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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
Can't believe we still don't have a red walker making a ball lightning as one of his abilities.

Also curious when we'll finally get Walkers with ETB abilities. Liliana comes closest to it with the Zombie when she flips and it opens up much more synergistic design space.

Firemind said:
ball lightning or lightning bolt? cause there's ral zarek

ball lightning would be pretty dope

Tibalt, the Homicidal RRR
0: Put a 0/1 Kobold creature onto the battlefield.
-3: Put a 6/1 Elemental creature with trample and haste onto the battlefield. It has: "At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice it."
-3: You get an emblem with "Kobold creatures you control have: Sacrifice this creature: it deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
3
Click to expand...

ball lightning, would also settle for spark elemental as the + ability.

I'm not sold on walkers unable to ramp up their loyalty count. I'd give him a "0: Sacrifice any number of creatures, for each creature sacrificed put a loyalty counter on Tibalt, the Homicidal" ability.
 
F

Firemind

Member
ball lightning or lightning bolt? cause there's ral zarek

ball lightning would be pretty dope

Tibalt, the Homicidal RRR
0: Put a 0/1 Kobold creature onto the battlefield.
-3: Put a 6/1 Elemental creature with trample and haste onto the battlefield. It has: "At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice it."
-3: You get an emblem with "Kobold creatures you control have: Sacrifice this creature: it deals 3 damage to target creature or player."
3
 
K

kirblar

Member
Tamiyo and Tibalt are going to get cards in SoI because both are liked characters without a better place to do them. Emrakul on the moon a la Soul Eater is a good guess and would be a cute way of making Tamiyo relevant.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
kirblar said:
Tamiyo and Tibalt are going to get cards in SoI because both are liked characters without a better place to do them. Emrakul on the moon a la Soul Eater is a good guess and would be a cute way of making Tamiyo relevant.
Click to expand...

Tibalt almost certainly getting a card given how often he's brought up on Blogatog. Tamiyo is brought up not quite as much. I could see the logic in your reasoning for sure, with the whole moon thing, but I still think it's more likely Jace gets the blue card there. They could always do a Jace in SoI and a Tamiyo in set two, though. Theros block had two RG walkers, so two of one color wouldn't be outside of the realm of reason. Still, not long to know -- if he's not in OGW, he's almost certainly in SoI.
 
Y

Yeef

Member
I think we'll see these planeswalkers in Shadows block:
  • Jace
  • Liliana
  • Tibalt
  • Werewolf Walker (new character)
That leaves room for one more walker and likely a white one. I could see them doing a WU Tamiyo. Even though Jace is tracking down Sorin and Nahiri, I don't think either will appear in this block. I think Jace will just find clues to their whereabouts and get sidetracked into helping out Innistrad/Liliana with everything that's going on.

Either Tibalt or Liliana will likely be the face of the second set. The latter more likely than the former.

I can't see them having 3 Jace cards legal in standard at once, and I can't see them not having a planeswalker card for Jace in Innistrad when he's the face of the set. I also don't think there's anything in the story to even suggest that Jace and Chandra get along. I'd be surprised if we got a Jace + Chandra card in Oath.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Here, I got bored. And I really like Tibalt.

Tibalt, Gleeful Punisher 1BR
Planeswalker - Tibalt
+1: Each player discards a card. For each card discarded this way, Tibalt deals one damage to each player.
-3: You get an emblem with "Players can't gain life."
-8: Exile all permanents, cards in hand, and cards in graveyards. Each player's life total becomes 1.
(3)
 
Y

Yeef

Member
divisionbyzorro said:
Here, I got bored. And I really like Tibalt.

Tibalt, Gleeful Punisher 1BR
Planeswalker - Tibalt
+1: Each player discards a card. For each card discarded this way, Tibalt deals one damage to each player.
-3: You get an emblem with "Players can't gain life."
-8: Exile all permanents, cards in hand, and cards in graveyards. Each player's life total becomes 1.
(3)
Click to expand...
Seems like a slower Sulfuric Vortex. Making the -3 an emblem that doesn't stack seems weird. I think something like "-3: Tibalt deals 2 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller" works a little better.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
charlequin said:
Well, let me put it this way: a planeswalker card with two characters on it is pretty much 100% happening at some point, because it's planeswalker space and planeswalker space is too valuable not to use.

Given that... is there any particular reason it wouldn't be in this upcoming set? What would be sufficient evidence that it's going to happen?

