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[SigmasonicX]

Absolutely. But this is not being "pissed off". Kiora's actions in the meeting before leaping out the window are impulsive and brash, while her plan is a stubborn rejection of reason rushed into due to strong emotion. I just don't think it gets more red than that. The only blue thing about her is she's a merfolk who plays with sea creatures. She should probably be red blue honestly haha

One aspect of blue is supposed to be the inability to adjust when something unexpected happens, so Kiora's stubbornness could be a reflection of that. Her actions could also be perceived as being the result of her thinking she simply knows better than everyone else, which is demonstrated in the new story and is a blue aspect.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

See I don't agree with this line of thought from a fiction standpoint. Personality is just as important in determining color identity as race is. For the same reason humans as a tribe can be any color, I don't think a merfolk should be definitely tied to blue because "water". From a mechanic standpoint, I guess a merfolk has to be blue? But putting green on her then having her act red just feels wrong. It's the same reason why dwarves don't work as mono-red, and will likely now be red-white. They're definitely white in characteristic, but will be red because "mountain".

I guess what I'm saying, is that I wish there wasn't such a disconnect between creative and design.

I was referring to the blue part the green comes from her mechanics and those are pretty cemented by now.

On theros she seemed blue black with the scheming and stealing of the trident.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I was referring to the blue part the green comes from her mechanics and those are pretty cemented by now.

On theros she seemed blue black with the scheming and stealing of the trident.

Her entire plan is basically the same as Nissa's - let's just drive him off plane lol this is a great idea!

 

[OnPoint]

I was referring to the blue part the green comes from her mechanics and those are pretty cemented by now.

On theros she seemed blue black with the scheming and stealing of the trident.

I don't have a problem with her being blue green. I have a problem with the fiction writing her as blue red. The card/Kiora design isn't wrong -- the writing is.

One aspect of blue is supposed to be the inability to adjust when something unexpected happens, so Kiora's stubbornness could be a reflection of that. Her actions could also be perceived as being the result of her thinking she simply knows better than everyone else, which is demonstrated in the new story and is a blue aspect.

OK, you may have a point there. But where's the green?

 

[jph139]

Stubbornness feels green to me, personally - it's very much the "resistance to change" color, albeit usually in the sense of traditionalism.

But I agree that they've been writing her off-color. She actually feels more Black to me; proud, tricky, self-centered, anti-establishment.

 

[Jhriad]

Man, I really want to buy into tier 1 affinity. $600+ is a lot of money on pieces of cardboard...

Just work up to it over time. What I've been doing is going to prereleases, Pucatrading out all the cards that have inflated prices (which during Prerelease is pretty much all of them) and using that value to Puca into Modern staples over time. Dumping things like $40 Gideons, $10 Tangolands, and other cards that'll decrease once supply sates demand goes a long way to building a collection even if you trade back into those cards during peak supply. If there are any cards I have to keep because I want to play with them immediately I'll keep them but otherwise I dump them asap. Being able to get out of several copies of Kiora, Ulamog, and Gideon and then trade back into them all while you net additional value that you can move into more eternally playable cards is nice.

 

[OnPoint]

Stubbornness feels green to me, personally - it's very much the "resistance to change" color, albeit usually in the sense of traditionalism.

But I agree that they've been writing her off-color. She actually feels more Black to me; proud, tricky, self-centered, anti-establishment.

I believe you are off base on green.

Green is the color most in tune with nature. Whereas the other colors seek to modify the world around them, green believes that the best course of action is to simply allow nature to take its course. Thus, green is often seen as the least confrontational of the colors: it does not seek to impose its values on others; it just wants to coexist as peacefully as possible. This does not mean that green will not defend itself when it feels threatened, but it generally will not seek to impose its opinion on others.

- http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Green​

I could see your argument about her being black though.

The same article I cite says this:

Green also relies on instinct. Green embodies this in the primal sense, being the color most attuned with wild animals. However, even green's more intelligent users dislike over-thinking matters, preferring to rely on their gut instinct to make judgments, rather than wasting time thinking about things. This primal aspect can lead to conflict with others, as green does not restrain the wild animals it is in tune with, allowing them to attack others as their instincts dictate: if they cannot defend themselves, then they were simply filling the role of prey in the natural cycle. Furthermore, green's reliance on gut instinct and first impressions can make it vulnerable to deception​

This actually feels a lot like what she's doing, but it also feels quite at odds with the other ideals of green.

