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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
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charlequin
Banned
Not even close.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
So the other UG Commander is a compleated Ezuri:
What are the odds he proliferates?
What are the odds he proliferates?
Sure, whatever. Niggling details with subject-verb agreement shouldn't be a super motivating factor when we've been getting along with a plural second person singular for like three hundred years.
SigmasonicX
Member
Zada, Hedron Grinder, is a female goblin. Some non-legendary goblins, like the intro pack art for Ankle Shanker (who actually is a named character in the story, but I digress), are also meant to be female. There were also a bunch of non-legendary female orcs in Tarkir.
And the goblin leaders in Lorwyn were all "aunties".
Etrian Oddity
Member
Meren's deck looks like fun, I'm a sucker for G/B.
C/P from Reddit on the SCG Scalebacks: https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/3r9dbq/star_city_games_organized_play_changes/cwmazr9
tldr: Moving to a GP-style format hurt SCG.
tldr: Moving to a GP-style format hurt SCG.
divisionbyzorro
Member
Anecdotally (and yes, I realize that anecdotes != data), I'm aware of far more people who are watching less SCG than they used to, because Standard is far less interesting to spectate than Legacy. I realize that the raw numbers on Twitch might be higher, but how many $$ do those numbers actually translate to?
Did you notice they rolled back that shitstain system where the top player Q'd from Q1/2/3/4 totals? I can't believe they thought people would care about that shit. (Wizards only does it so they have something to talk about.)
People don't get invested in individual pros in games w/ variance. (Not to the degree of other games, at least.)
No, we've got plenty of lady goblins.
Hell, one of the main characters of the original Ravnica books, Crixizix, was a female Izzet Goblin.
I am so excited for the new Commander stuff. But Ezuri... nooooooooo
Woah woah. Calm down, cowboy. I didn't say it was necessary. I just said it was technically correct.
Could swear I was taught not to do that in my writing classes, but it's been a long time, so, whatever works I guess.
Woah woah. Calm down, cowboy. I didn't say it was necessary. I just said it was technically correct.
Could swear I was taught not to do that in my writing classes, but it's been a long time, so, whatever works I guess.
GamerKingFaiz
Member
Legacy question regarding playing against Miracles. Is it better to counter their Top or their Counterbalance?
It seems like Counterbalance is the obvious answer, but Top is what lets them smooth their draws.
What do you guys think?
It seems like Counterbalance is the obvious answer, but Top is what lets them smooth their draws.
What do you guys think?
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
idk only ever watched Cheon play it but won't top let them find a counterbalance faster?
And aren't you at their mercy anyway in the way you have to counter either if possible so it depends on which they cast first?
And aren't you at their mercy anyway in the way you have to counter either if possible so it depends on which they cast first?
Top, almost always. Counterbalance they have to waste Brainstorms to reliably flip and you can bait the trigger with weaker spells of same converted mana cost. Top allows them deck manipulation combined with fetches and effective card draw is just stupid.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I find it odd that a card selling company would slowly stop supporting a format where they can't reliably get new inventory enough to offset costs of renting venues. I found it funny that the article above states he doesn't believe SCG is keeping Legacy alive, yet everybody is basically saying "GG Legacy no re." The actual format will never die out completely because that's now how formats work, but for all intents and purposes it is dying a slow death. It's just unsustainable and everybody involved knows it.
It's sad though. Legacy is super fun to watch and even more fun to play. You know, just not for the price of entry.
It's sad though. Legacy is super fun to watch and even more fun to play. You know, just not for the price of entry.
Is there a situation where WotC could get out of the Reserved List? There's no one in their right mind that thinks it's a good thing for the game; it seems dumb everyone involved is just going to let something they love die. I guess they could ban every single card on it from vintage and legacy, then do functional reprints of all them that aren't standard or modern legal, but that seems like the nuclear option.
Edit: Also, random aside- just realize the master/blade combo I posted won't work- the masters have to attack a player and not get blocked, not deal combat damage to a player. Since the copied masters won't have technically attacked, the effect won't trigger right?
Edit: Also, random aside- just realize the master/blade combo I posted won't work- the masters have to attack a player and not get blocked, not deal combat damage to a player. Since the copied masters won't have technically attacked, the effect won't trigger right?
No. The ability triggers at the beginning of the declare blockers step if they're unblocked; they don't need to be declared as attackers.
"Whenever ~ attacks and isn't blocked" is a different trigger condition that "Whenever ~ attacks," the former actually only cares about being blocked, where as the latter only cares about being declared an attacker.
SigmasonicX
Member
Just a common theory.
You were. Rules follow usage, not vice versa, it's become normal.
MaRo's stridency in his blog FAQ about how not only will they never get rid of the Reserved List but they'll never talk about why they'll never get rid of the Reserved List strongly suggests to me that there's some legal settlement or commitment that would make it very difficult to get out of it.
