Terrible reason IMO. They make all red cards do the same shit and they cut the better ones from their cube.
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Magic: the Gathering - Battle for Zendikar |OT| Lands matter (but nothing else does)
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
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Terrible reason IMO. They make all red cards do the same shit and they cut the better ones from their cube.
First off, Ball Lightning is terrible, its not a card you should be care about even if you like Mono-Red. Secondly, the impetus to nerf Red in the Cube was based on data (it was the most winning deck in the Cube by far) and because a lot of people I'm sure Randy listens to (like Marshall) don't like Mono-Red. A lot of people I come across want to do "sweet things" in Cube and Mono-Red isn't "sweet" to them. Not giving an opinion, just laying out what happened.
Joe Molotov
Member
Get rekt, Tom Chanpheng.
blindrocket
Member
That's a good point. It feels top heavy with all of those high CMC cards but I haven't played Standard in so long. Even when I used to, I was more into low CMC Rakdos Aggro or Selesnya with mana dorks.
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So, the end of Rosewater's article today makes me wonder if they're going to announce Conspiracy 2 or something similar next week.
It seems like odd timing with the new set just coming out, so I don't know that it'll amount to anything.
For reference, his closing line last time in the article before "Conspiracy week" was this:
It seems like odd timing with the new set just coming out, so I don't know that it'll amount to anything.
For reference, his closing line last time in the article before "Conspiracy week" was this:
Boogalogist
Member
Not bad. Pretty nifty. Too bad I only play EDH, and it's not very EDH friendly.
There was just a development article about this.
The summary is that red's strategic focus has always been, well, red deck wins -- play some mediocre creatures, maybe some dragons, and a big pile of direct damage. Because red mostly sucks at everything else! When the game started, red was good at goblins, dragons, fireballs, flipping coins, land destruction, and screwing over blue, and the last three things no longer get put in sets. So that doesn't leave a lot of breadth.
The problem is that this is a difficult strategic focus to balance effectively, because direct damage, like countermagic, gets unfun fast if it's powered up. So basically Wizards tends to err on the side of weakening direct damage and as a result red doesn't get to shine. (And of course as creatures continue to get stronger the color that gets cheap but lousy creatures that you're supposed to use direct damage to protect gets worse.)
They're theoretically working on carving out a red identity that's separate from direct damage -- card selection (looting), fast mana, temporary control, etc. It will probably be a lot like the multi-year process where blue went from being the color of Counterspell, Capsize, and Flying Man to having Cancel, but getting Invisible Stalker and Jeskai Elder in exchange.
Boogalogist
Member
Snapcaster should really have been red...
welp managed to win anyway. drawing cards is pretty gud. never got to cast ugin orz.
red is the red-headed stepchild of magic. no one wants her around, so they have to make her do chores and work to get anything done.
red is the red-headed stepchild of magic. no one wants her around, so they have to make her do chores and work to get anything done.
People keep saying this because rosewater suggested it, and it would have been even worse if you just got to play Snappy for free in burn decks.
edit: The idea that "draft will make it better" re: complexity issues for younger/newer players with BFZ is actually absurd. Draft adds layers of difficulty.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
snapcaster remand isn't obnoxious? Snapcaster cryptic?
Bolt Snap Bolt no longer requiring a second color is not really a world I want to live in.
Who is arguing this? I don't see anyone in this thread saying that? I mean, at least Ingest/Process might actually work in Draft but I dunno how that would solve complexity issues, flavor issues, how the Eldrazi aren't "scary" anymore, etc.
It's not aimed at the thread, haha. Just seen people notice kids were having issues with the set (least surprising thing ever) and people thinking this set's issues will be resolved via draft.
This set is way closer to MM draft than anything else. That's like, the opposite of what NWO is supposed to be doing.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
If it would make Burn too strong it'd get banned eventually anyway, I don't really see a difference on whether it's obnoxious in blue or red other than making burn more expensive.
Anyways, did my first and last legacy cube draft for now, went 1-2. Drafted red green after starting with a natural order and getting an atarka and a few mana dorks and Thrun singlehandedly made me win against a control deck.
2 round was a funny deck UB control, he had a bunch of token generators and opposition after which he just tapped me down every single turn game 1, game 2 I was just unable to do anything against his counters.
3rd round was against UWb who drafted with the same idea as me, cheating in big creatures but he was not only able to hardcast elesh norn when I was about to kill him he summoning trapped into play Emrakul to block my Stormbreath that was about to kill him. Game 2 he tooth and nailed both of them again from his hand.
40 player points are disappointing but I had my fun and never really planned on playing in the first place just signed up for the player rewards from the community cup.
Finally opened my prize packs from 2 prereleases. The odds are amazing on how much I open up the same bulk rares with a limited amount of packs. Like maybe I wouldn't mind as much if they were different bulk rares. Nope! Same one!
But I added up all my money cards and surprisingly opened over $120 in value. I expect the value on these cards to drop though. Like is Ulamog really gonna see play at 10cmc? And will Ob Nixilis retain its $20 value? Its first two abilities are pretty amazing.
