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[Hero]

I don't know if I can fully agree with your statement about them being unable to revisit planes successfully.

While Scars block certainly had some issues I feel like it really did show the plane again after a lot of time had passed and put us back into that world just in time to see it corrupted. Mechanically, sure, affinity being completely absent was understandable but still disappointing and metalcraft for the most part is underwhelming but I think the overall reception was fairly positive.

RTR block started out really strong and just went weaker as it went out. As kirblar points out, half of the guilds getting Legacy-playable cards in the first set while the second set let the other guilds suffer and instead got shitty commander fatties left a sour taste and Dragon's Maze is probably one of the worst modern sets any way you slice it, people still really enjoyed visiting the plane again.

I don't know about BFZ. Still too early to tell, but I'm not impressed with what we've seen. Full art lands and enemy manlands with worse Eldrazi are probably not going to excite a lot of people.

I eagerly await the return to Innistrad in 2017 and I wouldn't mind going back to Kamigawa, although that one is ironic. As I feel BFZ is almost too distanced from the original Zendikar set, I feel like if they revisited the themes of Kamigawa with Japanese myths and tropes but distanced themselves from the crappy spirit and arcane nonsense it might be cool.

Of course, I'm an old school player and really want to go back to Dominaria.

 

[sgjackson]

40 lands is too many, you could go down to 38 or even 36 if you plan of adding more mana rocks.

cut three lands (the two tainted duals because there aren't enough swamps to trigger them often and lavaclaw reaches cause it's a 2 dollar card and doesn't seem like it really adds much over a tap dual) and added waste not and the other two signets. any other suggestions?

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

cut three lands (the two tainted duals because there aren't enough swamps to trigger them often and lavaclaw reaches cause it's a 2 dollar card and doesn't seem like it really adds much over a tap dual) and added waste not and the other two signets. any other suggestions?

I have ZERO experience with Nekusar but based on Competitive primers I have checked out, you could add stuff like Temple Bell, Basalt Monolith, Liliana's Caress and counterspells.

 

[Firemind]

I have ZERO experience with Nekusar but based on Competitive primers I have checked out, you could add stuff like Temple Bell, Basalt Monolith, Liliana's Caress and counterspells.

No counterspells because they don't advance your goal. if you absolutely need them, use counters that replace themselves like Remand and Arcane Denial or cheap ones like Dispel and Swan's Song.

I'd cut most of the creatures except ones that have unique abilities like Notion Thief. Fate Unraveler for example is a bad Underworld Dreams. I'd cut most of the (mass) removal except Cyclonic Rift and add Propaganda (the one with Nekusar flavour text!). I'd cut Mana Flare, since helping others is not very Grixis-like. Draw/discard hand effects are different because you have avenues to make them asymmetrical (as in they take a ton of damage.) And I'd cut the auras. Helm of the Ghastlord is the nuts with Nekusar, but more often than not, it will not survive for very long, if at all. You really just want to cast Nekusar when you can go 'off'. And you go off with fast mana and ideally with Waste Not. Tutors are therefore pretty important. You don't really need Demonic Tutor or other expensive tutors. Something like Dark Petition, Beseech the Queen and Lim-Dul's Vault also work just fine. I also really like Drift of Phantasms because it doubles as a blocker should you need one.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

No counterspells because they don't advance your goal. if you absolutely need them, use counters that replace themselves like Remand and Arcane Denial or cheap ones like Dispel and Swan's Song.

I'd cut most of the creatures except ones that have unique abilities like Notion Thief. Fate Unraveler for example is a bad Underworld Dreams. I'd cut most of the (mass) removal except Cyclonic Rift and add Propaganda (the one with Nekusar flavour text!). I'd cut Mana Flare, since helping others is not very Grixis-like. Draw/discard hand effects are different because you have avenues to make them asymmetrical (as in they take a ton of damage.) And I'd cut the auras. Helm of the Ghastlord is the nuts with Nekusar, but more often than not, it will not survive for very long, if at all. You really just want to cast Nekusar when you can go 'off'. And you go off with fast mana and ideally with Waste Not. Tutors are therefore pretty important. You don't really need Demonic Tutor or other expensive tutors. Something like Dark Petition, Beseech the Queen and Lim-Dul's Vault also work just fine. I also really like Drift of Phantasms because it doubles as a blocker should you need one.

