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[bigkrev]

If they ever go back to Ravnica again they need to be done with the guilds. It was great the first time and still good the 2nd but a 3rd block of the 10 guilds would just be tiring.

Make it so the Guildless actually won or at least became strong enough to make a full fledged mono vs. multicolor theme.

Pretty sure Jace has these guilds on lock, and the mandate of everything WOTC does is "Make Roman Jace look STRONG"

 

[Jhriad]

the expansion symbol being an inverted cross collar-of-Avacyn both suggest that pretty strongly.

If the symbol above is the SOI symbol, it looks a lot more like a demon/bat on the right (head like protrusion on the top left with a bat wing on the top right) facing off against the symbol of Avacyn. Possibly the symbols of the two faiths present in new Innistrad with the hint about 'Faith' a few days ago from Maro.

EDIT: Derp. That's from the Duel Deck.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Pretty sure Jace has these guilds on lock, and the mandate of everything WOTC does is "Make Roman Jace look STRONG"

Jace is in SOI also. Jace everywhere

"Hey guys remember when you assumed Liliana was the face planeswalker in Shadows over Innistrad - nah man more me!"

 

[Firemind]

I'm on the opposite side of this. I actually hate it and kind of hope they never go back. I know that they will, though, given how popular it is, so I'll just have to kind of grin-and-bear it. The only saving grace is that good, powerful cards have come out of both trips there.

If they ever go back to Ravnica again they need to be done with the guilds. It was great the first time and still good the 2nd but a 3rd block of the 10 guilds would just be tiring.

Make it so the Guildless actually won or at least became strong enough to make a full fledged mono vs. multicolor theme.

Do you guys also hate Game of Thrones?

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Pretty sure Jace has these guilds on lock, and the mandate of everything WOTC does is "Make Roman Jace look STRONG"

Does the Guildpact stop the Guildless from revolting?

Jace is in SOI also. Jace everywhere

Well he's not getting an Oath version and can't have standard w/o 2 Jaces at least, the artstyle clashes though. The background is hazy while Jace is photorealistic. The shadows also look off

Do you guys also hate Game of Thrones?

Stopped watching after season 1

 

[SigmasonicX]

Jace is in SOI also. Jace everywhere

If Jace is in SOI, then that's another bit of evidence for him not getting a card in Oath.

And it's pretty funny that he has to put on another coat on top of what must already be a sweaty outfit.

 

[OnPoint]

If SOI is the Liliana set, you had to know Jace was gonna be in it. Come on guys.

Do you guys also hate Game of Thrones?

I read the books. They're ok but they've started to drone. Not enough is really going on, and not with characters I care about.

My big problem with Ravnica is that, as of now, they've done nothing to make me care about it as a setting. Maybe their new emphasis on story will change that. But normally, political intrigue and legislative positioning are not why I care about Magic, so I'll be shocked if they get me there.

 

[Xis]

I mean, just look at her art from AVR


If you just look at the art, you probably think that is a W/B gold card.
She's got some darkness in her.

I always thought it was really weird for a mono-white card to look so goth.

 

[WanderingWind]

Do you guys also hate Game of Thrones?

Right? Disliking the guilds is just crazy talk to me. Love 'em. I secretly want every set to be more tribally. Guilds are my shit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

If SOI is the Liliana set, you had to know Jace was gonna be in it. Come on guys.



I read the books. They're ok but they've started to drone. Not enough is really going on, and not with characters I care about.

My big problem with Ravnica is that, as of now, they've done nothing to make me care about it as a setting. Maybe their new emphasis on story will change that. But normally, political intrigue and legislative positioning are not why I care about Magic, so I'll be shocked if they get me there.

Liliana only has one set she's in and Jace isn't in it. In fact Liliana's not even in the plot as far as we know - Jace going to Innistrad is almost assuredly to follow up on Ugin telling him "go to Innistrad and look for Nahiri," which lends a stupid amount of credence to Avacyn just being Nahiri also.

