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[Daedardus]

Twin is very fair though. It still gets played a lot, but it doesn't always win and it certainly does not dominate the format. Most recent twin decks don't always try to pull of the combo, and are going for a more tempo strategy where the opponent still has to deal with the possibility of the combo.

But Modern has become a very versatile format and multiple strategies are viable accros the board. Last GP and SCG Open only had one Twin in the Top 8 and a very wide range of decks in the Top 32. Play what you like to play is the most important part of Modern.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

You have no plays until turn 4 most of the time unless you rearrange your fetch triggers to get a Crackling Doom on Turn 3, but a large amount of the time this involves fetching for basics and locking yourself out of some other relevant color because you're running so many colors.

If you're gonna potentially lock yourself out of a color and hope for land drops later, your one possible turn 3 play shouldn't be Crackling Doom, it should be Radiant Flames imo.

Yea dude, aggro is gonna eat your deck for lunch Beard.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Twin is very fair though. It still gets played a lot, but it doesn't always win and it certainly does not dominate the format. Most recent twin decks don't always try to pull of the combo, and are going for a more tempo strategy where the opponent still has to deal with the possibility of the combo.

But Modern has become a very versatile format and multiple strategies are viable accros the board. Last GP and SCG Open only had one Twin in the Top 8 and a very wide range of decks in the Top 32. Play what you like to play is the most important part of Modern.

I can't play what I like to play because they banned Seething Song :'(

 

[Angry Grimace]

Yea dude, aggro is gonna eat your deck for lunch Beard.

I plugged the deck into deckstats and the starting hands I'm getting typically either do nothing until Turn 3 OR play Abzan Charm/Crackling Doom turn 3 if you crack a fetch for a basic to get an untapped land. And CD is more difficult since the only red sources are taplands but you also need B and W.

I can't play what I like to play because they banned Seething Song :'(

Correction: you can totally play storm, you can't masturbating with your cards and still win quite as often.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Yea dude, aggro is gonna eat your deck for lunch Beard.

I understand that. That's why I have a full playset of Flames in the board. I'm not super happy with Anticipate and I wish it was something I could play to fight aggro, but I haven't found that card yet and I'm really opposed to playing something that isn't colorless or blue on turns 1-2. I'm not completely against playing more three drops like Grimace is proposing with Flames, but if I can help it I'd rather have more two drops. They're really important for the mana in this deck.

I plugged the deck into deckstats and the starting hands I'm getting typically either do nothing until Turn 3 OR play Abzan Charm/Crackling Doom turn 3 if you crack a fetch for a basic to get an untapped land. And CD is more difficult since the only red sources are taplands but you also need B and W.

You have no plays until turn 4 most of the time

I guess Jace, Hangarback, Anticipate, Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm don't count as plays? The reason I set my deck up to only need one color before turn 3 is so that I can set up my fetches to play Crackling Doom and/or Abzan Charm on 3. That's why I have 2 Shambling Vents and no Lumbering Falls, cut the 2nd basic Island from your mana base and shifted two Windswept Heaths for Bloodstained Mires so I could fetch basic Swamp more often.

edit: Horribly Awry or Clash of Wills, maybe? Palace Familiar? Mirror Mockery? Frost Walker? ...Singing Bell Strike?

 

[Crocodile]

Dig Through Time ban means no more DTT in Legacy Cube

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";180181588]I understand that. That's why I have a full playset of Flames in the board. I'm not super happy with Anticipate and I wish it was something I could play to fight aggro, but I haven't found that card yet and I'm really opposed to playing something that isn't colorless or blue on turns 1-2. I'm not completely against playing more three drops like Grimace is proposing with Flames, but if I can help it I'd rather have more two drops. They're really important for the mana in this deck.



I guess Jace, Hangarback, Anticipate, Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm don't count as plays? The reason I set my deck up to only need one color before turn 3 is so that I can set up my fetches to play Crackling Doom and/or Abzan Charm on 3. That's why I have 2 Shambling Vents and no Lumbering Falls, cut the 2nd basic Island from your mana base and shifted two Windswept Heaths for Bloodstained Mires so I could fetch basic Swamp more often.

edit: Horribly Awry or Clash of Wills, maybe? Palace Familiar? Mirror Mockery? Frost Walker? ...Singing Bell Strike?[/QUOTE]

Hangarback is a horrible card in your deck to begin with, Jace is fine, and Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm both fuck you for pretty much every turn 4 you're gonna playafter that since you're almost assuredly playing another tapland and almost assuredly can't play whatever else is in your hand Turn 4, unless your fourth land is Polluted Delta AND you have Languish in your hand. Cracking a fetch for a basic on turn 3 to play a singleton removal spell and then play another tap land on Turn 4 is not actually a good-sounding play to me. You are overestimating how good the mana is. You can likely splash for an extra source to play BTL with full convergence; you likely cannot play actual 5 color "Best Cards in Standard at the Same Time." It's Christmasland.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

Frost Walker is good. Wild Slash is out of the discussion?