Basically: this thing isn't guaranteed by any stretch, but the 2HG thing has got to be in reference to something in the set and I don't think it's just "Ulamog and Kozilek both show up!"
Click to expand...
Because it's clunky and awkward and doesn't serve any purpose you can't do with one guy who has both of the cards colors?

It's a bit like saying a sixth color will exist at some point therefore the new Jace card will be purple.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
Yeef said:
Seems like a slower Sulfuric Vortex. Making the -3 an emblem that doesn't stack seems weird. I think something like "-3: Tibalt deals 2 damage to target creature and 2 damage to that creature's controller" works a little better.
Click to expand...

I thought about making the +1 be "Tibalt deals 2 damage to each player. Players can't gain life until your next main phase." Or something like that; it's just awkward because what I'd really like is for it to stay active until you choose something else with Tibalt, but I can't cleanly word it that way.

I also kinda didn't think that Modern burn needed something as fast as Sulphuric Vortex. :p

Angry Grimace said:
Because it's clunky and awkward and doesn't serve any purpose you can't do with one guy who has both of the cards colors?

It's a bit like saying a sixth color will exist at some point therefore the new Jace card will be purple.
Click to expand...

It's cool, and it's something new you can do with a planeswalker. Considering that planeswalkers are really hard to do, I guarantee it happens at some point.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
divisionbyzorro said:
I thought about making the +1 be "Tibalt deals 2 damage to each player. Players can't gain life until your next main phase." Or something like that; it's just awkward because what I'd really like is for it to stay active until you choose something else with Tibalt, but I can't cleanly word it that way.

I also kinda didn't think that Modern burn needed something as fast as Sulphuric Vortex. :p

It's cool, and it's something new you can do with a planeswalker. Considering that planeswalkers are really hard to do, I guarantee it happens at some point.
Click to expand...

"Tibalt deals 2 to each player and you get an emblem with "Players can't gain life and remove this emblem from the game at the beginning of your next precombat mainphase.""

The design space for Walkers is so unexplored still that'd just be jumping the gun imo.
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
An-Det said:
I like the bit about focusing more on gps near pro tours, working on creating the narrative, but the rest just comes off as spin on budget cuts forcing them to not cover everything. I'm curious to see how they will adapt the coverage to the "one weekend" style.
Click to expand...

CFB and SCG will still cover their GPs, right?
 
U

ultron87

Member
Tibalt, Hell's Herald 3BR
+1 - Return up to one target creature card in a graveyard to the battlefield under your control. It gains haste. Exile it at the beginning of next end step.
-2 - Tibalt deals 3 damage to target creature. If a creature dealt damage this way would die this turn, exile it instead.
-8 - Each player exiles all creature cards from his or her graveyard, then sacrifices all creatures he or she controls. Put all creatures exiled by Tibalt onto the battlefield under your control. Those creatures gain haste.

(4)

I guess I'm seeing being exiled by Tibalt as being in his own personal corner of hell. So that's why he can bring the creatures back from there. That's probably not how devils work in the fiction.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
I still want to see this. Gimme a planeswalker that wants to make a deal with you. Play up that whole selling your soul to the devil idea.

dR9WikK.png
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
Because it's clunky and awkward and doesn't serve any purpose you can't do with one guy who has both of the cards colors?
Click to expand...

Didn't answer my question at all!

They are going to print (at least) one of these, unquestionably, the only question is just where it falls in their big list of planeswalker gimmicks. If your argument is "because it's a bad idea" it doesn't really tell us anything because if they're going to do it eventually it doesn't really matter if you think it's a bad idea. It's only really relevant to this question if there's some reason they'd be less likely to do this gimmick now.

Firemind said:
"We don't need more publicity."
Click to expand...

I think more like "when we stream two GPs on the same weekend 90% of people all tune in to just one of them anyway."
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
charlequin said:
Didn't answer my question at all!

They are going to print (at least) one of these, unquestionably, the only question is just where it falls in their big list of planeswalker gimmicks. If your argument is "because it's a bad idea" it doesn't really tell us anything because if they're going to do it eventually it doesn't really matter if you think it's a bad idea. It's only really relevant to this question if there's some reason they'd be less likely to do this gimmick now.



I think more like "when we stream two GPs on the same weekend 90% of people all tune in to just one of them anyway."
Click to expand...