I'd agree with that if Nekusar had built-in protection or if at the very least the listing had more protection equipment. You still need to protect your commander in order to advance your plan and you still need to deal with combos exploding in your face.

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

lol, the Akroan Horse in the SCG Open in Round 2. Love it. For real, I love the Opens.

 

[Firemind]

I'd agree with that if Nekusar had built-in protection or if at the very least the listing had more protection equipment. You still need to protect your commander in order to advance your plan and you still need to deal with combos exploding in your face.

I don't know which combo deck could beat you before you beat them. You're playing Grixis. It's all fast mana, tutors and card draw. And you don't actually need to resolve Nekusar to win. Spiteful Visions, Underworld Dreams, Psychosis Crawler, Liliana's Caress etc. do the job too. Nekusar is more like an extra win condition that you get to keep recasting. Plus it's a lich lord. How badass is that?

 

[sgjackson]

testing a counterspell package (seems like most people are running a small handful) would be easy because i already have a good number of the commander centric counters laying around so it wouldn't be hard to pick up the other cheap ones. i agree with you on the auras (auras without some kind of redundancy make me sad in general) but killing someone with infect is cool enough i kinda want to try the infect auras anyway. i like the idea of having some redundancy in effects via creatures so i kinda want to keep some of those around and see how it works. with that in mind, i was thinking this, with a further eye to more mana rocks in lieu of creatures if that bites me in the ass.

-Curiosity
-Helm of the Ghastlord
-Mana Flare
-Ophidian Eye
-Crux of Fate
-Life's Finale

+Underworld Connections
+Propaganda
+Dark Petition
+Beseech the Queen
+Lim-Dul's Vault
+Liliana's Caress

 

[duxstar]

Anybody have any idea how to build any of the new mana bases ??? I don't feel like doing the math.

Say you want to build Temur, how would you build it with the mana base we know about? Do you still leave the 4 Frontier Bivouac in, or do you take them out and just go alot of fetchlands. I think it's a little easier to see if your running the Shard block (if im running naya I run wooded foothills, Windswept Heath, and Cinder glades and Canopy Vista with some of the basic's to fetch up so your lands enter untapped)

It's one of those things that I just get a feel for but since I'm not testing decks or anything it's hard to get a feel for the right mana base.

 

[Matriox]

Anybody have any idea how to build any of the new mana bases ??? I don't feel like doing the math.

Say you want to build Temur, how would you build it with the mana base we know about? Do you still leave the 4 Frontier Bivouac in, or do you take them out and just go alot of fetchlands. I think it's a little easier to see if your running the Shard block (if im running naya I run wooded foothills, Windswept Heath, and Cinder glades and Canopy Vista with some of the basic's to fetch up so your lands enter untapped)

It's one of those things that I just get a feel for but since I'm not testing decks or anything it's hard to get a feel for the right mana base.

It all depends strictly on how important what needs to be cast when, and how many of certain color spells you're casting, which we won't know until we have a list to work with.

 

[SigmasonicX]

Anybody have any idea how to build any of the new mana bases ??? I don't feel like doing the math.

Say you want to build Temur, how would you build it with the mana base we know about? Do you still leave the 4 Frontier Bivouac in, or do you take them out and just go alot of fetchlands. I think it's a little easier to see if your running the Shard block (if im running naya I run wooded foothills, Windswept Heath, and Cinder glades and Canopy Vista with some of the basic's to fetch up so your lands enter untapped)

It's one of those things that I just get a feel for but since I'm not testing decks or anything it's hard to get a feel for the right mana base.

Divide your cards up into the earliest turn you want to be able to cast them. This normally matches up to the mana cost, but an expensive morph card may go into the turn 3 group, or something like Den Protector, that you want to cast face down and flip on the same turn, will go in the turn 5 group. This goes for other alternate costs, and there are also low-mana cards that you wouldn't want to cast until later. Now see what mana you want available on each turn, which can be done by adding up the colored mana of each card. From there, you determine which lands you want. If there are more cards that require G, or your earlier turns need more G, then put more Forests and other G-producing lands in your deck.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

I might ditch red and try a G/U fatty tempo deck once Battle for Zendikar rolls around.

Bounding Krasis, Kiora, Sagu Mauler, maybe Hooting Mandrills or Frost Walker. Gonna need to check the power <4 creep is good enough to keep Stubborn Denial, it's just so good.

