Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
It's a cool card but it's not a fair card.
Should a creature really be a counter or a bolt, or a cantrip, or a command,... at instant speed with a 2/1 body
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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It's a cool card but it's not a fair card.
Should a creature really be a counter or a bolt, or a cantrip, or a command,... at instant speed with a 2/1 body
divisionbyzorro
Member
kirblar evaluates Magic from the perspective of a designer more than he does the perspective of a player.
Development goofs in terms of power level are fun for players - well, they're fun for the subset of players who like that sort of thing. For example, Storm is a gigantic development mistake. It's also my favorite type of deck to play by a country mile.
I would argue that Magic is better for having mistakes in power level. I also think its much better for Magic when those mistakes are truly accidental mistakes or misjudging power level. Treasure Cruise, for example, is a really really sweet card. I love that spell so so much. It's a massive screw-up in terms of power level. I love seeing that sort of thing happen to Magic. What I don't like is when they deliberately try to build broken shit - see True-Name Nemesis.
Broken cards are inevitably going to escape through the doors of WotC. It's exciting when they do. It's important to understand what makes them broken and try not to repeat those mistakes, but it's also important not to get caught up in them and see those mistakes as detrimental.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
It's a card game. If people like playing with it and it's not destructive to the game, then it's not a mistake. A mistake is something like Treasure Cruise which is destructive to the game is is banned before it even rotates out of standard. A mistake is Memory Jar, which was banned before release is a mistake. A mistake isn't a card that is powerful, yet hardly ubiquitous in any format.
Snapcaster is a card pushed to the limit of power, but it's not a mistake by any real definition of the word as it pertains to the game.
We're well beyond the Craw Wurm days. Every creature that is playable is a creature + spell combination.
Don't get the problem people have with Snapcaster Mage, other than its color.
I'm honestly not sure if I still believe MaRo's narrative when it comes to these mistakes.
I'm honestly not sure if I still believe MaRo's narrative when it comes to these mistakes.
Snapcaster is a great card, but I would have rather seen it as UU or in red to make it less prevalent and powerful
It's insane to me how people can't separate the two. :-/
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Unless they are tarmo.
Anyways it's not the combination of a creature + a spell but a creature + any instant or sorcery spell in your graveyard at instant speed. It's the versatility that makes it so good and not completely fair.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
I'm bad mythics and false scarcity pricing. Others are power levels. Etc.
I like Siege Rhino, wish I had room for it in my Cube.
FRF was great because of how they made versatile wedge cards like Tasigur/Warden of the First Tree (playable in two guilds and in a wedge instead of requiring wedge mana). I wish they made the same for shards, but if they did it would probably be in a supplemental set and not modern legal
FRF was great because of how they made versatile wedge cards like Tasigur/Warden of the First Tree (playable in two guilds and in a wedge instead of requiring wedge mana). I wish they made the same for shards, but if they did it would probably be in a supplemental set and not modern legal
the cube has both armageddon and ravages of war.
it's all subjective innit. people like to play consecrated sphinx and draw a lot of cards, which is sweet, but also dumb because it requires little thought. upheaval? sweet but dumb as hell with any kind of ramping.
i think the reason mono red did well in past cube iterations is because it's piss easy to draft. like, any dumbass could do it. you then proceed to pwn because no one else in the draft bloody knows how to draft a proper strategy. they think "oh man this six drop is pretty sweet" and promptly gloss over ramp or ways to stay alive like wall of omens/blossoms, obstinate baloth, cheap conditional removal. or they draft five different combo enabler/payoff cards instead of focusing on one or two. or they try to draft storm and fail epically. like me.
i'm all for dumbing down mono red if it's parasitic, but it's not. it's basically unplayable in its current state.
divisionbyzorro
Member
*shrug* The MTGO cube gets held to a different standard because it's the one cube that everybody has access to. Otherwise yes - I agree.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Totes agree. Put cards together that you want to play with, balance the colors out so everybody isn't mono the same deck and have fun.
lol that was so bad. Did they change it?