 

[OnPoint]

Liliana only has one set she's in and Jace isn't in it. In fact Liliana's not even in the plot as far as we know - Jace going to Innistrad is almost assuredly to follow up on Ugin telling him "go to Innistrad and look for Nahiri," which lends a stupid amount of credence to Avacyn just being Nahiri also.

Liliana is almost certainly the face of SOI. It's been discussed to death in this thread alone. And they didn't set up Liliana asking Jace for help pre-BFZ to not follow up on their "romance". He might not be a card in SOI, but I bet he's a card in set two of the block.

 

[WanderingWind]

The Avacyn symbol warping in the video lends equal credence to the whole "Emrakul warping minds on Innistrad" theory, too. One thing we know for sure, Innistrad is properly fucked for this block. They'll make this the depressing sad 2nd act. No way will they tear apart the sunshine and rainbows world only to revert it at the end of a 2 set block story.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

An alternative to killing Jace and changing his ability set would be to have his fake identity ,from when he hid on Ravnica, take over.

Also damn

 

[charlequin]

Edit: Sigil doesn't work with this. But still works well in a 'cares about enchantments' deck.

Why not? Don't they both trigger on casting enchantments?

So, a return to Theros is pretty much a lock now, right?

Out of all the planes since we started actually going to planes:

Mirrodin/NP - returned once, will return again
Kamigawa - closest to definite no we can get
Ravnica - returned once, will return again
Lorwyn - maybe, leaning no
Alara - maybe, pretty much in the middle
Zendikar - returned once, but not sure the vibe is gonna be there
Innistrad - returning
Theros - maybe, leaning yes
Tarkir - definitely returning

 

[Firemind]

If SOI is the Liliana set, you had to know Jace was gonna be in it. Come on guys.



I read the books. They're ok but they've started to drone. Not enough is really going on, and not with characters I care about.

My big problem with Ravnica is that, as of now, they've done nothing to make me care about it as a setting. Maybe their new emphasis on story will change that. But normally, political intrigue and legislative positioning are not why I care about Magic, so I'll be shocked if they get me there.

Well, it's pretty difficult to tell a story through the cards alone. I remember I read the backstory articles of Ravnica, to promote the set, which made me a fan of the setting. The idea of ten guilds making a millennia old pact wherein rules are bent as the guilds are vying for more power and influence is an interesting one.

Now with the new writing structure, I don't have any confidence of a good story though. I just want to see cool multicoloured cards. I love multicolour blocks.

 

[charlequin]

And it's pretty funny that he has to put on another coat on top of what must already be a sweaty outfit.

Someone told him that Innistrad is a plane that really likes collars and he took it a bit too literally.

They'll make this the depressing sad 2nd act.

Good. Innistrad should be miserable.

 

[Jhriad]

Liliana only has one set she's in and Jace isn't in it. In fact Liliana's not even in the plot as far as we know - Jace going to Innistrad is almost assuredly to follow up on Ugin telling him "go to Innistrad and look for Nahiri," which lends a stupid amount of credence to Avacyn just being Nahiri also.

The female face in the reveal picture with Jace is Liliana, I'm guessing. Looking closer you see small birds, probably Ravens circling her face.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Magic: the Gathering - Shadows Over Innistrad |OT| Jace matters (but nothing else does)

Liliana is almost certainly the face of SOI. It's been discussed to death in this thread alone. And they didn't set up Liliana asking Jace for help pre-BFZ to not follow up on their "romance". He might not be a card in SOI, but I bet he's a card in set two of the block.

Literally the only key art and plot clue that has anything to do with Innistrad has Jace and nobody else. So yeah, the thread having considered something likely prior to the set being announced doesn't seem terribly relevant at this point. Now, he might get Liliana to go there (in fact I would imagine its probably true), but the impetus for the story going there so far is just....Jace. Liliana's only business on Innistrad was killing Griselbrand, and Griselbrand's dead.