 

[charlequin]

I see WotC has been leaning on RoboRosewater for the Eldrazi design in this set:

 

[kirblar]

I want to see "T: The next time target player would draw a card, they draw it from the bottom of their library instead" on a Rav goblin.

 

[duxstar]

I might ditch red and try a G/U fatty tempo deck once Battle for Zendikar rolls around.

Bounding Krasis, Kiora, Sagu Mauler, maybe Hooting Mandrills or Frost Walker. Gonna need to check the power <4 creep is good enough to keep Stubborn Denial, it's just so good.

Funny you say that, because I just sat down and wrote up a quick "Temur midrange" decklist (just to get a list out for my idea's so i don't forget them), and the only card I actually wanted in the deck was Radiant Flames out of the sideboard. I think Temur has the power to just grind out a match slowly if it needs to, maybe not as good as abzan, but when you have Den protector, Deathmist Raptor and the new Green Mythic that returns a card from the graveyard that's a TON of recursion in one deck; and add that with disdainful strokes, and stubborn denial's, and I could see it becoming a thing.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Funny you say that, because I just sat down and wrote up a quick "Temur midrange" decklist (just to get a list out for my idea's so i don't forget them), and the only card I actually wanted in the deck was Radiant Flames out of the sideboard. I think Temur has the power to just grind out a match slowly if it needs to, maybe not as good as abzan, but when you have Den protector, Deathmist Raptor and the new Green Mythic that returns a card from the graveyard that's a TON of recursion in one deck; and add that with disdainful strokes, and stubborn denial's, and I could see it becoming a thing.

It does. I'm tempted to throw in Feed the Clan, because Rattleclaw Mystic isn't as useful as Elvish Mystic for aggro. It does let you roll Knux with haste or a Stubborn Denial for protection, though, so I may just throw FtC over something else.

Temur is going to go to midrange aggro/tempo with rotation. Elvish Mystic was huge in my strategy, and now I have to grind my matches if I don't get Frost Walker out on 2 and Knux on 3.

Temur has still given me by far my greatest win:loss percentage though, by a longshot.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Funny you say that, because I just sat down and wrote up a quick "Temur midrange" decklist (just to get a list out for my idea's so i don't forget them), and the only card I actually wanted in the deck was Radiant Flames out of the sideboard. I think Temur has the power to just grind out a match slowly if it needs to, maybe not as good as abzan, but when you have Den protector, Deathmist Raptor and the new Green Mythic that returns a card from the graveyard that's a TON of recursion in one deck; and add that with disdainful strokes, and stubborn denial's, and I could see it becoming a thing.

See the Unwritten for big Double Eternal Witness, return See the Unwritten. Cast again, hope you get Ulamog.

Also, I don't know what's funnier: the way chat reacts whenever they mention Gaby Spartz on stream, or the fact that the stream mentions her for no apparent reason. (Because they know the stream loses it when she's on camera)

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yay, all my bulk cards for my Vendilion Clique EDH deck have arrived!

It's not optimal yet, but there's something special about an EDH deck with an average CMC under 2.

 

[duxstar]

See the Unwritten for big Double Eternal Witness, return See the Unwritten. Cast again, hope you get Ulamog.

Also, I don't know what's funnier: the way chat reacts whenever they mention Gaby Spartz on stream, or the fact that the stream mentions her for no apparent reason. (Because they know the stream loses it when she's on camera)

Lol did you see Chapins deck , he's pretty funny and you can tell when he talks that he's really excited about magic. Cool decklist too, though I'm more likely to play the deck Steve Rubin was playing

 

[Ozigizo]

testing a counterspell package (seems like most people are running a small handful) would be easy because i already have a good number of the commander centric counters laying around so it wouldn't be hard to pick up the other cheap ones. i agree with you on the auras (auras without some kind of redundancy make me sad in general) but killing someone with infect is cool enough i kinda want to try the infect auras anyway. i like the idea of having some redundancy in effects via creatures so i kinda want to keep some of those around and see how it works. with that in mind, i was thinking this, with a further eye to more mana rocks in lieu of creatures if that bites me in the ass.

