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[charlequin]

I'm guessing that the main self-discard outlets will be red looters (tap, discard a card, draw a card) and enter-the-battlefield abilities like that wolf spirit that was spoiled. I can't imagine they'll include activated abilities that just have discarding as a cost anymore.

Yep, I think the last creature with a no-strings-attached discard ability was Oona's Prowler back in Lorwyn. I would expect a decent number of mana-plus-discard or tap-plus-discard abilities though.

By the way, just to clear things up, if a spell or ability has you discard a card then do something else (i.e. discard a card, draw a card, discarding not part of the cost), do you pay the madness cost during the resolution of the spell (i.e. before you draw a card)? And does the madness card resolve before the rest of that spell resolves, or does it go on the stack?

I believe it should be a replacement ability that happens immediately (discarding into exile) and a triggered ability which would go on the stack and resolve after whatever current spell or ability was done resolving.

On another note, the fact that investigate incidentally produces artifacts is yet another sign that Kaladesh is up next.

Also would explain why there's a big Equipment subtheme in BFZ despite very few (and no good) artifacts in the block.

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm guessing that the main self-discard outlets will be red looters (tap, discard a card, draw a card) and enter-the-battlefield abilities like that wolf spirit that was spoiled. I can't imagine they'll include activated abilities that just have discarding as a cost anymore.

By the way, just to clear things up, if a spell or ability has you discard a card then do something else (i.e. discard a card, draw a card, discarding not part of the cost), do you pay the madness cost during the resolution of the spell (i.e. before you draw a card)? And does the madness card resolve before the rest of that spell resolves, or does it go on the stack?

On another note, the fact that investigate incidentally produces artifacts is yet another sign that Kaladesh is up next.

The main madness enabler will be Jace.

 

[Santiako]

Odyssey block is my favorite, absolute favorite

The post apocalyptic setting with the pit fights and shit, Cephalids, Red Hero, villain was blue (as it rightly should be), etc. Shit was baller.

Weird new mechanics, Torment being almost fully black, Judgment swinging back toward white and green, fuck yeah.

I'm with you, Odyssey block is the shit. What a weird, awesome block.

 

[charlequin]

Do you have a link to some SOI promo art?

Spoiler

You might be right but let me have this

 

[bigkrev]

Huh, Sam Black was apparently on Lantern, went 8-2 with the deck

 

[Angry Grimace]

I'm guessing that the main self-discard outlets will be red looters (tap, discard a card, draw a card) and enter-the-battlefield abilities like that wolf spirit that was spoiled. I can't imagine they'll include activated abilities that just have discarding as a cost anymore.

By the way, just to clear things up, if a spell or ability has you discard a card then do something else (i.e. discard a card, draw a card, discarding not part of the cost), do you pay the madness cost during the resolution of the spell (i.e. before you draw a card)? And does the madness card resolve before the rest of that spell resolves, or does it go on the stack?

On another note, the fact that investigate incidentally produces artifacts is yet another sign that Kaladesh is up next.

It creates a trigger which requires you to make a choice so you finish resolving the current ability then choose whether to pay the madness cost or put it in the graveyard.

 

[divisionbyzorro]

Yep, I think the last creature with a no-strings-attached discard ability was Oona's Prowler back in Lorwyn. I would expect a decent number of mana-plus-discard or tap-plus-discard abilities though.

Theros had one - Erebos's Emissary

 

[Santiako]

He's even looking at some clue thing in the booster art. Jace, Ace Detective confirmed.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Got enough tickets from selling my mythics to do a draft so I entered an 8-4 and went 0-1 with UG support aggro(3 netcaster spider, 2 sweep away, 2 fight cards, membrane, 3 invoker, gravity negator + pathwarden wombo combo and the tajuru warcaller). Just a terrible day for me and limited. This is the most I've lost straight in a long time, geez. I thought both decks were pretty good, too.

Oh well, time to uninstall MODO again.

What did you face. Support agro?

Nah, Jund stuff. Kozilek's Return mirror match, except he had big enough creatures for the return part. I saved my Dragonmaster Outcast until he had used multiple removal spells and it was the last card in my hand, but he was still able to kill it.

 

[bigkrev]

I'm with you, Odyssey block is the shit. What a weird, awesome block.

Some real good bulk rares in that set

 

["God's Beard!"]

Lantern is horrible against Eldrazi you're just in denial.

 

[Ashodin]

Some real good bulk rares in that set

you could totally reprint mudhole

 

[divisionbyzorro]

A meta of Lantern vs Eldrazi sounds perfect.