 

[SigmasonicX]

OK, you may have a point there. But where's the green?

I had to think about this for a bit, but Kiora keeps bringing up stories and how she plays a certain role in that story. Until the end of the new story, she thought she was filling the role of Cosi. This seems green, the idea of intentionally trying to fill a role in an old legend.

This actually feels a lot like what she's doing, but it also feels quite at odds with the other ideals of green.

I think colors are allowed to be self-contradictory. That's how you get two different characters in the same color that act completely differently. Green allows both wise sages and guys with axes like Garruk.

 

[bigkrev]

Man, I really want to buy into tier 1 affinity. $600+ is a lot of money on pieces of cardboard...

It's about the safest deck you could invest in, because it has nothing that is in danger of ever being banned (the deck is balanced out by the incredibly powerful SB options against it- if the deck spikes a Pro Tour and dominates, there will be more SB cards in for it instead of something being banned).

This summer was the time to be buying in. Opals are on the rise, (they bottomed out at around $25 following MM2, but it's moving back towards $40), and I doubt it's getting another reprint in MM3. Ravager has doubled in price since the summer, and unless you want to gamble on a MM3 reprint (I would put it at a 25% chance), you aren't going to get it for under $50 come the new year.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I imagine Dark Confidant is going to finally get chucked from MM3 given that Liliana is almost a shoo-in and they're insistent on color-balancing. But maybe not, its sort of iconic. Too bad about Red Mythics still being horrible garbage and all.

 

[charlequin]

Lorthos ;_;

Gotta pour out one of these:

Farewell, my octopus friend; you were larger than all of us.

 

[bigkrev]

Magic Puzzle Quest is out tomorrow

 

[Angry Grimace]

I don't eve know how that works, nobody ever sends me anything good on Pucatrade unless its just some random Standard card. I've been trying to convert points into Abrupt Decay/Maelstrom Pulse forever and still haven't gotten it.

 

[Toxi]

* Kozilek easily kills Lorthos, knocking Kiora into the water where she falls unconscious.

NO, NOT LORTHOS!

 

[charlequin]

Honestly think the color pie mostly just extends to the magic they do and not their entire characterization.

Every person on the creative team posts about how important following the color pie is on their social media craps.

OK, you may have a point there. But where's the green?

She wants to solve a problem by hitting something with big giant creatures until the problem is gone; that's about as green as it gets.

I don't think she's really off-character for blue-green here. She made a plan (blue) to cleverly use someone else's actions as an opportunity to achieve her own agenda (blue), and that plan involves using giant monsters (green) to beat something up (green) so that the status quo is restored (green again.)

Stubbornness is also more green than anything else (again, status quo bias) and it's probably most compatible with blue (likes to make plans and doesn't like to see them be disrupted) or white (likes society to operate in a well-ordered fashion.) Red isn't really stubborn usually, it's more mercurial by nature.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Every person on the creative team posts about how important following the color pie is on their social media craps.



She wants to solve a problem by hitting something with big giant creatures until the problem is gone; that's about as green as it gets.

I don't think she's really off-character for blue-green here. She made a plan (blue) to cleverly use someone else's actions as an opportunity to achieve her own agenda (blue), and that plan involves using giant monsters (green) to beat something up (green) so that the status quo is restored (green again.)

Stubbornness is also more green than anything else (again, status quo bias) and it's probably most compatible with blue (likes to make plans and doesn't like to see them be disrupted) or white (likes society to operate in a well-ordered fashion.) Red isn't really stubborn usually, it's more mercurial by nature.

I've certainly never seen them say it, and in any case, expecting total tranquility from blue/green characters is way too far. It's not like its her credo or anything, she just thinks she knows better; her underlying attitude is "fuck these so-called Gods, I'm way smarter than them anyways." Seems pretty green-blue to me, even if she's not a straight up Simic Combine member - having a too-cool-for-school attitude about it doesn't really make her outlook red.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I believe you are off base on green.

Green is the color most in tune with nature. Whereas the other colors seek to modify the world around them, green believes that the best course of action is to simply allow nature to take its course. Thus, green is often seen as the least confrontational of the colors: it does not seek to impose its values on others; it just wants to coexist as peacefully as possible. This does not mean that green will not defend itself when it feels threatened, but it generally will not seek to impose its opinion on others.

