Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)

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Exokell said:
How is Gideon better when the +1 is worthless cause of summoning sickness? His anthem just kills him. 2/2 without abilities is worthless.
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In my Modern Polymorph build? This is my line of thinking. (and for what it's worth, I'm using Sorin Lord of Innistrad)

  1. A 2/2 is better than a 1/1
  2. I can make Gideon a creature and Polymorph him away in a pinch
  3. He has value in multiples because of his ultimate
  4. He scales me upward better in a non-Polymorph configuration

I'm open to hearing why this is wrong though. I want this deck to be good haha
 
OnPoint said:
I still have my Modern B/W Token/Polymorph build that I tinker with from time to time. I'm starting to think I need to replace the Sorins with BfZ Gideons, so I'm hoping he gets kinda cheap at some point in the future. He's just overall better I think in every way. I'm thinking I might switch up my plan, and Game 1 just go straight tokens, and game 2 go for the Polymorph/Emrakul package, instead of it being reversed like it is now. Game 1 usually goes great for me, but it's a little more nebulous after that. Then again, I don't play Modern as much as I'd like, so I haven't done enough real testing.
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But isn't the point of BW tokens for the tokens to be evasive? Gideon just makes 2/2s and with a couple tokens out Sorin's +1 will hit for 3 or 4 additional damage anyways.

I am contemplating taking some cues from the rally the ancestors decks in addition. Teysa in particular should be sweet, I can't find the decklist though it was Abzan rally it was Return to the Ranks
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
But isn't the point of BW tokens for the tokens to be evasive? Gideon just makes 2/2s and with a couple tokens out Sorin's +1 will hit for 3 or 4 additional damage anyways.

I am contemplating taking some cues from the rally the ancestors decks in addition. Teysa in particular should be sweet, I can't find the decklist though it was just BW
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Do you mean Lord of Innistrad, or Solemn Visitor?
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Solemn visitor.
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Gotcha. I never tried Solemn Visitor in the deck, honestly. I should probably playtest it.

I found that, while playing my version, I got absolutely ran over by Aggro-Zoo. While their deck got out fast, I found what got me the hardest was Pyroclasm effects. A bunch of 1/1 and 2/2 tokens get absolutely wiped, especially in the face of an opposite board of 2/3 and 3/3 creatures. Sorin giving +1/+0 is cool, but Gideon's anthem emblem might help shore up against that. It's important to point out that my deck is different than most tokens builds, since I'm trying to do the whole Polymorph thing and have no Creature spells in the deck at all except Emrakul (and/or Iona after sideboard). I should probably post a list at some point.
 
OnPoint said:
Gotcha. I never tried Solemn Visitor in the deck, honestly. I should probably playtest it.

I found that, while playing my version, I got absolutely ran over by Aggro-Zoo. While their deck got out fast, I found what got me the hardest was Pyroclasm effects. A bunch of 1/1 and 2/2 tokens get absolutely wiped, especially in the face of an opposite board of 2/3 and 3/3 creatures. Sorin giving +1/+0 is cool, but Gideon's anthem emblem might help shore up against that. It's important to point out that my deck is different than most tokens builds, since I'm trying to do the whole Polymorph thing and have no Creature spells in the deck at all except Emrakul (and/or Iona after sideboard). I should probably post a list at some point.
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Without seeing a list, a polymorph build mashed together with tokens sounds like a dilution of both strategies to the point where there's not much hope for either to be consistent.
 
Socat said:
Without seeing a list, a polymorph build mashed together with tokens sounds like a dilution of both strategies to the point where there's not much hope for either to be consistent.
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I thought that too, but I went and built a version and it plays better than you think it might. Lemme sketch out a rough list here, the numbers probably aren't quite right:

4 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
4 Raise the Alarm
4 Lingering Souls
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sorin Lord of Innistrad
3 Bitterblossom
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Polymorph
1 Proteus Staff
2 Emrakul
X Landbase

The sideboard includes stuff to make it more of a tokens deck, like Intangible Virtue,
as well as targeted stuff like Leyline of Sanctity, Stony Silence, etc.​

This is not a fast deck. The main plan is obviously to get the Polymorph/Emrakul combo, and the discard/removal package is usually really good at keeping decks off balance until you can nail it. If the Polymorph plan fails or isn't needed, the tokens often can smash face due to sheer numbers.

Firemind said:
Doesn't tokens play Intangible Virtue? Playing Gideon for the anthem effect seems suboptimal. I suppose I could see one or two maindeck.
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In a normal tokens deck? Yes. In mine? I theorize that he provides a crazy amount of utility for the Polymorph combo.
 
Doesn't tokens play Intangible Virtue? Playing Gideon for the anthem effect seems suboptimal. I suppose I could see one or two maindeck.
 