-Curiosity
-Helm of the Ghastlord
-Mana Flare
-Ophidian Eye
-Crux of Fate
-Life's Finale

+Underworld Connections
+Propaganda
+Dark Petition
+Beseech the Queen
+Lim-Dul's Vault
+Liliana's Caress

If you really want to kill someone with infect, just put
Skith as your commander and run Hatred. That or Howl From Beyond.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";178549427]Yay, all my bulk cards for my Vendilion Clique EDH deck have arrived!

It's not optimal yet, but there's something special about an EDH deck with an average CMC under 2.[/QUOTE]
Isn't that just tiny leaders

 

["God's Beard!"]

Isn't that just tiny leaders

Basically except I get to play Force of Will and Treasure Cruise

 

[duxstar]

Any reason we haven't gotten any spoilers this weekend yet ? I thought they have them to different websites and we would've got something

 

[SigmasonicX]

Any reason we haven't gotten any spoilers this weekend yet ? I thought they have them to different websites and we would've got something

There have never been official spoilers on weekends during spoiler weeks.

 

[sgjackson]

If you really want to kill someone with infect, just put
Skith as your commander and run Hatred. That or Howl From Beyond.

i've always thought skittles was cool as shit but something about voltron commanders just doesn't feel fun to me. still gonna see what a viable list looks like for funsies though.

 

[crazygambit]

So I installed Steam for the first time to check out this game, but I'm having some issues with the trackpad on my notebook. It's way off!

It's easier to see when I try to drag a square around the cards, it's not anywhere near where the cursor is indicating, but up and to the left. Significantly so. This makes most menu items unclickable, specially the lower ones. I find no calibration settings and I'm not sure if the problem is Steam or the game, but needless to say it's completely unplayable for me at the moment. I guess I could play exclusively with a keyboard, but that seems cumbersome.

Anyone else have an issue like this? My laptop is running windows 8.

 

[SigmasonicX]

So I installed Steam for the first time to check out this game, but I'm having some issues with the trackpad on my notebook. It's way off!

It's easier to see when I try to drag a square around the cards, it's not anywhere near where the cursor is indicating, but up and to the left. Significantly so. This makes most menu items unclickable, specially the lower ones. I find no calibration settings and I'm not sure if the problem is Steam or the game, but needless to say it's completely unplayable for me at the moment. I guess I could play exclusively with a keyboard, but that seems cumbersome.

Anyone else have an issue like this? My laptop is running windows 8.

You'll get better technical support at the Magic Duels OT, since many here haven't actually played it and many posters in that thread don't post here.

 

[crazygambit]

You'll get better technical support at the Magic Duels OT, since many here haven't actually played it and many posters in that thread don't post here.

Will do, thanks

 

[Infinite Stars]

Does Cockatrice have the spoilers in the files yet? I'm working on a deck that includes Zada and I need to do some testing to see if it works/flows right.

 

[duxstar]

Does Cockatrice have the spoilers in the files yet? I'm working on a deck that includes Zada and I need to do some testing to see if it works/flows right.

Officially ? No but there is normally an updater / xml file out by now

 

[Angry Grimace]

Boy, control does not seem very well positioned right now.

 

[kirblar]

Boy, control does not seem very well positioned right now.

Hasn't been since people figured out Den Protector. Hangarback was just the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I wish I had seen something interesting in BFZ to build around.

The brews I'm coming up with so far are just grindy value Naya decks.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Boy, control does not seem very well positioned right now.

We still have: Ultimate Price, Murderous Cut, Stubborn Denial, Dead Drop, Foul Tongue Invocation, Utter End, Virulent Plague, and the clan Charms leftover.

Fuck draw-go-counter.


edit: I love the flavor of Alara and its shards. I like Jund and Naya's flavors very much.

 

[Reishiki]

On Alara, now that I'm not on mobile:

I started playing MTG proper during Conflux, and the casual five colour deck I built around four Maelstrom Archangels (3 from the same fat pack, plus a foil from a starter deck booster) was my one of my first decks. I have a lot of fondness for the set that got me into playing the game, essentially.

 

[Angry Grimace]

We still have: Ultimate Price, Murderous Cut, Stubborn Denial, Dead Drop, Foul Tongue Invocation, Utter End, Virulent Plague, and the clan Charms leftover.

Fuck draw-go-counter.


edit: I love the flavor of Alara and its shards. I like Jund and Naya's flavors very much.