- http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Green​

I could see your argument about her being black though.

The same article I cite says this:

Green also relies on instinct. Green embodies this in the primal sense, being the color most attuned with wild animals. However, even green's more intelligent users dislike over-thinking matters, preferring to rely on their gut instinct to make judgments, rather than wasting time thinking about things. This primal aspect can lead to conflict with others, as green does not restrain the wild animals it is in tune with, allowing them to attack others as their instincts dictate: if they cannot defend themselves, then they were simply filling the role of prey in the natural cycle. Furthermore, green's reliance on gut instinct and first impressions can make it vulnerable to deception​

This actually feels a lot like what she's doing, but it also feels quite at odds with the other ideals of green.

That's bollocks all the believes of the other colours go against green in some way or another the entire lifestyle goes against the colour so they have to defend their values anyway and are just as confrontational.

Yeah I agree entirely about her being blue/green, and I do think they give a pretty wide berth to what qualifies in each color or color combination, just saying that if you ask Doug or whoever they'll definitely make a big point about how characters should have personalities that fit their printed colors. (And I get the sense that Sarkhan 4 drew some complaints for this exact reason.)

They should make Sarkhan the first 5Coloured PW, he's only missing white at this point

 

[charlequin]

I've certainly never seen them say it, and in any case, expecting total tranquility from blue/green characters is way too far. It's not like its her credo or anything, she just thinks she knows better; her underlying attitude is "fuck these so-called Gods, I'm way smarter than them anyways." Seems pretty green-blue to me, even if she's not a straight up Simic Combine member - having a too-cool-for-school attitude about it doesn't really make her outlook red.

Yeah I agree entirely about her being blue/green, and I do think they give a pretty wide berth to what qualifies in each color or color combination, just saying that if you ask Doug or whoever they'll definitely make a big point about how characters should have personalities that fit their printed colors. (And I get the sense that Sarkhan 4 drew some complaints for this exact reason.)

 

[Firemind]

I don't think being a reckless idiot is exclusive to red.



As far as I can tell they only do Triple Time Spiral and not full block.

Okay this is just fucking bullshit.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Okay this is just fucking bullshit.

They did TSP within the last year and it was TSPx3...

 

[kirblar]

Kiota was using ancient tales and learned information and got blown up by an unknown known. Thats super UG. She was being reckless, but she didnt know that. Had she known she wouldnt have done it.

 

[The Technomancer]

I love that this game spawns these sort of discussions

 

[Ashodin]

seeing as we are talking about blood moon and the destruction of seagate, I made this with the new art from UR

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

free bloodmoon that can't be destroyed by most main boarded cards sounds fine.

 

[Firemind]

You know, I wonder how it's possible the people of Zendikar don't shit their collective pants at the immediate sight of one of these ancient, Cthulhu-like, world destructive beings.

Like, what are you even going to do with that sword?

Shit, I'd shit my pants if I were Jace, and he has plot armour!

 

[Ashodin]

free bloodmoon that can't be destroyed by most main boarded cards sounds fine.

You better believe it!

Better play that Scour from Existence!

 

[The Adder]

OK, you may have a point there. But where's the green?

"I want one."
- Kiorra

 

[Ashodin]

Moongate take 2

Now you can play around it!

Fits in with the potential rules changes.

? Waste.

? Safe!

 

[Angry Grimace]

seeing as we are talking about blood moon and the destruction of seagate, I made this with the new art from UR

Literally the best card ever printed

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Moongate take 2

Now you can play around it!

Fits in with the potential rules changes.

? Waste.

? Safe!

Now it's not a waste. You won't need to add the Tap for <> ability if it makes itself a waste. Urborg for instance doesn't have Tap for B, it just makes itself a swamp.

Wastes is also the name of a card and not a type no idea how that would work. The spoiled wastes are just Basic Lands named wastes. So the effect would make them basic lands.

 

[Ashodin]

Hmm what about Urborg style making everything Wastes? Wastes is a "basic land" so it assumes they make <> mana.

 

[kirblar]

Waste is not a basic land type. Card literally doesn't work.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Blood Moon changes the type and thereby the mana they produce not the name. Wastes isn't a sub type. Wastes is merely the name.

Urborg gives all lands the swamp type in addition even itself. The card doesn't have the Tap for Black Mana text on it since that comes with the type.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Shit, I'd shit my pants if I were Jace, and he has plot armour!