 

[WanderingWind]

Magic: the Gathering - Shadows Over Innistrad |OT| Jace matters (but nothing else does)

lol

 

[SigmasonicX]

I just realized that with the new Duel Decks, it seems like every one from now on will be a "preview" product, and there won't be planeswalker Duel Decks.

 

[OnPoint]

Well, it's pretty difficult to tell a story through the cards alone. I remember I read the backstory articles of Ravnica, to promote the set, which made me a fan of the setting. The idea of ten guilds making a millennia old pact wherein rules are bent as the guilds are vying for more power and influence is an interesting one.

Now with the new writing structure, I don't have any confidence of a good story though. I just want to see cool multicoloured cards. I love multicolour blocks.

Does nothing for me. Again, I don't care about Magic for politics. If I want that, I'd read something like Game of Thrones.

I feel like the excitement has already passed the plane by (the reason they made the pact in the first place, for example?) and we're in the boring after period where the society is kind of constricted by these Guildpact rules. Literally nothing interesting is happening to draw me in.

I guess that's my big problem with Ravnica -- what's really at stake? What's the threat? Where's the hook? There's no real overall conflict to be excited about. There's no mystery.

Why not? Don't they both trigger on casting enchantments?

It's "cast", not "enters the battlefield". I would imagine that activating Zombie Daxos wouldn't trigger Sigil since you're not "casting" them, no? Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'd LOVE if it worked.

 

[OnPoint]

Literally the only key art and plot clue that has anything to do with Innistrad has Jace and nobody else. So yeah, the thread having considered something likely prior to the set being announced doesn't seem terribly relevant at this point. Now, he might get Liliana to go there (in fact I would imagine its probably true), but the impetus for the story going there so far is just....Jace. Liliana's only business on Innistrad was killing Griselbrand, and Griselbrand's dead.

Think what you want, but this is what I think. Liliana is entirely absent from BFZ so far and, as one of the Origins 'walkers, and given their new push toward those five being the "main characters", I don't think it's outside the realm of reason to think that she's be the face of the next horror set, where she is probably the second most iconic card this side of Snapcaster from the original block. Whatever reason Liliana has to go back can be written into it. Just because you don't know her reasons currently doesn't mean she won't have a reason to end up there. That's on the writers to figure out, and it would be easy enough to get her there. Plus they got all that dumb crap going on with the Raven Man, who definitely could be from Innistrad.

 

[Haines]

Seeing those commander cards just reaffirmed i have no desire to play that format.

 

[charlequin]

It's "cast", not "enters the battlefield". I would imagine that activating Zombie Daxos wouldn't trigger Sigil since you're not "casting" them, no? Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'd LOVE if it worked.

Oh, I wasn't even thinking about it in terms of getting tokens from making guys off Daxos, just about the fact that both cards have the same trigger so they'd go well in a deck together.

Now, he might get Liliana to go there (in fact I would imagine its probably true)

We literally had multiple WotC people tell us point-blank that Liliana was the only one of the Origins Five who isn't in the BFZ story and it's because she's super-important in the block immediately afterwards. You're being kind of ridiculous about this.

 

[Xis]

I guess that's my big problem with Ravnica -- what's really at stake? What's the threat? Where's the hook? There's no real overall conflict to be excited about. There's no mystery.

I'm not super-excited about Return to Return to Ravnica, just because it's well-trod by now.

But! I have to disagree with your sentiment most strongly; I'm tired of 'world-shattering' events; having a set where it's just a bunch of guys who don't like each other is pretty appealing. A grand over-arching plot is much less interesting than a bunch of interesting characters / factions.

 

[red13th]

ugh Jace in Innistrad. I hate Jace.

 

[WanderingWind]

But! I have to disagree with your sentiment most strongly; I'm tired of 'world-shattering' events; having a set where it's just a bunch of guys who don't like each other is pretty appealing.

Word. We've just had back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back "the world is ending" blocks. And Innistrad is going to be more of the same.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I'm not super-excited about Return to Return to Ravnica, just because it's well-trod by now.