 

[Bandini]

Drafted BW lifegain Allies and people just kept passing me everything I wanted, ended up with an absurd list. 2x Bloodbond Vampire, 2x Drana's Emissary, 2x Malakir Familiar, Quarantine Field, Expedition Envoy, Kor Castigator, March from The Tomb, and just enough removal. Threw in Slab Hammer cause I decided not to splash a 3rd color, it was actually impressive.

 

[aidan]

A little late to the party, but this was by far my favourite card that I opened at prerelease:

So sexy.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Hangarback is a horrible card in your deck to begin with, Jace is fine, and Crackling Doom and Abzan Charm both fuck you for pretty much every turn 4 you're gonna playafter that since you're almost assuredly playing another tapland and almost assuredly can't play whatever else is in your hand Turn 4, unless your fourth land is Polluted Delta AND you have Languish in your hand. Cracking a fetch for a basic on turn 3 to play a singleton removal spell and then play another tap land on Turn 4 is not actually a good-sounding play to me. You are overestimating how good the mana is. You can likely splash for an extra source to play BTL with full convergence; you likely cannot play actual 5 color "Best Cards in Standard at the Same Time." It's Christmasland.

I can play hangarback no matter what colors I have on turn 2, at worst it's a double blocker and it scales through the late game I'm trying to get to while functioning as a mana sink for my slightly awkward land base. Also, you're saying that I can't play 5 colors then you want me to play Radiant Flames maindeck alongside Jace and Rhinos.

Frost Walker is good. Wild Slash is out of the discussion?

I'm trying not to play more than one color in the first two turns if I can help it, and red is a light splash.

 

[Angry Grimace]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";180185562]I can play hangarback no matter what colors I have on turn 2, at worst it's a double blocker and it scales through the late game I'm trying to get to while functioning as a mana sink for my slightly awkward land base. Also, you're saying that I can't play 5 colors then you want me to play Radiant Flames maindeck alongside Jace and Rhinos.

I'm trying not to play more than one color in the first two turns if I can help it, and red is a light splash.[/QUOTE]

Because if you're going to play all those colors with 90% taplands you need some kind of actual payoff for doing it in the early game.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Black Vise will see the following amount of play in Legacy : 0


If you have them sell now that they're spiked before the PT before people realize the card is absolutely ass and it go back to 0.2$.

 

[ElyrionX]

I need a copy of Ulamog for my EDH deck, should I preorder or wait?

 

[Jhriad]

I need a copy of Ulamog for my EDH deck, should I preorder or wait?

I've got three if you want one.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Black Vise will see the following amount of play in Legacy : 0


If you have them sell now that they're spiked before the PT before people realize the card is absolutely ass and it go back to 0.2$.

There are like 10 billion Black Vises, they're not going to be more than like .20 ever

 

[ElyrionX]

I've got three if you want one.

Thanks but I'm not in the US.

 

[The Technomancer]

I've got three if you want one.

I am in the US and am interested also. Going to wait to crack my Fat Pack this weekend just in case, but if you're still interested next week can I give you a PM?

 

[Wulfric]

Glad I outed my foil Dig when I had the chance. Too much value for it's own good.

Wow, that Forest looks good. I'll pick up foil basics in casual drafts any day. You can even pretend it's an expedition!

 

[Bandini]

I need a copy of Ulamog for my EDH deck, should I preorder or wait?

Probably wait a short time, it could be viable in standard after Oath of the Gatewatch, but probably not until then. Doubt it will see play in other competitive formats

 

[Jhriad]

I am in the US and am interested also. Going to wait to crack my Fat Pack this weekend just in case, but if you're still interested next week can I give you a PM?

Sure thing. I cracked three in my prereleases and I was going to just Pucatrade them away anyways. I've also got two Kiora's, Underwhatever Goober, Eternal Witness Part Deux, and some other stuff.

 

[G.ZZZ]

There are like 10 billion Black Vises, they're not going to be more than like .20 ever

Beta have spiked to 50$ or so.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Beta have spiked to 50$ or so.

Beta anything is $50 that's not a reliable indicator of anything. Case in point: Beta basic forest costs $6.

 

[Ashodin]

Sure thing. I cracked three in my prereleases and I was going to just Pucatrade them away anyways. I've also got two Kiora's, Underwhatever Goober, Eternal Witness Part Deux, and some other stuff.

Seconded on that second Ulamog. I also live in the US!