How does planeswalking even work? I feel like you'd never die in battle as a planeswalker if you could warp out of the dimension whenever you felt like it. Aren't they all effectively invincible?

 

[Ashodin]

Moongate take 3

Templating is super awkward.

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";188619638]How does planeswalking even work? I feel like you'd never die in battle as a planeswalker if you could warp out of the dimension whenever you felt like it. Aren't they all effectively invincible?[/QUOTE]

Current post-mending planeswalking takes a couple seconds for it to work, whereas I think pre-mending it was instantaneous. Everything I've read feels like moments go by before actual planeswalking happens (the land starts to fall away, etc).

 

[aidan]

Why are we operating under the assumption that Wastes is not a new basic land type?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Why are we operating under the assumption that Wastes is not a new basic land type?

Because its formatting is Basic Land and not Basic Land - Wastes.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Waste is not a basic land type. Card literally doesn't work.

Free uncounterable Blood Moon (except actually better than Blood Moon) would be the best constructed Magic card ever printed.

 

[aidan]

Free uncounterable Blood Moon (except actually better than Blood Moon) would be the best constructed Magic card ever printed.

Could any deck beat Affinity with a turn one Sea Gate, Laid to Waste?

 

[Ashodin]

I mean, I want to word it so that lands that do tap for <> still can do their thing. Fetchlands still work, etc.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Moongate take 3

Templating is super awkward.



Current post-mending planeswalking takes a couple seconds for it to work, whereas I think pre-mending it was instantaneous. Everything I've read feels like moments go by before actual planeswalking happens (the land starts to fall away, etc).

I'd make it

Nonbasic lands that do not produce <> lose all abilities and get "T: add <> to your manapool". T: add <> to your manapool.

The old PWs also had infinite mana no matter the location

 

[aidan]

I mean, I want to word it so that lands that do tap for <> still can do their thing. Fetchlands still work, etc.

I don't think the rules allow you to target cards based on the text in the rules box.

 

[Joe Molotov]

brb, mainboarding Mycosynth Lattice

 

[Angry Grimace]

Thanks. I missed that.



Could any deck beat Affinity with a turn one Sea Gate, Laid to Waste?

Pretty much 0 constructed decks could beat it at all. Even his new templating would mean the only good decks are Tron and Affinity.

This effect would cost something like 6 mana normally. The only cost here is "comes into play tapped" which isn't a real cost.

 

[SigmasonicX]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";188619638]How does planeswalking even work? I feel like you'd never die in battle as a planeswalker if you could warp out of the dimension whenever you felt like it. Aren't they all effectively invincible?[/QUOTE]

Currently, planeswalking takes some time to complete, and for many characters, requires a certain state of mind. It varies from character to character. For example, in the story where Elspeth describes how she left New Phyrexia, she was attacked by a Phyrexian Obliterator and got injured by it as she tries to planeswalk away. Her planeswalking was described as the ground slipping away from her. There was also that time Garruk (after he got his curse calmed by a hedron) was confronted by a planeswalker that he nicknamed Icy, and as Icy was planeswalking away, Garruk killed him. Icy had to slowly form a mirror of ice, whose reflection showed the world he was heading for.

 

[Remembrance]

I don't think the rules allow you to target cards based on the text in the rules box.

It works, in awkward templating land:

So "Whenever another nonbasic land is tapped for mana, if <> is not a type of mana that land could produce, that land produces <> instead of any other type"

 

[Ashodin]

I just realized I don't need the "other" text in there

Regardless, the latest UR paints a bleak picture for Zendikar. This was pretty much their only chance outside of Ugin's help to contain the Eldrazi. I think Ugin was working on getting the whole plane working as a prison again while Jace and Gideon did their thing.

 

[WanderingWind]

Free, turn one Blood Moon that even hoses RDW and Burn? Uh. I'll buy 900 of them and then sell them before the emergency, pre-release ban and buy a tiny nation state that I will call "Mistakistan." I shall be emperor and my flag will just be a blown up image art of Skullclamp.

 

[Ashodin]

Or you could you know, just play basic lands

 

[WanderingWind]

Or you could you know, just play basic lands

Free. Uncounterable. Turn one-able? (is that a word?) Changes all the mana on the board. You could hardly make a more broken card if you tried.