There are definitely rules to cube if you want a fun, balanced cube that people will want to play again. I have played some miserable cubes.
I wouldn't say there are universal rules for building a cube, but, just like any set, there are strong guidelines for developing it and making sure it's balanced.
I tend to prefer cubes to have some sort of gimmick. I do have one 'regular' cube, but all of my other cubes have some sort of hook. I have a cube that's all about color (lots of hybrid cards and cards that care about color). I have a "draft format cube" where you actually build packs out of 1 rare, 4 uncommons and 10 commons. I'm working on a 'tiny' cube where everything has CMC 3 or less and a "Black & White" cube where every card must have either black or white mana in its color identity.
I've played powered cube, which is a lot of fun as long as you don't do it too often. I've also played bad cube; a cube that purposely includes awful cards like takklemaggot; and that's also fun in its own way.
There's so many different ways to build cubes; that's what makes cube so great to begin with.
I tend to prefer cubes to have some sort of gimmick. I do have one 'regular' cube, but all of my other cubes have some sort of hook. I have a cube that's all about color (lots of hybrid cards and cards that care about color). I have a "draft format cube" where you actually build packs out of 1 rare, 4 uncommons and 10 commons. I'm working on a 'tiny' cube where everything has CMC 3 or less and a "Black & White" cube where every card must have either black or white mana in its color identity.
I've played powered cube, which is a lot of fun as long as you don't do it too often. I've also played bad cube; a cube that purposely includes awful cards like takklemaggot; and that's also fun in its own way.
There's so many different ways to build cubes; that's what makes cube so great to begin with.
I'm talking about people who expect all powered cubes to play X way, for example. Those expecting cookie-cutter stuff.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
My cube rule is "force Tooth and Nail"
This in fact works all of the time in Holiday Cube, I have a pretty good record in Holiday Cube :lol
This in fact works all of the time in Holiday Cube, I have a pretty good record in Holiday Cube :lol
divisionbyzorro
Member
There are really only two rules for Cubes:
1) Your cube's gimmick should be able to be explained in one sentence.
2) Your cube shouldn't have any traps (i.e., if your cube can't really support Storm, don't put Tendrils of Agony in it).
1) Your cube's gimmick should be able to be explained in one sentence.
2) Your cube shouldn't have any traps (i.e., if your cube can't really support Storm, don't put Tendrils of Agony in it).
Ah, I get what you're saying. I can see it both ways, there are certain cards that people come to expect but as long as the power level is relatively close I think it's okay to stray from the norm. Blue is super easy to make oppressive and the best color and probably the biggest mistake most cube builders fall into initially for example.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Eureka and Show and Tell are traps, but they keep them in because players like drafting them even when they lose.
Man, I got a ton of Pucapoints for those stupid dual lands that are going to be like $4 in a few weeks.
divisionbyzorro
Member
They're traps in the sense that you're not likely to win when you play them, but you can absolutely draft an awesome Eureka/Show and Tell deck that does what its supposed to do. It's almost impossible to draft a playable Tendrils deck outside of Power cube.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I once played a guy who successfully drafted Storm and beat me in a VMA draft. He had Mox Sapphire in his pool. Fuck that guy.
Neutrality
Member
Where do you guys do these cube drafts?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Legacy Cube is on MTGO from now until BFZ starts on October 12th
divisionbyzorro
Member
Magic Online (MTGO). MTGO gets new sets 2-3 weeks after the paper pre-release; in order to fill gap, they run cube drafts during that period. So right now you can draft cube on MTGO.
"God's Beard!"
Member
One word, ideally. So if you've got "Vampire Cube", people know to play something else.
You draft Show and Tell as an additional way to dump Emrakul/Griselbrand into play, not as a build-around card. Show and Tell isn't Tinker. Eureka is just a bad Channel, but sometimes you need a bad Channel.