 

[piratepwnsninja]

So I went 1-4 yesterday in the event I played in. Had a lot of really close game, and had the best tiebreaker record. Ran RW Ally with a splash of black. I really didn't have much to work with, and I was actually surprised how close I was able to keep games. The last two games were the worst. I had FIVE lands out at the end of each game. I was running EIGHTEEN. Love the Ally stuff, though. Reminds me a bit of Slivers...and I loved Slivers.

 

[kirblar]

There is no "issue." Twin is a fair deck.

So fair, it won the most busted PT in history.

There's no excuse for SSG being legal though.

 

[Angry Grimace]

So fair, it won the most busted PT in history.

There's no excuse for SSG being legal though.

All the decks it enables suck, that's why its legal.

 

[f0rk]

The last two games were the worst. I had FIVE lands out at the end of each game. I was running EIGHTEEN.

If your deck struggles on 5 lands it's built wrong

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

If fat packs didn't have full art lands, I wouldn't touch this set with a ten feet pole (bar Ulamog).

Also, I don't know how I feel about Duel Commander switching to Vancouver mulligan Rule. I understand the reasoning (top control decks like Geist and Tasigur getting too big of an advantage) but I'm not sure how it will all play out.

 

[blindrocket]

If fat packs didn't have full art lands, I wouldn't touch this set with a ten feet pole (bar Ulamog).

Also, I don't know how I feel about Duel Commander switching to Vancouver mulligan Rule. I understand the reasoning (top control decks like Geist and Tasigur getting too big of an advantage) but I'm not sure how it will all play out.

I read about that on FB a little bit but I need to read more. I'm unfamiliar with Vancouver Mulligan.

RIP my foil DTT.

Does it even see Vintage play?

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Does it even see Vintage play?

It sure does.

 

[Hecatonchires Custom]

I read about that on FB a little bit but I need to read more. I'm unfamiliar with Vancouver Mulligan.

RIP my foil DTT.

Does it even see Vintage play?

It's the same as constructed formats, mulligan = new hand -1. Scry 1 rule also applies. Regular commander still has partial mulligan though.

 

[blindrocket]

Nobody commented so I'm posting this one more time.

I saw this on Perilous Research, what do you think?

Planeswalker (8)

• 3 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
• 3 Ob Nixilis Reignited
• 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
• 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Creature (18)

• 4 Knight of the White Orchid
• 4 Hangarback Walker
• 2 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
• 4 Siege Rhino
• 2 Den Protector
• 2 Anafenza, the Foremost

Sorcery (1)

• 1 Ruinous Path

Instant (5)

• 4 Abzan Charm
• 1 Dromoka's Command

Land (28)

• 4 Shambling Vent
• 4 Sandsteppe Citadel
• 4 Caves of Koilos
• 4 Llanowar Wastes
• 4 Canopy Vista
• 4 Windswept Heath
• 2 Plains
• 2 Forest

Sideboard (15)

• 1 Den Protector
• 2 Dromoka's Command
• 3 Tragic Arrogance
• 1 Read the Bones
• 4 Duress
• 2 Crux of Fate
• 2 Grip of Desolation

It sure does.

Sweet.

 

[Etrian Oddity]

So in the interest of my friend who's getting into Magic, I was checking out recent event/clash packs, and good lord WotC is really putting value in them. I knew the new Tasigur deck is stocked with value, but even the Origins clash pack is worth like 2x its msrp price.

 

[GoutPatrol]

Why not just ban Splinter Twin? Banning Deceiver would do nothing but shift the issue to Bell-Ringer.

Banning Exarch would force Twin to:

Automatically play another color (green or white for Bell Ringer or Bounding Krasis) which only tap/untapped creatures, not permanents. They can't tap down your one open mana with those and combo out.

Play higher mana creatures to combo out (Resto-Kiki.) which is still more disruptible with more ways to kill it.

They won't ban Twin, it was in MM2015. But making combo decks less versatile is better for the format.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Banning Exarch would force Twin to:

Automatically play another color (green or white for Bell Ringer or Bounding Krasis) which only tap/untapped creatures, not permanents. They can't tap down your one open mana with those and combo out.

Play higher mana creatures to combo out (Resto-Kiki.) which is still more disruptible with more ways to kill it.

They won't ban Twin, it was in MM2015. But making combo decks less versatile is better for the format.

Bounding Krasis wouldn't see play against Bellringer because Bellringer doesn't die to Bolt and having all of your combo pieces die to bolt is pretty bad.

But what can you even do with one open mana against a player that's about to resolve Twin? The only thing that comes to mind is Path and why wouldn't you just tap the land in response to the Exarch trigger and Path it immediately?

 

[Firemind]

holy crap mono red is terrible in legacy cube

mental note: force blue every time

 

[Angry Grimace]

holy crap mono red is terrible in legacy cube

mental note: force blue every time

Didn't Buehler take all the mono-red stuff out in the March iteration?

