Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
They also confirmed a non basic cycle producing {C} btw. No details yet though.
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think Kozilek is worse than Ulamog so there's that.
acheron_xl
Member
OK, that mana symbol needs to come to Magic Set Editor, stat. I've got a fair bit of work to do now.
Kozilek is a lot better that Ulamog as long as there's sufficient ways to produce colorless mana. Refilling your hand and countering spells is a lot better than getting two vindicates.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Depends on the deck if you're ramping you usually don't reserve many slots for cards to get rid of your opponent's threats in play, two vindicates go a long way to put you back into the game.
charlequin
Banned
One thing I realized about the colorless symbol is that it gives them a very elegant way to insert a small amount of eldrazi flavor into a set without having to make a whole big mechanic about it. If they want to make a point of things being corrupted by Emrakul in SOI, for example, they could have effects that cost <> to indicate that, just using a symbol that's already on cards in the set.
Also: confirmation that there will be a preview every day of the WMC, so two more coming.
In 22 years of Magic I don't think WotC has ever acknowledged one of these leaks in advance except when it's the entire set weeks early (which happened twice, with Judgment and with New Phyrexia.) They still get a bunch of attention for it as they explain stuff about it officially so I'm not sure there's really any downside to them.
Also: confirmation that there will be a preview every day of the WMC, so two more coming.
In 22 years of Magic I don't think WotC has ever acknowledged one of these leaks in advance except when it's the entire set weeks early (which happened twice, with Judgment and with New Phyrexia.) They still get a bunch of attention for it as they explain stuff about it officially so I'm not sure there's really any downside to them.
I have a friend who agrees with you. After hearing his arguments as to why, I am inclined to agree. It feels like Legacy pushed card to me, though, Legacy is dead so...
Shrug
The word "officially" was used in previews, so they were tacitly acknowledging this one given just how far in advance it was.
I kinda don't think they minded this specific one because a) it was limited and b) holy shit did it reduce the legwork they needed to do explaining Colorless Mana Symbols.
I kinda don't think they minded this specific one because a) it was limited and b) holy shit did it reduce the legwork they needed to do explaining Colorless Mana Symbols.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I think the reason Ulamog is better is because ramping to 10 mana almost always means you're behind on board to begin with and Kozilek doesn't really help you there.
This. Kozilek doesn't do shit if you're facing down a pair of Mantis Riders, or a board full of Abzan threats that can attack you for lethal next turn through your one measly blocker. Ugin and Ulamog are both easier to cast and help manage the pressure on the board.
Koz might be a bit of a stretch for Standard ramp decks. I'm definitely jamming him in my mono-U tron deck in Modern, though.
Different lenses, I guess. I see Kozilek more as a control finisher than a ramp finisher.
charlequin
Banned
It's also something weird so when it leaks early people keep talking about it and speculating, as opposed to J. Random Planeswalker where people usually go "cool" and then that's the end of it.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
SigmasonicX
Member
Since Wastes is now confirmed to just be "Add (1)", and we know that there will be nonbasics that generate <>, it makes sense that there would only be two Wastes arts.
There'll be a third. It just won't be in this block.
Ah, makes sense, I thought it was an innate property of Wastes.
I hope the next preview isn't Mirrorpool
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Ah, makes sense, I thought it was an innate property of Wastes.
I hope the next preview isn't Mirrorpool
There's also the two legends that were leaked but those weren't digital but actual cards photographed so could be other cards.
It is real weird that the first printed versions of these won't say what they do. Like, they're lands so you can figure it out, but it's still a weird enough thing that it'll probably perplex someone opening up their first pack. I wonder if there will be reminder text for the <> mana costs or if it is just obvious enough that it works. Or if there's even a good way to write it. Because with the Oracle errata you'd say {<> costs can be paid only with <> mana.} but that doesn't help much because it is self referential. I guess just {<> costs can be paid only with colorless mana} would probably get you there.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I would have assumed that a basic land without a type would produce C by default.
rosewater got asked about this on tumblr - he said this was a divisive issue in r&d and he was on the side of including <> symbols on bfz cards, but r&d decided it would be even more confusing in limited to do it that way.
that said, making colorless act like a sixth color is such a splashy idea i think it could have carried two sets, and it makes me wonder why wotc even fucked around with devoid in the first place.
i've been too broke to play much magic past the occasional pre-release or draft recently and bfz did absolutely nothing for me during spoiler season so i didn't play any of it. even considering that, i'm so curious about how <> mana is going to work in a limited format i'm probably down for at least a prerelease and a few drafts. i guess bravo wizards on that front.
acheron_xl
Member
Part of me hopes they reprint the pain lands in Oath Expeditions with <> on them.
charlequin
Banned
So Rosewater confirms that a) there was a big debate about whether to introduce <> in BFZ or OGW and b) he was on the BFZ side. Unsurprisingly, OGW won out for marketing reasons -- if you introduce it in BFZ then it isn't splashy the same way.