Well yeah, you're asking me to disprove an incomplete hypothetical future event, there is no "answer" to it. What do you want me to do, travel to the future end of Magic and review every card? And no, I don't think there's actually any reason one of these is going to exist. That's not to say they couldn't design it, but I hardly see it as some kind of untapped resource that is inevitable and nothing in particular screams "THIS IS HAPPENING IN OATH!" beyond the completely vague and meaningless statement that 2 Headed Giant is a focus for the prerelease even though this hypothetical combo card doesn't inherently do anything for 2 Headed Giant.
 
F

Firemind

Member
No regionals
No nationals
WMCQs where you have to travel thousands of miles
More Modern GPs where decks are prohibitely expensive.
More Standard GPs where decks are prohibitely expensive.

Guess there is no more room for casuals with families huh?
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Magic is not the game for casuals with families lol

There's a ton of local tournaments in my area though.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
I have the most fun playing at the kitchen table with my friends.

But I always have that small dream of playing tournament Magic.

I just don't have the drive to spend the cash anymore.

Basically, their changes don't affect me at all.
 
B

bigkrev

Member
Firemind said:
No regionals
No nationals
WMCQs where you have to travel thousands of miles
More Modern GPs where decks are prohibitely expensive.
More Standard GPs where decks are prohibitely expensive.

Guess there is no more room for casuals with families huh?
Click to expand...

There are a ton more tournaments for people now with TCGPlayer, SCG and others running series, more GPs, and PPTQs happening on store levels.

It's actually really awesome.
 
U

ultron87

Member
Playing proxy Legacy with friends is very fun. I'm slowly building up a box of the top decks to run into each other.

And yeah, there are more competitive local tournaments now than I remember a few years ago, with PPTQs and whatnot.
 
A

Angry Grimace

Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
OnPoint said:
I have the most fun playing at the kitchen table with my friends.

But I always have that small dream of playing tournament Magic.

I just don't have the drive to spend the cash anymore.

Basically, their changes don't affect me at all.
Click to expand...

My biggest problem with really competitive magic is that I start finding it stressful instead of fun and most of the really serious players are goobers of the highest order. My biggest weakness as a player is an inability to analyse really complicated board states and being stressed out and potentially having others watch me punt makes it a lot worse.
 
F

Firemind

Member
bigkrev said:
There are a ton more tournaments for people now with TCGPlayer, SCG and others running series, more GPs, and PPTQs happening on store levels.

It's actually really awesome.
Click to expand...
PPTQs are usually Standard and Modern. Never mind that traveling is a hassle once you do qualify and they're more often than not a different format. At least GPs have side events. They said there are going to be more GPs, but I'm not really noticing a spike in Europe. There's also no SCG-like over here. FNM is meh. Guess it's kitchen table and MTGO for me. :<
 
O

OnPoint

Member
Angry Grimace said:
My biggest problem with really competitive magic is that I start finding it stressful instead of fun and most of the really serious players are goobers of the highest order. My biggest weakness as a player is an inability to analyse really complicated board states and being stressed out and potentially having others watch me punt makes it a lot worse.
Click to expand...

Even playing small events at local stores, I have an issue with the people. Some are cool, and some are really hard to be around. Either because they have no social grace, smell bad, are simply bad people, or all of the above. I find with other activities I do with other people -- martial arts, hockey, even the local game development scene -- there is a lot less of this. It makes me want to come around less.
 
L

LaserBuddha

Member
I don't know anything about Modern but I want to try it, because Standard is shit right now and just as expensive.

I don't want a cookie-cutter tier 1 deck, but I still want something that has a shot at an upset on a good day.

Should I play this Zada deck?

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-latest-and-greatest-in-bad-combos/

Creature (25)
4x Birds of Paradise
2x Elvish Mystic
4x Ink-Treader Nephilim
1x Laboratory Maniac
4x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
4x Sylvan Caryatid
4x Zada, Hedron Grinder

Sorcery (3)
1x Grapeshot
2x Irresistible Prey
Instant (19)
3x Aphotic Wisps
4x Cerulean Wisps
4x Crimson Wisps
4x Triton Tactics
4x Viridescent Wisps

Land (13)
4x Forbidden Orchard
4x Gemstone Mine
2x Mana Confluence
3x Reflecting Pool

Sideboard (15)
1x Empty the Warrens
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Goblin Bushwhacker
2x Grand Abolisher
1x Irresistible Prey
2x Pact of Negation
2x Vines of Vastwood
2x Zhur-Taa Druid
Click to expand...
 
D

divisionbyzorro

Member
LaserBuddha said:
I don't want a cookie-cutter tier 1 deck, but I still want something that has a shot at an upset on a good day.
Click to expand...