 

[charlequin]

Theros had one - Erebos's Emissary

Creature cards only!

He's even looking at some clue thing in the booster art. Beleren, Jace Detective confirmed.

FTFY

 

["God's Beard!"]

A meta of Lantern vs Eldrazi sounds perfect.

"In the interest of competitive diversity, Splinter Twin is banned from Modern."

*Next Modern PT has 6 Eldrazi decks and 2 Affinity in the top 8*

 

[The Technomancer]

I was wondering if they would change Madness's rules and they did. Madness now no longer gives you the option to discard normally. You are required to discard to exile then immediately decide to pay for it or put it in your graveyard. The older current ability is as follows: "If a player would discard this card, that player discards it, but may exile it instead of putting it into his or her graveyard” and “When this card is exiled this way, its owner may cast it by paying [cost] rather than paying its mana cost. If that player doesn’t, he or she puts this card into his or her graveyard." The reminder text on the new cards: "If you discard this card, discard it into exile. When you do, cast it for its madness cost or put it into your graveyard."

Hm what are the actual repercussions of that, besides consolidating the text?

 

[Crocodile]

You could discard a card, then play a land, then play the Madness card

Huh. That IS weird as hell. I'm not seeing potential for abuse off the top of my head but I certainly see how that could make for an occasional weird situation or someone getting "rules lawyer-ed" out of a game.

Yep, I think the last creature with a no-strings-attached discard ability was Oona's Prowler back in Lorwyn. I would expect a decent number of mana-plus-discard or tap-plus-discard abilities though.

If WOTC wants Madness to see any constructed play (and I assume they do since its one of the key mechanics of the set), they are going to need to print good discard outlets. It doesn't matter if Madness gives your card a 2 mana discount if you have to pay 3 mana into all your discard outlets :/

I also hope they avoid cards like Dark Withering - good if Madness-ed out but unplayable without an outlet. Fiery Temper is like the perfect balance between an excellent cost to power ratio if you madness it out but if you have to cast it the regular way its not embarrassing. Arrogant/Reckless Wurm were pretty good too though 5 mana for a 4/4 trample isn't as good as it was in the past. Basking Rootwalla and Circular Logic were clearly the two best madness card of the past but I don't expect WOTC to print cards of that nature in the present.

Jace is just searching for Tamiyo so that she can save the day. BELIEVE!

 

[Yeef]

You could discard a card, then play a land, then play the Madness card

I don't know what the rules were like during Odyssey, since I wasn't playing then, but with the current madness rules, that's not the case. Exiling the card triggers the "pay the madness cost" ability. You can't play lands unless the stack is empty, which it won't be because of the triggered ability.

Yep, I think the last creature with a no-strings-attached discard ability was Oona's Prowler back in Lorwyn. I would expect a decent number of mana-plus-discard or tap-plus-discard abilities though.

These are the only "free" discarders since Lorwyn block.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see cycling over course of the next two block.

 

[Santiako]

Some real good bulk rares in that set

You know it baby

I got him on my first Odyssey pack 15 fucking years ago and could never get rid of him T_T (It's also super cool that Grim Lavamancer is in that card)

 

[charlequin]

These are the only "free" discarders since Lorwyn block.

Yeah I missed Prognostic Sphinx, although all the others have a restriction on what or when you can discard. I was so close!

 

[SigmasonicX]

Hm what are the actual repercussions of that, besides consolidating the text?

I don't believe there are any real repercussions. The "play a land" thing described earlier was already plugged up by previous rule changes.

The key is that madness originally gave you three options:
1. Discard normally
2. Discard into exile then cast
3. Discard into exile then put in graveyard

1 and 3 are effectively the same, and by removing 1, you get slightly simpler rules text.

 

[Yeef]

Reminder text isn't rules text though. I don't think the rules for Madness will be changed; the reminder text will just be clearer.

 

[Santiako]

Reminder text isn't rules text though. I don't think the rules for Madness will be changed; the reminder text will just be clearer.

Originally when you discarded a card with Madness it went into the "Madness zone" and you could play it at any time before you passed priority, so since playing a land does not require you to pass priority you could play a land and use it to pay for the madness cost. It was a pretty dumb interaction, but it came into play quite often to pay those Arrogant Wurm costs.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Reminder text isn't rules text though. I don't think the rules for Madness will be changed; the reminder text will just be clearer.

Uh, the reminder text never outright lies to you about how the ability works. It's very clearly a functional change which has no real rules implications beyond not being able to play a land in between discarding the card and deciding to cast it.