The problem is that the impact cards from Dragons of Tarkir and Magic Origins are super grindy removal-resistant stuff like Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, Hangarback Walker, etc.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

The problem is that the impact cards from Dragons of Tarkir and Magic Origins are super grindy removal-resistant stuff like Den Protector, Deathmist Raptor, Hangarback Walker, etc.

Exile seems to be a huge thing in BfZ. I'm sure we're gonna get an exile removal or two.

 

[Matriox]

Exile seems to be a huge thing in BfZ. I'm sure we're gonna get an exile removal or two.

Ulamog :3

 

[The Technomancer]

Exile seems to be a huge thing in BfZ. I'm sure we're gonna get an exile removal or two.

We already got that Flash Ring earlier

 

[duxstar]

There is absolutely no way we will go into next standard without A dissolve/dissipate variant.

I dont know though in my time of playing I've seen Sphinx Rev control , and Esper Dragons u/b control, the first week after the pro tour Esper Dragons felt unbeatable.

Also tough to say control is dead when things like Abzan control have been so good. They don't counter things , they just kill anything that touches the board.

 

[Angry Grimace]

There is absolutely no way we will go into next standard without A dissolve/dissipate variant.

I dont know though in my time of playing I've seen Sphinx Rev control , and Esper Dragons u/b control, the first week after the pro tour Esper Dragons felt unbeatable.

Also tough to say control is dead when things like Abzan control have been so good. They don't counter things , they just kill anything that touches the board.

Well, we're mostly talking about Draw-Go U/x control, not Abzan Control, which I think a lot of people treat like a midrange deck with a stupid amount of removal (which in the end, is a control deck, yes)

One of the spoiler guys says the Counter variant is 1UU w/4UU Awaken 3.

 

[Reishiki]

edit: I love the flavor of Alara and its shards. I like Jund and Naya's flavors very much.

Yeah, I liked the lore surrounding Alara too, especially Esper. I can understand being bummed out by the lack of unique mechanic for Esper, especially next to something like Exalted or Devour.

I still wants me a Bolas vs. Ugin duel deck at some point.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yeah, I liked the lore surrounding Alara too, especially Esper. I can understand being bummed out by the lack of unique mechanic for Esper, especially next to something like Exalted or Devour.

I still wants me a Bolas vs. Ugin duel deck at some point.

Not gonna happen unless that's a set for 2 reasons: Ugin isn't a card WOTC would ever put in a duel deck and they only do the duel decks with specific block walkers.

 

[duxstar]

Well, we're mostly talking about Draw-Go U/x control, not Abzan Control, which I think a lot of people treat like a midrange deck with a stupid amount of removal (which in the end, is a control deck, yes)

One of the spoiler guys says the Counter variant is 1UU w/4UU Awaken 3.

Which is a terrifying card in a ton of ways , Control decks that now don't even need creatures in the main board is a scary proposition.

What's to stop them from just running spells with awaken cost and devoting every single resource to stopping whatever you plan you have and then when they can both play creatures and counter a spell In the late game just take over.

I'm pretty doubtful they are reprinting stone rain , or destroy all lands anytime soon.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Which is a terrifying card in a ton of ways , Control decks that now don't even need creatures in the main board is a scary proposition.

What's to stop them from just running spells with awaken cost and devoting every single resource to stopping whatever you plan you have and then when they can both play creatures and counter a spell In the late game just take over.

I'm pretty doubtful they are reprinting stone rain , or destroy all lands anytime soon.

Awaken-Cancel is worse than Dissolve in almost every way

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Well, Dissolve is absurdly good.

 

[Firemind]

It's time for Disdainful Stroke to shine!

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Well, we're mostly talking about Draw-Go U/x control.

I fail to see why the most unfun, horribly-beloved-by-R&D archetype not getting more weapons is a bad thing.

Devour was a mechanic I felt was underused. I think BUG with Devour would be an awesome wedge.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I fail to see why the most unfun, horribly-beloved-by-R&D archetype not getting more weapons is a bad thing.

Devour was a mechanic I felt was underused. I think BUG with Devour would be an awesome wedge.

Nah, I agree draw-go is a miserable archetype.

Maybe I'm confused but I feel like the mana bases are better for Shard decks than Wedge decks with allied fetches and allied fetchable duals.

 

[Firemind]

Shame there's no reason to play Grixis.