Modern is chock-full of quality tier 2 decks...no offense, but that doesn't really look like one of them. :)

If you want a weird combo deck, you could try Jeskai Ascendancy:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...ng-competitive-modern/573634-ascendancy-storm

If you want to go weirder still, Bubble Hulk might be up your alley.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/649266-bubble-hulk

Even stranger? Puresteel Cheerios.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...creation-modern/221736-modern-cheeri0s-reboot
 
L

LaserBuddha

Member
divisionbyzorro said:
Modern is chock-full of quality tier 2 decks...no offense, but that doesn't really look like one of them. :)

If you want a weird combo deck, you could try Jeskai Ascendancy:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...ng-competitive-modern/573634-ascendancy-storm

If you want to go weirder still, Bubble Hulk might be up your alley.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/649266-bubble-hulk

Even stranger? Puresteel Cheerios.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/...creation-modern/221736-modern-cheeri0s-reboot
Click to expand...
Thanks!
 
I

ironmang

Member
Santiako said:
It dies a painful death, with SCG and WotC no longer supporting the format, it is unofficially dead (big scale tournament wise).
Click to expand...

There's a store in PA, Tales of Adventure, that's running a string of legacy tournaments on the east coast. That will probably satisfy some people I guess. Even though some of those tournaments look driveable I'm thinking about selling out of the format. It's hard to justify having ~4k worth of cards in a format that only a few of my friends still play. There's already enough other events that I'll actually be able to fill a car for. There's always xmage or proxies if I want to mess around. Could probably even borrow a deck for the rare GP.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
I should try to make a deck using the wonderful combo of Shape Anew and GOOD ARTIFACTS

The idea is to utilize these cards...

Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx

Image.ashx
WhirlerRogue.jpg



to go get these kinds of cards...

Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx


Maybe even, if I'm feeling saucy...

Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx
Image.ashx


I dunno. Could be a fun casual build.
 
O

OnPoint

Member
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";188447453]So you're basically building a Polymorph deck?[/QUOTE]

I mean, I have a Polymorph deck. This is different because...

I have a problem.
 
C

charlequin

Banned
Angry Grimace said:
And no, I don't think there's actually any reason one of these is going to exist. That's not to say they couldn't design it, but I hardly see it as some kind of untapped resource that is inevitable
Click to expand...

What do you consider inevitable PW design space? Triggered/static abilities, certainly; one with X loyalty based on X in the mana cost... the pickings get slim after that. This is a good one since it's something that feels like a new gimmick that they can get some decent mileage out of but is mostly leaning on the creative side. It's also actively beneficial for an issue creative has, which is that they have too many characters in their stories now -- this is a nice tool to deal with that.

beyond the completely vague and meaningless statement that 2 Headed Giant is a focus for the prerelease even though this hypothetical combo card doesn't inherently do anything for 2 Headed Giant.
Click to expand...

Again my question would just be what you think the 2HG thing is about. Every prerelease has a gimmick that comes out of the set contents and storyline now, so presumably it's reflected in the set somehow. If there's a mini team-up theme, there'll be cards that reflect that.

Anyway, my point isn't that they're definitely doing this (it's one of those off-chance predictions that looks amazing when you're right, but usually you aren't) but "well it's a bad idea" isn't a good argument against it.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
charlequin said:
What do you consider inevitable PW design space? Triggered/static abilities, certainly; one with X loyalty based on X in the mana cost... the pickings get slim after that. This is a good one since it's something that feels like a new gimmick that they can get some decent mileage out of but is mostly leaning on the creative side. It's also actively beneficial for an issue creative has, which is that they have too many characters in their stories now -- this is a nice tool to deal with that.
Click to expand...

It doesn't have to stop with triggered static abilities, those open so many options. The problem with synergistic walkers is that usually they can't protect themselves if they make a walker with ETB effects they can have synergistic abilities w/o having to build your deck completely around it.

Imagine Garruk putting a Garruk's Companion token into play on ETB and his abilities care about having creatures or beasts. Now you don't need to dedicate one of his abilities to make tokens and he won't just be a dead card in your hand.

The origin walkers are partly in that space.

If they do tag team PWs the way they've done walkers so far it'll be barely any different to having a 2 coloured walker.

divisionbyzorro said:
Literally nothing good comes from that.
Click to expand...

kirblar said:
*death stare*
Click to expand...

aww where's the fun in that.
 
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