OnPoint said:
Gotcha. I never tried Solemn Visitor in the deck, honestly. I should probably playtest it.

I found that, while playing my version, I got absolutely ran over by Aggro-Zoo. While their deck got out fast, I found what got me the hardest was Pyroclasm effects. A bunch of 1/1 and 2/2 tokens get absolutely wiped, especially in the face of an opposite board of 2/3 and 3/3 creatures. Sorin giving +1/+0 is cool, but Gideon's anthem emblem might help shore up against that. It's important to point out that my deck is different than most tokens builds, since I'm trying to do the whole Polymorph thing and have no Creature spells in the deck at all except Emrakul (and/or Iona after sideboard). I should probably post a list at some point.
Click to expand...

Can you play languish, it will kill yours too but it should get rid of all but goyf. Might also be a case for tragic arrogance.
 
Familienoberhauptvogel said:
Can you play languish, it will kill yours too but it should get rid of all but goyf. Might also be a case for tragic arrogance.
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I'll give it a shot, it's an interesting thought. 4 is kind of the top of the curve in this deck (Emrakul not withstanding but I'm not hard casting that haha) so it might fit. That said, would Damnation be better?
 
I'd rather play a standard tokens deck with a transformative Polymorph/Emrakul sideboard. You need to be able to apply pressure in Modern. A lot of decks play hand disruption and counterspells, so playing Polymorph maindeck has its disadvantages. Whereas after sideboarding, you can catch them offguard since they assume you're on the tokens plan which is fairly linear.
 
Yeah Damnation would kill Emrakul. Good point.

Firemind said:
I'd rather play a standard tokens deck with a transformative Polymorph/Emrakul sideboard. You need to be able to apply pressure in Modern. A lot of decks play hand disruption and counterspells, so playing Polymorph maindeck has its disadvantages. Whereas after sideboarding, you can catch them offguard since they assume you're on the tokens plan which is fairly linear.
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I was thinking of doing it this way, so I might try that. Catching people off guard is the biggest benefit the deck gets with that plan.
 
I'm not a Timmy at all but attacking someone with a 15/15 and a 17/17 Hangarback Walker on turn six is just the best. It's a shame Solidarity of Heroes will be rotating out of my Scales deck just when Drana will be rotating in.
 
OnPoint said:
I still have my Modern B/W Token/Polymorph build that I tinker with from time to time. I'm starting to think I need to replace the Sorins with BfZ Gideons, so I'm hoping he gets kinda cheap at some point in the future. He's just overall better I think in every way. I'm thinking I might switch up my plan, and Game 1 just go straight tokens, and game 2 go for the Polymorph/Emrakul package, instead of it being reversed like it is now. Game 1 usually goes great for me, but it's a little more nebulous after that. Then again, I don't play Modern as much as I'd like, so I haven't done enough real testing.
Click to expand...

Gideon is just worse than Sorin actually. Sorin + Intangible Virtue just wins the game.

Also, if you're using Lord of Innistrad you're using the wrong Sorin.

Firemind said:
Doesn't tokens play Intangible Virtue? Playing Gideon for the anthem effect seems suboptimal. I suppose I could see one or two maindeck.
Click to expand...

I have BW Tokens and I play 4 of them. It is tempting to make the deck cheap, but the deck isn't nearly as good without Liliana of the Veil and Auriok Champion

4 Auriok Champion

3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Path to Exile
4 Spectral Procession
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
1 Murderous Cut

4 Bitterblossom
4 Intangible Virtue

4 Marsh Flats
4 Godless Shrine
3 Plains
3 Windbrisk Heights
2 Fetid Heath
2 Arid Mesa
2 Windswept Heath
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Swamp
1 Isolated Chapel
 
Angry Grimace said:
Gideon is just worse than Sorin actually. Sorin + Intangible Virtue just wins the game.

Also, if you're using Lord of Innistrad you're using the wrong Sorin.
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You could be right. I never got any of the Khans one, and it's worth trying it out. Don't know why I never thought of it until y'all pointed it out. I also built the deck before Khans came out.
 
It's already up actually

lol bigkrev

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Strictly better than Ghostfire lmao EDIT: I forgot Ghostfire was an Instant

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Interesting

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Interesting to see more of the Atarka's Command ability popping up elsewhere.

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Blowout city till people know it is a card.

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"The One We Should've Actually Called Pin to the Earth"
 
I really like the Eldrazi one drops.

Only 2 mandlands?

The commons and uncommons are just way more exciting than the rares. I guess this makes it great for drafting. Blue seemed really controllish, red disappointing, white a few standouts, black pretty great and green ok.
 
The power level is this set is probably below Theros.

Also, lol at the uncommon with fake-annihilator
 
I like the B/W "when you gain life, do X" archetype. Should be fun to pilot in draft.

Overall still underwhelming, though. No must-have cards for me.
 
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