Obviously WotC would love to reprint a bunch of cards from it -- part of WotC's whole RL gacha model is picking out cards with high secondary-market cost to put into new sets in order to create immediate booster expected value. So you have to assume there's a pretty strong incentive on the other side from somewhere. Presumably it's not Legacy players, since their format is dying out without Legacy cards. It's probably not the secondary market because WotC doesn't really have any reason to give a shit about what the secondary market actors think (and WotC's existing reprint strategy already basically sucks for them, so clearly they don't pull a lot of weight). But it's somebody!
"God's Beard!"
Member
Deck I've been messing with lately:
Grixis Dragons
Grixis Dragons
charlequin
Banned
It's come out at this point that the usage of the foil loophole in 2010 was intended to be the first foot in the door towards a complete elimination of the Reserved List. The "reaction" to that (and any WotC employee who will even discuss it this far purposely uses weasel words like this, since we know that publicly the vast majority of players and the largest dealers of singles are all opposed to the list) led to a crackdown that not only eliminated the loophole, but also forced them to go beyond the written text in how strongly they avoid printing duplicates. The commentary at that point made it clear that the official stance at the moment is that mitigations of the list aren't even open for discussion.
The WotC R&D people claim every time it comes up that this isn't an edict passed down by Hasbro, but I have yet to see anyone anywhere offer an even slightly plausible scenario leading to the current situation besides the one where Hasbro lawyers flipped out at someone's threat to sue them over promisory estoppel.
razza frazza
Much as their insistence that it's not Hasbro does absolutely nothing to make me think it's not Hasbro, their claims that a meaningful demographic exists that supports the Reserved List do not convince me in any way that there is actually such a demographic.
The problem with the theory that it's purely Hasbro being overprotective is twofold: 1) there's no reason to enforce confidentiality if the concern is about a potential lawsuit, and b) the Reserved List was created in 1996, and Hasbro didn't buy WotC until 1999.
Like I said, I think legal issues are involved, but I think this behavior suggests a lawsuit that actually happened rather than a lawsuit they're worried about happening in the future.
charlequin
Banned
I don't think there's basically any possible way that a lawsuit of serious scope (and enough plausibility to actually produce action on WotC's side) was threatened without anyone currently being aware of it.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
It never stops surprising me the lines people sometimes take against unknown decks that lead with Scalding Tarn, or even decks they definitively know to be Splinter Twin. Don't tap out if I have 5 cards in hand and nothing but 3 red/blue mana on the board - if you have basically any mana up that threatens removal or countermagic I'm not going for the combo unless I happen to have enough mana for Splinter Twin plus a Dispel or Remand. I sometimes wonder how many people who hate Twin and want it banned hate it because they don't play around the combo at all.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Isn't a quick death preferable to a slow and agonizing one?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Almost assuredly real given its the full art of something we only saw part of today.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Meh, nice with token generators I guess
does nicely with if you can protect it
does nicely with if you can protect it
goes infinite with sage of hours
as someone who enjoys commander for goofy interactions and semi-casual play with friends i like it. it's kinda like edric but tossing in token generator insanity for funsies. obvs not insanely competitive but this is the first commander that's been spoiled i'm interested in.
as someone who enjoys commander for goofy interactions and semi-casual play with friends i like it. it's kinda like edric but tossing in token generator insanity for funsies. obvs not insanely competitive but this is the first commander that's been spoiled i'm interested in.
Is it me or does it seem like that the experience counters mechanic can get out of hand very fast if they print more cards with it. So far it seems like only the legendary commander creatures get them which is fine. But it would seem like it really does not need much critical mass before things start getting obscene.
manipulate
Member
doubling season spike incoming
This is my current modern deck, it's under $300 and competitive: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/03-11-15-uw-control-titan/
The only decent deck I can think of under $100 would probably be a mono red or RW burn deck. Creatures to look at: Monastery Swiftspear, Keldon Marauders, Hellspark Elemental. Spells: Lightning Bolt, Boros Charm, Rift Bolt, Lava Spike, Lightning Helix, Skullcrack, Shard Volley. This is a pretty good baseline, you can fill it out with stuff like Goblin Guide, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Atarka's Command, and fetch lands later.
Zada was a female goblin too
divisionbyzorro
Member
This rant over on the Hearthstone subreddit, as well as the following conversation pieces, are fascinating to me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3razmo/trolden_my_current_thoughts_on_hearthstone/
I wonder if people felt similarly about Magic during its early years, before expectations were set and you knew what you were getting into before you started.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/3razmo/trolden_my_current_thoughts_on_hearthstone/
I wonder if people felt similarly about Magic during its early years, before expectations were set and you knew what you were getting into before you started.
That irrational guy that showed up in the thread when Day's Undoing was revealed would point to there being at least some small number of folks that fall in that demographic.
Legacy is dead, sell ur duals guys.
Fuck brainstorm, i guess i'll live with the sweet memory of playing TnT Survival.
Also, they printed a Plant Centaur that looks insane. 4 cmc, 1/1 that get a +1+1 counter for each land in the graveyards and is recurrable from grave at GG. And trample.
Fuck brainstorm, i guess i'll live with the sweet memory of playing TnT Survival.