But! I have to disagree with your sentiment most strongly; I'm tired of 'world-shattering' events; having a set where it's just a bunch of guys who don't like each other is pretty appealing.

But if it's the same status quo again nothing will change, the same guilds will try to wrestle control from the same guilds, been there done that.

We don't need world shattering events each set but just some shit happens isn't enough either.

 

[OnPoint]

I'm not super-excited about Return to Return to Ravnica, just because it's well-trod by now.

But! I have to disagree with your sentiment most strongly; I'm tired of 'world-shattering' events; having a set where it's just a bunch of guys who don't like each other is pretty appealing. A grand over-arching plot is much less interesting than a bunch of interesting characters / factions.

So basically Khans minus the Sarkhan stuff? That's where we differ. The Sarkhan plot is there to give you a reason to care. To draw you into the world. That's what Ravnica is missing. Nothing draws you in as an individual to care. It's bad fiction.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Oh, I wasn't even thinking about it in terms of getting tokens from making guys off Daxos, just about the fact that both cards have the same trigger so they'd go well in a deck together.



We literally had multiple WotC people tell us point-blank that Liliana was the only one of the Origins Five who isn't in the BFZ story and it's because she's super-important in the block immediately afterwards. You're being kind of ridiculous about this.

How am I being "ridiculous about this?" I just said she likely is/could be in the block, but there's one piece of key art for this block and one story thread going to this thread and its Jace. It's a completely logical conclusion that the story focuses on Jace, whether or not Liliana happens to be there.

 

[OnPoint]

How am I being "ridiculous about this?" I just said she likely is in the block, but there's one piece of key art and one story thread going there and its Jace.

You're dismissing the fact that she's basically confirmed by Wizards. That's how.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You're dismissing the fact that she's basically confirmed by Wizards. That's how.

Except that isn't what I said at all. I'm talking about the person who is on all the packaging as the key focus of the plot, the way Gideon is on Zendikar, Sarkhan was on Tarkir and Elspeth was on Theros.

How do you figure she is basically confirmed by Wizards as the face planeswalker of SOI? Because if we're just worried about who's gonna show up, its almost certain Liliana is going to be there.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Magic: the Gathering - Shadows Over Innistrad |OT| Jace matters (but nothing else does)



Literally the only key art and plot clue that has anything to do with Innistrad has Jace and nobody else. So yeah, the thread having considered something likely prior to the set being announced doesn't seem terribly relevant at this point. Now, he might get Liliana to go there (in fact I would imagine its probably true), but the impetus for the story going there so far is just....Jace. Liliana's only business on Innistrad was killing Griselbrand, and Griselbrand's dead.

Isn't Jace tracking Sorin tracking Nahiri?

 

[Firemind]

So basically Khans minus the Sarkhan stuff? That's where we differ. The Sarkhan plot is there to give you a reason to care. To draw you into the world. That's what Ravnica is missing. Nothing draws you in as an individual to care. It's bad fiction.

I didn't care for Ugin, the Dragonlords or Sarkhan when he became Jesus reincarnated. The only character I had any sympathy for was Zurgo. The dragons were such a disappointment.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";183891770]Isn't Jace tracking Sorin tracking Nahiri?[/QUOTE]

Jace is supposedly tracking both of them on Ugin's instruction, and Ugin specifically mentioned Innistrad.

 

[kirblar]

I just realized that with the new Duel Decks, it seems like every one from now on will be a "preview" product, and there won't be planeswalker Duel Decks.

I had assumed the opposite, but they might be worried about crashing PW prices.

 

[y2dvd]

What will the community reaction be if they reprint Snapcaster or Liliana for Shadows?

 

[Angry Grimace]

What will the community reaction be if they reprint Snapcaster or Liliana for Shadows?

Is there even a precedent for reprinting a card like that? The closest I can even think of is reprinting the allied Fetchlands in KTK.

