based decks) is more due to R&D's bizarre conviction that Red and Black should never be able to do anything about Enchantments ever. And it's not any worse than Humility in that aspect.

That's why I play Annarchy. And Karn and reluctantly Ugin.

 

[Hero]

That article about the price isn't bad but it's definitely disingenuous since as he said its all about the fetch lands which were ridiculously cheap for a good portion of the year. The one thing I do agree with is that there is no budget deck like RDW that new players can go to.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I think B/W Allies is the closest thing to budget decks, but it's still slower than RDW.

 

[WanderingWind]

That article about the price isn't bad but it's definitely disingenuous since as he said its all about the fetch lands which were ridiculously cheap for a good portion of the year. The one thing I do agree with is that there is no budget deck like RDW that new players can go to.

Well, to be fair, the article is about standard now. The whole article couldn't have existed when fetchlands were cheaper because this standard environment didn't exist then. You can't factor in prices of cards when they were cheaper when talking fiance, because on a long enough timeline even Moxes were dirt cheap. The article is about the cost of buying into standard right now, and even has a whole section that talks about the increase in price of the fetchlands. It even says almost exactly what you said - "Obviously, if you bought your fetchlands and Jace, Vryn's Prodigys for pennies on the dollar months ago, this doesn't really affect you." Nothing even slightly disingenuous about it at all, tbh.

 

[ElyrionX]

What's particularly crazy to me is the fact that outside of Gideon Jura, every card on the Cawblade side is eternal playable. Nobody is going to be playing a good chunk of the cards on Jeskai's side after rotation.

This is exactly why I quit Standard. Even when decks cost half of what they do now, it was still ridiculously expensive especially given how fast the meta changes.

At least with eternal formats, you can be reasonably assured of your decks holding their value over time.

 

[ElyrionX]

So C15 spoilers start in a couple of hours right? Given how late they're doing this, how likely is it that this set is going to be complete ass?

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

Commander is more or less directly designed for Timmy players. I understand why they wanted to sanction it (to create official Timmy space), but honestly there's a good argument that it was a bad idea because it provided incentives for other people to play it.

Power EDH players are just the worst. Well, second worst. First worst are the guys who tried to make Tiny Leaders a thing. Those guys are literally Pol Pot.

EDH is kind of a crap format in general really. The likelihood of a group you sit down to play with all having the same expectation for what's "fair" is so slim nearly every game ends with 1 or more players feeling like they were beat by their own self restraint/"honor code" rather than another player. There's no real good way around it either, unless you happen to get to play with the same people every single time and you can all come to an agreement on it.

bingocard.jpeg

In all seriousness, you guys should check out the Duel Commander format. Most of the power level cards are banned and the metagame is stable and healthy. Plus most EDH tournaments follow the french rules.

So C15 spoilers start in a couple of hours right? Given how late they're doing this, how likely is it that this set is going to be complete ass?

It was pretty much the same deal with the last set, since there are only 55 cards + reprints, I guess you don't need as much time as regular sets to spoil everything.

 

[noquarter]

I thought when I saw mention of Moat that spoilers were out and was looking to pre order every white deck there is. Then saw that it was just talk of a proxy.

Are any of last year's sets worth picking up? When they announced that they were doing Commander sets every year figured this would happen, I would get burnt out buying them.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I want Madness and Morbid to come back in SoI.

A land with Madness to discard to Magmatic Insight? Kolaghan's Command blowouts?

Super aristocrats with Tragic Slip?

LET'S GO

 

[Firemind]

I thought when I saw mention of Moat that spoilers were out and was looking to pre order every white deck there is. Then saw that it was just talk of a proxy.

Are any of last year's sets worth picking up? When they announced that they were doing Commander sets every year figured this would happen, I would get burnt out buying them.

Daretti is cool. And it has Wurmcoil I believe. The white one has Containment Priest. That's about it. The blue, black and green decks are all terrible.