Also, they printed a Plant Centaur that looks insane. 4 cmc, 1/1 that get a +1+1 counter for each land in the graveyards and is recurrable from grave at GG. And trample.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Well you couldn't patch magic and dunno how long it took for bans
From that HS thread:
Uh, I don't have to imagine. DotA's major balance patches come with about the same frequency as HS' major content releases twice a year, maybe one or two more. Icefrog's approach is frequently cited as one of the stronger aspects of the game. Sure, people aren't the biggest fans of it when a poor meta is reached as the ultimate endgame of any patch, but, for the most part, letting a meta develop and solve its own problems is considered to be a strength of the game- a part of its quality, not something at odds with it as this post makes it seem like.
The problem with HS is that it's just a fundamentally poor game that's clocking Magic online due to being a far better user experience. No manabase development, aggro decks don't have to mitigate mana flood/control decks don't have to mitigate mana drought in construction, lack of instant speed interaction kills so much of what games like magic offer, combo decks feel unreasonable without instant speed interaction, on board initiative is so strong that there's less room for deck variety in lines of play- dropping an onboard threat needs to happen every other turn at worst in HS, ( outside of freeze mage, I guess) and, yes, RNG is way too prevalent. A little bit of RNG is good for keeping a game varied and rewarding player adaptability/consistency in deckbuilding; Hearthstone's level of RNG influence goes well beyond that.
Don't get me wrong- I don't think Magic is perfect by any means. I still don't like how huge an effect rng has on wins/losses due to the mana system, but I'll take Magic's resource system over HS' any day.
Uh, I don't have to imagine. DotA's major balance patches come with about the same frequency as HS' major content releases twice a year, maybe one or two more. Icefrog's approach is frequently cited as one of the stronger aspects of the game. Sure, people aren't the biggest fans of it when a poor meta is reached as the ultimate endgame of any patch, but, for the most part, letting a meta develop and solve its own problems is considered to be a strength of the game- a part of its quality, not something at odds with it as this post makes it seem like.
The problem with HS is that it's just a fundamentally poor game that's clocking Magic online due to being a far better user experience. No manabase development, aggro decks don't have to mitigate mana flood/control decks don't have to mitigate mana drought in construction, lack of instant speed interaction kills so much of what games like magic offer, combo decks feel unreasonable without instant speed interaction, on board initiative is so strong that there's less room for deck variety in lines of play- dropping an onboard threat needs to happen every other turn at worst in HS, ( outside of freeze mage, I guess) and, yes, RNG is way too prevalent. A little bit of RNG is good for keeping a game varied and rewarding player adaptability/consistency in deckbuilding; Hearthstone's level of RNG influence goes well beyond that.
Don't get me wrong- I don't think Magic is perfect by any means. I still don't like how huge an effect rng has on wins/losses due to the mana system, but I'll take Magic's resource system over HS' any day.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I'm gonna surmise here that DoTA has more depth to it than Hearthstone, that it's not dueling and that you're not locked into your choice before you know your opponent.
How can the meta regulate itself if making hatedecks makes your deck awful against non FoTM decks.
Anyway
Plant could quite possibly be one of my most hated types. What are treefolk now, either you're a creature of flesh and blood or you're a plant in the form of a creature not both and for heaven's sake what's a plant elemental supposed to be. Plant is like making fire a type. Phoenix' should be type bird fire half of the blue elementals elemental clouds etc.
Almost as bad as having Stags be Elks and don't get me started on merfolk human...
How can the meta regulate itself if making hatedecks makes your deck awful against non FoTM decks.
Anyway
Plant could quite possibly be one of my most hated types. What are treefolk now, either you're a creature of flesh and blood or you're a plant in the form of a creature not both and for heaven's sake what's a plant elemental supposed to be. Plant is like making fire a type. Phoenix' should be type bird fire half of the blue elementals elemental clouds etc.
Almost as bad as having Stags be Elks and don't get me started on merfolk human...
The game as a whole is thriving. The specific formats of the game that are impacted by the reserved list/ would be impacted by such a change are clearly dying/dead.
Wizards solution to the reserve list is Modern. They'll kill off/have already killed off the older formats because they know they're unsustainable with the combination of the reserve list and a growing playerbase. Sure, they'll throw a token gesture every so often- GP Seattle is coming up soon, after all- but neither Vintage nor Legacy will ever see substantial tourney support. Heck, I live in Seattle and won't be attending the GP; I can't justify buying a $1500 - $2000 for one tourney a year or so.
Hatedecks should never be the goal for dealing with problematic decks. The support should be there for other quality decks that stand alone on their own merits, and happen to interact in a way that exposes the lines of play of the FotM deck/is more resilient to the FotM's means of interaction. (See: token decks composed of quality cards or the eldrazi ramp decks that have risen to challenge Jeskai Black- these aren't Jeskai Black hatedecks; they're just good decks that expose certain aspects of the Jeskai deck- namely its reliance on plentiful spot removal) Hearthstone has less lines of interaction than Magic in general, though, so that type of development is going to naturally be a lot harder to foster. Hearthstone also lacks a sideboard for allowing you to deal with random one off strategies, so all in gimmick decks can punish players who aren't willing to commit maindeck tools for dealing with those specific decks.
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