 

[The Technomancer]

Sounds a hell of a lot more interesting than cohort, support, and even surge.

BFZ was sort of a dull block when it came to keyword mechanics, even if OGW salvaged the environment overall. They're normally better about having interesting explicit mechanics

 

[Wulfric]

[–]Jo0wZ 56 points 7 hours ago
There are more in circulation if I'm to believe the dutch guy. His spanish "friend" had an entire box and gave him 1 booster as a gift. We might see more leaks in the future

Says the guy that bought the pack in that reddit thread.

Can you even imagine if a whole box gets spoiled soon?

Wizards going to need to do something quick to save face if a whole box is true lol

He's even looking at some clue thing in the booster art. Jace, Ace Detective confirmed.

disgonbgud.gif

WotC is lucky there wasn't a planeswalker in the booster. I think it's a tie up between Sorin and Nahiri, personally. On top of that, what we know so far doesn't exactly lead me to believe Liliana has a card in SOI.

And if there really is another checklist card, there better be a R/G legendary werewolf on it. From the looks of it, the checklist that was leaked is for the commons and uncommons.

 

[charlequin]

Re: the Sherlock Holmes thing, I forgot to say earlier that I liked that they put a Hound of the Baskervilles in this one.

BFZ was sort of a dull block when it came to keyword mechanics, even if OGW salvaged the environment overall. They're normally better about having interesting explicit mechanics

Yeah, they burned a lot of complexity on Devoid (which is complicated but doesn't do anything on its own) and then saved the rest for the colorless mana effects.

 

[The Technomancer]

Awaken was maybe the mechanic I most enjoyed and would like to see return, frankly. Some very interesting decision making

 

[charlequin]

On top of that, what we know so far doesn't exactly lead me to believe Liliana has a card in SOI.

They specifically said with Origins that it was introducing the cast of characters who would be central to all upcoming blocks, and that four of them would appear in BFZ block while Liliana would get her shot in what we now know as SOI. After Jace's SOI card, every Origins PW will have gotten a new card across these two blocks except Liliana. It's not 100%, but it's like in the 99% range.

 

[The Technomancer]

So five walkers. Jace and Liliana are a lock. I'd say its safe to say Tibalt is a lock also. Nahiri sounds red/white (or white/black, but WB is Sorin's realm). That would give us

U
B
RW
R/B?

I don't think Garruk is back, since he would probably still be G/B also and that's too much black. New mono-green or green/WU planeswalker?

 

[Yeef]

Uh, the reminder text never outright lies to you about how the ability works. It's very clearly a functional change which has no real rules implications beyond not being able to play a land in between discarding the card and deciding to cast it.

Again; you can't do that under the current rules. Exiling the card is a replacement effect; it's not something you can respond to. Exiling the card triggers the second ability, which can be responded to, but not by playing a land, because you can only play a land during your main phase while the stack is empty.

If they do change the rule, the only thing it'd effectively do is make processors marginally better, since being forced to exile the card means they can be processed in response to the triggered ability, much the same way a discard effect can stop a miracle before it's cast.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Tibalt's gonna be RB

 

[Ashodin]

So five walkers. Jace and Liliana are a lock. I'd say its safe to say Tibalt is a lock also. Nahiri sounds red/white (or white/black, but WB is Sorin's realm). That would give us

U
B
RW
R/B?

I don't think Garruk is back, since he would probably still be G/B also and that's too much black. New mono-green or green/WU planeswalker?

RG werewolf

 

[The Technomancer]

RG werewolf

Mono-black Tibalt then. I take back what I said about Nahiri, she's absolutely R/W or mono-R based on that burn spell

 

[Santiako]

RG werewolf

I feel like RG Werewolf fits a Legendary Creature better than a Planewalker.

 

[keeblerdrow]

I did some counting:

In the whole of all top 8's 75s, there are very few colored cards. There are 96 cards with a color identity in the entire top 8 with 44 of them being cast with phyrexian mana. That leaves 52 cards with color identity from regular-ass mana casting cost, 12 of which were Simian Spirit Guides. Of the 40 that would actually be cast, only 12 are in mainboards (8 Master of Etherium, 2 Thoughtcast, 2 Stubborn Denial).

There were only 21 lands in the top 8 that possessed basic land supertypes. Nine, if you don't count Urborg.

Colorless cards, phyrexian mana costs, and conditional lands seemed to rule the day.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I feel like RG Werewolf fits a Legendary Creature better than a Planewalker.