Those were both pre-release stamped so at least the source of the leaks wasn't from preview material.
Sam Stoddard says that most of the cards have the reminder text, Kozilek just doesn't because he's a mythic and they knew they could explain when they previewed him.
That has weird effects in corner cases, like Urborg TOY causing Wastes to stop producing colorless.
Those were both pre-release stamped so at least the source of the leaks wasn't from preview material.
Sam Stoddard says that most of the cards have the reminder text, Kozilek just doesn't because he's a mythic and they knew they could explain when they previewed him.
That has weird effects in corner cases, like Urborg TOY causing Wastes to stop producing colorless.
GregLombardi
Member
I don't really think this changes magic much, overall, just gives them more stuff to play with. Seems like a fine addition.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Does anyone else think wizards subtly spoiled OATH cards in the BFZ expansion for duels? Gideon deck has a few new allies with rally. I don't think they've ever had a duels exclusive card.
I don't know which cards you're thinking of, but they're probably just old allies from the first Zendikar block.
I played through yesterday and didn't notice any new ones. I think the Allies in that deck are either from BFZ or from original Zendikar block (like Hada Freeblade).
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That's disappointing considering it's a small set.
Colorless mana in the cost probably only relating to Eldrazi at the moment, when applicable (and even then, probably only the titans).
HOWEVER, this gives the idea of an Eldrazi-blasted apocalyptic on-the-brink world a good go. Imagine where the mana cost is 2<>/W hybrid mana.
HOWEVER, this gives the idea of an Eldrazi-blasted apocalyptic on-the-brink world a good go. Imagine where the mana cost is 2<>/W hybrid mana.
"God's Beard!"
Member
This whole block is a mess. <> would have been a huge announcement to kick off the block and would have been way better than devoid nonsense.
[QUOTE="God's Beard!";188862443]This whole block is a mess. <> would have been a huge announcement to kick off the block and would have been way better than devoid nonsense.[/QUOTE]
Seems to me that it would have been a much better way to tie Eldrazi together in the large set, then, maaaaaaaaaaybe, introduce a scattering of devoid creatures in the second set, to signify the way even the native fauna on Zendikar is being corrupted.
Seems to me that it would have been a much better way to tie Eldrazi together in the large set, then, maaaaaaaaaaybe, introduce a scattering of devoid creatures in the second set, to signify the way even the native fauna on Zendikar is being corrupted.
Agreed, it works better that way.
INteresting
I like that each Eldrazi works differently. Ulamog (and its brood) process things from exile to work. Kozilek needs to transform things into Wastes (for colorless mana) to be able to operate.
So we can assume there's more Kozilek's brood that need <> to be cast. I also like the idea that Kozilek, The Great Distortion, is so powerful that it has warped our thoughts about what (1) is and turned it into <>.
I like that each Eldrazi works differently. Ulamog (and its brood) process things from exile to work. Kozilek needs to transform things into Wastes (for colorless mana) to be able to operate.
So we can assume there's more Kozilek's brood that need <> to be cast. I also like the idea that Kozilek, The Great Distortion, is so powerful that it has warped our thoughts about what (1) is and turned it into <>.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
But why does Ulamog create wastes producing it then?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My guess is that they decided to just eat it with regard to people moaning and groaning about it during the overlap of BFZ and OGW.
By far my biggest wish for OGW is that ♦ cards are actually good instead of garbage like snow mana cards were. Please make it worthwhile to draft Wastes.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Why play Kozilek over Ulamog? Ulamog protects itself for free, immediately affects the board and can't be chumped by two squirrels.
Kozilek conditionally protects itself, sure, but the deck running it has basically nothing but ramp spells which are sort of useless once you've put Kozilek or Ulamog on the battlefield.
I, too, am hoping they made good cards for this set.
Lately, though, I have little faith in that.
Side effect of the processing. Interestingly enough, Kozilek can use those wastes as well (though is probably not as preferred as beautiful bismuth). I like the idea of the Eldrazi inadvertently helping each other with their mechanics. I'll be shocked if some of Kozilek's brood in this set don't exile (note, they don't have to have processors, just cards with exile on them).
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
We can only hope that being designed by someone who didn't their entire design file pitched into a garbage can will help it be coherent.
Nazgul_Hunter
Member
Ahhh yes that's one of the ones I was thinking of. They basically had Rally in WW and they templated them like that in Duels, which confused me.
After BFZ, I have serious doubts. I get that this is looking like the shakey-transition block between 3-set-blocks and 2-set-blocks, but they almost couldn't have done worse so far if they tried. If OGW is boring, this will go down as a low-point for the game, at least in my opinion.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Kinda shame Ulamog and Kozilek didn't do a high five in the Uncharted Realms when passing each other.
Following that comes a huge message on the sky "a new warrior has entered the ring"
come on it isn't that bad. It's not a Kamigawa.
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