VMA has High Tide, so not that surprising.
acheron_xl
Member
I only have one rule when it comes to the MTGO cube:
Play Armageddon and Ravages of War every time.
Every time I don't, I do miserably.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I once drafted a monstrosity in Holiday Cube with Emrakul, Progenitus and Tooth and Nail. 3-0, baby.
Mirari's Wake is another pet card I tend to force if I see it early.
Last time I cubed I drafted both Eureka and Channel with Kozilek and Simic Sky Swallower as two fatties. One game I played Eureka and my opponent had Emrakrul so I lost that but swept every other game.
Of course, Tezzeret 1 and Time Vault in different packs both wheeled so I drafted then and got free wins that way, but that's totally their fault for letting it happen.
divisionbyzorro
Member
In my favorite Cube win ever, my opponent used Natural Order to put in Progenitus with me on 20 and him on 18. I attacked him with Tradewind Rider and ninjitsu'd a Sakashima's Student when he didn't (couldn't) block.
SigmasonicX
Member
With Turn Against, I hope we start getting more instant Act of Treason / Threaten effects in red. There is some decent design space there. Some ideas:
Sudden Betrayal - 2R
Instant
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains first strike until end of turn.
The neat thing about this is that giving the creature first strike actually makes the effect weaker, since you can only destroy one of your opponent's creatures, and thus it can appear at a lower cost. It doesn't give the creature haste, so you can't attack with it, but there is the benefit of untapping your own creature and giving it first strike.
Mirroring Flames - 1R
Instant
Put a token that's a copy of target attacking creature onto the battlefield. Exile that token at the beginning of the next end step.
Useful against (or with) Siege Rhino.
Battle Craze - 3R
Instant
Gain control of target creature that is not attacking or blocking until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
Sudden Betrayal - 2R
Instant
Gain control of target creature until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains first strike until end of turn.
The neat thing about this is that giving the creature first strike actually makes the effect weaker, since you can only destroy one of your opponent's creatures, and thus it can appear at a lower cost. It doesn't give the creature haste, so you can't attack with it, but there is the benefit of untapping your own creature and giving it first strike.
Mirroring Flames - 1R
Instant
Put a token that's a copy of target attacking creature onto the battlefield. Exile that token at the beginning of the next end step.
Useful against (or with) Siege Rhino.
Battle Craze - 3R
Instant
Gain control of target creature that is not attacking or blocking until end of turn. Untap that creature. It gains haste until end of turn.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
acheron_xl
Member
I adore Order into Progenitus. If I'm G/x, I'll sometimes snag a Progenitus that goes by, just cuz.
My favorite ever play in cube was the T1 - Swamp, Dark Rit, Entomb (Griselbrand), Exhume. I like to be the nice guy when I'm playing EDH, but I'll be the biggest asshole in a draft.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Even I have to admit Phyrexian mana was touchy. I'm glad we got it, but I know we're never going to get it again at any sort of playable level. That's probably for the best, but damn if I don't still love Mutagenic Growth. Nobody ever expects Mutagenic Growth.
I think we'll get it playable again, but holy shit just keep it to artifacts- you can balance it on permanents far, far better.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Compromise: Artifact spells!
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
My inner self is screaming right now but on the other hand they did double faced cards so who knows
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
just play a different game where you can make new rules up
and cards full of text with no pictures
I mean, the justification for tribal being a supertype was always dumb to me for this reason.
"But creature types aren't anything else's types!" YOU JUST MADE THAT UP
acheron_xl
Member
I hope the Phyrexian mana artifact spells you speak of have Devoid, or else it isn't even worth doing.
Joe Molotov
Member
With Phyrexian Mana I thought putting it on Instants/Sorceries was a mistake.
With Devoid I thought putting it on permanents was a mistake.
At least I'm internally consistent.
Magic was a mistake.
Yeah, that's my entire point.
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