Flipwalker

 

[Angry Grimace]

Again; you can't do that under the current rules. Exiling the card is a replacement effect; it's not something you can respond to. Exiling the card triggers the second ability, which can be responded to, but not by playing a land, because you can only play a land during your main phase while the stack is empty.

If they do change the rule, the only thing it'd effectively do is make processors marginally better, since being forced to exile the card means they can be processed in response to the triggered ability, much the same way a discard effect can stop a miracle before it's cast.

The reminder text isn't going to lie about how it works, dude. The rule is clearly changed to make the madness trigger mandatory because it makes it cleaner.

 

[kirblar]

If there are two checklist cards in SoI, that means that the Rare/Mythic DFCs are mixed in with the normal ones like in Origins.

This especially makes sense if the "Echoes" are a real thing. As much fun as a Quad Rare pack would be... it'd be a wee bit silly.

 

[Wulfric]

They specifically said with Origins that it was introducing the cast of characters who would be central to all upcoming blocks, and that four of them would appear in BFZ block while Liliana would get her shot in what we now know as SOI. After Jace's SOI card, every Origins PW will have gotten a new card across these two blocks except Liliana. It's not 100%, but it's like in the 99% range.

Liliana hasn't been featured in Uncharted Realms, umm, Magic Story™ recently, has she? With two Origin walkers still needing a card, I just figured Jace might come first while they save Lili for Set 2. After all, they released an illustration of Jace instead of Liliana to announce the set. And with SOI being a large set, there's almost certainly going to be more than one planeswalker card anyways.

I feel like RG Werewolf fits a Legendary Creature better than a Planewalker.

As much as my inner furry would love a transforming Werewolf planeswalker, that idea seems a tad too complicated mechanically.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Some slight changes to adjust to a quicker format. More emphasis on Mox Opal and Thoughtseise, and turning the Infernal Tutor and 4th Needle into two Faithless Lootings. Also changed a couple lands into a Sea Gate Wreckage and Forest due to the high number of Ghost Quarters and an additional way to speed up the topdecks.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";194432384]It's not like Eldrazi is the worst matchup in the world for Affinity.[/QUOTE]

Death Shadow aggro, Zoo, Fish, infect basically any aggressive deck that isn't affinity

 

[SigmasonicX]

There needs to be a Scooby Doo card in SOI.

Fearful Hound - 2R
Creature - Hound
When Fearful Hound enters the battlefield, investigate.
Fearful Hound can't attack or block alone.
3/3

 

[Haly]

I hope they sneak the whole gang into cards.

Fred - White
Velma - Blue
Daphne - Red
Shaggy - Black
Scooby - Green

 

[Ashodin]

More Meddling Kids WWUU

Creature - Human Scout

When More Meddling Kids enters the battlefield, name a card for each Clue you control. The named cards can't be cast.

2/2

Every time I see Clue though I think of this Clue:

(Fake card)

 

["God's Beard!"]

So is Ivan Floch just the master or what? Dude's made 3 Pro Tour Top 8s in the last two rotations.

 

[pigeon]

There needs to be a Scooby Doo card in SOI.

Fearful Hound - 2R
Creature - Hound
When Fearful Hound enters the battlefield, investigate.
Fearful Hound can't attack or block alone.
3/3

Needs to be a flip werewolf.

 

[Yeef]

Fearsome Fiend BB
Creature - Horror
At the beginning of each end step, if an opponent controls four or more creatures with power 2 or less, transform Fearsome Fiend.
4/4
>>>
Culprit Unmasked
Creature - Human Rogue
2/1

 

[charlequin]

Liliana hasn't been featured in Uncharted Realms, umm, Magic Story™ recently, has she? With two Origin walkers still needing a card, I just figured Jace might come first while they save Lili for Set 2. After all, they released an illustration of Jace instead of Liliana to announce the set. And with SOI being a large set, there's almost certainly going to be more than one planeswalker card anyways.

Yes I agree she'll probably be in Fears.

 

[ironmang]

Played in the scg baltimore regionals today and lost in the last round to knock me out of cash. Kind of sucks that they set a hard cap at 350 then miraculously found a way to stuff 150 more people into that tiny room without increasing prizes at all. Still happy to finish 7-3 though and was satisfied with my play all day. My losses came to a variation of sweepers including living end, vandalblast out of jund, and koz return into souls betrayal twice against a different jund. Thinking on making a few changes like finding a place for a hangarback in the 75 to have another out to these sweepers and to help in grindy games in general.

Only played against eldrazi once, the sky spawner version, and completely crushed it. Did see it everywhere else though and friends were playing against it all day.