 

[Xis]

So basically Khans minus the Sarkhan stuff? That's where we differ. The Sarkhan plot is there to give you a reason to care. To draw you into the world. That's what Ravnica is missing. Nothing draws you in as an individual to care. It's bad fiction.

I ... don't care a lot about the fiction. To clarify - to me, the setting (the world, the creatures, the characters) are important; the plot isn't. The cards can tell a million possible stories; an official plot is unnecessary.

(Disclaimer: I did kind of like the Theros block story).

 

[WanderingWind]

What will the community reaction be if they reprint Snapcaster or Liliana for Shadows?

"Neat!"

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

They could reprint them but less rare and special expedition style, legal in limited but not in standard.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I ... don't care a lot about the fiction. To clarify - to me, the setting (the world, the creatures, the characters) are important; the plot isn't. The cards can tell a million possible stories; an official plot is unnecessary.

(Disclaimer: I did kind of like the Theros block story).

There is in fact a plot on Return to Ravnica, its just more "Jace is brooding chick magnet" shit, which has no real relevance to the overarching lore other than explaining why Jace is PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED RAVNICA and I guess sort of why Gideon was around to talk to him.

Last I recall it was sort of a retcon of the plot of Ravnica: City of Guilds block though, because I think the guilds were dissolved in Dissension, right?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

There's hardly any plot in RTR or GTC. Most of the plot is all in DGM, and it's shite.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There's hardly any plot in RTR or GTC. Most of the plot is all in DGM, and it's shite.

Yeah, I think the first two are like "here's some guilds," and then Dragon's Maze's plot is "Each guild sends one maze runner to solve the maze and win power for their guild" Then Jace wins the contest despite not technically being in the race or any of the guilds.

CENAJACE
WINS
LOL

But as for LOTV and Snapcaster chat, I don't think they'd reprint Snapcaster for the simple reason that I'm skeptical Flashback is going to be in the set. Bringing back DFCs and the Gothic Horror world is one thing, but bringing back a full on mechanic that ties up a ton of the design space. It just feels like previous Return blocks really only reused the world and like one central theme from the original block (artifacts, guilds, lands/eldrazi) I would think DFCs are the most iconic thing about Innistrad.

 

[kirblar]

Next time they do Ravnica, holy fuck do they need to drop the idea that people don't know about Dimir- was incredibly obnoxious when they didn't actually try to adjust it to being "publicly X, secretly Y" and instead tried to pretend nothing happened.

 

[Firemind]

Next time they do Ravnica, holy fuck do they need to drop the idea that people don't know about Dimir- was incredibly obnoxious when they didn't actually try to adjust it to being "publicly X, secretly Y" and instead tried to pretend nothing happened.

Why is it obnoxious to have a secret underground guild? It's not like everyone in Ravnica is tagged or something. :lol

 

[Angry Grimace]

Next time they do Ravnica, holy fuck do they need to drop the idea that people don't know about Dimir- was incredibly obnoxious when they didn't actually try to adjust it to being "publicly X, secretly Y" and instead tried to pretend nothing happened.

How do you even do Ravnica? Double large set? RTR block split the guilds into 2 large sets and RAV block split the guilds among the big set and 2 small sets. Even with Large/Medium, it seems a little hard to squeeze 10 full guilds in there.

 

[kirblar]

Why is it obnoxious to have a secret underground guild? It's not like everyone in Ravnica is tagged or something. :lol

Because they got brought out into the open in Rav1. It's fine for Dimir to have a massive underground part. Just give them something public facing at this point.

How do you even do Ravnica? Double large set? RTR block split the guilds into 2 large sets and RAV block split the guilds among the big set and 2 small sets. Even with Large/Medium, it seems a little hard to squeeze 10 full guilds in there.

Large/Large for sure.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Next time they do Ravnica, holy fuck do they need to drop the idea that people don't know about Dimir- was incredibly obnoxious when they didn't actually try to adjust it to being "publicly X, secretly Y" and instead tried to pretend nothing happened.

They had a bit of that in flavor text.

 

[bigkrev]

A strictly better clone!