But I added up all my money cards and surprisingly opened over $120 in value. I expect the value on these cards to drop though. Like is Ulamog really gonna see play at 10cmc? And will Ob Nixilis retain its $20 value? Its first two abilities are pretty amazing.
There was one young girl at prerelease that thought devoid meant you could use any color to play them since they were colorless; she was running a BW deck full of blue red and green Eldrazi.
Ooccoo
Member
Ob Nixilis is low at $20. Mark my words.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
My store was jam packed with kids (seriously probably like 40% of the participants were under 14) and from what I saw they all understood things pretty well
Infinite Stars
Member
I'm probably alone, but I can see some of the processors seeing play in Standard. There's definitely an issue limited wise with how little cards in the set can exile, but Standard has a fair number of exile effects in Instants/Sorceries.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Well more than that its fueled by your opponent Delving
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
He was at 8 a couple weeks ago, faced him once at my pre and he didn't seem too impressive for limited
SigmasonicX
Member
If red-blue (plus any other colors) is a thing, then I'd expect the counter processor to at least see sideboard play.
Infinite Stars
Member
Not just Delving though. Here's the list of non Delve cards in Standard post Rotation that have an Exile clause/ability for your opponents:
Abzan Charm
Anafenza 1.0
Blessed Reincarnation
Burn Away
Erase
Fate Forgotten
Hallowed Moonlight(Conditional)
Infinite Obliteration
Kheru Lich Lord
Kheru Spell Snatcher
Mardu Woe-Reaper
Radiant Purge
Rally the Ancestors
Reality Shift
Utter End
It's not a fantastic selection, but there's a bunch of decent cards in here that can work really well with the Processors I think. Granted, I'm more a johnny then a spike, so be advised on that, but I feel like I could make a half decent deck with some of these and the processors.
Totally, the counter one feels almost the right cost.
"God's Beard!"
Member
What world do you want to live in?
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Everything in the entire set is overpriced, including Ob.
There's no way he's overpriced at $20. Outside of the release window that is a $10 card.
piratepwnsninja
Member
It was more that I was only able to keep up with blockers for so long, and I was playing people who apparently had great Eldrazi draws in their pool. So eventually the board state just favored them, and with only 5 mana, I was being forced to only drop a single ally in a turn, or save my mana for removal/protection on their turn. It certain could operate at 5 mana, and I stayed in those games for a good while, but it simply did not favor me with the decks I was facing, as I was having to play very defensively, which isn't what that deck liked to do.
charlequin
Banned
Nothing but Gideon and Ulamog in this set is gonna stay over ten bucks for long.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Sorin was like $30 when Khans came out and plummeted in weeks. Ob is the same except I don't think he'll be $30 ever.
Etrian Oddity
Member
Khans standard had like 12 planeswalkers though, I'm believing they're gonna somehow use the fewer amount to try to justify a higher price.
I don't doubt red would have the best record considering the decks people end up with when half the table is forcing blue, and I still think it's a bad reason. But they are right to cater to the people who actually play their cube, I don't and I wouldn't even if they had viable mono red.
I hope they don't have Armageddon/Ravages of War if they are so concerned about having fun doing """"sweet things""" in cube though, otherwise their reasoning is disingenuous.
Snapcaster Mage should've been red, and not just because MaRo said so but because the card it's based on originally is red.
By making it red you make it harder to do bolt snap bolt and most URx decks are doing that anyway but have better targets for things like card draw or counterspell or both.
By making it red you make it harder to do bolt snap bolt and most URx decks are doing that anyway but have better targets for things like card draw or counterspell or both.
Been playtesting Sneak and Show some online to decide if this is what I want to move into for the foreseeable future. After playing omnitell for a bit, the sneak attack version just doesn't feel as powerful as I remember. Good thing though is it'll take a lot of players to readjust since they can't just rely on holding hate in their hand to combat show and tell. Leyline of Sanctity will become a good sideboard card again if those UBx delver decks just replace dig with hymn. Same with misdirection.
But fuck having to buy scalding tarns just to play that one basic mountain!!!
Regretting selling off aggro loam since this digless future will improve that deck as well as every other non-blue.
But fuck having to buy scalding tarns just to play that one basic mountain!!!
Regretting selling off aggro loam since this digless future will improve that deck as well as every other non-blue.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
That'd have made it fair
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
Why do you people hate any card that is not shit? Snapcaster is powerful, but it's fine. Not every card has to be this dull ass tableau of barely playable and boring design. Anything that isn't a vanilla creature gets talked about like it's Black Lotus or Ancestral Recall. People whine about things that barely mattered like Annihilation and we get fucking Ingest as a result.
Snapcaster is fine. Twin is fine. Infect is fine. Three mana, fringe playable counterspells are fine. Siege Rhino sucks ass but is fine.
Chill.
Snapcaster is fine. Twin is fine. Infect is fine. Three mana, fringe playable counterspells are fine. Siege Rhino sucks ass but is fine.
Chill.
WanderingWind
Mecklemore Is My Favorite Wrapper
So? It's literally had flash the entire time we've known about it and it hasn't ruined Magic.
And it's still a mistake.
Yes, mistakes are powerful OP cards that people like playing. Still doesn't make them not mistakes.
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