 

[f0rk]

Bounding Krasis wouldn't see play against Bellringer because Bellringer doesn't die to Bolt and having all of your combo pieces die to bolt is pretty bad.

But what can you even do with one open mana against a player that's about to resolve Twin? The only thing that comes to mind is Path and why wouldn't you just tap the land in response to the Exarch trigger and Path it immediately?

Bounding Krasis sees play now. It doesn't die to electrolyze / kolagans command and hits pretty hard alongside Goyf

 

[Angry Grimace]

Bounding Krasis sees play now. It doesn't die to electrolyze / kolagans command and hits pretty hard alongside Goyf

That's because decks can still play Deceiver Exarch. If Exarch was banned and I was currently on TarmoTwin I would probably just remove the combo entirely and play it mainboard the way current Twin sometimes played post-board.

If I was on Grixis Twin I'd probably just switch to Jeskai Twin because at least white has a lot of great sideboard options plus the option to play a replacement for Exarch.

 

[Firemind]

Didn't Buehler take all the mono-red stuff out in the March iteration?

no sulfuric vortex
no shrine of burning rage
no fireblast
no eidolon of the great revel
no ball lightning

i don't even know what you're supposed to take if you want to force mono red

i mean i took a chandra's phoenix over basically nothing but that's it

 

[shrapnelmagnet]

Black Vise is now $3.50+ USD on MTGO. Was 10c on the 24th.

 

[Firemind]

oh yeah

searing blaze and searing blood are also absent from the cube

idk ¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Cubes need red decks. You don't want them to be so good that you're supposed to force them, but I honestly think it throws the balance off if mono red isn't even viable.

 

[bigkrev]

http://blogs.magicjudges.org/telliott/2015/09/28/bfz-policy-changes/

So, they made some tournament policy changes, and highlighted some rules loopholes that they closed- It was technically legal to use any of the Prerelease promos in legacy and vintage last week due to the rule changes they made to allow the Expeditions legal, it's now actually illegal to bribe a judge (you couldn't bribe your opponent before, but nothing in the rules prevented you from bribing a judge), and 1996 World Championship is now banned in Vintage.

The 2 takeaways that are actually relevent to players from the piece:

The Head Judge now has the option to ignore incorrect basic lands on a limited decklist where the intent is obvious. This pretty much exclusively applies to something like a player marking “8 swamps, 9 islands” in a U/W deck. You now have the ability to say “well, that should obviously be 8 plains” and let it go. If there’s any chance of ambiguity (say 8 swamps, 9 islands, 1 plains in a UWb deck), you should apply the penalty as normal.

and

DEC now applies to situations in which a player put a card in their hand that they were supposed to first reveal in order to prove that putting it there was legal. That one is straightforward. The player reveals their hand and the opponent chooses a card to be shuffled back into the library. Note that in this, and all other situations where this correction is used, the action that led to the problem is not repeated. So, if I activate Domri Rade, look at the top card and put it into my hand, a card from my hand goes back into the library, but I don’t get to try again with the next card. Moving this to DEC also means that the can’t-verify-legality upgrade in GRV becomes explicitly about how to handle illegally-played morphs.

DEC now also covers situations where a player is instructed to do something with the top N cards of their library and does it for too many. So, for example, I cast Dig Through Time and take 8 cards off the top of my library. We apply the DEC fix, but we apply it to that set of cards! So, you reveal the 8, your opponent selects one of them to be shuffled back in, and you continue resolving Dig Through Time as normal.

I'm a big fan of both changes.

its kirblar tho

that's like relying on bigkrev for an honest evaluation of hexproof

HEY

 

[red13th]

no sulfuric vortex
no shrine of burning rage
no fireblast
no eidolon of the great revel
no ball lightning

i don't even know what you're supposed to take if you want to force mono red

i mean i took a chandra's phoenix over basically nothing but that's it

Yeah the three first cards in particular are glaring omissions, not sure why cripple red to that extent.

 

[Toxi]

Yeah the three first cards in particular are glaring omissions, not sure why cripple red to that extent.

Because a lot of people hate mono-Red in cube.

 

[Infinite Stars]

I just realized that Knight of the White Orchid can fetch Tango Lands. Here's to a Mono White brew splashing UG!

 

[Firemind]

Because a lot of people hate mono-Red in cube.

i mean

people also don't like turn two/three griselbrand

or t3 jtms

or t2 bitterblossom

or consecrated sphinx

or upheaval

 

[A Serious Man]

Nobody commented so I'm posting this one more time.

Does this really need Ugin in the main? I'd put another Sorin in for his +1, eight painlands and four fetches in a deck absolutely stuffed with double color casting costs is going to hurt.